Hallucinogens

Mythopoeika

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#61
Yes I thought the same thing. Synchronised hallucinations, I don't think much research has been done on this type of phenomenon. Very strange and interesting. I do believe that the tryptamine psychedelics (such as DMT, mushrooms-Psilocin etc.,) are very unusual and can produce strange phenomenon, especially when two (or more) people who are very close to each other take them together and experience the trip within close proximity to each other. Maybe under certain circumstances the drug can bridge a stronger psychical connection between two people who already have a pre-existing psychical link developed over time.
If it happens a lot, yes it could be some kind of connection...or the drug lifted away a veil that is normally in place, and what they saw was the 'real' reality? Scary thought.
 

Jim

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#62
When young did LSD in some very powerful forms at that (> 36 hr. high once). From personal experience there is nothing real about the hallucinations - weird colors_sounds, etc. I would never do it again nor would I recommend it to others. I was young and foolish.
 

FrKadash

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#63
When young did LSD in some very powerful forms at that (> 36 hr. high once). From personal experience there is nothing real about the hallucinations - weird colors_sounds, etc. I would never do it again nor would I recommend it to others. I was young and foolish.
Agreed, never liked LSD that much either, too dissociative. But my experience with the tryptamine psychedelics has often been very strange, as though something is happening or beginning to happen that is not part of the usual psychedelic experience. The various neuropsychological psychical phenomena seem to manifest at what Terence McKenna termed ''heroic doses'' such as an unusual type of glossolalia or apparent telepathy. I wonder if it is because the body and mind recognises the drug, for example, with N,N-DMT, because it is produced endogenously, (hence why it lasts only 5 to 15 minutes, the body knows exactly what it is, and how to handle it) it somehow acts symbiotically with those little understood parts of the mind to produce, or replicate on demand the various types of psychical abilities often reported.
 

Coastaljames

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#64
Agreed, never liked LSD that much either, too dissociative. But my experience with the tryptamine psychedelics has often been very strange, as though something is happening or beginning to happen that is not part of the usual psychedelic experience. The various neuropsychological psychical phenomena seem to manifest at what Terence McKenna termed ''heroic doses'' such as an unusual type of glossolalia or apparent telepathy. I wonder if it is because the body and mind recognises the drug, for example, with N,N-DMT, because it is produced endogenously, (hence why it lasts only 5 to 15 minutes, the body knows exactly what it is, and how to handle it) it somehow acts symbiotically with those little understood parts of the mind to produce, or replicate on demand the various types of psychical abilities often reported.
Well put and I agree.

Acid is too forced...too chemically...DMT is quite something else. The two are chalk and cheese.

The difference between a Big Mac and the twelve-course tasting menu at a 3-Star Michelin restaurant.


Acid is for kids...in my opinion. Like stolen fags round the bikesheds. Illicit, naughty, silly, fun.

Tryptamines are a different kettle of fish. Genuinely an inner, harrowing, illuminating voyage. A trial. A challenge. To face oneself with no filters. To genuinely look deep into one's very soul and at all the blackest pain and the most shimmering beauty. And hopefully, come back.

The shaman's journey is real. Obviously. It's ancient.
 
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FrKadash

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#66
@FrKadash are you still involved in the Order of Nine mate?
No not really as it became too twisted with all the cyber right-wing stuff, it was always solitary but it got given too much of a bad image online, certain concepts I'm still interested in on a practical level, but the majority of people missed the point with all that and tried to turn it into an outwardly sinister, dark thing. I think Myatt's later/current writings give a more accurate picture of what it was all about. Worth checking out Cj.
 

Coastaljames

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#67
No not really as it became too twisted with all the cyber right-wing stuff, it was always solitary but it got given too much of a bad image online, certain concepts I'm still interested in on a practical level, but the majority of people missed the point with all that and tried to turn it into an outwardly sinister, dark thing. I think Myatt's later/current writings give a more accurate picture of what it was all about. Worth checking out Cj.
I understand...I've never been able to get into the whole "group" thing...I'm for the camp of Groucho and would never be a member of a club that allowed me...plus - people = dicks, as a fairly accurate rule, for me.

Thank you - will look into some of Myatt's newer stuff.
 

FrKadash

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#68
I wasn't sure what to make of this when I first read about it, the footage looks interesting though,



by Nicole Clark
Aug 30 2018, 11:49pm
This Incredible VR Film Takes You on an Ayahuasca Journey to the Amazon
'Awavena' expands the boundaries of what immersive video can do.

You are sitting in a canoe on the Gregório River as a voice gently narrates the story of Hushahu, the first Yawanawá woman to become a shaman. The narrator translates for Hushahu as she speaks about her tribe of roughly 3,000 indigenous peoples spread across Brazil, Peru, and Bolivia and the sacred tradition of taking the medicinal Uni tea (better known as Ayahuasca) in order to convene intimately and spiritually with the forest in which they live.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...kes-you-on-an-ayahuasca-journey-to-the-amazon
 

FrKadash

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#69
Should Ayahuasca Tourism in Peru Be Regulated?
September 8, 2018

When a Canadian man was lynched by a Shipibo community in Peru earlier this year, after murdering one of their most treasured healers, 81-year-old Olivia Arevalo, there were cries of outrage worldwide over the fact that ayahuasca tourism remains unregulated.

Through sources in Iquitos, I discovered that the culprit-turned-victim, Sebastian Woodroffe, had previously been refused entry to Canadian ayahuasca circles due to mental instability, yet he was able to access ayahuasca in Peru as an ayahuasca tourist. He knew of Olivia through an ayahuasca center in Iquitos, the hub of ayahuasca tourism. Although the double murder occurred in Olivia’s community near Pucallpa, where Woodroffe had been visiting solo for some time, it is arguable this atrocity could have been avoided if ayahuasca tourism was restricted.
https://chacruna.net/should-ayahuasca-tourism-peru-be-regulated/
 
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#70
Yes I thought the same thing. Synchronised hallucinations, I don't think much research has been done on this type of phenomenon. Very strange and interesting. I do believe that the tryptamine psychedelics (such as DMT, mushrooms-Psilocin etc.,) are very unusual and can produce strange phenomenon, especially when two (or more) people who are very close to each other take them together and experience the trip within close proximity to each other. Maybe under certain circumstances the drug can bridge a stronger psychical connection between two people who already have a pre-existing psychical link developed over time.
Cool.
 
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#71
Synchronised hallucinations, I don't think much research has been done on this type of phenomenon. Very strange and interesting. I do believe that the tryptamine psychedelics (such as DMT, mushrooms-Psilocin etc.,) are very unusual and can produce strange phenomenon, especially when two (or more) people who are very close to each other take them together and experience the trip within close proximity to each other. Maybe under certain circumstances the drug can bridge a stronger psychical connection between two people who already have a pre-existing psychical link developed over time.
When you consider how sober people can influence each other's thinking and actions, it doesn't need 'psychic connections' for people in close proximity taking inhibition lowering drugs, to have common experiences.
 

FrKadash

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#73
When you consider how sober people can influence each other's thinking and actions, it doesn't need 'psychic connections' for people in close proximity taking inhibition lowering drugs, to have common experiences.
Agreed Coal, and this is a pretty murky area, I mean there is a fine line in this area of study, between all the 70s fortean-kitsch, pseudoscientific new age remote influencing stuff (i.e. the much maligned ganzfeld experiment), and simply poorly understood processes of the Human mind. We are though talking about just connections under a broad range of mental phenomenon, little understood scientifically, not necessarily the common perception of the term 'psychic'. That's why I always try and use 'psychical' in place of 'psychic'. I know they pretty much usually denote the same category of phenomena for most people, but it's an attempt at differentiating between an oft flaky, overused and poorly used term, and a term which can cover the gamut of unusual mental processes.

On another note, considering what you said about 'sober people', psychology Professor Dr. Imants Barušs did some interesting experiments a few years ago in this area of thought, (see, Alterations of Consciousness at a Self-Development Seminar: A Matrix Energetics Seminar Survey: Journal of Consciousness Exploration Research, November 2014). Also recommended is his 2013 book, The Impossible Happens: A Scientist's Personal Discovery of the Extraordinary Nature of Reality.
 
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#74
Agreed Coal, and this is a pretty murky area, I mean there is a fine line in this area of study, between all the 70s fortean-kitsch, pseudoscientific new age remote influencing stuff (i.e. the much maligned ganzfeld experiment), and simply poorly understood processes of the Human mind. We are though talking about just connections under a broad range of mental phenomenon, little understood scientifically, not necessarily the common perception of the term 'psychic'. That's why I always try and use 'psychical' in place of 'psychic'. I know they pretty much usually denote the same category of phenomena for most people, but it's an attempt at differentiating between an oft flaky, overused and poorly used term, and a term which can cover the gamut of unusual mental processes.

On another note, considering what you said about 'sober people', psychology Professor Dr. Imants Barušs did some interesting experiments a few years ago in this area of thought, (see, Alterations of Consciousness at a Self-Development Seminar: A Matrix Energetics Seminar Survey: Journal of Consciousness Exploration Research, November 2014). Also recommended is his 2013 book, The Impossible Happens: A Scientist's Personal Discovery of the Extraordinary Nature of Reality.
Thanks for posting those, most interesting paper.

It's certainly put together in the 'proper' way, but reading it critically (in the academic sense of the word):

The two previous studies summarised are intriguing, the ‘remote influencing’ is by far the most intriguing part of the paper. More details on the controls and protocol really ought to have been included, so the reader doesn’t have to follow the reference, especially with something as contentious as this and ought to include the proposed hypothesis, underlying proposed mechanism or theory, to explain any positive results.

The rest of the paper is interesting; it's clear about ME, i.e. no-one knows what it really is and the whole thing could be down to one charismatic individual manipulating a crowd. This is stated - then the surveys are not applied to control groups, one might, for example, administer the same surveys to people at an NLP seminar, a Gospel church congregation, a corporate retreat or to a health spa. Or all of those.

There’s no mention of randomisation of the various reporting measures either inter or intra. No randomising = no effect. Questionnaires, even solid proven ones, prime each other in odd and unpredictable ways and so does the order of questions within them.

I'd like to see a replication with strong double blind protocols and controls and a hypothesis and proposed mechanism; otherwise, these types results will always be easily 'dismissible'. If one simply looks for an effect, one is hoping for an effect and confirmation bias will worm its way into the work.

The paper might be summed up as “We propose something happens to people during ME sessions and when we checked it did. It might have been good.”

If those studying such esoteric phenomena wish to be taken seriously they have to really double down on the scientific method, both in the design and administration of the experiment and the reporting of it. Firstly because it's up to the proposer to make their case (in this paper, I submit they haven't) and secondly well meaning people then use such flawed results to implement treatments or social policies, which at best are a huge waste of money and at worst cause insidious harm.

Plus replication, replication, replication. The level of statistical significance p<0.05 is generally acceptable in social psychology and is taken to mean a hypothesis is supported by the results, but it still means that if there was no effect, that result would crop up 1 in 20 times by chance.

I've put the book on the big list of books I gradually acquire and read, although these days the end of the list is gaining on me...
 

FrKadash

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#75
Interesting recent article from The New York Times,

Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use (It’s Not Just Your Imagination)
By Laura M. Holson

Oct. 3, 2018

Researchers from Johns Hopkins University have recommended that psilocybin, the active compound in hallucinogenic mushrooms, be reclassified for medical use, potentially paving the way for the psychedelic drug to one day treat depression and anxiety and help people stop smoking.

The suggestion to reclassify psilocybin from a Schedule I drug, with no known medical benefit, to a Schedule IV drug, which is akin to prescription sleeping pills, was part of a review to assess the safety and abuse of medically administered psilocybin.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/...bin-scheduleiv.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
 

Swifty

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#76
The first pic the New York Times have used in this article isn't of psilocybin mushrooms, I can't remember the name of these other ones but they usually grow next to psilocybin .. psilocybin mushrooms have small nipple like shapes on the tops instead .. I used to pick these with my mates although doing so now to eat them is against the law .. you used to be able to eat them in the field without breaking the law, you just weren't allowed to transport them or dry them out (in the UK) ..

ashrooms.jpg
 

FrKadash

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#77
The first pic the New York Times have used in this article isn't of psilocybin mushrooms, I can't remember the name of these other ones but they usually grow next to psilocybin .. psilocybin mushrooms have small nipple like shapes on the tops instead .. I used to pick these with my mates although doing so now to eat them is against the law .. you used to be able to eat them in the field without breaking the law, you just weren't allowed to transport them or dry them out (in the UK) ..

View attachment 12156
Yeah I don't know what those are in the article pic. Liberty Caps (semilanceata) will always be my favourite, I suppose because it's an old school British counter cultural thing, they're also the most well-known and easily identifiable psilocybin mushroom in Blighty and one of the strongest. It's actually the season now. It's mad to think that they were only made illegal back in 2005! I can't imagine that there have been many cases since the law came in of pickers being arrested.
 

James_H

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#78
The first pic the New York Times have used in this article isn't of psilocybin mushrooms, I can't remember the name of these other ones but they usually grow next to psilocybin .. psilocybin mushrooms have small nipple like shapes on the tops instead .. I used to pick these with my mates although doing so now to eat them is against the law .. you used to be able to eat them in the field without breaking the law, you just weren't allowed to transport them or dry them out (in the UK) ..

View attachment 12156
Maybe they don't want people knowing what they look like, or maybe the person who chooses the pictures just isn't hip.
 

Yithian

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#80
Yeah I don't know what those are in the article pic. Liberty Caps (semilanceata) will always be my favourite, I suppose because it's an old school British counter cultural thing, they're also the most well-known and easily identifiable psilocybin mushroom in Blighty and one of the strongest. It's actually the season now. It's mad to think that they were only made illegal back in 2005! I can't imagine that there have been many cases since the law came in of pickers being arrested.
Have I posted my mushroom harvesting story before?
 

Yithian

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#84
Funnily enough, that would have been one of the very albums I would have been listening to daily at the time of the anecdote I posted.
 

Swifty

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#85
Funnily enough, that would have been one of the very albums I would have been listening to daily at the time of the anecdote I posted.
We all were man! .. and Gong, System 7 and Floyd but only if someone's older brother was with us or something ..
 

cycleboy2

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#89
Check to all of the above.

Might include Tangerine Dream, Here & Now, Eat Static, Hawkwind and Roy Harper.
I've seen Hawkwind many a time, Ozric Tentacles when I worked at the Longacre Hall in Bath, Roy Harper when I was at uni and Steve Jolliffe of Tangerine Dream a few times, and I'll give my mushroom picking story later, which dates back to my first year at uni in 1981, UEA Norwich, not a million miles from Swiftyville, Norfolk...
 

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#90
There was a report in the Telegraph years ago of Cops raiding a New York appartment on an illegal drugs tip-off. Inside they found a group of senior and respected Academics stoned on Bufotoxin. Apparently the gentlemen had acquired some frogs from South America, scrapped the secretion off their back, dried and smoked it (for Research no doubt).
At the time Bufotoxin was not illegal, on account that it had not occurred to the Narcotics Agency that anyone would want to smoke frog sweat. The group was eventually charged however with the illegal import of an endangered species (the frogs).
In the good old days, the Telegraph was the most Fortean of the broadsheets and regularly reported on the questions we Readers wanted asked ie what was a Bufotoxin trip like ? According to one Lecturer sitting quietly in a corner, he was listening to the electrons in his brain jump up to a higher Valence shell and then decay back down as the Cops kicked the door in.
 
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