JFK: Kennedy Assassination Etc.

[crunchy5]

I've added my own little something to the JFK bunched jacket nonsense

http://www.paullee.com/jfk/bunchedjacket.html

Good work

 

[DrPaulLee]

Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it!

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Dodgy? E. Howard Hunt was an effective upper-echelon intelligence agent, both before and after the John Kennedy assassination. He was also an articulate and best-selling novelist.

He may or he may not have been evil, but that's another matter.

"Dodgy" isn't the word I'd choose.

 

[DrPaulLee]

On this theme, I would highly recommend "Someone would have talked" by Larry Hancock.

 

[ogopogo3]

Wow, could that reporter have been any less critical? I have some swampland I'd like to sell him.

From the article:

One evening in Eureka, over a barbecue meal, St. John explains how he first came to suspect that his father might somehow be involved in the Kennedy assassination. "Around 1975, I was in a phone booth in Maryland somewhere, when I saw a poster on a telephone pole about who killed JFK, and it had a picture of the three tramps. I saw that picture and I fucking -- like a cartoon character, my jaw dropped, my eyes popped out of my head, and smoke came out of my ears. It looks like my dad. There's nobody that has all those same facial features. People say it's not him. He's said it's not him. But I'm his son, and I've got a gut feeling."

Well, you are wrong.

"And then, like an epiphany, I remember '63, and my dad being gone, and my mom telling me that he was on a business trip to Dallas. I've tried to convince myself that's some kind of false memory, that I'm just nuts, that it's something I heard years later."

How convenient. Naturally, a man planning an assassination would give his family an alibi placing him at the scene of the crime.

I'm sorry, but the Son sounds like a sleazy bottom-feeder angling for a book deal. It's also strangely interesting how Son manages to parrot back mostly theories previously put forth on Nigel Turner's The Men Who Killed Kennedy TV documentary. You know Nigel Turner. He was the guy who was censured by Parliament for making inaccurate broadcasts. I think Son stayed up late watching the History Channel one night and began scheming.

So Howard Hunt sues a reporter for libel in 1981 who accused him of taking part in the assassination because he didn't want more "ruination" brought to his name but then offers a deathbed confession? Ok then.



Some related, slightly more critical articles:

E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis: Were Watergate Conspirators Also JFK Assassins?


Did Mark Lane Convince a Jury that E. Howard Hunt was a Kennedy Assassination Conspirator?

 

[WhistlingJack]

Secrets and lies that a Cold-War warrior took to his grave

April 15, 2007

The secrets and lies that a Cold-War warrior took to his grave

The disgraced spymaster, a movie star, the assassination of JFK, and a dubious confession

Erik Hedegaard

When the old spymaster thought he was dying, his eldest son came to visit him at his home in Miami. The scourges had been constant and terrible recently: lupus, pneumonia, cancers of the jaw and prostate, gangrene, the amputation of his left leg. Long past were his years of heroic service to his country.

In the CIA, he had helped to mastermind the violent removal of a duly elected leftist president in Guatemala and assisted in subterfuges that led to the murder of Che Guevara. But no longer could you see in him the suave, pipe-smoking, cocktail-party-loving clandestine operative whose cold-war exploits he himself had, almost obsessively, turned into novels. Diminished too were the old bad memories, of the Bay of Pigs debacle that derailed his CIA career for good, of the Watergate hotel fiasco, of his first wife's death, of 33 months in US prisons. But his first-born son – he named him St John; Saint, for short – was by his side now. And he still had a story or two left to share before it was all over.

They were in the living room, him in his wheelchair, watching Fox News. He had Saint wheel him into his bedroom and hoist him onto his bed. It smelt foul in there; he was incontinent; but he was beyond caring. He asked Saint to get him a diet root beer, paper and a pen.

Saint had come to Miami from California. Though clean now, he had been a meth addict for 20 years, and a source of frustration and anger to his father for much of his life. He had two convictions to his name, for drugs. The old spymaster was a convicted criminal too, but that was different. He was Everette Howard Hunt, a true American patriot, who had served his country. That the country repaid him with almost three years in jail was something he could never understand, if only because the orders that got him in such trouble came right from the top.

For years, he and Saint had hardly spoken. Then Saint came to him wanting to know if he had any information about JFK's assassination. His father had sworn in two government investigations that he didn't. But now, in August 2003, propped up in his sick bed, he began to write down the names of men who participated in a plot to kill the president. He had lied during those two federal investigations. He knew something after all. He told Saint about his own involvement, too. It was explosive stuff, with the potential to reconfigure the JFK-assassination-theory landscape. And then Hunt got better and went on to live for four more years.

They don't make White House bad guys the way they used to. It seems a little nutty now, but in 1972 it was serious business. These guys meant to take the powers of the presidency and run amok. Hunt, an ex-CIA man who loved operating in the shadows and joined Nixon's special investigations unit (aka "the Plumbers") as a $100-a-day consultant in 1971, specialised in political sabotage. Among his first assignments: forging cables linking the Kennedy administration to the assassination of South Vietnam's president. After that, he began sniffing around Ted Kennedy's dirty laundry. But of all his subterfuges, in the end, only one mattered: the failed burglary at the Watergate hotel in Washington, DC, in spring 1972.

Hunt enlisted Cuban pals from his Bay of Pigs days to bug the Democratic National Committee HQ, which was located inside the Watergate. Also on the team were a couple of shady ex-government operators, James McCord and Frank Sturgis. The first attempt ended when the outfit's lock picker realised he'd brought the wrong tools. The next time, Hunt was stationed in a hotel room across the way, communicating with the burglars by walkie-talkie as the team entered the office. Unfortunately, on the way into the building, they had taped open an exit door to allow their escape, and when a night watchman found it, he called the cops. The burglars were arrested on the spot. One of them had Hunt's phone number, at the White House, no less, in his address book. Following this lead, police arrested Hunt and charged him with burglary, conspiracy and wiretapping. Abandoned by his bosses at the White House, he began trying to extort money from them to help pay his mounting bills – the deal being that if the White House paid, all those arrested would plead guilty and maintain silence.

His wife, Dorothy, was staunchly loyal to him and, after his arrest, helped him with his plans to blackmail the White House. In December 1972 she boarded a flight to Chicago, carrying $10,000 in what is regarded as extorted hush money and, some say, evidence that could have got Nixon impeached. The plane crashed, killing all on board, including Dorothy. Foul play was suspected but never proved.

Two years later, impeachment imminent, Nixon resigned his presidency. And in 1973, Hunt, who had set all these events in motion, pleaded guilty and spent 33 months in prison. After his release, he moved to Miami, where he remarried, had two more children and spent 30 years living an unexceptional life, refusing to talk about Watergate, much less JFK's assassination.

His connection to the assassination came about almost serendipitously, when in 1974 a researcher stumbled across a photo of three tramps standing in Dallas's Dealey Plaza. It was taken on November 22, 1963, the day of Kennedy's shooting, and one of the tramps looked like Hunt. Hunt always denied any involvement. Then, earlier this year, aged 88, he died, but not before writing an autobiography, American Spy: My Secret History in the CIA, Watergate & Beyond. Not surprisingly, those things he wrote down about JFK's death and gave to his eldest son don't appear in the book, at least not in any definitive way. Hunt had apparently decided to take them to the grave. But Saint still has the memo – "It has all this stuff in it," he says, "the chain of command, names, people, places, dates. He wrote it out to me directly, in his own handwriting, starting with the initials 'LBJ' " – and he's decided it's time that his father's last secrets finally see some light.

At the moment, Saint doesn't have a job; his criminal records have got in the way. "I'd have loved to have lived a normal life," he says. "I'm happy with who I am, but all that shit that happened really spun me over." And not only him but his siblings too – a brother, David, who has had his own problems with drugs, and two sisters, Kevan and Lisa, who still hold their father responsible for the tragedy of their mother's death. "My parents had lots of marital problems," Saint says, "but when it came down to it, she had his back and could hang in there with the big dogs. She was really pissed at Nixon, Liddy, all those guys, and was saying, 'We're not going to let them hang you out to dry. We're gonna get them.' So I've never held what happened against him."

At times, he even seems to think of his dad with pride: "Did you hear that the character Tom Cruise plays in the Mission: Impossible movies is named after him? Instead of Everette Hunt, they named him Ethan Hunt. My dad was a really good spy." But then he starts talking about what it was like growing up the eldest son of Hunt, and a different picture emerges. "He loved the glamorous life, cocktail parties, flirting, all that," Saint says. "He was unfaithful to my mom, but she stayed with him. He thought of himself as a cool dude, sophisticated, intellectual. He was Mr Smooth. A man of danger. He was perfect for the CIA – he never felt guilt about anything."

At the start of the cold war, the CIA's mandate was simple: to contain the spread of communism by whatever means necessary. For much of the cold war, it was answerable to nobody. And if you were lucky enough to become one of its agents, you had every right to consider yourself a member of an elite corps. The middle-class son of a New York attorney, Hunt graduated from Brown University in 1940 with a bachelor's in English, joined the navy in the second world war, served in the North Atlantic, slipped and fell, took a medical discharge, then wound up in China working in the newly formed Office of Strategic Services. When the OSS was transformed into the CIA, Hunt jumped on board. He was instrumental in planning the 1954 coup in Guatemala that overthrew the left-leaning, democratically elected president, Jacobo Arbenz, and ushered in 40 years of military repression that cost 200,000 Guatemalans their lives. Later he said: "Deaths – what deaths?"

In the early 1950s, Hunt could be seen cruising around in a white Cadillac convertible; he loved that car. He also loved his cigars and his wine and his country clubs. He had quite an imagination, too. When he wasn't off saving the world from reds, he spent much of his time in front of a typewriter, hacking out espionage novels, some 80 in all. He and his family lived lavishly and well, all presumably to lend credence to his cover job as a high-ranking embassy official. Sadly, he treated his children the way he and the CIA treated the rest of the world. They were supposed to bend to his will and otherwise be invisible. "He was a mean-spirited person and an extremely cruel father. I was his first-born son, and I was born with a club foot and had to have operations. I suffered from petit-mal seizures. I was dyslexic and developed a stutter. For the super-spy not to have a super-son was the ultimate disappointment."

Later, Hunt moved the family to the last home it would occupy as a family, in Potomac, Maryland. Hunt wanted Saint to attend a top-flight prep school, St Andrew's, and took him to a dinner there to get him enrolled. During the meal, Saint leant over to his dad and whispered: "Papa, I have to go to the bathroom." His father glared at him. Soon Saint was banging his knees together under the table. "Sit still," his father hissed. Saint said: "Papa, I really have to go."

"I ended up pissing in my pants at the dinner," Saint says. "Can you imagine how humiliating that was? Unbelievable."

In 1970 his father retired from the CIA after being relegated to the backwaters for his role in the Bay of Pigs. The following year, his lawyer pal Chuck Colson, who was special counsel to Nixon, called him up with an invitation to join the president's special investigations unit as a kind of dirty-tricks consultant. He signed on.

Around the time of Saint's Miami visit in 2003 to talk to his father about JFK, other people were also trying to get things out of Hunt, including the actor Kevin Costner, who played a JFK-assassination-obsessed district attorney in the Oliver Stone film JFK. Saint believed there could be up to $5m on offer for his father telling the truth about what happened in Dallas. As Saint later discovered, Costner had already met Hunt once. That meeting didn't go well. That meeting ended with Hunt grumbling to himself about Costner: "What a numbskull."

But then Saint got involved, and he knew better how to handle the situation. For one thing, he knew his stepmother wanted to forget about the past. Consequently, she and her sons often found themselves in conflict with Saint. "Why can't you go back to California and leave well enough alone?" they asked him. "How can you do this? He's in the last years of his life."

But Saint's attitude was: "This has nothing to do with you. This stuff is of historical significance and needs to come out, and if you're worried that it'll make him out to be a liar, everyone knows he's a liar already." So when Saint arrived in Miami to talk to his dad, the two men spent a lot of time waiting for Laura to leave the house. And when Laura left, they talked.

Afterwards, another meeting was to be arranged with Costner, this time in Los Angeles, where the actor was thought to have had 50 assassination-related questions ready to go. (The actor declined to comment for this article.) Though the $5m figure was still floating around, Saint said Costner only wanted to pay Hunt at this point for his time. Saint recalls telephoning Costner and saying: "That's your offer? A hundred dollars a day? That's an insult. You're a cheapskate." "Nobody calls me a cheapskate," said Costner. "What do you think I'm going to do, just hand over $5m?"

They could not agree terms for the meeting and discussions broke down, with Costner saying: "I can't talk to you any more, Saint." And that was the end of that. It looked like what Hunt had to say would never get out.

One evening, Saint explained how he came to suspect that his father might be involved in the Kennedy assassination. "Around 1975, I was in a phone booth in Maryland when I saw a poster on a telephone pole about who killed JFK, and it had a picture of the three tramps. I saw that picture and I f***ing? like a cartoon character, my jaw dropped, my eyes popped out of my head? It looks like my dad. There's nobody that has those same facial features. Then, like an epiphany, I remember '63, and my dad being gone, and my mom telling me he was on a business trip to Dallas. I've tried to convince myself it's some kind of false memory, something I heard years later. But his alibi for that day is he was at home with his family. I was in the fifth grade. We were at recess. I was playing on the merry-go-round. We were told to go home, because the president had been killed. I remember going home but I don't remember my dad being there. Then he has this whole thing about shopping for Chinese food with my mother that day, so they could cook a meal together." His father testified to this in court on more than one occasion, saying he and his wife often cooked meals together.

Saint pauses. "I can tell you that's the biggest load of crap in the f***ing world. He was always looking at things like he was writing a novel; everything had to be just so glamorous. He couldn't even be bothered with his children. James Bond doesn't have children. So, my dad in the kitchen? Chopping vegetables with his wife? I'm so sorry, but that would never happen. Ever."

Not that it was all bad back then, in Potomac. Hunt played the trumpet and his son was into music too, so sometimes the pair went down to Blues Alley in Georgetown to hear jazz.

Back home, Hunt would slap Benny Goodman's monster swing-jazz song Sing, Sing, Sing on the turntable. Sometimes he would jump to his feet, lick his lips and play the air trumpet for all he was worth. "I'd sit there in awe," Saint says. But the best was yet to come.

It was well past midnight on June 18, 1972. Saint, 18 years old, was asleep in his basement bedroom, surrounded by his Beatles and Playboy posters, when he heard someone shouting: "You gotta wake up! You gotta wake up!" When he opened his eyes, Saint saw his father as he'd never seen him before: he was a sweaty, dishevelled mess. "I don't need you to ask a lot of questions," his father said. "I need you to get your clothes on and come upstairs."

He disappeared into the darkness. Saint changed out of his pyjamas. Upstairs he found his father in the master bedroom, labouring over a green suitcase jumble-filled with microphones, walkie-talkies, cameras, tripods, cords, wires, lots of weird stuff. His father started giving him instructions. Saint went to the kitchen and returned with window cleaner, paper towels and rubber dishwashing gloves. Then the two of them began wiping fingerprints off all the junk in the suitcase. After that, they loaded everything into Hunt's Pontiac Firebird and drove over to a lock. Hunt heaved the suitcase into the water, and it gurgled out of sight. They didn't speak on the way home. Saint still didn't know what was going on. All he knew was that his dad had needed his help, and he'd given it, successfully.

The next day, dressed in one of his prep-school blazers, he drove to a Riggs Bank in Georgetown and met his father inside the safety-deposit-box cage. His father turned him around, lifted his blazer and shoved about $100,000 cash down the back of his pants. The boy made it home without being followed. Then his father made him get rid of a typewriter. Saint put the typewriter in a bag and tossed it into a pond.

"Don't ever tell anybody that you've done these things," his father said later. "I could get in trouble. You could get in trouble. I'm sorry to have to put you in this position, but I really am grateful for your help."

"Of course, Papa," Saint said. Standing there with his father, hearing those words of praise, he was the happiest he'd ever been.

Years later, when Saint started trying to get his father to tell him what he knew about JFK, he came to believe the information would be valuable. He both needed money and thought he was owed money, for what he'd been through. Also, like many a conspiracy nut before him, he was more than a little obsessed. "After seeing that poster of the three tramps," he says, "I read two dozen books on the JFK assassination, and the more I read, the more I was unsure about what happened. I was trying to sort out things that had touched me in a big way."

Touched him and turned him upside down, especially the death of his mother. He had been particularly close to her, but Saint also felt he had never got to know her. She told him that during the second world war, she'd tracked Nazi money for the US Treasury Department, and Saint believes that early in her marriage to his father, she may have been in the CIA herself.

Once his father went to prison, Saint moved to Wisconsin, where he worked in a potato-processing plant and spent the rest of his time dropping acid. In 1975 he moved to the Oakland, California area, started snorting coke and for five years drove a bakery truck. He was in a band and hoped to become a rock star, though touring alongside Buddy Guy was about the biggest thing that ever happened. Then he gave up coke and took up meth and a while later started dealing meth. Twenty years flew by. He had wild sexual escapades; he shacked up with two sisters – "nymphs", he calls them. But mainly his life, like his father's, was a rolling series of misfortunes. He received insurance money after his mother died, and bought a house; a week later it burnt down in some drug-related fiasco.

Finally, in 2001, on the heels of two drug busts, Saint decided to go straight. With his ex-girlfriend, their daughter and her son, he stayed in a series of shelters, then took them to live in Eureka, several hours north of Oakland. He has since earned a certificate in hotel management, but jobs don't last. And the questions about his father continue to circulate in his head.

That time in Miami, with Saint by his bed and him thinking he was six months from death, Hunt finally put pen to paper. He scribbled the initials "LBJ", standing for Kennedy's vice-president, Lyndon Johnson. Under "LBJ", connected by a line, he wrote the name Cord Meyer. Meyer was a CIA agent whose wife had an affair with JFK; later she was murdered, a case that has never been solved. Next, his father connected to Meyer's name the name Bill Harvey, another CIA agent; also connected to Meyer's name was the name David Morales, another CIA man and a well-known, vicious black-operations specialist. Then his father connected to Morales's name, with a line, the framed words "French Gunman Grassy Knoll".

So there it was: according to Hunt, LBJ had Kennedy killed. It had long been speculated upon, largely because he was ambitious almost beyond words and it would enable him to rise to the presidency without having to campaign for it. Now Hunt was saying that's the way it was. And that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't the only shooter in Dallas. There was also, on the grassy knoll, a French gunman, presumably the Corsican mafia assassin Lucien Sarti, who has figured prominently in other assassination theories.

"By the time he handed me the paper," Saint says, "I was in a state of shock. His whole life, to me and everyone else, he'd always professed to not know anything about any of it. But I knew this had to be the truth. If my dad was going to make anything up, he'd have made something up about the mafia, or Castro, or Khrushchev. He didn't like Johnson. But you don't falsely implicate your own country, for Christ's sake. My father is old-school, a dyed-in-the-wool patriot, and that's the last thing he'd do."

Later that week, Hunt gave Saint two sheets of paper that contained a fuller narrative. It starts out with LBJ again, connecting him to Cord Meyer, then goes on: "Cord Meyer discusses a plot with [David Atlee] Phillips who brings in Wm Harvey and Antonio Veciana. He meets with Oswald in Mexico City? Then Veciana meets w/Frank Sturgis in Miami and enlists David Morales in anticipation of killing JFK there. But LBJ changes itinerary to Dallas, citing personal reasons."

David Atlee Phillips, the CIA's Cuban operations chief in Miami at the time of JFK's death, knew Hunt from the Guatemala-coup days. Veciana is a member of the Cuban exile community. Sturgis, like Saint's father, is supposed to have been one of the three tramps photographed in Dealey Plaza. Sturgis was also one of the Watergate plotters, and he is a man whom Hunt, under oath, has repeatedly sworn to have not met until Watergate.

In the next few paragraphs, Hunt describes the extent of his own involvement. It revolves around a meeting he claims he attended in 1963 with Morales and Sturgis. It takes place in a Miami hotel room. Here's what happens:

Morales leaves the room, at which point Sturgis makes reference to a "big event" and asks Hunt: "Are you with us?"

Hunt asks Sturgis what he's talking about.

Sturgis says: "Killing JFK."

Hunt, "incredulous", says to Sturgis: "You seem to have everything you need. Why do you need me?" In the handwritten narrative, Sturgis's response is unclear, though what Hunt says to Sturgis next isn't: he says he won't "get involved in anything involving Bill Harvey, who is an alcoholic psycho".

After that, the meeting ends. Hunt goes back to his "normal" life and "like the rest of the country? is stunned by JFK's death and realises how lucky he is not to have had a direct role".

After reading what his father had written, Saint was stunned. A few weeks later, Saint received in the mail a tape recording from his dad. Hunt's voice on the cassette is weak and grasping, but he essentially remakes the same points he made in his handwritten narrative.Soon afterwards, Laura found out what had been going on, and with the help of Hunt's attorney put an end to it. Saint and his father were kept apart and never got a chance to finish what they'd started. Instead, Hunt set about writing his autobiography and turned his back on his son. He wrote him a letter in which he said that Saint's life had been nothing but "meaningless, self-serving instant gratification", that he had never amounted to anything and never would. He asked for his JFK memos back, and Saint returned them, though not before making copies.

There is no way to confirm Hunt's allegations – all but one of the co-conspirators he named are long gone. Saint, for his part, feels his father was lucid when he made his confession and believes, if anything, his father was holding out on him, the old spy keeping a few secrets in reserve, just in case. "There were probably dozens of plots to kill Kennedy, because everybody hated Kennedy but the public," Saint says. "The question is, which one of them worked? My dad always said, 'Thank God one of them worked.' "

In Eureka, Saint has been reading an advance copy of Hunt's autobiography, American Spy. In it, his father looks at LBJ as only one possible person behind the JFK killing, and then only in the most half-hearted, couched and cloaked way. He brings up various other possibilities, too, then debunks each of them.

But of all the shadings and omissions in the book, the only one that truly upsets Saint has to do with the happiest moment in his life, that time in 1972, on the night of the Watergate burglary, when he helped his father dispose of the spy gear, then ran money for him and ditched the typewriter. The way it unfolds in the book, Saint doesn't do anything for his dad. And it's Hunt himself who dumps the typewriter.

"That's a complete lie," Saint says, almost shouting. "I'm the one who helped him that night. Me! And he's robbing me of it. Why?"

Like so many other things, he will never know why, because on January 23, in Miami, the spymaster dies. Later in the day, Saint started reading a few of the obituaries. One starts off: "Sleazebag E Howard Hunt is finally dead."

"Oh, God," Saint says and goes looking for how The New York Times handled his father's death. The obit reads: "Mr Hunt was intelligent, erudite, suave and loyal to his friends. But the record shows that he mishandled many of the tasks he received from the CIA and the White House. He was 'totally self-absorbed, totally amoral and a danger to himself and anybody around him. . . ' "

"Wow," Saint says. "I don't know if I can read these things. That is one brutal obituary."

But the Times is right, of course. Hunt was a danger to anybody around him, and any list of those in danger would always have to include, right at the top, his first-born son, Saint.

©2007, Rolling Stone. First published in Rolling Stone magazine. ® Distributed by Tribune Media Services

© Copyright Times Newspapers Ltd

 

[lkb3rd]

Ex CIA confesses on deathbed to JFK murder conspiracy

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ap ... ession.htm
The link contains picture comparisons of "tramps" taken at the scene and known CIA operatives. It also has a clip of the tape of the confession by E. Howard Hunt, who says he was indeed one of the bums, and involved in the plot led by Lyndon Johnson to kill Kennedy.

JFK Murder Plot "Deathbed Confession" Aired On National Radio
Former CIA agent, Watergate conspirator E. Howard Hunt names the men who killed Kennedy

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Monday, April 30, 2007


The "deathbed confession" audio tape in which former CIA agent and Watergate conspirator E. Howard Hunt admits he was approached to be part of a CIA assassination team to kill JFK was aired this weekend - an astounding development that has gone completely ignored by the establishment media.

Saint John Hunt, son of E. Howard Hunt, appeared on the nationally syndicated Coast to Coast Live radio show on Saturday night to discuss the revelations contained in the tape.

Hunt said that his father had mailed cassette the tape to him alone in January 2004 and asked that it be released after his death. The tape was originally 20 minutes long but was edited down to four and a half minutes for the Coast to Coast broadcast. Hunt promises that the whole tape will be uploaded soon at his website.

Click here to listen to a clip of the tape.

E. Howard Hunt names numerous individuals with both direct and indirect CIA connections as having played a role in the assassination of Kennedy, while describing himself as a "bench warmer" in the plot. Saint John Hunt agreed that the use of this term indicates that Hunt was willing to play a larger role in the murder conspiracy had he been required.

Hunt alleges on the tape that then Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson was involved in the planning of the assassination and in the cover-up, stating that LBJ, "Had an almost maniacal urge to become president, he regarded JFK as an obstacle to achieving that."



Asked if his father followed the conspiracy theories into the Kennedy assassination, Saint John said the elder Hunt did follow the work of AJ Weberman, a New York freelance writer, who in the early 70's first accused Hunt of being one of three bums who were arrested in Dealy Plaza. The so-called bums (pictured above) were interrogated and later released by authorities shortly after the assassination. Weberman, one of the founders of the Youth International Party, the Vippies, published photographs of the tramps and found that two of them bore striking similarities to Hunt and Frank Sturgis, also named by Hunt in the tape as having been played a role in the assassination conspiracy.



Asked for his opinion as to whether his father was indeed one of the Dealy Plaza tramps, Saint John, in a stunning revelation, said one of the tramps indeed looked much like his father did in 1963 (see comparison above).



CIA operative Frank Stugis' striking resemblance to one of the "tramps".



Other researchers believe the "Hunt tramp" to really be Chauncey Holt, who apparently later confessed to the fact. Charles Harrelson was allegedly identified as the third tramp.

Saint John Hunt said that shortly before his death, his father had felt "deeply conflicted and deeply remorseful" that he didn't blow the whistle on the plot at the time and prevent the assassination, but that everyone in the government hated Kennedy and wanted him gone in one way or another. Kennedy's promise to "shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter the remnants to the wind" was being carried out and this infuriated almost everyone at the agency.

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Hunt also said that his mother's death in a December 8, 1972 plane crash in Chicago was suspicious and that there was evidence of a White House cover-up surrounding the circumstances of the alleged accident.

Investigators discovered $10,000 dollars in her luggage and Hunt alleged that his mother traveled around the country using Nixon campaign money to payoff the families of the Watergate burglars to keep them quiet about the involvement of the Nixon White House in the Watergate break-in and cover-up.

Hunt cited numerous coincidences surrounding the aftermath of the crash, including Nixon's appointment of his henchman, Egil Krough, to the National Transportation Safety Board which investigates plane crashes, the very day after the incident.



Eyewitnesses reported that the plane exploded above treetop level before it had even hit the runway.

Hunt said that "at least 20-25 FBI members," as well as numerous DIA agents were at the scene of the crash within minutes before rescue personnel had even arrived, and that this fact was attested to in a letter sent by the head of the Chicago FBI to investigator Sherman Skolnick.

Hunt said that his safety was guaranteed by the dissemination of the tape and that he had several copies and had mailed others to addresses both abroad and in the U.S.

"Once this information is out there's really no point in anyone trying to do me in or do me wrong - someone may try to discredit me but I have no skeletons in my closet," said Hunt.

As we have previously reported, the night before the Kennedy assassination, Lyndon Baines Johnson met with Dallas tycoons, FBI moguls and organized crime kingpins - emerging from the conference to tell his mistress Madeleine Duncan Brown that "those SOB's" would never embarrass him again.

Though Brown first went public on her 21-year relationship with Johnson in the early 80's, to this day her shocking revelations about how he had told her the Kennedy's "would never embarrass me again" the night before the assassination are often ignored by the media who prefer to keep the debate focused on issues which can't definitively be proven either way (or at least can be spun and whitewashed).


George Herbert Walker Bush was also pictured at the scene of the crime in Dealy Plaza.

In addition, Barr McClellan, father of former White House press secretary Scott McClellan and a partner in the Austin law firm that represented Johnson, wrote in his 2003 book that LBJ was a key player in the organization of the assassination and its cover-up. McClellan's revelations were the subject of a subsequent History Channel documentary called The Guilty Men.

(With thanks to additional reporting by David Collins

(edited to include the full article text)

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

This story has been discussed here and here.

 

[lkb3rd]

The tape was just released this week.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

The tape was just released this week.

True but it ties in with the theme of these threads.

 

[techybloke666]

lkb3rd wrote:
The tape was just released this week.


True but it ties in with the theme of these threads.

Its still very good Ted

Why don't you give your view instead of being awkward ?

 

[Jerry_B]

It doesn't really sound like it makes much sense to me. For example, the bit where it says '[...]in order to topple Kennedy and save the CIA from being splintered into a thousand pieces, as JFK had promised.' - Carter chopped up the CIA and fired many of it's staff, and no-one assassinated him. Stories like this just seem to be another layer being added the 'good guy' mythology that's grown up around Kennedy.

 

[techybloke666]

Jerry wrote
It doesn't really sound like it makes much sense to me. For example, the bit where it says '[...]in order to topple Kennedy and save the CIA from being splintered into a thousand pieces, as JFK had promised.' - Carter chopped up the CIA and fired many of it's staff, and no-one assassinated him. Stories like this just seem to be another layer being added the 'good guy' mythology that's grown up around Kennedy.

Your comparing oranges with grapes Jerry

What about the photo's could they be the people he said they were ?
If they are not then its pretty clear he made it up for some reason.

If the three tramps were those three , why were they arrested and then let go ?

If they were on a "protect the president" mission in secret
Why were they arrested at all ?

Where were the three accused offically on the day ?
were they in Dallas , who saw them if they were else where.

 

[lkb3rd]

Personally i believe this guy. He says his wife was murdered by CIA, and he may have kept his mouth shut during his life to protect the rest of his family. He does indeed say he was worried about his remaining family. Since you can't kill a dead guy's family to intimidate him to keep quiet, he admitted to it when he knew he was dying.

 

[Jerry_B]

Your comparing oranges with grapes Jerry

Not at all. If the main premise behind the assassination of JFK was to do with what he had planned for the CIA, logically the CIA would've also tried to bump off Carter - after all, he actually did put the boot in WRT the CIA.

What about the photo's could they be the people he said they were ?
If they are not then its pretty clear he made it up for some reason.

If the three tramps were those three , why were they arrested and then let go ?

If they were on a "protect the president" mission in secret
Why were they arrested at all ?

Where were the three accused offically on the day ?
were they in Dallas , who saw them if they were else where.

Questions you should redirect to the relevant thread - if they haven't been raised already.

 

[techybloke666]

Questions you should redirect to the relevant thread - if they haven't been raised already.

Nice move, very graceful

10 out of 10

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

Questions you should redirect to the relevant thread - if they haven't been raised already.

Nice move, very graceful

10 out of 10

To be fair, Techy, there's no need to have several threads open at the one time on the same topic. I'm sure you could come up with a theory about trying to avoid facts posted on the other threads with the new ones acting as a diversion if you put your mind to it.

 

[techybloke666]

I'm sure you could come up with a theory about trying to avoid facts posted on the other threads with the new ones acting as a diversion if you put your mind to it.

you beat me to it Ted

 

[Jerry_B]

Nice move, very graceful

10 out of 10

Thanks. Now all you have to do is go an check the relevant threads to see if the questions you asked have been discussed before, as they're seperate to this particular thread..

 

[crunchy5]

Nice move, very graceful

10 out of 10

Thanks. Now all you have to do is go an check the relevant threads to see if the questions you asked have been discussed before, as they're seperate to this particular thread..

Or indeed Jerry you could do it all techy is doing is having a chat you are the "guy" always banging on about proof or relevancy as if you were the final arbiter.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

Or indeed Jerry you could do it all techy is doing is having a chat you are the "guy" always banging on about proof or relevancy as if you were the final arbiter.

Nice move, very graceful.

10 out of 10

 

[lkb3rd]

Hey, i apologize for starting a new thread, but with the tape just being released, i saw that there was nothing visible about it so i started this new one. Perhaps they could be merged? I was surprised to see nothing new about it honestly. This is the conspiracy forum, and this one is a doozy.

 

[Jerry_B]

No - IMHO this new stuff deserves it's own thread. It's only the questions Techy raised about other areas that have probably been covered in other threads.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

No - IMHO this new stuff deserves it's own thread.

The first link here:

This story has been discussed here and here.

Is "On deathbed, E. Howard Hunt claims LBJ ordered JFK hit" I don't realy know if we need to get so fine-grained as to have wo threads on one man's death bed confession. Especially as this one appears to be largely avoiding discussing the subject.

There are some solutions:

1. I merge the whole thread.

2. I snip lkb3rd's first post and any relevant discussion and add it to the other thread on the understanding that we discuss the subject.

3. We let this one rattle on as it is getting further from the point and deeper into cheap point scoring territory.

Also on Woody Harrelson's dad:

Charles “Chuck” Harrelson, who died in a Colorado maximum security jail last month, left a bundle of papers to his three sons with a plea to clear him of murdering a judge. But he admits in the memoir that he was involved in dozens of killings stretching back to the early 1960s.

...

Prosecutors said Harrelson, a violent thief and killer for hire in his twenties, was unusual because he used a sniper rifle rather than a handgun.

...

Harrelson even boasted ... that he had shot President John F Kennedy in Dallas in 1963. He claimed to have been one of three men dressed as tramps on the grassy knoll close to the Kennedy cavalcade and said that Lee Harvey Oswald, the presumed assassin, was too far away from the president to get a clear shot.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us ... 626531.ece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Harrelson

Of course Fred Crisman (of Maury Island crash fame) also claimed to be one of the tramps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Crisman

It was probably the in thing at one point.

 

[Jerry_B]

Okay then, a merge sounds good to me

 

[crunchy5]

As does the Woody Harrelson angle, well done Emps

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Yes that angle is skated over with some picture comparisons that may or may not show... something and this:

Charles Harrelson was allegedly identified as the third tramp.

But the fact that he confessed, he was a known killer, he was one of the few contract killers who used a sniper, etc. plus the possible picture identification make for interesting reading (and doesn't he look like Woody in those younfer photos??).

The relevant bit of the Wikipedia page:

Harrelson has declared that he was involved in John F. Kennedy's assassination. Some think he was one of the three tramps photographed after being arrested on November 22, 1963, in a boxcar in the railyard near Dealey Plaza. Harrelson's arresting officer, Marvin L. Wise, claims that the three men in his custody were released after a few hours of questioning. The other arresting officer, David V. Harkness, testified that there were several individuals removed from the train that day other than the three individuals in the photograph. Dallas Police Department documents presented to the public in 1992 indicate that three transients arrested by Dallas officer W.E. Chambers with no connection to the assassination were jailed for six days for vagrancy, and that one of those men was named John Gedney.

Okay then, a merge sounds good to me

A merge it is.

Can we try and address the topic of the thread though? There are threads dealing with the broader JFK issue. If it wanders I can just merge them all together but as it stands this is an interesting angle that is currently worth exploring on its own merits.

 

[Analis]

Jerry_B: "Not at all. If the main premise behind the assassination of JFK was to do with what he had planned for the CIA, logically the CIA should have tried to bump off Carter."
The context was different. But I have a problem with such reasoning. Often, human behaviour is not "logical" at all. Have a look at the news. Working from the premise, that human behaviour is always "logical", some conclude, for example, that the Holocaust never existed. Or that the Syrians couldn't kill Rafic Hariri or Pierre Gemayel. Indeed, from a "logical" viewpoint, none of these events should have existed. I suppose the "logical" conclusion is that their proponents are conspiracy nuts...

 

[Jerry_B]

Hmm - I wasn't painting things in such broad terms. It seems to me that, if the CIA killed Kennedy because of his plans for the CIA, it's odd that they didn't also dispose of Carter, who actually went ahead and did alot more 'damage' to the CIA. Thee have been many alleged reasons for killing Kennedy, but this particular one doesn't really add up IMHO.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

Jerry_B: "Not at all. If the main premise behind the assassination of JFK was to do with what he had planned for the CIA, logically the CIA should have tried to bump off Carter."
The context was different. But I have a problem with such reasoning. Often, human behaviour is not "logical" at all. Have a look at the news. Working from the premise, that human behaviour is always "logical", some conclude, for example, that the Holocaust never existed. Or that the Syrians couldn't kill Rafic Hariri or Pierre Gemayel. Indeed, from a "logical" viewpoint, none of these events should have existed. I suppose the "logical" conclusion is that their proponents are conspiracy nuts...

Not neccessarily. Seemingly irrational decisions can be logical when they're made on a false but accepted presence. Essentially it depends on the context. As you've rightfully pointed out, though, the contexts regarding Carter and Kennedy were different.

Bush senior was the head of CIA when Carter came to power and remained so, iirc. I'm not too familiar with Carter's attitude to the CIA or what his relationship with Bush was like but far be it from me to accuse him of being involved in a conspiracy concerning JFK.