Hastening The End Of Rail Steam Traction?

[amyasleigh]

I've read a lot about the Leader. It could never have been more than a test-bed without major redesign, although the power bogies seem to have been reasonably successful.

Chapelon and Porta have demonstrated the necessary thermal cycles for a more efficient steam engine, but the actual physical layout would be more contentious, and cleanliness and ease of maintenance would factor in. Wood burning - maybe with pelletised wood - could be a lot cleaner.

Availability would need to be addressed - perhaps some kind of cassette system for ash disposal and obviously water treatment for the boiler. You'd want a loco that could run at least 18 hours in service a day without need to do more than top up coal and water.

Coal burning would presumably use some kind of mechanical stoker, and one assumes that we would, like Bulleid with the Leader, be aiming for one or two general purpose types rather than the plethora of designs that were produced even in BR days. I assume that electronic controls would obviate the need for the fireman to actually be at the firebox end of the boiler, so maybe something like a modernised Beyer-Garratt with cabs at the outer ends would do the job. Or perhaps the Leader with a conventional boiler, Chapelon/Porta steam cycle, and without the rather pointless cladding.

It could be done. Will it? I very much doubt it - another human failing is never looking back to see if abandoned ideas from the past could be developed further. Instead we get energy-wasteful nonsense like maglevs and monorails.

I muse on how, many things might be different in a future where the oil is exhausted -- perhaps less of a difficulty re the "dirty, nasty brute grunt labour" aspect of steam locomotives: no more oil and no more motor vehicles would likely mean fewer jobs, with more people chasing the jobs that there were, no matter how horrible... steam-loco cleaner perhaps preferable to 19th-century-type farm labourer? ... of course, operational and economic efficiency would be important factors vis-a-vis revived steam rail traction.

Re your last paragraph -- I'd tend to disagree a little. "When push comes to shove", humans are adaptable and pragmatic -- I see them as being able, in desperate circumstances, to look back at ideas from the past, if those might possibly help to get out of a current fix.

Monorails -- moving rather from the "serious" to the "entertainment" front, my favourite monorail, has to be the Listowel & Ballybunion line in Ireland. I wish I had any kind of clue about posting Internet links -- anyway, one can Google "Listowel & Ballybunion monorail", and get to the informative Wikipedia article about this outfit. A steam-worked "monorail" line (with supporting trestles and guide-rails either side of the single central rail) -- everything, including the locomotives, "twin-fashion" either side of the central rail. The whole thing very engaging, but, one has to feel, completely mad. Rather amazingly, this set-up operated from 1888 to 1924 -- might perhaps have lasted even longer, except that the line suffered severe damage in Ireland's "Troubles" in the early 1920s; and that Ireland's new Great Southern Railway -- set up to take over from the beginning of 1925, all railways solely within the Irish Free State -- refused (understandably, but one feels rather unsportingly) to have anything to do with this monorail-type lunacy.

 

[Cochise]

I believe a short length of the Listowel and Ballybunion has been recreated.

I love the story about transporting cows - the wagons had to have their weight approximately balanced either side of the trestle, so to ship a cow you put two calves on the other side of the wagon, then took the calves back one each side. Or so it is said

 

[amyasleigh]

One is inclined to think, "only in Ireland"; but the Listowel & Ballybunion nearly came to have a "clone" in central France -- from Feurs to Panissieres, not far from Lyon. The same "everything twin" steam monorail arrangement -- the invention of a gentleman named Lartigue. This French line was inaugurated around the turn of the 19th / 20th centuries -- constructed in fits-and-starts over a period of some years.

Trial runs were made, and the thing was photographed in the course of those; but the line never opened to public traffic. In one of these trials, the train was carrying a party of local notables come to view progress, when it unfortunately got derailed. After this happening, those concerned seemingly lost heart: the whole undertaking was "stillborn", and was dismantled and scrapped without ever opening in public service.

 

[rynner2]

On 10th April, the LNER Class A4 locomotive named Sir Nigel Gresley is scheduled to haul the Cathedrals Express to Exeter Kingswear. This particular locomotive holds the post-war steam record speed of 112 miles per hour.

The Cathedrals Express, hauled by Sir Nigel Gresley, is however expected to be the first steam train to visit Dawlish after the recent storm damage to Brunel’s iconic sea wall, though the trip depends on whether the major structural repairs will be completed on time.

A spokesman for Steam Dreams, the company which operates The Cathedrals Express, said that they are very hopeful that the journey will go ahead as planned.

http://www.eastleighnews.co.uk/2014/03/ ... sir-nigel/

I'm happy to report that this did happen today. It was featured on the local news, BBC Spotlight. It should be on iPlayer, soon, via
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006pfr1

And they had a fine day for it!

 

[rynner2]

No need for iPlayer: Video here:

Steam returns to reopened Dawlish track
10 April 2014 Last updated at 21:56 BST

The age of steam has returned to the coastal rail line at Dawlish.
Less than a week after the route reopened following the damage caused by February's storms, rail enthusiasts were out in force to welcome one of the best known steam locomotives.
The Sir Nigel Gresley travelled along the newly repaired track taking passengers down to Kingswear.

The line at Dawlish was left hanging in mid-air after severe storms ripped away supporting ballast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-26979522

View full screen!

 

[rynner2]

I guess this fits in here. The Padstow line has been a cycle track for many years now, but the old station may have to go too:

Safety fears for Padstow railway station

A north Cornwall town may lose its Victorian railway station building because of safety concerns, the local council has warned.
The building in Padstow has high levels of radon gas as well as a broken sewer and unsafe electrical wiring.
The town's council offices, which have been based in the building, are having to relocate in September.
Councillors said they would work with history groups in the town in an effort to save the building.

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-19366276

But now:

Threatened Padstow railway building future secured

For many years one of the most popular ways to travel to the North Cornwall resort of Padstow was by rail.
As well as bringing in carriages full of holidaymakers and day trippers, the Padstow line took fish from the harbour to various parts of the region.

The busy route even carried cattle at one time.
Charlie Watson Smyth, who farms in the area, said: "We always used to milk Ayrshire cows, and when we wanted replacements they came on the train from Ayrshire.
"They were unloaded at the Padstow station and then walked through the town up to our farm. It would be an interesting thing to see today."

However by the middle of the 1960s the railway line was one of the victims of Dr Beeching's hammer. Today all that remains is the station house and part of the platform.

John Buckingham, the president of Padstow's Old Cornwall Society, said: "It is special in many ways.
"I did travel on the old line. I'm an old Truro School boy and we used to go to school by rail.
"From here we'd go to Bodmin Road and then down to Truro and back again at half term.
"It was a very picturesque route. The section from Wadebridge to Padstow is fantastic just watching the Camel Estuary as it unfolds. It's beautiful. Today we can walk and cycle it."

Padstow's railway station was opened in 1899 by the London and South Western Railway (LSWR).
In its heyday Padstow's station was served by the Atlantic Coast Express, which was a direct service from London Waterloo.
The line finally closed in 1967.

The Railway Heritage Trust described the station building as "one of the last remaining relics of the Southern Railway in Cornwall".
Padstow Town Council made the station's building its home until September 2012, when staff had to relocate because of high levels of radon gas as well as a broken sewer and unsafe electrical wiring.
The council said at the time the future of the building was "very uncertain".

Mr Watson Smyth, who is also the chairman of the council said: "Three years ago we were having lots of problems with radon. They were four time higher than the recommended levels. We really had to move out.
"We were very worried that we would have to knock it down. We know from surveys that people did not want us to do that."

A newly refurbished car park stands where the railway line once lay.
Now the council is keen to give the railway's station building a facelift as well.
John Bealing, the lead member of the council's steering group, said: "The radon can be easily rectified now and the electrical problems.
"When we looked at it we thought the slate would have deteriorated. But our structural engineer said it was sound and could be redeveloped.

"We have ideas to relocate the town council and hopefully create an area for a museum. That's ultimately our aim. We've had talks with the museum in the town who are interested to be involved.
"With a phased approach we could build on the end to compliment [sic] the building for the future."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-27409448

 

[amyasleigh]

Glad, basically, to learn that the future looks positive for what remains of Padstow's railway station.

"We've been here before" in this thread: but while with my head, I perceive that what obtains now in those parts, gives wholesome pleasure to very many people, and is a positive thing; with my highly-bigoted railfan's gut, I feel that the best situation of all, would bloody well be to have railway track down all the way from Bodmin "Parkway" (once, Bodmin Road) to Padstow, plied over by regular public train services all the year round, and Padstow station carrying out its originally-intended purpose.

At any rate: once, when on holiday in the West Country in 1965, I travelled by train over the Bodmin Road -- Bodmin -- Wadebridge -- Padstow route; and no-one can take that from me.

 

[rynner2]

Atlantic Coast Express steam train marks anniversary
By Ed Goodridge, BBC South West

A steam train is making the journey from London to Cornwall later to mark the 50th anniversary of the last Atlantic Coast Express (ACE).
Between 1926 and 1964 the line ran from Waterloo to Ilfracombe, Bude, Padstow and Plymouth.
Friday's anniversary run will not be able to retrace the full route though as many of the lines in north Devon and Cornwall have since closed.

Three locomotives will share the journey from London to Penzance.
The Battle of Britain Class locomotive 34067 Tangmere will retrace the trip to Exeter, while the 5029 Nunney Castle & 34046 Braunton will share the Cornish leg of the journey.

According to the North Cornwall Railway website, a summer trip from Waterloo to Padstow in 1953 would leave at 10:35 BST and finally reach the Cornish resort at 17:00 BST.

The last ACE left Padstow in Cornwall on 5 September 1964.
By the middle of the 1960s the Padstow railway line was one of the victims of Dr Beeching's cuts.
[Video - brilliant!]
Today all that remains is the station house and part of the platform.

The organisers, Steam Dreams, hope crowds will line the route to catch a glimpse of the locomotives as they make their nostalgic journey.
The service left London Victoria at 08:43 BST and is expected to arrive at Penzance at 21.10 BST, calling at various stations along the way.

The four day visit to the region will include many of the branch lines still running, including, on Sunday, both the Falmouth and Newquay lines.

On 8 September, the ACE will retrace its steps from Penzance to Exeter, before finally heading back to London Waterloo.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-29067925

Links to timings on page.

 

[amyasleigh]

In July and August this year, First Great Western ran a standard-and-normal express train working daily between London Paddington and Newquay, with the official title of the "Atlantic Coast Express".

The title can't be quarrelled with on geographical grounds; but one can imagine, even today, passionate "Southern", as opposed to "Western", proponents re the long-lasting and sometimes bitter rivalry concerning rail linkage between the metropolis and Devon / Cornwall, involving the Great Western; and the Southern (previously London & South-Western) Railways; becoming apoplectic at the perceived almost-blasphemy of the "ACE" 's name being usurped by a train running over "Great Western" metals throughout, to a place never served by the much-lamented express with the dates 1926 -- 1964.

Hopefully, people who feel that way would be ready to give a pass to the described events, currently taking place; by reason of their historical / commemorative nature, and of the organisers' making sure of running over ex-"Southern" trackage where possible.

 

[rynner2]

If passionate proponents of long gone railway companies can take a deep breath and r-e-l-a-x, they might enjoy some of the 16 pics in the photo gallery:

http://www.westbriton.co.uk/pictures/GA ... tures.html

 

[Cochise]

And if they want to vent their spleen they'd be better off investigating the links between Beeching and Marples.

 

[amyasleigh]

If passionate proponents of long gone railway companies can take a deep breath and r-e-l-a-x, they might enjoy some of the 16 pics in the photo gallery:

http://www.westbriton.co.uk/pictures/GA ... tures.html

Splendid pictures; and I wasn't defending the "passionate proponents" on this scene -- basically, their antics amuse me. It is a fact, though, that some participants in various hobbies / avocations can get very het-up -- sometimes, almost homicidally so -- over perceivedly controversial issues (to any "outsider", amazingly trivial) associated with their particular "fancy". (More so, often, than about anything "real" like Cochise's cited Beeching / Marples links.)

Among British railway enthusiasts, the devotees of the Great Western Railway seem to tend particularly this way. When the film version of "Harry Potter" was first being made, it so worked out that preserved ex-GWR "Hall" class locomotive no. 5972, Olton Hall, was chosen to haul the Hogwarts Express. It's made clear in the books that the colour of the Hogwarts Express is red; and this is a thing which, seemingly, J.K. Rowling would absolutely not bend on, re the films. Some fanatical GWR-lovers were outraged at a GWR loco being painted red for a filming, or any, purpose; because the Great Western never, ever had a red loco -- their universal livery for passenger motive power, was Brunswick Green. Some of these characters truly felt that Olton Hall being painted red, however briefly, amounted to sacrilege.

(I understand that when the appropriate film-making person for choice of loco, was taken round the particular preserved-steam venue where Olton Hall was then housed, he instantly fell in love with it as the ideal motive power for the HE. Those in charge of the venue, foresaw hysterical anger from the Great-Western-extremist contingent, and tried to steer him toward a non-GW loco; but it was no good -- he knew the one that he wanted, "end-of".)

 

[Cochise]

I've never understood all the furore about what colour a working loco is painted. A museum exhibit, yes, I can see an issue if something is purporting to represent its , say 1900 condition and it is in the wrong colour for the period.

There is a wonderful quote by Tom Rolt, arguably the most influential person in the founding of 'working industrial preservation' (as opposed to mounting and stuffing things in museums), which I don't have to hand at the moment but which makes it clear he'd met more than enough of that kind of 'railway enthusiast' to last a lifetime.

 

[amyasleigh]

I just tend to feel -- people are bonkers, and very much given to over-the-top-ly angry controversy and quarrelling re stuff about subjects concerning which, they are passionate: and it often seems, the more ridiculously petty the issue, the greater the anger.

In a recent correspondence between us, a fellow-railway-enthusiast of mine (he and I both liking to feel that we are on the more sane end of that "fancy"), opined re those seen as on the other end of that scale: "...by and large all are harmless nutters who pay their taxes and by their nature tend not to over-reproduce. At least they don't mount crusades and jihads." (Though I sometimes suspect some railfans of wanting to mount same, against people in the hobby with whom they bitterly disagree...).

 

[rynner2]

I've probably posted on several threads about the old iron swingbridge at Hayle, which once carried the Hayle Railway over Copperhouse Creek.

I once understood that when the new Jubilee road bridge was finished (as it was, in 2012), the old bridge would be removed for renovation, as it's an early relic of the Industrial Revolution, but this week I learn that the renovation is to take place in situ.

Work has already started, stripping back the decking, planking, and iron ballast. All the components are numbered and stored in a compound by the HM's office. In the course of time, no doubt, everything will be cleaned, repaired, and repainted before final re-assmbly.

I'm on the case, clicking away with my little Nikon, and if I'm spared long enough there could be a new page or two on one or both of my websites!

(Other developments in Hayle I'm tracking are the construction of a new futuristic ASDA on South Quay, and repairs to a collapsed quayside, and the installation of new replica sluice gates at Carnsew pool.)

 

[rynner2]

I've probably posted on several threads about the old iron swingbridge at Hayle, which once carried the Hayle Railway over Copperhouse Creek.

I once understood that when the new Jubilee road bridge was finished (as it was, in 2012), the old bridge would be removed for renovation, as it's an early relic of the Industrial Revolution, but this week I learn that the renovation is to take place in situ.

Work has already started, stripping back the decking, planking, and iron ballast. All the components are numbered and stored in a compound by the HM's office. In the course of time, no doubt, everything will be cleaned, repaired, and repainted before final re-assembly.

Forgotten I'd posted this! The bridge disappeared for much of the winter, hidden under covers over a scaffolding framework. But recently it has reappeared, and most of the decking, planking and ballast has been finished and refitted.

I've got what photos I could, and when the renovation is complete I may put them online.

But I came here to say, the end of steam traction is not yet!

'Young' steam train driver qualifies on London-Surrey run

A 33-year-old man has become the youngest steam train driver to qualify on the mainline for nearly 50 years.
Jim Clarke "passed out" as a qualified driver after he drove the Belmond British Pullman from London Victoria to Guildford, Surrey.
It is believed he is the youngest person to qualify since 1968.
He was following in the footsteps of his father, Don Clarke, who started driving steam engines in the 1960s but is now retired.
Mr Clarke, from Haywards Heath, West Sussex, said he had been watching, listening and learning from his father who spent 49 years working on the railway.

Before setting off, Mr Clarke said: "A good few years of work has gone into it.
"Before, you have to be passed out as a fireman, work your time, be put forward for driving, go through the training and then hopefully today pass the driver's exam."

His father said: "We are very proud of him. It's something he's always wanted to do."
Explaining why he enjoyed driving steam trains, Mr Clarke Senior said: "You feel part of the machine and it's the sheer physical effort of what you put in to get the power out of the loco.
"It's quite satisfying if you've had a good run."

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32000416

More memories there - as a schoolboy, I sometimes went train-spotting on Guildford station, when steam trains were still common.

 

[amyasleigh]

rynner2 -- a heartening item. More-pessimistic railway enthusiasts of the generation (to which I belong) now in approx. late 60s / 70s (or more) -- i.e. basically the last generation who (in childhood / adolescence) knew steam in regular everyday service on Britain's national rail system, and therefrom fell in love with it -- often fear, and lament, that when their generation becomes too old / feeble / dead, to engage in voluntary steam-railway operation; there'll be no more steam railway operation, because steam will be meaningless to folk who grew up after its ceasing to be the everyday norm -- nobody in further generations, has got /will get the bug.

I'm maybe a Pollyanna here; but IMO, although there's some truth in the above doleful "take": there will for sure be fewer steam enthusiasts in future generations -- the steam locomotive is such an intrinsically delightful thing, that there'll still be some who have known it only in its preservation form, but who will have nonetheless got captivated, and want to learn how to operate it; so that the torch will be carried on into the future, to delight generations yet unborn. Jim Clarke, as above, was -- being aged 33 -- born way after he could have known meaningful everyday steam in Britain, even on restricted industrial lines; yet he's landed up interested enough, to learn how to drive a main-line steam loco.

I'd reckon it inevitable that with the reduction in numbers of steam devotees after end of steam "for real"; more than a few of Britain's current roll-call of preserved steam lines, will fold up and die. I'd like to hope, though, that a fair number -- hopefully the better ones of the bunch -- will retain enough interested workers / "armchair" supporters, to last for a long way into the future. Hope is seen here, from looking at this scene in the USA -- where everyday commercial steam (save for a very few localised "way-out-there" exceptions) came to an end nearly a decade earlier than it did in Britain. Nonetheless, there are throughout the States, many flourishing preserved steam rail operations -- on which most of the enthusiasts who keep them running, must be too young to have known and loved US everyday bread-and-butter steam.

(Guildford was outside of my personal "patch" in youth; but I got there in late 1966, time of the very "last knockings" of steam in those parts.)

 

[rynner2]

Flying Scotsman on London King's Cross to York run

One of the world's most famous locomotives has set off on its official return to the tracks.
The Flying Scotsman is making the journey from London King's Cross to York, where it will go on display at the National Railway Museum (NRM).

The engine, which was retired from service in 1963, has been restored for the NRM in a decade-long, £4.2m refit.
It departed King's Cross as scheduled at 07:40 GMT and is heading up the East Coast mainline on a non-stop run.
Crowds gathered at King's Cross and thousands are expected along the route, with many passengers paying up to £450 for a ticket to travel on the train.

NRM and Network Rail have urged fans to view the locomotive "from a safe vantage point".
In a joint statement, they said: "It is vital that spectators do not venture on to the railway as a full timetable of regular services will be running.
"In order to avoid overcrowding we are not publishing recommended viewing points or the timetable of when the train will be passing through specific locations.
"We wish those who are boarding Flying Scotsman on Thursday, or taking any other journey on board during the summer, an enjoyable experience."

The locomotive undertook a series of test runs through Cumbria and Lancashire earlier this year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-35653416

More stuff on page, including this live link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-35649676

 

[rynner2]

One of the best "Oh the Irony!" moments imaginable:
Flying Scotsman train spotter doesn't get view he imagined...
Ryan Allen drove for 50 miles and waited for over an hour to see the Flying Scotsman pass by, only for his view to be obscured at the crucial moment
[Video]
By Telegraph Video, video source Twitter/Ryan Allen
12:33PM GMT 25 Feb 2016

Thousands of people lined bridges and stations along the East Coast Main Line today to see the inaugural journey of the Flying Scotsman.
The locomotive travelled from Kings Cross station to York following a decade-long, £4.2million refit.

Ryan Allen, from South Yorkshire, was one of the many who waited for hours to see the iconic train.
After driving 50 miles from his home, he parked near the railtrack at Little Bytham in Lincolnshire to get a good view of the Flying Scotsman passing by.
But after waiting 40 minutes, his effort was not rewarded when a Virgin train obscured the view of the locomotive at the crucial moment.

"I had a feeling this would happen!", Ryan wrote online when he posted the clip on Twitter.
He later told The Telegraph: "I wanted to see it as I knew I wouldn't get many chances to see it other than in the museum."

etc...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...n-spotter-doesnt-get-view-he-imagined....html

 

[amyasleigh]

Re the luckless Mr. Allen: as per his resigned comment, railway enthusiasts usually accept that as things are nowadays -- without regular timetabled steam working involving many trains day in and day out, as in the good old times -- such misfortunes happen. It imparts something of a "Russian Roulette" flavour to this branch of the hobby.

I was in something of a similar situation a couple of years ago. I and a relative were walking along the towpath of the Kennet & Avon Canal east of Newbury -- closely paralleled by the main line from London to the West Country. This one wasn't a big deal: basically we were just taking a walk -- knew that there was a steam special due along that stretch roughly at that time, but feeling was, "if we happen to see it, fine; if we don't, then not a calamity." It so happened that the steam special ran across a bridge over the waterway, just a short distance in front of us -- but we had observed its loco for only a couple of seconds, when a modern diesel-powered express train showed up running in the opposite direction, on the track nearer to us; and thenceforth completely concealed the steam loco and its coaches. Stuff which takes place, and is unavoidable: the devotees have to be philosophical about it, or else some anyway, would become suicidal !

 

[eburacum]

Heh- I nearly saw Scotsman myself the other day, but I got called away by a phonecall. I first saw this loco back in '68, when it was the only steam loco allowed on mainline metals, so it would have been nice to see it again - but I'm sure I'll see it again fairly soon. Last time I saw it it was half-dismantled in the NRM.

 

[rynner2]

Here's a line I hadn't heard of before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynton_and_Barnstaple_Railway

But it closed down in 1935, so it wasn't around when I lived in North Devon.
But a short stretch was reopened in 2004, and now there are plans to extend it even further.

BBC TV's Spotlight SW had a piece on it. It looks very attractive, and will run through very scenic parts of Exmoor.
It should prove very popular, and I wish it well.

 

[amyasleigh]

Here's a line I hadn't heard of before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynton_and_Barnstaple_Railway

But it closed down in 1935, so it wasn't around when I lived in North Devon.
But a short stretch was reopened in 2004, and now there are plans to extend it even further.

BBC TV's Spotlight SW had a piece on it. It looks very attractive, and will run through very scenic parts of Exmoor.
It should prove very popular, and I wish it well.

I'm afraid I don't wish this undertaking well; and have sworn to boycott it lifelong. Will admit that on this matter, I'm a miserable purist killjoy bastard -- that is "my issue, and I own it", as the psychobabble-merchants say: am not passing judgement on anyone whose feelings re the "new" L&BR, are positive.

My sentiments are just: this railway (and others which were, sadly, abandoned long ago) was /were delightful -- but they were, "way back", judged useless, and abandoned, track torn up, locos and rolling stock scrapped / dispersed / whatever. Sad; but in my view, "that was it -- RIP". Attempts many decades later, to reinstate anew, parts (usually, all that it can be) of whichever line: seem to me as artificial and phoney as the proverbial nine-bob note, and turn my stomach. My sentiments: for God's sake, it's dead and done ! Necrophilia is on the whole, generally considered not a good thing !

I'm not fully consistent here: the revival in fairly-recent years of the Welsh Highland Railway (fl. in its previous form, 1923 -- 1937) long had me feeling dubious and not-friendly; but have travelled on same and, rather grudgingly, considered it good in its own right. Will admit to not expecting to feel heartbroken if it should in the future fail, and close down.

Wish that I weren't such a miserable sod about this issue: but it's how I strongly feel, I fear.

 

[eburacum]

I really enjoyed my trip on the Welsh Highland Railway- it's fairly authentic compared to (say) the Brecon Mountains railway or the Kirklees Light railway. The best bit of the WLR was seeing the Snowdon Mountain Railway on the skyline.

 

[amyasleigh]

I really enjoyed my trip on the Welsh Highland Railway- it's fairly authentic compared to (say) the Brecon Mountains railway or the Kirklees Light railway. The best bit of the WLR was seeing the Snowdon Mountain Railway on the skyline.

Looked at just as itself, in its own right -- I agree that the present-day Welsh Highland is a pretty splendid thing: and yes, seeing the SMR on it "from down below", is a delight. It's just on a point of principle, that I experience qualms about it.

Must confess that the Kirklees Light Railway had barely been on my radar: recognised the name, but remembered nothing about it, save that it was vaguely "up north". Had to Google the outfit... finding that it's 3+ miles long, 15in. gauge, with locos of "classic narrow-gauge" configuration as opposed to miniaturised express types -- in fact, it strikes me as rather appealing. Somehow, miniature-gauge lines built on the formation of old standard-gauge routes, I can live with, more than 2ft gauge ditto (such as the Brecon Mountain, as you mention). With the 15in. gauge scenario, I can accept that it's basically silly and frivolous and doesn't pretend or claim otherwise, or to be a "real" railway; and find that OK. My feeling thus, about this whole issue, is for sure not logical or rational: but feelings don't have to be about logic or rationality.

 

[Cochise]

I really enjoyed my trip on the Welsh Highland Railway- it's fairly authentic compared to (say) the Brecon Mountains railway or the Kirklees Light railway. The best bit of the WLR was seeing the Snowdon Mountain Railway on the skyline.

The WHR is dear to my heart - I live in sight of it, I volunteer on it, I walked the formation back in the 70's, I've even camped on it, and I'm constantly amazed that the whole route got reinstated. But it is run very much as a tourist railway, not a heritage railway, and that is the way I approach it - big engines and long trains are needed to make it viable.

It's a fortunate happenstance that physical limits have so far prevented a sufficiently powerful diesel loco being designed - so we have real hard-working steam.

 

[rynner2]

Oddly, the Daily Telegraph Lifestyle Cars section has this long and fascinating article:

The Flying Scotsman review: should we have stuck with steam?
Andrew English
25 December 2016 • 7:37am

Sharp edges and clanging steel, scalding pipes and oily underfoot, steam curling gently from a valve, an ear-piercing shriek, and the firebox; a hellish molten ocean raked over by tiny red daemons. Even at a standstill, the footplate of 4472 The Flying Scotsman is just the place to put yourself in harm's way.

Noel Hartley, driver and National Railway Museum (NRM) operations manager, checks his pocket watch and gives a tug at the regulator lever. Two minutes to go and the 8.05 Severn Valley Railway Kidderminster-to-Bridgnorth service is filled. Immaculately uniformed station staff have corralled a not-so uniformly immaculate public into the carriages. Station master Geoff Smith, as twinkly and whiskery as a water vole, has given his wave, Noel grasps the regulator and...

Ah yes, how to start a locomotive.

etc...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/flying-scotsman-review-should-have-stuck-steam/

Lovingly described, and full of enough technical detail to give steam fans an orgasm, this read is almost as good as traveling on the train - enjoy!

 

[amyasleigh]

The above-linked article: splendid journalistic "fustian" (that epithet meant at least part-approvingly). The headline part "Should we have stuck with steam?" -- one takes it, a rhetorical question. Speaking as a passionate lover of the steam locomotive: on aesthetic grounds, yes; on the very great majority of other grounds once more efficient modes of rail traction were invented -- one has to admit, no; unless in very special and unusual circumstances.

The issue of "is it really preservation, if virtually every part of the machine has been replaced / renewed from what made it up at its original construction?" -- I fall in with the thoughts, expressed decades ago, of the preservers of the narrow-gauge lines in North Wales -- to the effect that similarly to the bodies of living creatures: machines change and renew their physical make-up, as parts wear out; but the as-from-the-first identity, remains. ("As with William the Conqueror's penknife, which still takes properly its place in the museum, notwithstanding having had since 1066, four new blades and three new handles.")

Most railway enthusiasts / preservationists take, so far as I understand, the above "sensible" line: however, I have a friend -- as keen a railway / steam / preservation enthusiast as myself -- who feels that an item cannot really count as truly preserved-and-the-same, if it includes none of its original physical constituents; and who feels greater awe in the rare situation of presence of a railway item which does -- or may -- still include something of what it did when first made. This friend of mine is, admittedly, something of a "professional contrarian" -- I'd be willing to bet that if most of preservation-dom felt on this matter, the way that he does; he would be a keen protagonist of the "Will the Conq's penknife theory".

 

[Cochise]

The above-linked article: splendid journalistic "fustian" (that epithet meant at least part-approvingly). The headline part "Should we have stuck with steam?" -- one takes it, a rhetorical question. Speaking as a passionate lover of the steam locomotive: on aesthetic grounds, yes; on the very great majority of other grounds once more efficient modes of rail traction were invented -- one has to admit, no; unless in very special and unusual circumstances.

The issue of "is it really preservation, if virtually every part of the machine has been replaced / renewed from what made it up at its original construction?" -- I fall in with the thoughts, expressed decades ago, of the preservers of the narrow-gauge lines in North Wales -- to the effect that similarly to the bodies of living creatures: machines change and renew their physical make-up, as parts wear out; but the as-from-the-first identity, remains. ("As with William the Conqueror's penknife, which still takes properly its place in the museum, notwithstanding having had since 1066, four new blades and three new handles.")

Most railway enthusiasts / preservationists take, so far as I understand, the above "sensible" line: however, I have a friend -- as keen a railway / steam / preservation enthusiast as myself -- who feels that an item cannot really count as truly preserved-and-the-same, if it includes none of its original physical constituents; and who feels greater awe in the rare situation of presence of a railway item which does -- or may -- still include something of what it did when first made. This friend of mine is, admittedly, something of a "professional contrarian" -- I'd be willing to bet that if most of preservation-dom felt on this matter, the way that he does; he would be a keen protagonist of the "Will the Conq's penknife theory".

I have a Janus attitude to this. Items which have been preserved as non-working artefacts in either their 'last working' condition or 'as restored by the railway company' should, in my view, be kept as-is unless there are extremely strong arguments otherwise . 'I have never seen Gladstone / the Spinner / whatever in steam' is not a good argument. We need some things stuffed and mounted so future generations can study the assembly methods, materials etc. of which they are made - and which in some cases for various reasons we could no longer reproduce.

But working engines, or scrapyard condition engines - do whatever it takes to make them or keep them in running condition, short of putting a lorry engine in the back.

edit: Obviously I do not rule out compromise - the people who look after Lilla on the Festiniog are a case in point - they do intend to keep her running, but they go to considerable (and uneconomic) lengths to keep her pre-preservation character, for example she still carries her much patched original saddle tank which is re-patched as necessary.

 

[Peripart]

In connection with the last few posts, I know of some steam enthusiasts who absolutely detest Tornado, the steam locomotive built from scratch a few years ago. To them, this recreation of an LNER A1 is fake and loathsome, an abomination to the world of steam.

Me, I quite like the new loco, as an example of engineering excellence which actually goes to make the older engines seem somehow more relevant.

"Will the Conq's penknife"? Trigger's broom, is it?