The Roswell Incident [1947]

[BS3]

l

Continuing with the above, purported statement, from Loretta Proctor:

"He described the other material back there. He said it was like an aluminum-type material that looked like aluminum foil and when you'd crush it it would straighten back out. It wouldn't wrinkle. He described some kind of tape..."

So... the spaceship is in trouble and they get out some sticky tape...?

Maybe we have seen enough here and it's all now untenable....?

The debris sounds exactly like Mogul radar reflectors (sticks, tape, foil etc) along with the neoprene balloon remnants, which after two weeks under the New Mexico sun had turned into blackened, unpleasant-smelling 'cowpats'. Note that I think the foil might have been 'metallized' fabric, a relatively new and unfamiliar material at the time.

Brazel didn't know what it was and it certainly wasn't like the radiosonde balloons he'd found before. He thought it might be one of these 'flying disc' things (with only the vaguest idea what a 'disc' might be; possibly an enemy spy device).

He told this to Marcel who jumped at the 'flying disc' angle and didn't think of a Mogul balloon either - because they were a secret project. Marcel and Haut jumped the gun on a press release - possibly rashly signed off by Blanchard - and everything went off to Fort Worth. At this point the hares were running.

At Fort Worth, Ramey very sensibly gets his meteorological expert to look at the debris; he confirms it's a balloon. At this point someone finally realises that the debris in fact relates to someone's secret project, rather than to a normal weather balloon, enemy weapon, spacecraft etc and suddenly there is an awful lot of frenzied activity to stop the press coverage inadvertently revealing anything - hence the initial, somewhat unconvincing 'weather balloon' story. Marcel is embarrassed - having very quickly gone from being the "hero of the hour" to a "boob", as Printy phrases it - and it is pretty much career ending for Haut.

I think the above basic scenario not only explains most core participants' recollections, it also, more importantly, explains their actions (including years later, when eager ufologists came calling).

While you can find plenty of peripheral witnesses who claim that there was something strange going on, it's fair to say there are also others (Cavitt; the photographer in Ft Worth, etc, etc) who thought it was a nothingburger from the start.

 

[eburacum]

During the interview in his Broadway laboratory today, Mr. Wright recalled his visit to England in 1913 and a discussion with Lord Northeliffe, powerful British newspaper publisher.
"Lord Northecliffe admitted when I twitted him about the dirigible reports...".
(End)
Was there possibly some kind of time-warp and that explains a lot?

Twitting isn't quite the same as tweeting, as you probably know. Twitting (v) is to tease or taunt (someone), especially in a good-humoured way. This can be performed face to face, or via any media, including print.

Tweeting is an act of communication via electronic social media, unavailable to Lord Northcliffe in this era.

Note that it is possible to twit someone via tweet.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Note that it is possible to twit someone via tweet.

Not a Twitter myself - I presume you can Tweet a twit on Twitter and the twit can Tweet back?



When is the last time any of us wrote a letter...

Personally, I genuinely can't remember.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

I think the above basic scenario not only explains most core participants' recollections, it also, more importantly, explains their actions (including years later, when eager ufologists came calling).

It's infinitely less of a case with 'hard core' evidence than I realised, until these discussions.

I did not fully appreciate that the debris photographs are accepted as genuine, whilst also categorically exhibiting elemental evidence of long-established extraterrestrial visitation and its resultant, equally long-standing 'cover-up'.

Conclusions, are, as always an individual interpretation.

 

[BS3]

It's infinitely less of a case with 'hard core' evidence than I realised, until these discussions.

I did not fully appreciate that the debris photographs are accepted as genuine, whilst also categorically exhibiting elemental evidence of long-established extraterrestrial visitation and its resultant, equally long-standing 'cover-up'.

Conclusions, are, as always an individual interpretation.

I think it was probably recollection of the intense embarrassment Marcel no doubt felt, as well as the chance to once again position himself at the centre of something big, that later led him into such dubious positions as the debris being switched, or, most ridiculous of all, the suggestion that the "real" debris was in shot but deliberately covered up by a sheet of paper.

It reminds me a bit of the actions of another American officer, this time in relation to events in 1980 in Suffolk...

The photographer recalled taking the debris out of their wrapper and arranging them on the floor so any opportunity for a switch or other bit of sleight of hand was minimal.

I think it may possibly be the case that the most interesting looking of the debris got moved onto the second plane at Ft Worth rather than ending up on Ramey's office floor, but no doubt if anyone already had an inkling this was wreckage from a recent experimental project, or even might be parts of a Russian spying device, it's quite understandable they'd want to keep most of it out of way of the press.

I really can't see the US military happily plastering shots of their latest atomic test-detector across even domestic papers, let alone revealing the location of where bits of it might be found. So the rapid 'cover up' makes perfect sense. Marcel and Haut had really created a difficult situation.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

The photographer recalled taking the debris out of their wrapper and arranging them on the floor so any opportunity for a switch or other bit of sleight of hand was minimal.

What an important point that is.

Just wondering if I might throw this into the mix - simply as part of the historical record and maybe fascinating?

The Roswell Report
USAF, 1995

"Similarly, it has also been alleged that General Hoyt Vandenberg, Deputy Chief of Staff at the time, had been involved directing activity regarding events at Roswell. Activity reports (Atch 15), located in General Vandenberg’s personal papers stored in the Library of Congress, did indicate that on July 7, he was busy with a ”flying disc” incident; however this particular incident involved Ellington Field, Texas and the Spokane (Washington) Depot. After much discussion and information gathering on this incident, it was learned to be a hoax. There is no similar mention of his personal interest or involvement in Roswell events except in the newspapers"
(End)


'The San Francisco Examiner'
9 July, 1947

Flying Disc Found By Air Corps Only A Weather Balloon

Discovery Turns Out to Be Radar Reflector
By DICK PEARCE

The Army Air Forces sent a shiver of excitement across a saucers-conscious Nation yesterday with the announcement that an actual flying disc had been found near the cradle of the atomic bomb in New Mexico.

Not until three hours later did the saucer shatter on the rock of hard fact. It was the box kite radar reflector of a weather and made definite identification. balloon.

But while the mistake lasted, it was a honey.

The first sober announcement of the discovery was made by the Roswell, N. Mex., Army Air Field. It said definitely that "the many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday, and went on to declare that the disc had been found on a ranch near Roswell.

Roswell refused to give any more details, saying only that the disc had been rushed along to higher beadquarters.

Roswell's announcement sent high brass from coast to coast scurrying to telephones for more information.

Lt. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, deputy chief of the AAF, hurried to the AAF press section in Washington and personally took charge as newspapers and wire services clamored for details.

Within an hour telephone lines Into sparse New Mexico were Jammed. Three London newspapers called Sheriff George Wilcox at Roswell, together with "every big newspaper in the United States, the radio networks and others."

(The Examiner did not call Sheriff Wilcox. Surmising that the find had been flown to Brig. Gen. Roger M. Ramey, commanding general of the Eighth Air Force at Fort Worth, Tex., The Examiner telephoned him.

(First to reach him, The Examiner got a complete description of the "disc" from him, together with his expressed suspicion that it was just part of a weather balloon. His description tallied with that of radar reflectors sent up with weather balloons every day at Oakland.

(As a result The Examiner was able to give a prosaic name to the Army's saucer long before the Army itself corrected the boner of its public relations officer at Roswell.)

A weather officer attached to the base weather station at Fort Worth finally was called in, took one look at the tangled mess of aluminum foil, strings and wood and made definite identification. Plans to fly it to the AAF laboratories at Wright Field, Day. ton, Ohio, were abandoned promptly.

General Ramey went on the radio to quiet the furor. While he was at it, he threw in this disavowal:

"There is no such gadget (as the disc) known to the Army - at least this far down the line"."
(End)

Landmark quote from Ramey, himself?

 

[BS3]

What an important point that is.

Just wondering if I might throw this into the mix - simply as part of the historical record and maybe fascinating?

The Roswell Report
USAF, 1995

"Similarly, it has also been alleged that General Hoyt Vandenberg, Deputy Chief of Staff at the time, had been involved directing activity regarding events at Roswell. Activity reports (Atch 15), located in General Vandenberg’s personal papers stored in the Library of Congress, did indicate that on July 7, he was busy with a ”flying disc” incident; however this particular incident involved Ellington Field, Texas and the Spokane (Washington) Depot. After much discussion and information gathering on this incident, it was learned to be a hoax. There is no similar mention of his personal interest or involvement in Roswell events except in the newspapers"
(End)


'The San Francisco Examiner'
9 July, 1947

Flying Disc Found By Air Corps Only A Weather Balloon

Discovery Turns Out to Be Radar Reflector
By DICK PEARCE

The Army Air Forces sent a shiver of excitement across a saucers-conscious Nation yesterday with the announcement that an actual flying disc had been found near the cradle of the atomic bomb in New Mexico.

Not until three hours later did the saucer shatter on the rock of hard fact. It was the box kite radar reflector of a weather and made definite identification. balloon.

But while the mistake lasted, it was a honey.

The first sober announcement of the discovery was made by the Roswell, N. Mex., Army Air Field. It said definitely that "the many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday, and went on to declare that the disc had been found on a ranch near Roswell.

Roswell refused to give any more details, saying only that the disc had been rushed along to higher beadquarters.

Roswell's announcement sent high brass from coast to coast scurrying to telephones for more information.

Lt. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, deputy chief of the AAF, hurried to the AAF press section in Washington and personally took charge as newspapers and wire services clamored for details.

Within an hour telephone lines Into sparse New Mexico were Jammed. Three London newspapers called Sheriff George Wilcox at Roswell, together with "every big newspaper in the United States, the radio networks and others."

(The Examiner did not call Sheriff Wilcox. Surmising that the find had been flown to Brig. Gen. Roger M. Ramey, commanding general of the Eighth Air Force at Fort Worth, Tex., The Examiner telephoned him.

(First to reach him, The Examiner got a complete description of the "disc" from him, together with his expressed suspicion that it was just part of a weather balloon. His description tallied with that of radar reflectors sent up with weather balloons every day at Oakland.

(As a result The Examiner was able to give a prosaic name to the Army's saucer long before the Army itself corrected the boner of its public relations officer at Roswell.)

A weather officer attached to the base weather station at Fort Worth finally was called in, took one look at the tangled mess of aluminum foil, strings and wood and made definite identification. Plans to fly it to the AAF laboratories at Wright Field, Day. ton, Ohio, were abandoned promptly.

General Ramey went on the radio to quiet the furor. While he was at it, he threw in this disavowal:

"There is no such gadget (as the disc) known to the Army - at least this far down the line"."
(End)

Landmark quote from Ramey, himself?

With the existence of this kind of source as soon as two days after the story broke, you have to wonder why Roswell ever became a serious 'case' again. For most of the 50s and 60s it had been quite rightly filed with Maury Island and the like.

Perhaps by the post-Watergate period there was an increased willingness to believe the government would engage in a fundamentally ignoble cover-up, rather than merely protect national security. That might have opened the door to tales such as Roswell.

Incidentally most of the participants' recollections, including those of people who thought the debris was mundane, suggested that the material was actually flown to Wright Field, contrary to the newspaper report. Do we here have one very small cover-up, at least?

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Perhaps by the post-Watergate period there was an increased willingness to believe the government would engage in a fundamentally ignoble cover-up,

You are bringing up a an intrinsic issue and one I have personally been trying to set in context during recent months.

When did assertions of the 'aliens visiting' cover-up begin and why?

 

[EnolaGaia]

... When did assertions of the 'aliens visiting' cover-up begin and why?

I'm not sure whether you're asking with respect to the context of Roswell / New Mexico in the late 1940s or any / ever.

I don't know whether this is the first occurrence of the "aliens are here; cover it up" meta-meme, but I would nominate the Aztec crash hoax as a good place along the timeline to insert a stick pin to designate a search's starting point. The next step would be to search for any earlier candidates.

Newton and Grebauer alleged the crash occurred in March 1948. Their story first received national distribution in Frank Scully's magazine articles in 1949.

The Aztec story was the earliest published story I recall that involved alien (seemingly non-human) corpses discovered along with an actual 'saucer', military retrieval of remains and wreckage, accusations of deliberate military / government cover-up, and (if only eventually) allusions of some connection with the Roswell incident. This full set of story elements wasn't reflected in the Roswell documents at the time (1947).

The other two saucer crash / alien bodies accounts associated (however loosely) with Roswell - involving the alternate Corona and the Plains of San Agustin sites - didn't surface until years later.

 

[eburacum]

http://newtolasvegas.com/2019/06/03/far-from-las-vegas-ufo-mania-began-with-bogus-roswell-incident/

 

[Comfortably Numb]

I'm not sure whether you're asking with respect to the context of Roswell / New Mexico in the late 1940s or any / ever.

I meant and should have clarified, that the question was with regard to the issue in general, however, your interesting perspective actually leads to something I had no considered - anything related which existed before the seminal 24 June, 1947, Kenneth Arnold incident.

Following the publicity of same and rapid qrowth of 'anomalous' objects being seen in the skies,
there were certainly suspicions voiced in the press, about a conceivable cover-up concerning testing of a homebased 'secret weapon'.

When though, did these turn to claims surfacing in relation to known evidence of 'alien visition' not being revealed.

Although Roswell now does indeed come into play, as we appreciate,it wasn't a longstanding affair at ttime and media coverage soon dissipated.

What I can evidence, for sure, is that the earliest 'flying saucers' newsletters/magazines, circa 1953, were full of calls for 'disclosure'!

So, what was the catalyst in-between?

How about this dichotomy, wonderfully captured by 'The Knoxville Journal', on 28 December, 1949:

'Flying Saucers All Myths, Air Force Asserts; Investigation Discontinued

Flying Saucers Observers From Planet, Article Says

www.forteanmedia.com/1949_12_28_Knoxville.jpg

Step forward Donald E. Keyhoe...

The uploaded image has not been compressed and is a high-resolution 1.3 Mb.

My copy has been printed out and hangs on the wall.

 

[EnolaGaia]

... When though, did these turn to claims surfacing in relation to known evidence of 'alien visition' not being revealed.
Although Roswell now does indeed come into play, as we appreciate,it wasn't a longstanding affair at ttime and media coverage soon dissipated.
What I can evidence, for sure, is that the earliest 'flying saucers' newsletters/magazines, circa 1953, were full of calls for 'disclosure'!
So, what was the catalyst in-between?
How about this dichotomy, wonderfully captured by 'The Knoxville Journal', on 28 December, 1949 ...

To my mind the thing that's most interesting and potentially most relevant to your query is the mention of a then-new (December 1949) Virginia radio station saucer crash story involving a crashed saucer, dead aliens, aliens of small stature, aliens wearing older-style clothing, and propulsion by some means or technology clearly different from our own.

These same basic elements are evident in columnist Frank Scully's Variety article from two months earlier (8 October 1949):

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Scully's_Scrapbook_of_October_8,_1949

You may recall that Scully was the journalist who first publicized the Newton and Gebauer Aztec crash hoax and published one of the first - if not the first - believer-oriented book on UFOs (Behind the Flying Saucers) in 1950.

Whether or not these bits were the key motivators in the shift you described, they're certainly evidence the transition period could well have been 1949 / 1950.

 

[BS3]

I suppose another key element of the 'cover-up' theory was the knowledge that the (1948?) document usually referred to as the "Estimate of the Situation" had been binned. When was this first publically discussed? Was it in Ruppelt's book, so I would guess it was the mid-50s before the "Estimate"'s existence was widely known?

 

[eburacum]

Every word of Scully's story, and the story about aliens in 15th century clothing told by the WRVA radio station in Virginia, was fiction.

If people were allowing this kind of mixture between truth and fantasy in those days, no wonder that people were getting confused.

 

[BS3]

I think it's fair to say that, whatever the more earnest ETH types like to think, the phenomenon has been shaped from the very start by the input of pulp writers, sensational journalists and hoaxers.

 

[EnolaGaia]

I suppose another key element of the 'cover-up' theory was the knowledge that the (1948?) document usually referred to as the "Estimate of the Situation" had been binned. When was this first publically discussed? ...

I've long thought - based on professional experience and knowledge - the debates over the alleged "Estimate of the Situation" (hereafter EOS) document or report derive from ignorance about what an "estimate of the situation" (hereafter eos) is in military - specifically US Army - parlance.

The non-military writers and ufology fans jumped to the conclusion there was a specific formal 1948 document / report entitled Estimate of the Situation that presumably had to be preserved and whose subsequent absence represented an anomaly. I don't think these presumptions are valid. Here's why ...

First, some quick background ...

As of 1948 the USAF had only recently been spun off as a separate service from the US Army. All middle and senior level USAF officers had been trained as Army officers and drilled in the Army's way of doing things. One highly developed bit of Army doctrine concerned the procedures / processes by which tactical (etc.) decision making was to be performed. The US Army began formalizing such processes circa the beginning of the 20th century, drawing on 19th century European innovations and theories in military science.

The development of a given operational unit's "estimate of the situation" represented a canonical step or phase in this doctrinal process during which the relevant parties assemble / collate / compile a consensus appraisal of whatever "situation" is being addressed in making decisions. Once the eos is assembled and presented to the relevant commander it sets the context for commander's guidance to the team in specifying a final decision / plan / etc. and prescribing how to execute that final conclusion.

The formality of such decision making processes (e.g., how much is documented) varies with the organizational level at which decisions are being made and other factors. In lower level tactical planning the eos may be very informal, even to the extent of being verbally compiled and refined in a team meeting.

The central point here is that an eos is a working construct analogous to a memo or file shared among relevant team members. It's not a final report or permanent record of the eventually prescribed decision (plan, etc.) based upon the data (opinions; suggestions; etc.) contained in the interim eos.

Furthermore ... Descriptions of the alleged EOS claim it was highly classified. This alone would mean it was destined for destruction if and when the justification period for its classification had expired.

Bottom Line(s): The alleged EOS was actually an eos (routine doctrinally-prescribed working construct) within a classified project. It was disposable, it was subject to mandatory disposal, and its MIA status isn't a grand mystery after all.

 

[EnolaGaia]

... Was it in Ruppelt's book, so I would guess it was the mid-50s before the "Estimate"'s existence was widely known?

Yes, much of the EOS story comes from Ruppelt's 1956 book.

Now here's the part nobody seems to mention. Ruppelt hadn't returned to active duty, joined the Air Technical Intelligence Center, and been assigned to Project Grudge until late 1951 - two years or more after the alleged EOS had been created and run its course under Project Sign. He wasn't involved at all with the EOS / eos in Project Sign. His knowledge of any EOS had to have come from local history or outright hearsay.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

To my mind the thing that's most interesting and potentially most relevant to your query is the mention of a then-new (December 1949) Virginia radio station saucer crash story....

What a spot that is.

How interesting indeed and dare say, not a case which is generally noted as important?

Unfamiliar to myself shall have a look into it further.

 

[BS3]

I've long thought - based on professional experience and knowledge - the debates over the alleged "Estimate of the Situation" (hereafter EOS) document or report derive from ignorance about what an "estimate of the situation" (hereafter eos) is in military - specifically US Army - parlance.

The non-military writers and ufology fans jumped to the conclusion there was a specific formal 1948 document / report entitled Estimate of the Situation that presumably had to be preserved and whose subsequent absence represented an anomaly. I don't think these presumptions are valid. Here's why ...

First, some quick background ...

As of 1948 the USAF had only recently been spun off as a separate service from the US Army. All middle and senior level USAF officers had been trained as Army officers and drilled in the Army's way of doing things. One highly developed bit of Army doctrine concerned the procedures / processes by which tactical (etc.) decision making was to be performed. The US Army began formalizing such processes circa the beginning of the 20th century, drawing on 19th century European innovations and theories in military science.

The development of a given operational unit's "estimate of the situation" represented a canonical step or phase in this doctrinal process during which the relevant parties assemble / collate / compile a consensus appraisal of whatever "situation" is being addressed in making decisions. Once the eos is assembled and presented to the relevant commander it sets the context for commander's guidance to the team in specifying a final decision / plan / etc. and prescribing how to execute that final conclusion.

The formality of such decision making processes (e.g., how much is documented) varies with the organizational level at which decisions are being made and other factors. In lower level tactical planning the eos may be very informal, even to the extent of being verbally compiled and refined in a team meeting.

The central point here is that an eos is a working construct analogous to a memo or file shared among relevant team members. It's not a final report or permanent record of the eventually prescribed decision (plan, etc.) based upon the data (opinions; suggestions; etc.) contained in the interim eos.

Furthermore ... Descriptions of the alleged EOS claim it was highly classified. This alone would mean it was destined for destruction if and when the justification period for its classification had expired.

Bottom Line(s): The alleged EOS was actually an eos (routine doctrinally-prescribed working construct) within a classified project. It was disposable, it was subject to mandatory disposal, and its MIA status isn't a grand mystery after all.

A good point. Ruppelt must surely have known that the title of the Estimate showed that it was, effectively, a standard military project document, so his decision to use the definite article and rather grandly capitalise its title must have been a conscious decision by him (or his editor at the publisher!) in order to make it sound a little more significant and exciting.

I do feel that knowledge of the Estimate could have significantly contributed to the 'cover up' narrative - it appeared to provide evidence that the military and Government's own experts believed UFOs could be "interplanetary". Funny thing is that the sighting that provoked it (Chiles-Whitted) these days seems a fairly obvious bolide.

I suppose the key to understanding all this government activity is that they were genuinely concerned that some of these sightings could represent new Russian technology - after all they still weren't quite sure what or who the Soviets had managed to extract from eastern Germany in 1945. The "Ghost Rocket" flap in Sweden provides some useful context here.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Every word of Scully's story, and the story about aliens in 15th century clothing told by the WRVA radio station in Virginia, was fiction.
If people were allowing this kind of mixture between truth and fantasy in those days, no wonder that people were getting confused.

This lengthy webpage provides an extensive review of the Aztec hoax and the roles of Newton, Scully, WRVA, other media / publication outlets in establishing and spreading the tale of crashed saucers, dead aliens, etc., during 1949 / 1950.

https://www.saturdaynightuforia.com/html/articles/articlehtml/anatomyofahoax-part10.html

 

[Comfortably Numb]

If it helps to illustrate the overall context of Roswell, the following are three, contemporary, newspaper reports, in date order, I thought were worthwhile documenting.

'Lubbock Morning Avalanche' (Texas)
8 July, 1947

Two 'Flying Discs' Said Found In State
By The Associated Press

TWO flying discs were reported found in Texas and at least one is being investigated by milltary officials as the total number of Texans claiming to have seen the mysterious objects passed the 50 mark Monday.

The discs were reported found on a beach near Trinity bay, near Houston, and nenr Hillsboro.

The Houston Chronicle said a great deal of mystery surrounded the one found near there by Norman Hargrave, a jeweler, Sunday. He first reported that he had found the aluminum disc floating near the beach while he and his wife were walking. He described it minutely, even giving an inscription he said it carried.

Monday he said it was all a joke, but The Chronicle, after extensive checking, said "there are some mysterious facts contained in his Hargrave's first report that lend credence to the tale."

Hargrave first said the disc bore this wording: "Military secret of the United States of America, Army Air Forces M433- 9683, Anyone damaging or revealing description or whereabouts of this misslie subject to prosecution by the U. S. government. Call collect at once, LD445, Army Air Forces depot, Spokane, Wash. He said the words "non-explosive" also were carried.

It was recalled that the initial reports of flying saucers or discs originated in the Spokane area. The Chronicle, meanwhile, telephoned Spokane, and said it "brought interest" on the part of the commanding officer, but he would not confirm or deny that the missile may have carried the message. Later he referred Houston to Wright Field, Ohio, but the commanding officer there was out of town.

In Houston, Col. R. W. Warren. commanding officer of Ellington Field, said he had been instructed. by Washington to investigate. Houston police would not say if they had the missile.

(In Spokane, Col. Frank D. Hackel, commanding officer of the Spokane Air depot, told the Associated Press that he "knew nothing about" the reported finding of a fiying disc on the Texas Gulf coast other than that his public relations office had received a call from the Houston Chronicle.)

(...)

The second flying disc was reported found by Bob Scott, a farmer living two and a half miles west of Hlillsboro. He said the disc fell on his place Friday, and that it resembled a saucer. He said it was so bright he could not look at it very long.

He said he was afraid people might believe he was "going to extremes in imagining things" and he told no one but his family until yesterday.

Then he notified O. P. Kissick and Joe Cerick, Eillsboro, who went in the field and investigated. Most of it had melted, they said. Cerick said one piece looked like tin foll, but when he picked it up it appeared to be cellulaid.

Another development in Houston was a suggestion by Charles Odom. 23, Air Force captain in the last war, that the flying discs might be "crystal balls" similar to those he said were used by the Nazis.

He said these balls were electronically operated, and while in mid-air would send back to a radar screen on the ground the altitude, speed and other data of bombers it approached. He sald the balls would fly up in the altitude of bombers, were apparently magnetized, and then flew along with the plane formations.

(...)

(End)

There is more to this lengthy article.


'The Casper Tribune-Herald' (Wyoming)
9 July, 1947

THIS IS IT: This six-pointed star found at Circleville, Ohio, last week is a weatherp bureau wind ray target exactly like the one found near Roswell, N. M. and first reported by the army to be a captured "flying saucer". It is held by Mrs. Sherman Campbell, on whose husband's farm it was found.
(End)


'The Union County Journal' (Marysville, Ohio)
10 July, 1947

Weather Balloon is Found on Dover Township Farm

If those "flying discs" being, seen all over the country turn out to be weather bureau observation balloons, then Leroy Leach, Dover township farmer will have the honor of having found one.

The balloon, with a kite-like device made of tin-foil glued to heavy paper attached underneath, landed on his farm approximately two weeks ago. Although not exactly certain what the device was, Mr. Leach suspected it was used in government experiments of some kind.

He kept it at his home as a curio until his cousin, Fred Lowe, of Delaware, visiting at the Leach home last Sunday, correctly identified the balloon...

(...)

(End)


Regarding the 'Lubbock Morning Avalanche' article, what was our enigmatic "Military secret of the United States of America" and its connection with, 'Army Air Forces depot, Spokane'?

The full 8th and 10th July articles and accompanying photograph for the 9th July feature, can be found on my new website (experimental as a means of highlightling archived material and very much a work in progress!):

www.forteans.net

 

[Comfortably Numb]

I've long thought - based on professional experience and knowledge - the debates over the alleged "Estimate of the Situation" (hereafter EOS) document or report derive from ignorance about what an "estimate of the situation" (hereafter eos) is in military - specifically US Army - parlance.

Having read your fascinating and hugely informative summation, I had a thorough search for anything online which might be further insightful.

I have come across the very thing - a truly fabulous presentation by Michael Swords.

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sign/sign.htm

This is clearly not 'light reading' and will take quite some time to study!

 

[BS3]

If those "flying discs" being, seen all over the country turn out to be weather bureau observation balloons, then Leroy Leach, Dover township farmer will have the honor of having found one.

The balloon, with a kite-like device made of tin-foil glued to heavy paper attached underneath, landed on his farm approximately two weeks ago. Although not exactly certain what the device was, Mr. Leach suspected it was used in government experiments of some kind.

He kept it at his home as a curio until his cousin, Fred Lowe, of Delaware, visiting at the Leach home last Sunday, correctly identified the balloon

Amazing - you could replace "Leroy Leach" with "Mac Brazel" in that last newspaper story and see how Roswell could so easily have been reduced to three paragraphs.

 

[EnolaGaia]

'Lubbock Morning Avalanche' (Texas) 8 July, 1947
Two 'Flying Discs' Said Found In State By The Associated Press ...

Regarding the 'Lubbock Morning Avalanche' article, what was our enigmatic "Military secret of the United States of America" and its connection with, 'Army Air Forces depot, Spokane'? ...

The AP wire story that seemingly originated in Houston on 7 July was published in a number of newspapers nationwide. The AP text was often modified and / or rearranged in a given newspaper's published item.

The version that appeared in the Missoula, Montana, Missoulian (attached) illustrates some of these changes (e.g., the inscribed number on the object). It also includes something attributed to Hargrave omitted from the Lubbock version:

He said the disc was about 20 inches in diameter and six inches thick.

CLIPPING SOURCE:
The Missoulian (Missoula, Montana)
Tuesday, 8 July 1947, p. 3
https://missoulian.newspapers.com/clip/15626196/the-missoulian/

 

[EnolaGaia]

If it helps to illustrate the overall context of Roswell, the following are three, contemporary, newspaper reports, in date order, I thought were worthwhile documenting. ...

If you go to the full page displays for newspapers carrying the AP Houston disc story, you'll commonly see one or more additional stories listing sighting reports from all over the USA. This demonstrates that there was a UFO "mania" afoot at the time the Roswell incident story was first published.

The Roswell story didn't ignite the 1947 UFO flap - it represented a big log thrown on an already blazing fire.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Having read your fascinating and hugely informative summation, I had a thorough search for anything online which might be further insightful.
I have come across the very thing - a truly fabulous presentation by Michael Swords. ...

Swords includes an Appendix 1 that purports to be an intelligence estimate generated by George Garrett. The Appendix 1 text is consistent with an intelligence estimate working document, so I see no reason to dispute its alleged identity.

Garrett selected some 16 incidents (17 in all, with one as yet not investigated / documented) to include as references in his estimate.

The thing that I find most interesting about Garrett's estimate of 30 July 1947 is that it doesn't mention Roswell at all. It includes Arnold's 24 June encounter (arguably the most famous one in the set he included), but it doesn't even mention the even more famous Roswell incident.

Why would Roswell be omitted? One fairly obvious explanation might be that Garrett selected his reference set only from among sightings of UFOs in flight.

However, the Wilmot (Roswell) sighting attributed to circa 2 July was included in the 9 July Roswell front page article announcing the USAAF had obtained one of the saucers. There was a UFO-in-flight report embedded in the Roswell publicity, and this still didn't seem to recommend Roswell for inclusion in Garrett's estimate set. Why should that be? ...

Perhaps it's because the USAAF Pentagon-level intelligence folks (e.g., Garrett) knew Roswell was already "dead" as an instance of the UFO phenomenon they were otherwise interested in investigating.

 

[Tunn11]

I’m really not just being facetious, but has anyone ever wondered whether the supposed UFO crashed because it hit a Mogul balloon?

I know, supposed advanced tech and something made of foil and wood, but a bird can seriously foul (sorry) up a jet engine.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

If you go to the full page displays for newspapers carrying the AP Houston disc story, you'll commonly see one or more additional stories listing sighting reports from all over the USA. This demonstrates that there was a UFO "mania" afoot at the time the Roswell incident story was first published.

You highlight an aspect which is central and one I had also addressed many years ago.

I have discovered in my archives, an article written way back and so long ago, I had quite simply forgotten how much research had been undertaken at that time.

Should some of the contents be a revelation, this equally applies to myself...

If I recall, it featured in a newsletter I used to publish.

There are a few interesting, further insights and as you note, the newspapers were in the midst of 'flying disc' hysteria and against that background, all things possible, as regards what they were and where they came from.

If slightly dated, that's because it is - the title is a play on Corso's book, 'The Day After Roswell'!

As it's lengthy, duly uploaded to:

www.forteanmedia.com/Day_Before_Roswell.txt

 

[EnolaGaia]

I’m really not just being facetious, but has anyone ever wondered whether the supposed UFO crashed because it hit a Mogul balloon?
I know, supposed advanced tech and something made of foil and wood, but a bird can seriously foul (sorry) up a jet engine. ...

Given the fact the known debris was pretty reliably identified as coming from a crashed MOGUL (or similar) balloon, I've sometimes pondered the reverse:

Has anyone ever wondered whether the balloon was destroyed because it was hit by an actual UFO?

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Considering the fact that the Wright Brothers didn't fly their first plane until 1903, it is kind of puzzling to just dismiss sightings of flying objects as merely government experiments or trials, after all there were many observations of 'flying machines' back in the 1800's.
JMO, there is more to it.