Gravity Modification With Spinning High-Temp Superconductors

[Carl Grove]

All sheer nonsense. But believe it if you like; I'd prefer to see any evidence of a working anti-gravity machine. In reality there is none. If there were any evidence at all Hal Puthoff would have his Nobel prize by now.

Kecksburg was a meteor, that landed nowhere near the United States. A lot of people believe in the myth of this fictional Bovril-powered antigravity craft, but it would never get off the ground.

Unenriched uranium was mostly being used by the Third Reich for uranium-tipped conventional weapons, just as we use depleted uranium today. Heisenberg was also trying to make an atomic pile from uranium, but since he was also using unenriched uranium, a chain reaction would have been very difficult to achieve.

Cubes of unenriched uranium from Heisenberg's experiments were found on the black market after the war, and it is possible Kammler may have had some of these, but since he disappeared after the war it is difficult to know what he had. All the Nazi uranium cubes are unenriched.

And of course there is no evidence that the Bell even used uranium for any purpose, since it didn't exist.

I like how you don't even make any response to any of my points, just reiterate your usual beliefs. Nothing you have said bears any relation to the generally accepted facts about either the Bell or Kecksburg! But if you go on relying on sceptical second-hand stories instead of actually checking the sources I suppose that's to be expected. Kammler didn't disappear after the war, he came to the US like other Paperclip personnel. And the Bell was based on plasma physics not nuclear power.

 

[eburacum]

So the Bell did not require uranium, then? Fascinating. Instead it relied on entirely imaginary plasma physics, none of which survived the war. We have plenty of rocket-related and jet-related science and technology that is a legacy of the Nazi war effort, but no plasma technology whatsoever - and certainly no antigravity technology.

But I'm afraid that you are quite wrong about Kecksburg. It had nothing to do with the entirely fictional Glocke. None of the contemporary witnesses mentioned an acorn, or a bell - that is a much later addition (acorn reports started to surface in 1987, twenty years after the fact). In fact, nothing at all came down at Kecksburg; however a large meteor went over and left a visible trail, on its way to Canada. No-one from NASA were involved in searching for the supposed object, although a small squad of Air Force personnel came from Oak Ridge radar station and found nothing. It is possible that some of the witnesses saw this squad packing up their equipment and taking it away.

About something that was carried out of the woods, Capt. Dussia said it was the equipment used in the search.

http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite3_6.pdf

One mildly interesting thing about the Kecksburg acorn reports is that they started to surface in the late 1980's; shortly after that Witkowski first heard about the mythical Nazi Bell (Die Glocke) and began to write his (at least third hand) account. If we assume that Witkowski is reporting the facts as he understands them, then the sources that he quotes (many of which are not available for independent verification) are presumably fraudulent, or perhaps simply fictional.

Note in particular that Witkowski refers to the anti-gravity phenomenon as 'vril', which is a fictional form of energy described by Edward Bulwer-Lytton in 1871 in his fictional work 'The Coming Race'. Bulwer-Lytton was very popular in Victorian times, but he is seen nowadays as a hack writer who wrote terrible novels, including the 'vril' one.

He coined famous phrases like "pursuit of the almighty dollar", "the pen is mightier than the sword", "dweller on the threshold", "the great unwashed", and the opening phrase "It was a dark and stormy night." The sardonic Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest, held annually since 1982, claims to seek the "opening sentence of the worst of all possible novels".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bulwer-Lytton

 

[Carl Grove]

So the Bell did not require uranium, then? Fascinating. Instead it relied on entirely imaginary plasma physics, none of which survived the war. We have plenty of rocket-related and jet-related science and technology that is a legacy of the Nazi war effort, but no plasma technology whatsoever - and certainly no antigravity technology.

But I'm afraid that you are quite wrong about Kecksburg. It had nothing to do with the entirely fictional Glocke. None of the contemporary witnesses mentioned an acorn, or a bell - that is a much later addition (acorn reports started to surface in 1987, twenty years after the fact). In fact, nothing at all came down at Kecksburg; however a large meteor went over and left a visible trail, on its way to Canada. No-one from NASA were involved in searching for the supposed object, although a small squad of Air Force personnel came from Oak Ridge radar station and found nothing. It is possible that some of the witnesses saw this squad packing up their equipment and taking it away.

http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite3_6.pdf

One mildly interesting thing about the Kecksburg acorn reports is that they started to surface in the late 1980's; shortly after that Witkowski first heard about the mythical Nazi Bell (Die Glocke) and began to write his (at least third hand) account. If we assume that Witkowski is reporting the facts as he understands them, then the sources that he quotes (many of which are not available for independent verification) are presumably fraudulent, or perhaps simply fictional.

Note in particular that Witkowski refers to the anti-gravity phenomenon as 'vril', which is a fictional form of energy described by Edward Bulwer-Lytton in 1871 in his fictional work 'The Coming Race'. Bulwer-Lytton was very popular in Victorian times, but he is seen nowadays as a hack writer who wrote terrible novels, including the 'vril' one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bulwer-Lytton

Nothing came down at Kecksburg? I suggest first you take a look at Fortean Ivan Sanderson's book Things, pub. 1967. It was written very soon after the events in 1965 and says clearly that something did fall on Kecksburg. Plotting the flight path it seems the object travelled in a straight line from east of Flint, Mich then made a 25 degree course change to the east then took a straight path to Kecksburg. It was moving far slower than any normal meteor and was dropping fiery material along its path.
Then check out an interesting documentary (UFO TV, Kecksburg UFO crash) featuring interviews with many witnesses at Kecksburg. One was playing with a pal when they heard an unusual sound. His name was Randy Overlee. This is what he said:
"I was approximately 10 years old. I was playing with a friend of mine out in an open field by a creek. And I heard a noise and looked to the northwest and we saw an object come at us. We could see it a pretty good distance away. We watched it come right on top of us and in my vision it was sort of acorn-shaped. It had a round area around the back, it was a brownish-greyish colour. There was fire coming out of the back of it." Another witness, Bill Bulebush, described a bluish fireball which hesitated then made a U turn and descended into Kecksburg. There are also interviews with people who saw the object in the woods and who described something very like the bell, and accounts of how military people arrived very quickly afterwards and kept people away. The local news was effectively shut down. Check out the whole programme which I think you can still get on YouTube.
I was interested that several witnesses described people with NASA insignia. I thought for years that this was probably disinformation to push the "alien" scenario but I now wonder if NASA had been seeing if the Bell could get a payload into orbit. There certainly was a lot of disinfo going on, all pushing the ET agenda.

The witnesses who did see the object in the wood described it surrounded by a blue haze, interesting because that is exactly how the Bell was described when in operation. The programme features news reports of the time all asserting that something had come down in Kecksburg.

One point you have totally wrong. The object was never "on its way to Canada." Later reports based on a more thorough analysis indicated that it had originally come from that direction.

As for Witkowski's research, it was conducted with his usual thoroughness. He also came across a lot of supplementary evidence including witness reports of strange objects in the air over some of the facilities. And the greater part of his book is dealing with more mundane but still amazingly advanced devices made in the Reich at that time.

The plasma physics was a new idea but the basic concept, Igor thinks, is actually the usual idea of high speed spin, but with plasma instead of solid materials. Later he heard from a high ranking Polish intelligence guy that the Americans were still trying to get it working but the pilots were "disintegrating."

 

[eburacum]

Nothing came down at Kecksburg? I suggest first you take a look at Fortean Ivan Sanderson's book Things, pub. 1967. It was written very soon after the events in 1965 and says clearly that something did fall on Kecksburg. Plotting the flight path it seems the object travelled in a straight line from east of Flint, Mich then made a 25 degree course change to the east then took a straight path to Kecksburg.

Sanderson was certainly not the only person who plotted the path of this object. Several professional astronomers plotted it as well, including Dr. Von Del Chamberlain, David Krause, Ralph Johnson, Dr. J.A.V. Douglas and Henry Lee all plotted it as well and found no deviations until it fell in Ontario. Ivan Sanderson was almost certainly wrong - nothing fell in Kecksburg.

 

[eburacum]

One point you have totally wrong. The object was never "on its way to Canada." Later reports based on a more thorough analysis indicated that it had originally come from that direction.

Well, half a dozen real astronomers disagree. The object came from outer space, and its trajectory ended above Canada. However nothing was found - as is often the case.

 

[eburacum]

Then check out an interesting documentary (UFO TV, Kecksburg UFO crash) featuring interviews with many witnesses at Kecksburg.

All these interviews were made at least fifteen years later; the witnesses at the time only saw a flare in the sky. Bulebush changed his story many times - he originally claimed that there were at least ten people with him, but when none of these could be produced, he changed his story to being alone. Bulebush produced the most detailed descriptions but none of them can be relied upon.

 

[eburacum]

The plasma physics was a new idea but the basic concept, Igor thinks, is actually the usual idea of high speed spin, but with plasma instead of solid materials. Later he heard from a high ranking Polish intelligence guy that the Americans were still trying to get it working but the pilots were "disintegrating."

If we are to be charitable, we must assume that this 'high ranking intelligence guy' was repeating a tall tale from decades before. If we were to be uncharitable I'd suggest that it was just a hoax at Witkowski's expense. The David Grusch syndrome all over again.

We need much, much, much better evidence than this to demonstrate that the Nazis had antigravity - something we still don't have today, and probably never will.

 

[Carl Grove]

All these interviews were made at least fifteen years later; the witnesses at the time only saw a flare in the sky. Bulebush changed his story many times - he originally claimed that there were at least ten people with him, but when none of these could be produced, he changed his story to being alone. Bulebush produced the most detailed descriptions but none of them can be relied upon.

The main interviews of relevance to this discussion were with the news media of the day. The statement by the guy who was a child at the time impresses me. There was no doubt that a large number of military descended upon Kecksburg (and were there so quickly that they must have set off before the object came down). And there were descriptions of the object made by witnesses long before Witkowski was told about the Bell, so it is very significant that they resembled the strange and very distinctive object. Of course you ignored Sanderson's analysis that pinpointed Kecksburg as the object's likely destination. I have no particular view on how effective field propulsion is (NASA is trying to develop their own) but if the Bell was essentially too dangerous to pilot that would rule it out as any kind of reliable drive.

 

[eburacum]

Of course you ignored Sanderson's analysis that pinpointed Kecksburg as the object's likely destination.

No, I did not - it is completely wrong. Sanderson's analysis assumes that the meteor was travelling in then opposite direction that it in fact did travel. Witnesses in the US on the shore of Lake Erie saw the meteor travelling towards Canada, so it cannot have landed in Kecksburg.
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite3_6.pdf

It was fortunate that two photographers, Lowell Wright and Richard Champine , were able to photograph the debris trail in the evening sky after the event. This debris trail provided a source of data that as accurate enough to compute a good trajectory. Because of this, the scientists were able to select two distinct points on the debris trail (see above labeled A and B) and use them to compute a trajectory. Writing in the Meteorites of Michigan, Dr. Von Del Chamberlain (staff astronomer of the Abrams Planetarium in Lansing, Michigan) described what was done next: The author and two associates, David Krause and Ralph Johnson, went to both these locations and made transit readings based upon the photographs. The trajectory and end-point of the fireball were then computed (fig. 4).

Interviewing residents near the computed end-point revealed the fireball trail did, in fact, end directly overhead in extreme southwest Ontario, thus confirming its trajectory and likely region of fall.
Luckily both sets of photographs had landmarks, which allowed for pinpointing the location of the photographer and the trails position in the sky. The use of a transit allowed for precise measurements of azimuth and elevation. The resultant trajectory showed the meteor had appeared near the northern shore of Lake Erie and headed northeast.

 

[eburacum]

Most important of all, the Nazi Bell is supposed to exist in a time when plasma physics as we know it today did not exist, so it could never have got off the ground.

The concept of gravity modification using relativistically-spinning masses is a real one, because of a phenomenon called frame-dragging - but no solid material made from physical matter could spin at relativistic speeds. One possibility which has been suggested (long after the Nazi bell is supposed to have existed) is that charged particles could be accelerated inside a toroidal racetrack and accelerated to such speed. This is the principle behind the tokamak and the large hadron collider at CERN.

Note that the LHC and other accelerators do not display any significant anti-gravity effects, even though they do cause frame-dragging; this is because the frame-dragging effect is symmetrical, and the tiny amount of upward force beneath the LHC is counteracted by a corresponding downward effect on the top. There are plenty of really interesting things one could do with frame-dragging- for instance, a pair of closely orbiting neutron stars or black holes would distort spacetime so much that a particle, or a spaceship could be accelerated to very near lightspeed just by passing near (or between) them. Roger Penrose has described a method of extracting vast amounts of energy from a single spinning black hole that relies on the fact that the relativistic motion condenses momentum as you approach the speed of light. There is no such thing as a free lunch, though - if you extract momentum from a spinning black hole it slows down slightly.

None of this is relevant to the Nazi Bell; it could not have supported any significant relativistic rotation or frame-dragging given the materials available at the time, and it could never have lifted its own weight off the ground. To get the good stuff we would need to travel thousands of light years to reach the nearest pair of orbiting neutron stars or black holes.

 

[Carl Grove]

No, I did not - it is completely wrong. Sanderson's analysis assumes that the meteor was travelling in then opposite direction that it in fact did travel. Witnesses in the US on the shore of Lake Erie saw the meteor travelling towards Canada, so it cannot have landed in Kecksburg.
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite3_6.pdf

Sanderson's analysis was based upon the available data and I am inclined to think that the later claims of a meteor travelling in the opposite direction are either totally wrong or based upon an entirely separate phenomenon.

Regarding the understanding of plasma physics, you do need to check out Stevens' as well as Witkowski's books. In particular Stevens' discussions about Ronald Richter, a scientist who had been involved in work for Kammler and whose speciality was plasma. After the war he applied to work for the US and listed a lot of applications of plasma research, but was turned down and went to Argentina instead where he got involved with Peron, who seems to have misunderstood the whole thing and imagined that he was making a nuclear bomb. If you seriously want to research these things you must check out the sources.

 

[eburacum]

I am inclined to think that the later claims of a meteor travelling in the opposite direction are either totally wrong or based upon an entirely separate phenomenon.

Yes, that possibility is also discussed in the link I gave, and it is shown to be utterly absurd. Two fast-moving objects travelling in opposite directions at the same time, one a naturally-occuring meteor and the other a man-made (utterly fantastical) object. Note that no-one saw two separate objects - there was only one.

Sanderson couldn't even grasp the difference between miles per hour and miles per minute.
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite3_6.pdf

 

[Carl Grove]

Yes, that possibility is also discussed in the link I gave, and it is shown to be utterly absurd. Two fast-moving objects travelling in opposite directions at the same time, one a naturally-occuring meteor and the other a man-made (utterly fantastical) object. Note that no-one saw two separate objects - there was only one.

Sanderson couldn't even grasp the difference between miles per hour and miles per minute.
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite3_6.pdf

Whether Sanderson could or could not "grasp the difference" (as he was an intelligence operative by training) the fact is that many people did see the object come down in the Kecksburg area and witnesses did indeed describe an object identical to the descriptions of the Bell. The documentary that I mentioned provides much previously unrecorded eye witness testimony and in my view it remains a very significant case. As I said, if you get the original sources instead of popularised "sceptical" theorising you may get a more balanced view of the case.

 

[eburacum]

he was an intelligence operative by training

Not an astronomer then.

I have very little faith in intelligence officers - they tend to be far too credulous, but perhaps that is because they see threats in every dark shadow. Pilots do the same - they see alien spaceships in Batman balloons and Bart Simpson balloons. Perhaps we should be grateful; one day they might be right.

...witnesses did indeed describe an object identical to the descriptions of the Bell.

The first description of an acorn (not a bell) emerged fifteen years later. Publicity and the involvement of 'intelligence officer' Sanderson no doubt encouraged this. Incidentally there are no photographs or blueprints of the so-called Bell, which is not surprising since it didn't exist.

 

[Carl Grove]

Not an astronomer then.

I have very little faith in intelligence officers - they tend to be far too credulous, but perhaps that is because they see threats in every dark shadow. Pilots do the same - they see alien spaceships in Batman balloons and Bart Simpson balloons. Perhaps we should be grateful; one day they might be right.

The first description of an acorn (not a bell) emerged fifteen years later. Publicity and the involvement of 'intelligence officer' Sanderson no doubt encouraged this. Incidentally there are no photographs or blueprints of the so-called Bell, which is not surprising since it didn't exist.

I am certain that it did exist but have no strong feelings about it. Moreover, whatever your feelings about intelligence agents, the British did notice the henge structure at the riese and sent an aircraft to get photos. Moreover given that they were probably getting some info from the decrypts obtained from Enigma they knew all about Kammler and his role in the Nazi operation. When Kammler offered a deal with US intelligence that included both the submarine and the Bell and likely other stuff we don't know about (other field propulsion projects) they jumped at the chance. The documentary below gives an insight into what was going on at that time. Incidentally one of Kammler's relations was on board that sub.

 

[Sid]

In many ways, almost everything in physics and cosmology is an unknown reality. All we can do is measure certain quantities with respect to one another, and this makes all knowledge relative.

Sometimes this data and these relationships allow engineers to build something useful, like a steam engine, an MRI machine, a laptop, or a space rocket, but no-one knows why these physical qualities exist or have the values that they do.

I've been wondering if it is possible to move backwards or forwards in time (i.e. in time machine terms), and I'm thinking now that going back in time - or forwards in time might not ever be realistic, because the 'Now time' locks it in only in a given forwards overriding motion either way ~ if this makes any sense?

 

[eburacum]

Moving forwards in time is fairly trivial - we all move forwards in time at a rate of one second per second.

However this rate is only relative to our particular 'frame of reference' (a compound concept that refers to our current position and our velocity compared to other objects). If we were to travel in a very fast spaceship close to the speed of light, we would appear to travel more quickly into the future when observed from the outside. This is known as time dilation: one way time travel into the future only.

Note that it doesn't have to be a spaceship; a very few stars in our galaxy are travelling at significant fractions of the speed of light, and the galaxies at the edge of the universe are all travelling away from us at phenomenal speed too. This means that forward time travel is not only possible, but when you consider the entire visible universe, it is situation normal.

Backwards time travel is a different proposition, and may be entirely impossible.

 

[eburacum]

I'm more interested in this experiment, which should be happening very soon.
(already mentioned in this post)
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...spaceflight-is-it-possible.24483/post-2305488

A new propellant less device will soon be tested in space:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/satellites/a45850635/quantum-drive-space-test/
It's based on Quantized Inertia theory.

When it comes to theories of gravity and motion, Isaac Newton looms large. The 17th century English luminary devised laws that helped humanity understand the underlying physics of our natural lives. But just as some scientists question whether Newton’s (and, subsequently, Einstein’s) ideas fully grasp the nature of gravity, so too does a small-yet-persistent minority challenge Newton’s Laws of Motion—specifically, the bit regarding inertia.

One of those fringe theories is an idea known as Quantized Inertia (QI), which was first proposed in 2007 by Mike McCulloch at Plymouth University. If that name sounds familiar, McCulloch is the mastermind behind the EmDrive—a theoretical device described as an “impossible engine” because it doesn’t rely on propellant for motion. Instead, it relies on the complicated inner workings of quantum mechanics to get its small-yet-allegedly-noticeable thrust. Despite more than a decade of widespread criticism, the QI idea has persisted, and the embattled theory is now facing its ultimate test.

Given control over inertia then some kind of antigravity should be possible; trouble is, it could also lead to over-unity devices and free energy. All of which is verboten.
I await the results with interest.

 

[Stormkhan]

Most time travel is explained away in fiction as being able to 'step outside' linear time (as Sids illustration shows) then re-insert the traveller into the stream.
There's never any explanation as to a) how to do this, or b) how to return to your correct point in the stream. Of course, this doesn't factor in the possible 'chronoclasms' i.e. messing with future time, and paradoxes.
And they usually totally ignore the fact that time relates to our own geography. For instance, travel back or travel forward - when you 're-insert' the country and the Earth will be in a different place in relation to the Sun, which in turn will be in a different place and so on ...
So travelling in time involves cosmology.

 

[Carl Grove]

Most time travel is explained away in fiction as being able to 'step outside' linear time (as Sids illustration shows) then re-insert the traveller into the stream.
There's never any explanation as to a) how to do this, or b) how to return to your correct point in the stream. Of course, this doesn't factor in the possible 'chronoclasms' i.e. messing with future time, and paradoxes.
And they usually totally ignore the fact that time relates to our own geography. For instance, travel back or travel forward - when you 're-insert' the country and the Earth will be in a different place in relation to the Sun, which in turn will be in a different place and so on ...
So travelling in time involves cosmology.

The point about the relative position of the earth in time slips is one that (in my view) argues that we are in a simulation. Because time slips always involve the same geographical location and always have a limited area of operation. Attempts to explain such phenomena using physics will always fail. But it should be emphasized that our knowledge of physics in a thousand or million years time may well be able to resolve that issue. At the moment we can't explain it in terms of quantum or relativistic physics.

 

[eburacum]

Most time travel is explained away in fiction as being able to 'step outside' linear time (as Sids illustration shows) then re-insert the traveller into the stream.
There's never any explanation as to a) how to do this, or b) how to return to your correct point in the stream. Of course, this doesn't factor in the possible 'chronoclasms' i.e. messing with future time, and paradoxes.
And they usually totally ignore the fact that time relates to our own geography. For instance, travel back or travel forward - when you 're-insert' the country and the Earth will be in a different place in relation to the Sun, which in turn will be in a different place and so on ...

Rather than looking to Back to the Future or Doctor Who for information about possible methods of time travel, you should look at Kip Thorne's work on wormholes. Thorne was an advisor on the movies Contact and Interstellar, and has worked out some pretty impressive maths about the characteristics of temporally-displaced wormholes.
Step one; find or make a wormhole, which connects two nearby locations in space. Such a wormhole might be part of the normal fluctuations of spacetime, and could be both fantastically small and fantastically short. Each wormhole has a separate mouth at each end.
Step Two: by adding exotic (negative) energy you could, in theory, inflate the two wormhole mouths and make them big enough to pass information or even matter through.
Step three; take one of the two wormhole mouths on a journey in a very fast (relativistic) spaceship. This causes the two mouths to become separated by time dilation effects, so that one end travels forward in time much more slowly than the other. Leave the other wormhole mouth somewhere safe, like your research laboratory.
Step Four Bring that wormhole mouth back to Earth again, and park it right next to the other mouth in your lab. Because of time dilation, one of the two mouths would be much further into the future than the other one, so by passing through it you can get to the future quite easily.
Step five Instead of going into the future, turn round and go through the wormhole the other way - this will take you back into the absolute past. Now you have a working time machine, sitting in the lab; both ends of the wormhole are firmly located in the same place next to each other, so there is no question that 'the Earth will be in a different place in relation to the Sun' and so on - they are both right there and will continue to be there for the foreseeable future, so long as you have enough exotic energy to keep them open.

The main difficulties with this method of time travel are a/ finding or creating a wormhole and b/ finding exotic (negative) energy to inflate them and keep them inflated. Thorne has some suggestions for that too. Once you've got your time machine you then have to worry about temporal paradoxes, which are the subject of innumerable SF stories and thought experiments, and I'm sure you are familiar with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kip_Thorne#Wormholes_and_time_travel

 

[Carl Grove]

Rather than looking to Back to the Future or Doctor Who for information about possible methods of time travel, you should look at Kip Thorne's work on wormholes. Thorne was an advisor on the movies Contact and Interstellar, and has worked out some pretty impressive maths about the characteristics of temporally-displaced wormholes.
Step one; find or make a wormhole, which connects two nearby locations in space. Such a wormhole might be part of the normal fluctuations of spacetime, and could be both fantastically small and fantastically short. Each wormhole has a separate mouth at each end.
Step Two: by adding exotic (negative) energy you could, in theory, inflate the two wormhole mouths and make them big enough to pass information or even matter through.
Step three; take one of the two wormhole mouths on a journey in a very fast (relativistic) spaceship. This causes the two mouths to become separated by time dilation effects, so that one end travels forward in time much more slowly than the other. Leave the other wormhole mouth somewhere safe, like your research laboratory.
Step Four Bring that wormhole mouth back to Earth again, and park it right next to the other mouth in your lab. Because of time dilation, one of the two mouths would be much further into the future than the other one, so by passing through it you can get to the future quite easily.
Step five Instead of going into the future, turn round and go through the wormhole the other way - this will take you back into the absolute past. Now you have a working time machine, sitting in the lab; both ends of the wormhole are firmly located in the same place next to each other, so there is no question that 'the Earth will be in a different place in relation to the Sun' and so on - they are both right there and will continue to be there for the foreseeable future, so long as you have enough exotic energy to keep them open.

The main difficulties with this method of time travel are a/ finding or creating a wormhole and b/ finding exotic (negative) energy to inflate them and keep them inflated. Thorne has some suggestions for that too. Once you've got your time machine you then have to worry about temporal paradoxes, which are the subject of innumerable SF stories and thought experiments, and I'm sure you are familiar with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kip_Thorne#Wormholes_and_time_travel

That's very interesting. What do you make of the anomaly at the Skinwalker Ranch that seems to be consistent with the theoretical black hole? Seems that a lidar scan revealed a completely empty zone and also a time anomaly in the episode shown last week (always a few months behind the US screening). Travis seems to think it is strong evidence.

 

[Sid]

Moving forwards in time is fairly trivial - we all move forwards in time at a rate of one second per second.

However this rate is only relative to our particular 'frame of reference' (a compound concept that refers to our current position and our velocity compared to other objects). If we were to travel in a very fast spaceship close to the speed of light, we would appear to travel more quickly into the future when observed from the outside. This is known as time dilation: one way time travel into the future only.

Note that it doesn't have to be a spaceship; a very few stars in our galaxy are travelling at significant fractions of the speed of light, and the galaxies at the edge of the universe are all travelling away from us at phenomenal speed too. This means that forward time travel is not only possible, but when you consider the entire visible universe, it is situation normal.

[Backwards time travel is a different proposition, and may be entirely impossible.]

That's what I was imagining ~ to myself, but didn't know!

 

[Sid]

Rather than looking to Back to the Future or Doctor Who for information about possible methods of time travel, you should look at Kip Thorne's work on wormholes. Thorne was an advisor on the movies Contact and Interstellar, and has worked out some pretty impressive maths about the characteristics of temporally-displaced wormholes.
[Step one; find or make a wormhole, which connects two nearby locations in space. Such a wormhole might be part of the normal fluctuations of spacetime, and could be both fantastically small and fantastically short. Each wormhole has a separate mouth at each end.]
Step Two: by adding exotic (negative) energy you could, in theory, inflate the two wormhole mouths and make them big enough to pass information or even matter through.
Step three; take one of the two wormhole mouths on a journey in a very fast (relativistic) spaceship. This causes the two mouths to become separated by time dilation effects, so that one end travels forward in time much more slowly than the other. Leave the other wormhole mouth somewhere safe, like your research laboratory.
Step Four Bring that wormhole mouth back to Earth again, and park it right next to the other mouth in your lab. Because of time dilation, one of the two mouths would be much further into the future than the other one, so by passing through it you can get to the future quite easily.
Step five Instead of going into the future, turn round and go through the wormhole the other way - this will take you back into the absolute past. Now you have a working time machine, sitting in the lab; both ends of the wormhole are firmly located in the same place next to each other, so there is no question that 'the Earth will be in a different place in relation to the Sun' and so on - they are both right there and will continue to be there for the foreseeable future, so long as you have enough exotic energy to keep them open.

The main difficulties with this method of time travel are a/ finding or creating a wormhole and b/ finding exotic (negative) energy to inflate them and keep them inflated. Thorne has some suggestions for that too. Once you've got your time machine you then have to worry about temporal paradoxes, which are the subject of innumerable SF stories and thought experiments, and I'm sure you are familiar with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kip_Thorne#Wormholes_and_time_travel

But. . . can a 'worm-hole' be either 'in' at one end and out the other as we are informed, or could a worm-hole be in-or-out at both ends? i.e. Colliding matter somewhere down inside the worm-hole, or pushing matter out at both ends?

 

[Stormkhan]

The important factor is to say you can use wormholes to travel in time requires you to define wormholes and the physics involved in their 'operation'.
I don't watch Doctor Who and I don't rate Back To The Future.
Black holes and white holes, I can get behind. Wormholes are more of a theoretical supposition.
"You need a way to leave linear time/space."
"Ah, just find your local wormhole and ..."
That is the province of Star Trek: Deep Space 9.

 

[Sid]

The important factor is to say you can use wormholes to travel in time requires you to define wormholes and the physics involved in their 'operation'.
I don't watch Doctor Who and I don't rate Back To The Future.
Black holes and white holes, I can get behind. Wormholes are more of a theoretical supposition.
"You need a way to leave linear time/space."
"Ah, just find your local wormhole and ..."
That is the province of Star Trek: Deep Space 9.

Got a few in my back garden!

 

[Stormkhan]

Yup. I need not worry, though. My bloody dogs march all over the beggars!

 

[eburacum]

Kip Thorne suggested that wormholes actually exist everywhere in space, even in the empty space of a vacuum. So there is no need to go very far to find one. The trouble is they are too small to see, or even detect with the technology we have today (although our current sensor technology does serve to place an upper bound on the size of these tiny space-time entities). This theoretical concept is known as 'quantum foam' and might look like this.

Each of these tiny loops is a wormhole, smaller than a quark, and very short-lived. But if these 'holes could be captured and expanded they could potentially be used as a travel conduit.

Possibly these tiny wormholes sometimes expand spontaneously to human size, and allow people to pass backwards or forwards in time. This seems unlikely, though, since the wormhole would quickly collapse unless it was artificially inflated, and that would leave the individual stranded in the past or future (something that almost never occurs in Fortean stories of timeslips and so on).

 

[eburacum]

But. . . can a 'worm-hole' be either 'in' at one end and out the other as we are informed, or could a worm-hole be in-or-out at both ends? i.e. Colliding matter somewhere down inside the worm-hole, or pushing matter out at both ends?

Like any tunnel, you can't travel in both directions at once unless there is enough room to pass each other.

That's very interesting. What do you make of the anomaly at the Skinwalker Ranch that seems to be consistent with the theoretical black hole? Seems that a lidar scan revealed a completely empty zone and also a time anomaly in the episode shown last week (always a few months behind the US screening). Travis seems to think it is strong evidence.

I think Travis Taylor is aware of Kip Thorne's work, and that may influence his own theories about what is happening at Skinwalker Ranch.

Whether Taylor is correct or not I can't really say - but I doubt it very much, since Kip Thorne maintains that wormholes of this kind are unlikely to form naturally, and some kind of advanced technology would be required to open them, keep them open and close them. This technology should be large and clearly detectable - instead the 'portals' appear and disappear seemingly at random.

 

[Carl Grove]

Like any tunnel, you can't travel in both directions at once unless there is enough room to pass each other.

I think Travis Taylor is aware of Kip Thorne's work, and that may influence his own theories about what is happening at Skinwalker Ranch.

Whether Taylor is correct or not I can't really say - but I doubt it very much, since Kip Thorne maintains that wormholes of this kind are unlikely to form naturally, and some kind of advanced technology would be required to open them, keep them open and close them. This technology should be large and clearly detectable - instead the 'portals' appear and disappear seemingly at random.

I agree, it is unlikely that something like this could form naturally. And there is no doubt that some intelligence is involved in the goings-on at Skinwalker (and at other locations in Utah now the subject of further research). Maybe the technology is inside the large anomalies inside the mesa and resisting all attempts to gain access to? And I suspect that the ancient stone circle on top of the mesa with the typical spiral pattern is also a factor -- these spirals are found all over the world. My own theory is that at one time ancient megaliths, stone circles and henges were active parts of a worldwide communication network. Some of them are still active today, generating time slips and dimensional effects in a random fashion. But the knowledge of how to operate them has been lost.