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Ghosts From Modern Tragedies

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A hysterically crying young woman was seen several times at the top of the escalators in the 'Khyber Pass' ticket hall at Kings Cross St Pancras London Underground station after the 1987 fire disaster that killed 31 people. The whole concourse was remodelled between 2006 and 2010 but I haven't seen any information online indicating whether or not she has been spotted since then.
 
Carse said:
A hysterically crying young woman was seen several times at the top of the escalators in the 'Khyber Pass' ticket hall at Kings Cross St Pancras London Underground station after the 1987 fire disaster that killed 31 people. The whole concourse was remodelled between 2006 and 2010 but I haven't seen any information online indicating whether or not she has been spotted since then.
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You’d think something like that would leave a mark one way or another.
 
Carse said:
A hysterically crying young woman was seen several times at the top of the escalators in the 'Khyber Pass' ticket hall at Kings Cross St Pancras London Underground station after the 1987 fire disaster that killed 31 people. The whole concourse was remodelled between 2006 and 2010 but I haven't seen any information online indicating whether or not she has been spotted since then.
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In one of those coincidences that now never actually amazes me at all, while spending far too long yesterday flicking through back copy's of FT in response to the challenge presented by the thread, Looking For A Photo Of An Uncanny Old Man Seen In Fortean Times, I came across the following story - which I thought I should put up on the Underground ghosts thread, but which now seems relevant here as well:

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From FT 176 - November 2003
 
9/11 ghost?

"Jacie's father had recently died in the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center. O'Brien said she tried to gently probe Jacie, who revealed that her daddy had been telling her "knock, knock" jokes. Jacie also could recite the names of her father's co-workers, who had all died in the attack -- many of whom her mother said she had never met"

https://abcnews.go.com/2020/911-widows-deceased-relatives-communicate-grave/story?id=10891128

And a claimed reincarnation:

 
Paul_Exeter said:
9/11 ghost?

"Jacie's father had recently died in the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center. O'Brien said she tried to gently probe Jacie, who revealed that her daddy had been telling her "knock, knock" jokes. Jacie also could recite the names of her father's co-workers, who had all died in the attack -- many of whom her mother said she had never met"

https://abcnews.go.com/2020/911-widows-deceased-relatives-communicate-grave/story?id=10891128

And a claimed reincarnation:

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Interesting with the past life. But there’s a reason past lives aren’t often remembered, it’s because we need to get on with the present one. This poor kid seems to have kept the memories longer than most do.
 
It's an interesting question, that goes along with ghosts in modern clothes' thread

I do wonder if some ghosts are spirts that don't know they are dead and some just keep reliving their last moments
 
Robbrent said:
It's an interesting question, that goes along with ghosts in modern clothes' thread

I do wonder if some ghosts are spirts that don't know they are dead and some just keep reliving their last moments
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I remember reading The Strangers by Matthew Manning (I think - it was a long time ago), where the author described talking to a ghost or spirit in a room where someone had committed suicide, with a shotgun as I recall it. While I am not particularly impressed by the claims of self-proclaimed psychics and sensitives, I found Manning's accounts in The Strangers interesting. He claimed that the ghost/spirit was just reliving what he used to do (I have the feeling the man had been a recluse alcoholic), and had no memory of having committed suicide.
 
What about the crash, reported in t'Mag, where drivers passing the spot kept seeing it being replayed?
The police eventually investigated the area and found the car in the ditch with the driver dead inside.
 
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escargot said:
What about the crash, reported in t'Mag, where drivers passing the spot kept seeing it being replayed?
The police eventually investigated the area and found the car in with the driver dead inside.
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Impressive case this one and we have discussed it on here. There is one cloud hanging over it, however, as a Police source later claimed only one call was received and this opened up the possibility the call was a 'cloaked' confession of involvement - can anyone fin the thread?
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Impressive case this one and we have discussed it on here. There is one cloud hanging over it, however, as a Police source later claimed only one call was received and this opened up the possibility the call was a 'cloaked' confession of involvement - can anyone fin the thread?
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I remember where it happened - on the A3 near Burpham, outside Guildford, Surrey - my neck of the woods.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
9/11 ghost?...

And a claimed reincarnation:

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Interesting story. Though there is some discrepancy in the telling. At one point, it is relayed that the boy remembers being in a building and then something hitting it and explosions, later they talk about his fear of planes because a plane hit the towers.

I would believe that someone involved in the 9/11 disaster might have memories of something hitting the building. I don't believe that anyone who didn't survive would know it was a plane. There was no forewarning. Very few people may have been looking out the windows at time of impact, but no one would be looking out to see a plane. It's more likely that they would not have known what the impact was caused by.

I do think that the parents dwelling on the past life are not helping their son, but possibly feeding his fears with their own.
 
brownmane said:
Interesting story. Though there is some discrepancy in the telling. At one point, it is relayed that the boy remembers being in a building and then something hitting it and explosions, later they talk about his fear of planes because a plane hit the towers.

I would believe that someone involved in the 9/11 disaster might have memories of something hitting the building. I don't believe that anyone who didn't survive would know it was a plane. There was no forewarning. Very few people may have been looking out the windows at time of impact, but no one would be looking out to see a plane. It's more likely that they would not have known what the impact was caused by.

I do think that the parents dwelling on the past life are not helping their son, but possibly feeding his fears with their own.
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Can they prove he wasn't left in front of the tv when one of the great number of 9/11 documentaries was on? Because it just sounds like he got all his information from a tv programme watched by a toddler, perhaps there was a wider family member with a minor obsession with this disaster who talked about it and showed him footage and/or images? For example, my Gran used to talk about WW2 with me when I was was a toddler for no other reason than she had lived through it, it had taken there life of my grandfather and back then it was only three decades ago.

Notice as well that his drawing of the plane has a propeller on the front, exactly how a young child imagines a plane looks, however a reincarnated adult would know it was a passenger jet.
 
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Paul_Exeter said:
Can they prove he wasn't left in front of the tv when one of the great number of 9/11 documentaries was on? Because it just sounds like he got all his information from a tv programme watched by a toddler, perhaps there was a wider family member with a minor obsession with this disaster who talked about it and showed him footage and/or images?
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I totally thought this about his "recollections". Parents stated that he wasn't in school or anything when he started talking about this.

However, it seems that he started talking about it around the age of 4. I wonder when? There were many anniversary commemorations, especially in the years immediately following 9/11.

His apparent obsessions also, when described without the story, do sound like indicators of autism. - social difficulties with peers, using more adult language, several seemingly irrational fears (planes, tall buildings, death), seemingly specific interests. I do say "seemingly" because I question how much is his interests vs parents' obsession.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Can they prove he wasn't left in front of the tv when one of the great number of 9/11 documentaries was on? Because it just sounds like he got all his information from a tv programme watched by a toddler
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Very possible. As a very young child, certainly well pre-school age, I used to tell the neighbour to stop hanging out the washing because rain was coming. I was always right. She started consulting me about it!

Can remember hearing the radio weather forecast when I was tiny. That's where I got it from.

Little kids can take in a lot that we don't notice them listening to.
 
MorningAngel said:
There was a good one in one of the Credible Witness books where they were chasing a car it crashed and they saw a crim they knew running away from the car only to discover he died in the crash.
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And, of course, in cases like this there's always the chance that there was actually someone else in the car at the time, who runs away and it's a misidentification due to the stress. It's easy to say 'it was definitely him!' but when you're expecting to see a particular person, then maybe that's who you actually see?
 
catseye said:
And, of course, in cases like this there's always the chance that there was actually someone else in the car at the time, who runs away and it's a misidentification due to the stress. It's easy to say 'it was definitely him!' but when you're expecting to see a particular person, then maybe that's who you actually see?
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A fair point but from the description of the car was the roof had caved in:

"It seemed to be in slow motion as it flipped over and would have continued rolling, except that the roof smashed into a lamppost stopping the car dead, flattening the roof. The lamppost, damaged by the force of the impact, fell over landing directly on the car"

Gilbert, Andy. Credible Witness: Paranormal Police Stories (p. 23). UNKNOWN. Kindle Edition.

The fire brigade had to cut the roof off before they could even see inside the crushed vehicle and find the deceased individual. It doesn't sound to me the sort of accident you would run away from.
 
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catseye said:
And, of course, in cases like this there's always the chance that there was actually someone else in the car at the time, who runs away and it's a misidentification due to the stress. It's easy to say 'it was definitely him!' but when you're expecting to see a particular person, then maybe that's who you actually see?
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Somewhat deflatingly, since reading Credible Witness (which I really like), I've read at least two other versions of this story from US law enforcement sources. Which suggests:

  • It's a law enforcement UL - a kind of copper-centric phantom hitchhiker legend.
  • Dead people's spirits regularly do up and scoot from their corporeal shell immediately its been made redundant by a windscreen - before realising that they don't have to run, because they are dead...and a ghost.
  • There was someone else in the car - and they were on their toes before the coppers had a chance to unclip their seatbelts.

Disappointingly, I think the latter is the most likely.
 
Spookdaddy said:
Somewhat deflatingly, since reading Credible Witness (which I really like), I've read at least two other versions of this story from US law enforcement sources. Which suggests:

  • It's a law enforcement UL - a kind of copper-centric phantom hitchhiker legend.
  • Dead people's spirits regularly do up and scoot from their corporeal shell immediately its been made redundant by a windscreen - before realising that they don't have to run, because they are dead...and a ghost.
  • There was someone else in the car - and they were on their toes before the coppers had a chance to unclip their seatbelts.

Disappointingly, I think the latter is the most likely.
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Not sure I understand your post, this happened in the UK and was told first-hand to the author by a police colleague. To the best of my knowledge it has never appeared in print form anywhere other than the 'Credible Witness' book.

The car was travelling at high speed, clipped a curb, flipped over as it became airborne and then smashed roof first into a lamp post. The interior of the car was completely crushed by the force of the impact and had to be cut away by the fire brigade before they could even see inside the interior. The G-force alone would have caused significant injury, never mind how you get out of a car when the roof has just caved in.

Of course the officer concerned could have invented the whole experience, but then if we take that approach then we may as well shut down this forum as witness testimony is pretty much all we have in most instances. Also, there is the road crash and deceased person walking past that kid in the 'Sixth Sense" which might explain where the US myth originated...?

Sorry if this sounds defensive but I don't feel we should dismiss this case because of some UL in the States.
 
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Paul_Exeter said:
Not sure I understand your post, this happened in the UK and was told first-hand to the author by a police colleague. To the best of my knowledge it has never appeared in print form anywhere other than the 'Credible Witness' book.

The car was travelling at high speed, clipped a curb, flipped over as it became airborne and then smashed roof first into a lamp post. The interior of the car was completely crushed by the force of the impact and had to be cut away by the fire brigade before they could even see inside the interior. The G-force alone would have caused significant injury, never mind how you get out of a car when the roof has just caved in.

Of course the officer concerned could have invented the whole experience, but then if we take that approach then we may as well shut down this forum as witness testimony is pretty much all we have in most instances. Also, there is the road crash and deceased person walking past that kid in the 'Sixth Sense" which might explain where the US myth originated...?
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On reflection, my wording was probably misleading. When I said 'versions of this story', I didn't mean to imply the precise events of this specific tale - I meant the general motif. For instance, the very first story in Loren W. Christensen's Cops' True Stories Of The Paranormal - which is US based, follows a very similar narrative (the chapter is called Vanished, and the author/witness of the particular story is named as a Kerry L Wood).

...Of course the officer concerned could have invented the whole experience, but then if we take that approach then we may as well shut down this forum as witness testimony is pretty much all we have in most instances.
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And without some sort of scrutiny - we might as well be Reddit. In which case - it's all demons

I like Gilbert's books very much, and was possibly the first person on this board to recommend him. I have no doubt about Gilbert's honesty, but we have absolutely no way of knowing how honest his interviewees are.

That said, I find most of the tales in Gilbert's books pretty convincing - and am sure that most of his interviewees had something happen to them (or genuinely believed they had) - but when remarkable stories which follow the same narrative pattern very closely appear in disparate places, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to at least consider the possibility of a UL floating around in the mix. (And - I should point out - consider was actually all I did.)

...Sorry if this sounds defensive but I don't feel we should dismiss this case because of some UL in the States.
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In terms of Urban Legends I don't really buy into the idea that a US example and a UK example cannot be connected because of national boundaries. Some ULs are very localised, but many are virtually universal. I also have no doubt that ULs connected to specific job types can be connected to each other across geographical boundaries.

I'm definitely not a hardened sceptic when it comes to ghosts (or whatever the phenomena I'm pretty sure we lump together as 'ghosts' may be). However, I do reserve the right not to simply accept everything at face value, just because the subject is one I'm broadly sympathetic to.
 
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Spookdaddy said:
On reflection, my wording was probably misleading. When I said 'versions of this story', I didn't mean to imply the precise events of this specific tale - I meant the general motif. For instance, the very first story in Loren W. Christensen's Cops' True Stories Of The Paranormal - which is US based, follows a very similar narrative (the chapter is called Vanished, and the author/witness of the particular story is named as a Kerry L Wood).



And without some sort of scrutiny - we might as well be Reddit. In which case - it's all demons

I like Gilbert's books very much, and was possibly the first person on this board to recommend him. I have no doubt about Gilbert's honesty, but we have absolutely no way of knowing how honest his interviewees are.

That said, I find most of the tales in Gilbert's books pretty convincing - and am sure that most of his interviewees had something happen to them (or genuinely believed they had) - but when remarkable stories which follow the same narrative pattern very closely appear in disparate places, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to at least consider the possibility of a UL floating around in the mix. (And - I should point out - consider was actually all I did.)



In terms of Urban Legends I don't really buy into the idea that a US example and a UK example cannot be connected because of national boundaries. Some ULs are very localised, but many are virtually universal. I also have no doubt that ULs connected to specific job types can be connected to each other across geographical boundaries.

I'm definitely not a hardened sceptic when it comes to ghosts (or whatever the phenomena I'm pretty sure we lump together as 'ghosts' may be). However, I do reserve the right not to simply accept everything at face value, just because the subject is one I'm broadly sympathetic to.
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Fair assessment.

I have read this account again and there is a discrepancy: he states the person/ghost emerged from the passenger door and not the driver's door. Yet there only seems to be one occupant who is presumably in the driver's seat. So why would the ghost exit from the wrong side? So a rational explanation was that driver had a brother or nephew sat in the passenger seat who looked a lot like him and who thanks to a fluke of fate was able to escape. Another possibility is that the person running past had never been in the car but rather close by and had nefarious reasons for not wanting to have to give his details to the police.

However the witness is certain of his identification and the extent of the impact preceding any survivors. Without more details such as the location, the exact month and year and name of the deceased then it is unfortunately pretty much a dead end.
 
Spookdaddy said:
On reflection, my wording was probably misleading. When I said 'versions of this story', I didn't mean to imply the precise events of this specific tale - I meant the general motif. For instance, the very first story in Loren W. Christensen's Cops' True Stories Of The Paranormal - which is US based, follows a very similar narrative (the chapter is called Vanished, and the author/witness of the particular story is named as a Kerry L Wood).



And without some sort of scrutiny - we might as well be Reddit. In which case - it's all demons

I like Gilbert's books very much, and was possibly the first person on this board to recommend him. I have no doubt about Gilbert's honesty, but we have absolutely no way of knowing how honest his interviewees are.

That said, I find most of the tales in Gilbert's books pretty convincing - and am sure that most of his interviewees had something happen to them (or genuinely believed they had) - but when remarkable stories which follow the same narrative pattern very closely appear in disparate places, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to at least consider the possibility of a UL floating around in the mix. (And - I should point out - consider was actually all I did.)



In terms of Urban Legends I don't really buy into the idea that a US example and a UK example cannot be connected because of national boundaries. Some ULs are very localised, but many are virtually universal. I also have no doubt that ULs connected to specific job types can be connected to each other across geographical boundaries.

I'm definitely not a hardened sceptic when it comes to ghosts (or whatever the phenomena I'm pretty sure we lump together as 'ghosts' may be). However, I do reserve the right not to simply accept everything at face value, just because the subject is one I'm broadly sympathetic to.
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Also worth bearing in mind is that just because a UL exists, doesn't mean that events matching the UL do not occur. I think particularly of phantom hitch-hikers/phantom pedestrian impacts, where well established ULs exist, yet some of the witness accounts are very compelling.
 
SimonBurchell said:
Also worth bearing in mind is that just because a UL exists, doesn't mean that events matching the UL do not occur. I think particularly of phantom hitch-hikers/phantom pedestrian impacts, where well established ULs exist, yet some of the witness accounts are very compelling.
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Absolutely. I was going to mention this, but didn't want to bloat my initial response.

The narrative of actual events can, in the right circumstances, give birth to a UL - or reflect elements of an extant UL.

The fine line to negotiate is based on the fact that once a UL is established - even if based on real events (or with the potential to be real) - it can then independently inspire the narrative in an unreal way.

I think that makes sense.
 
Spookdaddy said:
  • Dead people's spirits regularly do up and scoot from their corporeal shell immediately its been made redundant by a windscreen - before realising that they don't have to run, because they are dead...and a ghost.
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It could be that they're walking around like regular people. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're dead.
 
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