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Hot Dogs, Sandwiches, Cereal & Soup

Is Cereal a Soup?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 100.0%
  • Other - Please specify

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    27
I expect a country with such a rich culinary heritage to have many more words for 'soup', such as Le Broth and La Stew.
Sacré bleu! Throughout my entire temps ecole, we were made tres certainement that le potage was the only soup de la maison.

I feel as if a whole chunk of my school experience was based upon a lie. My teachers must've all been a right pile of croutons.
 
I'm with James. Anything in a bun is not a sandwich and that includes a hot dog. A sandwich is made up of sliced bread.


Breakfast cereal isn't soup but I can't explain why, it just isn't. It's like trying to describe dark matter.
But a hotdog bun is sliced bread. It's just not sliced all the way through, in the same manner as the sub sandwich.
 
Sacré bleu! Throughout my entire temps ecole, we were made tres certainement that le potage was the only soup de la maison.

I feel as if a whole chunk of my school experience was based upon a lie. My teachers must've all been a right pile of croutons.
I suppose there wouldn't have been much mileage (kilometreage?) in only teaching you French words that happened to look like the English ones? Better to learn "potage", and then be pleasantly surprised when a French Waiter enquires which soup monsieur voulez.

As for the question, I can't have cereal being a soup, but I can definitely see my way to considering a hotdog a sandwich. To me, rolls, baguettes, cobs, batches and subs are all just variations on the sandwich theme!
 
But a hotdog bun is sliced bread. It's just not sliced all the way through, in the same manner as the sub sandwich.

Well technically I'd say a bun is halfway to cake and not generally what you'd get a hotdog in.

The bacon roll is clearly related to the hot dog. A bacon roll and a bacon sandwich aren't the same thing. (In the same way a cheese baguette isn't the same thing as a cheese sandwich.)

I think you've summed it up concisely. The sandwich is a different animal to the roll. A burger would normally be served in a roll not a sandwich.

Although it's contents are sandwiched between a type of bread.
 
Do we have a consensus forming?

As this thread has progressed (? ...) I've come to suspect any consensus will have to be contextualized with respect to, and extend no further than, any agreeing parties' commonality of location and associated terminological habits.
 
As this thread has progressed (? ...) I've come to suspect any consensus will have to be contextualized with respect to, and extend no further than, any agreeing parties' commonality of location and associated terminological habits.
As this thread has progressed it's also made me hungry when I see 'hot dogs' written in the title every day ... ;)
 
What about a sausage roll? If a foreigner ordered a sausage roll they would rightly expect sausages....in a roll. Not in an open-ended pastry jacket.
 
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What about a sausage roll? . If a foreigner ordered a sausage roll they would rightly expect sausages....in a roll. Not in an open-ended pastry jacket.
Good point .. and not everyone calls a rounded bit of baked bread a 'roll' .. depending on where you live, it's also a 'bap' or a 'bun' .. this regional pedantic description has caused me problems in the past so I've learned to specifically describe what I want my bacon or what not to be inside when ordering it around the country ..
 
It's a minefield isn't it? over which you have to step lightly.

I think you've hit upon the anomaly that is the sausage roll, which can exist in two states.
 
Soupe ou potage? That bemuses even the french themselves, don't worry. Here is, translated courtesy to Google, I'm lazy today, the meaning of the two words:

Soup: Broth of vegetables, meats, etc., usually not passed and accompanied by bread or vermicelli, served at the beginning of the meal or in a single dish. Soup: More or less liquid preparation of boiled food (vegetables, meat, etc.), in pieces or past, usually used hot, with or without vermicelli, at the beginning of the dinner.

Soup (ie Potage) : More or less liquid preparation of boiled food (vegetables, meat, etc.), in pieces or past, usually used hot, with or without vermicelli, at the beginning of the dinner.

Oh, and we've got an other word, velouté
A velouté is the French term for a soup traditionally thickened with egg yolks, butter and cream, though it is now also used loosely to refer to soups that are thickened exclusively with butter and/or cream.

As DavidPlankton said...
 
Put through the Google mill, passée comes out two ways as passed and past!

I associated velouté with sauces but I can see a soup along those lines might make a fine, rich start to the meal.

All that butter and cream in the tureen suggests a very traditional household! :)
 
Remember all that fuss when Ed Miliband tried to eat a bacon sandwich? And then David Cameron ate a hot dog with a knife and fork?
 
What about a sausage roll? . If a foreigner ordered a sausage roll they would rightly expect sausages....in a roll.
Au contraire. What about a Swiss roll? A Swisser/Schweizer in a roll?

Not in an open-ended pastry jacket.
Heavens to Murgatroyd... there's one just rolled-in
2016-12-09 19.55.02.png


hunck said:
I think you've hit upon the anomaly that is the sausage roll, which can exist in two states.
Yeah, but, no, but, yeah....there are many states (well, a few)
a 'morning roll' (bap) containing a sausage is called a "roll'n'sausage". Certainly in Scotland..

And lorne sausage is called 'square sausage on a roll'
 
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Forget the bread, that's not the determining factor.

Taxonomy is where it'll be decided.

...Sandwiches, are a 'Wastebasket taxon', into which are placed any generally, if not exclusively, diurnal food stuff principally defined by a doughy exoskeleton. While the Weinnerids, hot dogs, wurtzels and false wurtzels are firmly rooted in the wider burger family the Teresimorphia or Minceoformes. Their exact phylogeny however has traditionally been problematically enigmatic. Most contentious has been their occasional inclusion in the Hesperoteresians or true burgers. An alternate proposal has been that they form the polyphyletic sister clade to Hesperoteresia, the Teresidermiads.

All extant true burgers are firmly rooted in the crown group Hesperoteresia whose most basal member is the immediate descendant of, but not including, Steak Tartare (Teres mongoliensis) which arrived in Western Europe from central Asia in the late Holocene.

There certainly were Teresimorphids in Western Europe already at this time, the koftids, rissoles, true pasties, Farcimenopmorphia (true and pseudo sausages), terrines, polpetturyids, including the Scandinavian meatball (Polpettis borealis) and the indigenous British meatball (Faggot faggot) being already well established.

However, like the extinct Mediterranean Isicia omentata, these are all non ancestral forms to the Hesperoteresians and, with the exception of the outlying Farcimenoformes, form a monophyletic group known as the false burgers or Pseudoteresinidae.

While there is firm indication that Weinnerids share strong affinities with Hesperoteresia, their distinct gross morphological similarity to the true Farcimeninae has always been problematic, most especially the sharing a conspicuous dermis, a feature otherwise unknown in any other Teresimorph.

Thus fine phylogentic inference reinforces the view that the Weinneridae represents a monophyletic subdivision within Hesperoteresia is not well supported. And that the otherwise novel features exhibited in Weinnerids and Fascimeninae are not explainable in terms of coincidental phenotypic homoplasy.

Instead it is proposed that the Weinnerids form a distinct polyphyletic group and sister taxa to the true burgers, Stemming from a probable hybridisation event between the proposed most basal Hesperoteresid Teres hiedelbergensis and an as yet unidentified Farcimenoform, where information and material was transported across the dermis....
 
Lorne Sausage has been discussed on the board in the past, I think. I remembered it as a ghastly slab of lard I once plucked out of the freezer, when I was short of funds. It exists still!

Others suggested that this was a blasphemous appropriation of the name and that there was a real square sausage of the Lorne ilk which deserves a place in gastronomic heaven. That one I have never had, alas. :huh:
 
I've just phoned The Earl Of Sandwich and he hasn't got the foggiest about what any of you are babbling on about. He says he just stuck some of his dinner between two slices of bread because he was 'off on one' that day .. and so invented the sandwich by accident ..

.. then started this up apparently ..

http://www.earlofsandwich.co.uk/
 
@oldrover are there indications that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny anywhere across the broad genera of sandwichoids?

If polyphly is demonstrated within most descendant lines of the ancestral phenotype (i.e. any phylogenetic analysis demonstrates buttered slice varient monophyly for validity as a separate lineage through a convergently-evolved snack eg Cornish pasties) then any attempts to cut off crusts or toast unfresh bread will end in tears.
 
No, ontogeny can't lead to any inference on phylogeny in a Wastebasket taxa. It's too diverse.

Admittedly though, with further examination a certain amount of reticulation (as per the Weinnerids an Facemineridae [earlier incorrectly termed Faceminormorphs]) is I suppose statically likely, if not inevitable in such a entangled group. Until exact relationships are determined, any extended phylogentic research will be plagued by convergence.

Simple parsimony alone is going to dictate a wholesale systematic examination of all taxa concerned. Until then detecting a useful degree of synapomorphy, is I think unlikely. In fact I think any attempt to do so may only muddy the water.

Cornish pasties (Fouedo cournubia) lie outside both the Teresimorphs, and the sandwiches. But do indeed show some closer affinities to the latter. They remain an interesting, and are perhaps the modern group demonstrating the greatest degree of anagenesis if not outright stasis.

So broadly yes. But, with some reservations.
 
An impressive post by oldrover.

Sadly, I didn't understand one word! :p

(Must be my dementia kicking in...)
Quick Rynn, we haven't got much time left .. the definition of 'dick and fart jokes' .. by all means be childish but also know when not to be childish ... it's an art form ..

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dick and fart jokes

... but this is Jay and Silent Bob on the other end of the spectrum recreating 'that' part from Silence Of The Lambs when that psycho, Buffalo Bill does this .........


The original scene for side to side comparison ..

 
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I suppose next someone will be claiming fish fingers are a kind of sandwich.
 
One of the above links claimed Oreo Cookies as a sandwich - insanity.
 
One of the above links claimed Oreo Cookies as a sandwich - insanity.
It is a sandwiched construct (in nearly the same sense as a proper BEng degree course is) but neither are A sandwich.

There's been an unforgivable culinary conflation, here, that's given me much food for thought.

(Note to self in the future: can we blame the Americans? For this terminological indeterminancy? Discuss with planning team during the weekend morning meetings. (Burning that damn library was never a good strategy.....)

nb briefing paper for the PM to be ready in the AM to prepare them for that meeting with the FMs the following PM

ps remember to order sand wedges....this is turning into a whole new ballgame
 
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