Graveyards / Cemeteries

Tribble

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A family made a remarkable discovery while carrying out building works on their house in Carmona, a town near Seville in Andalusia.
When they knocked down a wall in the corner of the patio of their townhouse they were astonished to find a small arched opening leading underground to a funerary chamber dating from the first century AD.
Within the chamber they discovered eight niches, with six of them occupied by funerary urns or chests containing what is thought to be human remains dating back more than 2,000 years.
An archaeological team dispatched by the town council to examine the site described it as “perfectly preserved” and said it was the most important discovery made in the area for decades.


https://www.thelocal.com/20190830/f...an-tomb-hidden-beneath-home-in-southern-spain
 

Spookdaddy

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Came across this rather lovely memorial in Edinburgh's Dean Cemetery last year:

20200113_121929.jpg


Dean Cemetery is a beautiful place, and well worth adding to the itinerary for anyone visiting that beautiful city. I've mentioned it before, in regards to the awesome - and slightly spooky - Leishman memorial. (What Would You Like Carved on Your Tombstone? #42. Coincidences #1312).

When I have time off in London I go for long walks, and the churchyard of St Bride's is a favourite resting point. The churchyard itself is pretty tiny, and not of any particular note - but I've always found it a very restful spot, despite (or maybe because of) its being so hemmed in. Must have been a different place entirely when Fleet Street was in its heyday.

IMG_6313resize.jpg


Technically speaking I was just outside the churchyard when I took the above - behind the buildings on the Fleet Street side.
 

Bad Bungle

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The graveyard in my former Village is bisected by a path - the south section (where my parents are) has fewer and newer graves, whilst the north sector has nobility (relatives of the Dukes of Bedford that didn't make it into the private chapel) and is much wilder. Or at least it was wild until the nettles and undergrowth on the left hand side was hacked back last week to reveal stones I had never seen before (55 years). Not the prettiest graveyard maybe but a nice setting against the back of the Manor House.

Graveyard_0087.JPG Graveyard_0088.JPG
 

RaM

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This is the grave of Meg Shelton, my gloves to add scale,
She was supposedly buried vertically and upside down so
if she tried to dig herself out she would only be buried deeper.
People still visit and leave little gifts.




DSCF5876.JPG


DSCF5874.JPG
 

Bad Bungle

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Bad Bungle

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Peter the Wild Boy grave gets Grade II listing

A stone marking the Hertfordshire resting place of a feral German child, invited to England by George I, has been Grade II listed.
The headstone inscribed "Peter the Wild Boy", stands in the graveyard of St Mary's in Northchurch.

English Heritage said the boy was found in a Hanover forest in 1724, unable to speak and walking on all fours.
It said he was brought to the English royal family's court as a "curiosity" two years later.
He eventually became a farm labourer in Hertfordshire, where he died in 1785, aged about 72.
Peter was buried at the government's expense but his gravestone is said to have been paid for by local people, and flowers are regularly laid on it to this day.

The stone's Grade II listing by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport, means its "special interest" must be taken into account if changes to its appearance or location are proposed.

English Heritage, who advised the on the listing, said Peter "appeared to be in his early teens" when he was found in Hertswold forest, apparently abandoned.
Following a visit by George I, who was also Elector of Hanover, he was invited to England where he lived, as a curiosity in the King's court where "his strange appearance and erratic behaviour caused a sensation".

Peter, so named because it was initially the only word he would respond to, became the subject of satires by Jonathan Swift and Daniel Defoe as his fame spread, and a wax figure of him was exhibited in the Strand.

When his "novelty waned", Peter was entrusted to the care of James Fenn, a yeoman farmer at Axters End, who was given a generous allowance by the Crown.

English Heritage said results of recent analysis of Peter's portrait by a professor of genetics, now suggested he had Pitt-Hopkins syndrome, a chromosomal disorder first identified in 1978.
It said its most distinctive effect is apparent in his curvy Cupid's bow mouth, and the condition would also have affected his mental development.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-be ... s-21517995
I only realised last week that the grave of Peter the Wild Boy (d 1785) was two miles from my brother's house, so off we went in the rain today. As outlined by Rynner, Peter was found naked, wild and on all fours in a forest near Hannover and brought over to England in 1726 by George I as a curiosity for his daughter-in-law, Caroline of Ansbach (Princess of Wales). All attempts to teach him to speak, read and write failed (it was suspected in 2011 that he was suffering from Pitt-Hopkins syndrome). After the initial frenzy of interest in London and the Royal Court died down, Peter was largely forgotten about. He was eventually sent to the care of a farmer in Northchurch, Herts and settled there, except for the occasions when he'd run off. Retrieved from a gaol in Norwich in 1751 a collar and tag was made for him offering a reward for a safe return. Apparently the collar is kept at Berkhamsted School and Peter himself is buried at St Mary's Churchyard (with fresh flowers).

Peter_0099.jpg
 

ramonmercado

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Quite a tourist attraction, people really dig it.

It’s a development that its most famous occupant might have predicted, even if it would have him spinning in his well-visited grave.

North London’s Highgate cemetery, final resting place of Karl Marx, is to undergo a makeover to enhance its visitor experience. In addition to a spot of landscaping, it will have an exhibition space, a separate gift shop and possibly a cafe.

Home to the remains of 170,000 people, Highgate, which opened in 1839, is the latest cemetery seeking to capitalise on the public’s growing interest in death. Brompton cemetery in south London has recently been given a makeover which saw buildings restored and a lodge turned into a visitor centre with the help of a £4.5m grant from the National Lottery Community Fund.

And Brookwood cemetery in Surrey, which has been operating since 1854 when London’s cemeteries became overcrowded following a cholera epidemic, is now opening a museum of death.

“People used to think that visiting cemeteries was a bit weird, a bit ghoulish, a bit morbid,” said Dr Ian Dungavell, head of the Friends of Highgate Cemetery Trust which maintains the cemetery with no public funding. “Now they are realising that cemeteries are part of our historic cultural environment.” ...

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...shop-as-highgate-cemetery-woos-death-tourists
 

Naughty_Felid

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Quite a tourist attraction, people really dig it.

It’s a development that its most famous occupant might have predicted, even if it would have him spinning in his well-visited grave.

North London’s Highgate cemetery, final resting place of Karl Marx, is to undergo a makeover to enhance its visitor experience. In addition to a spot of landscaping, it will have an exhibition space, a separate gift shop and possibly a cafe.

Home to the remains of 170,000 people, Highgate, which opened in 1839, is the latest cemetery seeking to capitalise on the public’s growing interest in death. Brompton cemetery in south London has recently been given a makeover which saw buildings restored and a lodge turned into a visitor centre with the help of a £4.5m grant from the National Lottery Community Fund.

And Brookwood cemetery in Surrey, which has been operating since 1854 when London’s cemeteries became overcrowded following a cholera epidemic, is now opening a museum of death.

“People used to think that visiting cemeteries was a bit weird, a bit ghoulish, a bit morbid,” said Dr Ian Dungavell, head of the Friends of Highgate Cemetery Trust which maintains the cemetery with no public funding. “Now they are realising that cemeteries are part of our historic cultural environment.” ...

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...shop-as-highgate-cemetery-woos-death-tourists
Why don't they just leave it alone? Part of the charm and pull for people with old graveyards and cemeteries is the sense of decay and loss.

When you look at those amazing stones and monuments it's powerful. The expense and work that must have gone into them, only to see them decay as the people that ordered them died and then in turn their children died until all those people are forgotten.

It's not all about Marx or about Jim Morrison or Lady Diana. The most interesting gravestones and monuments are those that are now unknown because we like to speculate and think about who they were.
 
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Bad Bungle

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It's not all about Marx or about Jim Morrison or Lady Diana. The most interesting gravestones and monuments are those that are now unknown because we like to speculate and think about who they were.
I love wandering through old graveyards and (respectfully) examining neglected headstones. The great shame is that the inscription on many (if not most) of the markers made of sandstone have worn off within the last century, so the occupants are truly anonymous. Headstones should be made of granite with deep chiselled inscriptions and ideally include the phrase "died tragically".
 

escargot

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I love wandering through old graveyards and (respectfully) examining neglected headstones. The great shame is that the inscription on many (if not most) of the markers made of sandstone have worn off within the last century, so the occupants are truly anonymous. Headstones should be made of granite with deep chiselled inscriptions and ideally include the phrase "died tragically".
I dunno, I like to see totally neglected graves, especially of babies. One way or another some terrible grief is over.
 

escargot

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The Oise-Aisne American Cemetery in France contains the Dishonored Dead, WWII US Army soldiers convicted and executed for various crimes. The plots are numbered markers set in the grass. The ultimate cold shoulder.

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/02/15/has-the-time-come-to-name-the-dishonored-dead/
Thank you, I read all of that.

The graves are for the Dishonored Dead because they were discharged from service before execution. Presumably this entailed their dependants receiving no military pension or benefits so they were punished too.
 

maximus otter

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Came across this rather lovely memorial in Edinburgh's Dean Cemetery last year:

View attachment 30020
l thought l’d look into the death of Albert Barth. lt turns out that Germany has a War Graves Commission similar to ours, with records searchable online.

Barth was reported as missing on 1.1.1945 at Schröttersburg in Zichenau, East Prussia. This is the new name that the Nazis gave to the Polish town of Płock.



It sounds like a lovely little town, though what the Nazis did to it wasn’t so lovely.

The late Mr. Findlay was born Dietrich Rudolf Barth in Berlin on 5 November 1943. His mum married a Captain Findlay of the British occupying forces after the war. When they moved to England, Dietrich was renamed Richard.

So much interesting information available at the press of a few buttons, eh?

maximus otter
 

Spookdaddy

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This thread has reminded me of something that, to my eternal annoyance, I never made a note of at the time. I wonder if anyone else can help.

On a short holiday the Isle of Wight - probably in the late 90's - I visited a churchyard somewhere on the island. In the grounds there was a small headstone or memorial with what I can only describe as the most snide and judgemental inscription I've read in such a situation. (Picture Cissy and Ada harrumphing something along the lines of "Ooooo, she was no better than she ought to have been - I could tell you a thing or two...." while enthusiastically adjusting their bazooms: it was basically that - written in stone.)

Now, I am not in the least so enamoured of my powers of memory that I totally trust it on this (or anything else, for that matter), but I'm pretty sure it was for a woman - and, although my memory may have exaggerated the case, I'm pretty sure the inscription was inclined quite clearly in the way I've described. Also - and this is the odd thing, if I'm right in my memory about the attitude to the deceased - I'm pretty sure that the stone was quite close to the porch, rather than hidden away somewhere on the outer edge of the graveyard.

It seemed so out of the usual way that years later I felt like I would find references on the internet in local guides and things like that, but - at least last time I looked - I could find nothing.

I wonder if this rings a bell for anyone local, or who knows the island well.
 

genex17

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Thank you, I read all of that.

The graves are for the Dishonored Dead because they were discharged from service before execution. Presumably this entailed their dependants receiving no military pension or benefits so they were punished too.
Good observation, Escargot. Yes, since they were dishonorably discharged before execution, no VA benefits and consequently no Widow's pension. Since they belong to the veteran, loss of those benefits includes dependents. Even to this day. I have no words for dependents who had nothing to do with their husband's actions.

Yes, it is sad, and one that I regret posting.
 
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Bigphoot2

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A few years back I was in our local cemetery for a funeral and was walking past some graves in an older part of the place. I knew that some great aunts and uncles were buried there so was looking out for them as I just started doing my family tree at the time.
Then this one caught my attention. It was pretty worn and tucked away behind some shrubbery but I realised it was my great-great grandparents! None of my mum's generation knew about it - they do recall my gran saying her grandfather was a nasty old bastard who put her and her brother into separate orphanages when her parents died, she was three at the time and didn't see her brother again until she was in her forties.

Jmitchell.jpg
 

maximus otter

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This thread has reminded me of something that, to my eternal annoyance, I never made a note of at the time. I wonder if anyone else can help.

On a short holiday the Isle of Wight - probably in the late 90's - I visited a churchyard somewhere on the island. In the grounds there was a small headstone or memorial with what I can only describe as the most snide and judgemental inscription I've read in such a situation. (Picture Cissy and Ada harrumphing something along the lines of "Ooooo, she was no better than she ought to have been - I could tell you a thing or two...." while enthusiastically adjusting their bazooms: it was basically that - written in stone.)

Now, I am not in the least so enamoured of my powers of memory that I totally trust it on this (or anything else, for that matter), but I'm pretty sure it was for a woman - and, although my memory may have exaggerated the case, I'm pretty sure the inscription was inclined quite clearly in the way I've described. Also - and this is the odd thing, if I'm right in my memory about the attitude to the deceased - I'm pretty sure that the stone was quite close to the porch, rather than hidden away somewhere on the outer edge of the graveyard.

It seemed so out of the usual way that years later I felt like I would find references on the internet in local guides and things like that, but - at least last time I looked - I could find nothing.

I wonder if this rings a bell for anyone local, or who knows the island well.
Anything to do with Elizabeth Wallbridge, “The Dairyman’s Daughter”, buried at St. George’s church, Arreton?

maximus otter
 

Frideswide

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It was so weird finding it, but all sorts of strange coincidences happened to me once I started doing my family tree.
you can't leave it like that! go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on !
 

Bigphoot2

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you can't leave it like that! go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on !
Here's a few:
There was a guy at work who got me interested in doing my family tree - it turned out he was a distant relative on my dad's side of the family which I knew very little about.
I made contact with a relative in Australia, she sent me a photograph of her mother who was the spitting image of my mother and when my mum looked at the photo she said "Oh, we had wallpaper and a lamp like that."
Back in the late 60s a cousin married an American serviceman who was based at RAF Edzell in Scotland and they ended up living in Raleigh, North Carolina. Back in the 1800's I had an ancestor who lived near Edzell, emigrate to America and ended up in Raleigh.
A cousin of my mother got in touch after nearly 50 years. We sent each other family photographs and they wrote back saying "We know you!" It turns out they were head teachers and would attend meetings at the teacher training college where I worked and I'd been chatting with them for over 15 years.
 

Frideswide

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escargot

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It was so weird finding it, but all sorts of strange coincidences happened to me once I started doing my family tree.
This is something one hears about genealogy researchers. When they start looking into their family tree they notice odd things cropping up, like the encounters you describe.
 

Bigphoot2

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This is something one hears about genealogy researchers. When they start looking into their family tree they notice odd things cropping up, like the encounters you describe.
One of my long lost relatives told me that some cultures believe that ancestors in the spirit world choose someone living to tell their story and will help them in subtle ways.
 

escargot

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One of my long lost relatives told me that some cultures believe that ancestors in the spirit world choose someone living to tell their story and will help them in subtle ways.
Sounds exactly right! :D
 

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I looked at Highgate Cemetary on Google maps, and maybe it’s just me, but some of these houses almost look as if their gardens have old graves in, or at least that their gardens encroach on the graveyard. It’s such a fascinating, sprawling place and so heavily wooded and then you see little clearings with old graves.

I’d found those houses very interesting (atmospheric) to live in, or any house I suppose that looked onto an old graveyard.

7BA844DE-47EB-4981-8B48-FB2D13E542D8.jpeg



Not sure about this one though, North Lopham chapel, which was for sale a while back.

North lopham chapel
 
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