The Roswell Incident [1947]



Roswell Revisited (don't yawn...)

Could somebody please tell me what really did happen at Roswell? I tend to vascillate between something strange and something banal. I've heard that the material displayed in those famous "it's only a weather balloon!" army base photographs really is the material they found. Is that now genuinely considered to be true? Also, I heard a telegram in one of the pictures has been enlarged and transcribed. I may be behind the times here, but what is it supposed to say? Something enlightening? Or is the whole Roswell incident considered some kind of modern myth now?
Blimey, its been round the mill so much, I doubt even those who were there are sure anymore :eek:

Although, I'd love to hang out with the local rednecks at the little ale'ien or whatever its called :D
I think the U.S. government is covering up something but what exactly is anyone's guese.
Roswell wasn't even considered a real UFO case (even by MUFON and NICAP) until it became popular in the late 80's, thanks to a rather detailed book by that Campbell guy.

Roswell is about selling things.

Want a better UFO crash? Try Shag Harbour (1967) Nova Scotia. Look for a book by Don Ledger (he's on the believer side so be warned). I believe the book is co-authored by Chris Stiles. Both are NS folk.
I heard that after many employees there got sick from all the accumulating waste, that the operation had to be moved. The logic was that with it being so top secret a place that the govt. couldn't simply remove the waste. I believe that it was a high tech military operation. Now to connect that technology to interaction with or recovery of alien material, that i can't prove.
Roswell weirdness

Well, here's what we DO know:

Roswell was an incident that is still hotly debated by skeptics and believers alike! Here's the story from both camps:

Story 1: A weather balloon from a top secret military project crashed. The materials in the crash appeared to be space-age and otherworldly. The military acted quickly in recovery, and when the reporters sensationalized the incident with a story of a crashed space-craft, the official press release from the military corrected the media with actual images of a mangled weather balloon.

Story 2: Two space craft crashed in the desert-like countryside of New Mexico. The military recovered the vehicles and took them to a military base. Local Mac Brazel witnessed a brilliant atmospheric disturbance preceeding the crash and saw wreckage first-hand before the military. One craft was totalled, with parts spread for a mile, the other craft was more in one piece and was discovered by a team of archaeologists. Small 3ft tall (child sized) bodies were within the wreckage.. all dead but one, who was walking around the ship. The media actually reported the crashed flying saucer via the Roswell Air Field's official press release, but were promptly corrected with the weather balloon story after the phones rang off the hook in Washington.

Here's the weirdness of the situation:

Roswell Police, Fire Dept. a team of archaeologists and ranchers all saw the wreckage and were convinced it was of extra-terrestrial origin. Why were witnesses threatened with their lives by the military over a secret "weather balloon?" ...especially before sharing it with the entire world through the media.

Why was Glen Dennis (director Ballard Funeral Home) asked for child sized hermetically sealed coffins and asked about the best way to preserve bodies that have been weathered? Just days after the crash...

Military officers were reassigned, flights overhead were re-routed, files were destroyed, and the incident was covered up for 45 years. Over a balloon?

Personally I'm skeptical of anything I don't see with my own two eyes, but the story is one of the most interesting pieces of sci-fi in America.
Shag Harbor...

In my opinion Shag Harbor is worthy of it's own thread. From what I understand, the Canadian government actually listed the darned thing(s) as a U.F.O.
Wasn't the airforce base connected with early atomic testing/missiles etc? If so, I'd be inclined to cover it up if it turned out that I'd accidently dropped something rather 'hot' over a populated area...
Correct. The base at Alamagordo was extensively involved with the Manhattan project, so there's no telling what was over the skies of New Mexico that night. I shudder at the thought of any kind of weapons payload carried by a balloon. It would begin explain the military secrecy too.

Whatever it was however, Alamagordo picked it up on radar before it happened... July 1st, I believe.
Life-threatening spin on Roswell

You all know about the ins and outs of Roswell but I saw a documentary the other week that all but closed the book on Roswell as anything other than Project Mogul.

I've always been bothered about the debris that Mac Brazel brought back from the ranch, which was described, amongst other things, as "foil" that "unscrunched itself after being scrunched up". That kind of material sounds like something containing a roast chicken rather than any extraterrestrial beings. And my suspicions were further raised by the excellent point that materials such as neoprene, plastics, foils .etc. were not in wide household use, as they are today, back in 1947, so would have looked very strange to someone who hadn't seen it before. The clincher was when a former Mogul engineer produced some sticky tape with the "hieroglyphs" on it similar to what he had used in constructing the devices (a random pattern, unusual but very terrestrial), amongst other pieces of plastics and foil which were also used, showed it to one of the Brazel material witnesses who confirmed that was what he saw.

The cover-up was entirely justified as Mogul was a piece of Cold War technology. And it was a flying disc, except it was suspended from a balloon.

There are still outstanding questions, but unless flying saucers can be readily constructed by the cast of Blue Peter, Roswell will never quite have the same mysterious quality it used to.
And there seem to be a whole load of other "crashed ufo" recovery tales, some of which date back over 100 years. Surely too many to be realistic?
Absolutely. There's a common characteristic of "crashed/recovered" UFOs, and that is absolutely sod all evidence. In every case we're asked to rely on single witness testimony or a high ranking government official who cannot be identified.
Case in point was the book "Beyond Top Secret" by Timothy Goode. Did some excellent digging up of declassified papers, but absolutely none of them pertained to recovered discs .etc. Yet Mr. Goode deemed it worth a chapter...:hmph:
Roswell Footage revealed to be filmed in fictional London Un

I've just had something of a revelation. Just watched the Hammer version of 'Quatermass and the Pit' for the first time in years. It features pretty much the entirety of the Roswell Autopsy footage!
No, really. Just watch - the bit where they take the insect creatures out of the ship and examine them.

Very roughly:

1st shot - scalpel enters torso of insect thing. Oozy stuff.
Followed by - various organs being randomly removed and dropped into jars and dishes, with no attempt to catalogue.

'That's funny', I said. 'It would be a real giveaway if the next shot was someone removing a film layer from one of those creatures' eyes'.
Lo and behold, within thirty seconds, there it was. Professor Q does it, with some tweezers, no less.
Seriously, check it out and see if you agree with me. It seems to be a bit more then coincidence. It would make a kind of sense...
Oh my. But imagine you were to perform an alien autopsy and didn't know how to do it. You'd probably try and find some inspiration somewhere :) Actually I think this could be quite big, write it straight to FT.
Roswell Holidays - Help wanted

Hi guys,

Just wanted to ask if anyone in the UK new of any company that can offer a package holiday to Roswell.

I'm looking to go in August and can arrange flights, etc. But wanted to see if any comapnies can offer a complete package deal.

Need to see the lights in my lifetime.

Any info would be welcome and you can e-mail me on:

[email protected]

Or my ICQ is : 146007574

Thanks in advance.
Go to Area 51 instead, much better. I dont think theres much to see at Roswell eccept an air force base. Although it would still make a good pilgamidge.
The idea was to do a tour. Looks like I may have to book it all myself via the web.

Planning on flying to Las Vegas and staying there for a few days to explore Rachel and the Little Ail' E' Inn and then drive down to Roswell for a day or so.

Get to have the pilgramidge and also see some of the US country side.

Any bids for a co-pilot / companion (offers on a self addressed
Rincewind said:
The idea was to do a tour. Looks like I may have to book it all myself via the web.

Planning on flying to Las Vegas and staying there for a few days to explore Rachel and the Little Ail' E' Inn and then drive down to Roswell for a day or so.

Get to have the pilgramidge and also see some of the US country side.

Any bids for a co-pilot / companion (offers on a self addressed

ive been there and done that, you will have a sream, i wouldnt bother with roswell there's nothing there. but if you go to area51 it has lots to offer, the little ali' e in is good for 20 minutes its tiny and when you have spent your cash they want you out and the next customers in. rachel on the other hand is different it has around 70 people living there and 50 profeesional UFOP chasers all happy to tell you story's ( when you have paid for there good s or services ).

just got to las-vegas as i did, and you cant go wrong, everyone has some sort of UFO tour to sell you tickets, or something. the moral of the story is spend enough cash and they will tell you what you want to here, although its one big rip-off and it shed's no life on the truth i reall y would love to go back.
Las Vegas to Roswell is a long drive, about 800 miles (but very scenic). If you have limited time, you could fly from Las Vegas to Albuquerque. Air fares are pretty cheap in that area, try Southwest Airlines or AmericaWest.

You could also visit Socorro (although I don't know if they have anything to commemorate the famous sighting) and the Very Large Array (radiotelescopes, seen in Contact and 2010).

If you're going in August, expect HOT weather - 110+ F.
Starting to plan everything now.

Thanks for all the advice. Looking forward to finally going to the US :)
Archeologists Look for UFO at Famed Roswell Site

Archeologists Look for UFO at Famed Roswell Site
1 hour, 3 minutes ago Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo!

By Zelie Pollon

ALBUQUERQUE, New Mexico (Reuters) - In trying to unravel a mystery that may involve the war of the worlds, cable TV's SCI FI Channel has turned to a group of educated men and women with shovels and set them loose on the southern New Mexico desert.

In an effort to verify once and for all whether a UFO crash-landed in New Mexico more than 50 years ago, the cable TV channel sent a team of archeologists to conduct an in-depth study of the legendary crash site.

And just like the alleged government conspiracy by those who say aliens landed near Roswell, New Mexico, the results of the scientific study are top secret. That is until Nov. 22, when SCI FI airs "The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence," which will include what network representatives are calling a "smoking gun."

Until then believers and debunkers will just have to wait, said Bill Doleman, the principal investigator with the University of New Mexico archeology team.

Doleman, along with three other archeologists and six volunteers were hired by the SCI FI Channel to conduct the research, which took place over 10 days last September.

"We found things -- some things I still don't know what they are -- but they surprised me," Doleman said, reiterating his confidentiality agreement with SCI FI.

SCI FI representatives say the program promises never- before-seen eyewitness interviews, late-breaking revelations and a "smoking gun bombshell," which does not necessarily coincide with the archeological findings.

"The smoking gun is fascinating and compelling. It's going to raise a lot of questions afterwards," said Thomas Vitale, a senior vice president of programming at the SCI FI Channel.

The supposed crash of an alien ship in Roswell on July 3, 1947 has become legendary. According to some accounts, the ship crashed in an empty field with several aliens on board. Witnesses claim to have seen extraterrestrial beings, which were taken away by military personnel never to be seen again.

Those who believe an alien craft landed are adamant the incident involves a huge government cover-up. The government, in turn, says the incident involved a weather balloon and the accounts of aliens comes from anti-military conspirators.

Doleman says his team was directed to use purely scientific methods, such as geophysical prospecting and archeological testing of anomalies, to find any evidence of a crash.

They primarily investigated what is called the "skip site," the second site of impact where the craft supposedly spewed debris before skipping 17-25 miles away to its final crash site.

"We weren't out there to bunk or debunk. We were just scientists using scientific methods," he said.

Along with evidence found at the scene, the "smoking gun evidence sheds light on government truthfulness about this whole event," Vitale said.

Not so sure, about where to post this, news or UFO section
Thanks Sakina: have moved it to Ufology.

Question is, of course, will this be another "Geraldo and Al Capone's Safe" job? The Sci-Fi Channel are pretty much damned if they do and damned if they don't: if they come up with anything the skeptics will descend instantly and cry either "naturally occuring!" or plain old "Fake!", and if SciFi come up with nothing they will be accused by the true believers of either not having looked hard enough or having been "got at" and suppressed.

IMHO Roswell has been so mired by now that whatever "evidence", pro or con, anyone comes up with is prey to scores of counter arguments. It's rather like the Money Pit now: so many people have tried to dig it out that no-one actually knows where the original hole was any more. Roswell has been utterly obfuscated by it's own mythology, and as the yea and nay sayers continue to bicker the original witnesses pass away and the top soil erodes and the core of truth withers away into obscurity (altogether now: that's what they want to happen).

Maybe we'll know, one way or the other, one day, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon :(.

I trust those with access to SCI FI will report here promptly after the prog airs! I like smoking guns, me. :cool:
Sci-Fi Channel "Smoking Gun" Doc Tonight In UK ?

Is the Sci-Fi channel showing it tonight in the UK..Can't find it in the schedules?:confused:
Doesn't look like it - 10pm night of the creeps 11.30 ish night of the living dead

What wasa the documentary about exactly?
It starts in about 4 &1/2 hours here in the US... I've got
the VCR ready to fire.
They keep claiming to have some real evidence --
I hope its metal fragments or vintage photos -- but it will
probably be a FOIA document with one or two words
not blacked out!

I know... cynical, cynical...


Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

A computer analysis of that memo, held by Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey during a July 1947 press briefing, is the "smoking gun" of the Roswell Incident, researchers say in the documentary being broadcast today on the Sci-Fi Channel.

Using a digital photo scanner to enlarge and enhance words printed on the folded piece of paper Ramey held, and using another computer program to select the most likely words, researcher David Rudiak, who has a Ph.D. in physics from UC Berkeley, found two key phrases: "the victims of the wreck" and "in the 'disc' they will ship."


I thought this photo analysis thing had been done to death already... how is this new evidence?
Wasn't it a couple of years ago that the memo in Ramey's hand
turned out to be nothing? Even Phil Klass was ready
to concede based upon the early "victims of the wreck"
conclusion. The drum-scanned negative seemed to say
something totally different than "victims of the wreck"!

Of course, Klass had a field day with that!!

I can't imagine it'll be anything too earth shattering or conclusive or else it would have been front page news already - the researchers/archaeologists/whatever would have rushed to write papers about it before someone beat them to it and the scifi channel would have rushed to release something sooner...

Still, will be interesting to hear/see what they have to say.