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Lb8535

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,622
If the computer isn't recognising the payments,but the system is number plate recognition - how come the barriers are raising to let them out of the car park? Our local number recognition car parks won't lift the barrier until your payment is made and linked to your registration plate.
That's a very good question. If they've doctored the programming they did it so that you wouldn't be able to complain until you were no longer near their lot and saw your bill. If it's computer error this is a really crap program.
 

brownmane

off kilter
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
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2,835
Location
Ontario, Canada
The comments made by the Police sound implausible to me. Banks are more and more involved in preventing fraud. Husband of recently deceased relative went into his bank to close their joint account. Just after getting home he had a call from the local Police fraud squad, they having been contacted by the bank to confirm what was going on.
I continue to despair at people who continue to pay out money to crooks after having been warned by banks that they are being scammed, only for them to whine to newspapers about their ordeal.
I am referring to our local police comments, not Police as a group. Sometimes our little area is slightly backwoods in its beliefs and actions. So ignorance and apathy do come into play.:worry:
The area I live in has fairly high rate of poverty - we are still quite rural despite being in southwestern Ontario - southern Ontario is most populated area in Canada (1/3 total population according to wiki)
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
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Location
York
A friend of mine is getting a letter of recognition from the local police for stopping a senior being scammed. She works in a bank and a senior came in to make a large withdrawal because "her grandson was in jail". My friend, upon questioning the person's reason for withdrawal, immediately called the police to report it and to prevent the scam from going forward.

The police told my friend that she is one of very few people who step in like this. So most banking employees don't question when they see this happening? I thought that bank employees get training on how to spot someone who is possibly a victim of a financial scam. Very disappointed in this apparent lack of sense of duty.
In our shop we have signs in the warehouse asking us to check people who buy large quantities of gift cards, especially if they seem older or vulnerable in any way. Scammers pretend to be various companies (like HMRC) and ask vulnerable people to 'pay overdue charges' in gift cards sent to an address they are given. I've only once had to challenge a lady who was buying a large number of cards, when I gently asked her if she was sure she was buying them for legitimate reasons. She looked quite shocked, had never heard of the scam, and was buying for a large number of family birthdays.

So, yes, although we aren't given training, we are made aware of some of the scams and how to spot victims. Although, of course, there's nothing stopping those victims from lying and buying and sending the cards anyway.
 

Tempest63

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
2,600
If the computer isn't recognising the payments,but the system is number plate recognition - how come the barriers are raising to let them out of the car park? Our local number recognition car parks won't lift the barrier until your payment is made and linked to your registration plate.
It is a pay and display so I don’t believe there are any barriers. The cameras record your numberplate on arrival and you enter the registration number into the machine which is then printed onto your ticket.
We very very rarely use that particular car park. We use a council run car park at the other end of the town.
When you arrive at that one you have to take your ticket from the machine before the barriers will raise to let you in. You then pay at a Pay Station with your ticket, put the ticket in the machine on the way out and the barriers go up to let you out.
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
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York
It is a pay and display so I don’t believe there are any barriers. The cameras record your numberplate on arrival and you enter the registration number into the machine which is then printed onto your ticket.
We very very rarely use that particular car park. We use a council run car park at the other end of the town.
When you arrive at that one you have to take your ticket from the machine before the barriers will raise to let you in. You then pay at a Pay Station with your ticket, put the ticket in the machine on the way out and the barriers go up to let you out.
I see. I was basing my view on our local parking machines which are mostly quite modern, the older pay and display car parks are much more low tech but don't rely on numberplates. I just wonder why the cameras need to record the numberplate if you need to enter it into the ticket machine and then display it. Entering it and displaying the ticket should be enough, without them needing to record it - it's just a system to stop people swapping tickets among vehicles (if you pay for two hours parking and only stay for half an hour, then pass your ticket on to someone else who only wants an hour's parking, which they don't like for reasons I'm not sure about, because someone has paid for the parking time, it shouldn't matter that it's spread over two or more cars, surely!)
 

Tempest63

Justified & Ancient
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Dec 19, 2009
Messages
2,600
I see. I was basing my view on our local parking machines which are mostly quite modern, the older pay and display car parks are much more low tech but don't rely on numberplates. I just wonder why the cameras need to record the numberplate if you need to enter it into the ticket machine and then display it. Entering it and displaying the ticket should be enough, without them needing to record it - it's just a system to stop people swapping tickets among vehicles (if you pay for two hours parking and only stay for half an hour, then pass your ticket on to someone else who only wants an hour's parking, which they don't like for reasons I'm not sure about, because someone has paid for the parking time, it shouldn't matter that it's spread over two or more cars, surely!)
I don’t believe tickets are transferable. If you pay for a couple of hours and only use half hour you are not supposed to give your ticket to someone else. But if you buy a ticket from the Braintree council run car parks you can use it in all of them until it expires. So in theory I can buy a ticket in Witham from a Braintree Council machine then use it again in a Braintree car park if I drove there.
 

PeteS

Seeking refuge
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Dec 5, 2016
Messages
2,819
I don’t believe tickets are transferable. If you pay for a couple of hours and only use half hour you are not supposed to give your ticket to someone else. But if you buy a ticket from the Braintree council run car parks you can use it in all of them until it expires. So in theory I can buy a ticket in Witham from a Braintree Council machine then use it again in a Braintree car park if I drove there.
I've given tickets with plenty of time left to other users in the past, especially where car park charges are really extortionate. The camera operated ones preclude this of course, as do the ones where you need a ticket to operate the exit barrier.
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
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Messages
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Location
York
I've given tickets with plenty of time left to other users in the past, especially where car park charges are really extortionate. The camera operated ones preclude this of course, as do the ones where you need a ticket to operate the exit barrier.
Which is why I think they brought them in, so that tickets can't be transferred between cars. Which is execrable really, The space has been paid for, it shouldn't matter if people are generous enough to pay for someone else's space. Oh, no, wait, it means that the car park can get more money without providing any additional services!

Like all those parking machines that charge you £1.47 per hour, 'No Change Given'.
 

Lb8535

Justified & Ancient
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Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,622
Which is why I think they brought them in, so that tickets can't be transferred between cars. Which is execrable really, The space has been paid for, it shouldn't matter if people are generous enough to pay for someone else's space. Oh, no, wait, it means that the car park can get more money without providing any additional services!

Like all those parking machines that charge you £1.47 per hour, 'No Change Given'.
And don't take pennies. Do you still have pence?
 

PeteS

Seeking refuge
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Dec 5, 2016
Messages
2,819
In our shop we have signs in the warehouse asking us to check people who buy large quantities of gift cards, especially if they seem older or vulnerable in any way. Scammers pretend to be various companies (like HMRC) and ask vulnerable people to 'pay overdue charges' in gift cards sent to an address they are given. I've only once had to challenge a lady who was buying a large number of cards, when I gently asked her if she was sure she was buying them for legitimate reasons. She looked quite shocked, had never heard of the scam, and was buying for a large number of family birthdays.

So, yes, although we aren't given training, we are made aware of some of the scams and how to spot victims. Although, of course, there's nothing stopping those victims from lying and buying and sending the cards anyway.
Gift cards seem to be a common theme used by scammers in India. I watch one of those You Tubers who like to tie these scammers up for hours on the phone and , on one, he tells the scammer he is cutting up the gift cards he has bought. The scammer went apoplectic. I nearly had a hernia laughing
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
38,933
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HM The Tower of London
Which is why I think they brought them in, so that tickets can't be transferred between cars. Which is execrable really, The space has been paid for, it shouldn't matter if people are generous enough to pay for someone else's space. Oh, no, wait, it means that the car park can get more money without providing any additional services!

Like all those parking machines that charge you £1.47 per hour, 'No Change Given'.
The car parking apps are good for this. I was recently invoiced 87p for an hour, baffling.
 

brownmane

off kilter
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
2,835
Location
Ontario, Canada
And don't take pennies. Do you still have pence?
Canada doesn't have pennies. We have "rounding" to the closest nickel if paying by cash. I still don't know when the amount is rounded up or rounded down. I think if price is $1.02, it becomes $1.00. If it's $1.03, price is $1.05. F'n stupid. They should have rounded up to closest $0.05 or down, not both. Stupid governments:slapd:
 

Lb8535

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,622
Canada doesn't have pennies. We have "rounding" to the closest nickel if paying by cash. I still don't know when the amount is rounded up or rounded down. I think if price is $1.02, it becomes $1.00. If it's $1.03, price is $1.05. F'n stupid. They should have rounded up to closest $0.05 or down, not both. Stupid governments:slapd:
A lot of people here round up anyway - won't take the pennies as change. I don't. It costs more than a penny to manufacture each US penny. Although Hillerman created a character who took as much change as he could and spread it all out each night on the dining room table looking for coins that were worth more than their face value to collectors - of which there are a reasonable number circulating. He made good pocket money doing this. I think he turned out to be the murderer.
 

brownmane

off kilter
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
2,835
Location
Ontario, Canada
A lot of people here round up anyway - won't take the pennies as change. I don't. It costs more than a penny to manufacture each US penny. Although Hillerman created a character who took as much change as he could and spread it all out each night on the dining room table looking for coins that were worth more than their face value to collectors - of which there are a reasonable number circulating. He made good pocket money doing this. I think he turned out to be the murderer.
No we don't have them as change, but often when I think I have given the correct change, I either have a nickel returned or I have to pay. If it was anything $1.01 to $1.05 is $1.05 (rounding up only), voila, I know what change I need. But the gov't makes us both round up and down.
 

Lb8535

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,622
No we don't have them as change, but often when I think I have given the correct change, I either have a nickel returned or I have to pay. If it was anything $1.01 to $1.05 is $1.05 (rounding up only), voila, I know what change I need. But the gov't makes us both round up and down.
You should have paid attention in second grade. I agree but big retailers would scream if it was always down. Since a lot of pricing is done through computers now anyway, I bet people are programming them to back into base prices that when added to local sales tax (you do have sales tax?) round to a 0 or a 5.
 

brownmane

off kilter
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
2,835
Location
Ontario, Canada
You should have paid attention in second grade. I agree but big retailers would scream if it was always down. Since a lot of pricing is done through computers now anyway, I bet people are programming them to back into base prices that when added to local sales tax (you do have sales tax?) round to a 0 or a 5.
Nope. Our provincial (Ontario) and federal sales taxes are 13% combined as HST. Don't even get me to explain when one tax is applied and not the other (such as books) or no tax if it is a food item. But any food item that has in anyway been valued added (such as single item, heated for immediate consumption) has GST (federal, but not provincial tax), but if you buy six or more of an item, like a donut, in a grocery store there is no tax:rofl:. Tax rules are hilarious, except that you have pay out for them.
 

Austin Popper

Emperor of Antarctica
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Aug 13, 2017
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Location
Colorado, where the gold is still elusive
Those pesky first-world problems!
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
11,532

'Blind' Italian scammer arrested after driving


An Italian man who received government welfare for years due to blindness was arrested Wednesday on suspicion of fraud after being seen driving, window shopping and riding a scooter, news reports said.

iu


The man in Palermo, Sicily, received at least 170,000 euros ($191,000) in benefits since 2008 after attesting that he was "totally blind" as a result of a congenital problem, local media reported.

Italy's financial police were alerted after the man renewed his driver's license in 2018 despite his earlier declaration, media said.

During stake-outs, authorities witnessed the man driving -- while dialling on his phone at the same time -- looking at shop windows while walking through a busy mall and teaching his daughter to ride a bike.

The 40-year-old was also seen riding a scooter without insurance, Palermo Today reported, adding that the man was nicknamed "Berlusconi," after Italy's former prime minister with a history of legal problems.

The man was already known to authorities, having received a jail sentence of nearly 15 years in the first instance last year for being part of a group that staged fake traffic accidents to receive insurance payouts.
The case is under appeal.

Despite being the owner of a garage, the man also received Italy's so-called "basic income," or monthly welfare payment given to the country's poorest citizens.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211215-blind-italian-scammer-arrested-after-driving

maximus otter
 
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catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
5,996
Location
York

'Blind' Italian scammer arrested after driving


An Italian man who received government welfare for years due to blindness was arrested Wednesday on suspicion of fraud after being seen driving, window shopping and riding a scooter, news reports said.

iu


The man in Palermo, Sicily, received at least 170,000 euros ($191,000) in benefits since 2008 after attesting that he was "totally blind" as a result of a congenital problem, local media reported.
Italy's financial police were alerted after the man renewed his driver's license in 2018 despite his earlier declaration, media said.

During stake-outs, authorities witnessed the man driving -- while dialling on his phone at the same time -- looking at shop windows while walking through a busy mall and teaching his daughter to ride a bike.

The 40-year-old was also seen riding a scooter without insurance, Palermo Today reported, adding that the man was nicknamed "Berlusconi," after Italy's former prime minister with a history of legal problems.

The man was already known to authorities, having received a jail sentence of nearly 15 years in the first instance last year for being part of a group that staged fake traffic accidents to receive insurance payouts.
The case is under appeal.

Despite being the owner of a garage, the man also received Italy's so-called "basic income," or monthly welfare payment given to the country's poorest citizens.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211215-blind-italian-scammer-arrested-after-driving

maximus otter
'Under Appeal'?

Unless he's going to plead a sudden miracle, that's going to be interesting! Why didn't he just do the sensible (!) thing and plead partial sight or 'blindness that comes and goes' if he was going to be quite so blatent about things!
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
11,532
'Under Appeal'?

Unless he's going to plead a sudden miracle, that's going to be interesting! Why didn't he just do the sensible (!) thing and plead partial sight or 'blindness that comes and goes' if he was going to be quite so blatent about things!

I seem to remember that there is/was an entire village in Italy where every single resident claimed to be blind, in order to receive Italy's poorly-policed welfare payouts.

Haven't they heard of agoraphobia or "bad backs"?

;)

maximus otter
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,671
I see. I was basing my view on our local parking machines which are mostly quite modern, the older pay and display car parks are much more low tech but don't rely on numberplates. I just wonder why the cameras need to record the numberplate if you need to enter it into the ticket machine and then display it. Entering it and displaying the ticket should be enough, without them needing to record it - it's just a system to stop people swapping tickets among vehicles (if you pay for two hours parking and only stay for half an hour, then pass your ticket on to someone else who only wants an hour's parking, which they don't like for reasons I'm not sure about, because someone has paid for the parking time, it shouldn't matter that it's spread over two or more cars, surely!)
Years ago I often gave my ticket to someone else if there was enough time left on it for them-which there usually was. As far as I'm concerned I've paid for that space, so what does/did it matter who was parked there?
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
5,996
Location
York
Years ago I often gave my ticket to someone else if there was enough time left on it for them-which there usually was. As far as I'm concerned I've paid for that space, so what does/did it matter who was parked there?
That's precisely my opinion too. As long as SOMEONE has paid for the time, why should who paid, matter?

Except that, this way, they can get double the money from the spaces.
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
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Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,671
That's precisely my opinion too. As long as SOMEONE has paid for the time, why should who paid, matter?

Except that, this way, they can get double the money from the spaces.
Yes, greed as usual.
 

PeteS

Seeking refuge
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
2,819
Yes, greed as usual.
Similarly, a motorist was "fined" by one of these car parking companies for outstaying his allotted time. It went to the High Court, his argument being that the company had not suffered any loss, since the car park had numerous empty spaces at the time. The motorist lost, the judge reasoning amongst other things that the car parking company was entitled to a profit from these contracts. English law seems to have long moved on from the compensation according to your loss type approach. Opens the gates to private companies and "fines".
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
5,996
Location
York
Similarly, a motorist was "fined" by one of these car parking companies for outstaying his allotted time. It went to the High Court, his argument being that the company had not suffered any loss, since the car park had numerous empty spaces at the time. The motorist lost, the judge reasoning amongst other things that the car parking company was entitled to a profit from these contracts. English law seems to have long moved on from the compensation according to your loss type approach. Opens the gates to private companies and "fines".
I've just received a fine from The Range, for overstaying my allocated 3 hour parking time by 40 minutes.

Okay, that's fair enough, I was there, with a friend, for three hours and forty minutes. BUT we have to drive for over an hour to our nearest Range, spent collectively well over three hundred and fifty pounds in the shop, had lunch there, and a jolly good day out. I paid up the fine, couldn't be bothered to try to argue our case, besides which it's the car park that give the fine, not The Range themselves, so how much I spent in the shop wouldn't bother them. But I am massively annoyed that, what could have been a lovely day out, now has to be curtailed into dashing about to fit everything into the time that the car parking people think you will need to do what you do. Counterproductive to the shop, really.

Plus apparently according to the fine letter there is 'adequate signage' informing you that three hours is the maximum time allowed. Neither I, nor my friend saw any such signs (but we were yakking like good 'uns so could well have missed it).
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
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Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,671
I've just received a fine from The Range, for overstaying my allocated 3 hour parking time by 40 minutes.

Okay, that's fair enough, I was there, with a friend, for three hours and forty minutes. BUT we have to drive for over an hour to our nearest Range, spent collectively well over three hundred and fifty pounds in the shop, had lunch there, and a jolly good day out. I paid up the fine, couldn't be bothered to try to argue our case, besides which it's the car park that give the fine, not The Range themselves, so how much I spent in the shop wouldn't bother them. But I am massively annoyed that, what could have been a lovely day out, now has to be curtailed into dashing about to fit everything into the time that the car parking people think you will need to do what you do. Counterproductive to the shop, really.

Plus apparently according to the fine letter there is 'adequate signage' informing you that three hours is the maximum time allowed. Neither I, nor my friend saw any such signs (but we were yakking like good 'uns so could well have missed it).
I've never stayed over the time limit, but on a couple of occasions I've gone back to soon, ie ''no return within two hours''. One time I realised as soon as I drove into the carpark- I didn't stop, drove straight back out and parked in a small layby where you can stay for half an hour. I thought I'd better check, so went into the store and found the manager. He told me that even though I didn't stop I'd still be fined £88. He took the reg, put me down as a 'guest' and I never got the fine. That's happened three times in three different places.
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
5,996
Location
York
I've never stayed over the time limit, but on a couple of occasions I've gone back to soon, ie ''no return within two hours''. One time I realised as soon as I drove into the carpark- I didn't stop, drove straight back out and parked in a small layby where you can stay for half an hour. I thought I'd better check, so went into the store and found the manager. He told me that even though I didn't stop I'd still be fined £88. He took the reg, put me down as a 'guest' and I never got the fine. That's happened three times in three different places.
I think what narks me most is that, because we live in such a rural area, visits to town are few and far between, and tend to involve doing everything that you've saved up for the preceeding six months. We only go to the Range twice a year.
 

Herr Cloaca

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
Dec 26, 2020
Messages
465
I've just received a fine from The Range, for overstaying my allocated 3 hour parking time by 40 minutes.

Okay, that's fair enough, I was there, with a friend, for three hours and forty minutes. BUT we have to drive for over an hour to our nearest Range, spent collectively well over three hundred and fifty pounds in the shop, had lunch there, and a jolly good day out. I paid up the fine, couldn't be bothered to try to argue our case, besides which it's the car park that give the fine, not The Range themselves, so how much I spent in the shop wouldn't bother them. But I am massively annoyed that, what could have been a lovely day out, now has to be curtailed into dashing about to fit everything into the time that the car parking people think you will need to do what you do. Counterproductive to the shop, really.

Plus apparently according to the fine letter there is 'adequate signage' informing you that three hours is the maximum time allowed. Neither I, nor my friend saw any such signs (but we were yakking like good 'uns so could well have missed it).
People, please. Read and learn:
Fight unfair private parking tickets
Tickets are often invalid. Don't automatically pay
 
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