Ley Lines

bakelite brain said:
bent-coat-hangers-in-old-pens arrangement?
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This has been an oft-repeated procedural technique, presumably wherein to eliminate biofeedback effects from the holding party's hands (playing devil's advocate, I think it would still permit, indeed, magnify) subconscious shoulder and forearm movements. There will have been a first-ever televisual broadcast of this 'pseudoscientificated' version of browsing, back in the classic early 3C+C4 days of TV, I do think it would've been a significantly-affirming and imprinting experience to have seen the programme.

You've got me most intriged about the light-slit silver box (which, genuinely or not, seems strongly-familiar to me....perhaps it's a metamemory). The presence of a reflector/lightsource and columnator slit, pushing out a beam of coherent brightness across a mile or more of darkened heath and moor is a powerful image, but: does this become almost a 'homeopathic' physics experiment? What putative lasting effect is striped across the land? It's a 1:1 scale photonic picture, lasting a short time within our visual spectrum...if only it somehow could be proven to be more.
 
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bakelite brain said:
BTW, how wide is a 'real' ley line supposed to be? They look impressive on maps, but with Google Earth one can see the 'aligning sites' are in a very wide line!
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That's good question. I worked on the basis that the 'line' was 10m wide, based on an initial pair of 'points' However, if you (say) take two 10m lines bases on the maximum error on one point and minimum on the other and then work the other way around, you find a great big swath of area 'in the middle' between the two 'lines' So with two 10m wide points, you've got a lot of possible 'lines'.

So (I said to myself) one can then make the width '20m', '30m' etc. to close this down, but the conclusion you arrive at after running a few sets of map data is "A wider line-width gets you more alignments". a 1m 'line width' never aligned anything up at all...

It simply not possible to plot a single line with anything like accuracy from (say) two tumuli which are 10m and 15m wide respectively...Even the idea that you can plot a line and then measure just the perpendicular distance of a third point from it is undermined by the error on the initial two points.

The only way might be to take a good GPS to a site and get a bang on long/lat from the centers. Assuming there is one and you can calculate it and get to it.

Like I said before the only conclusion I drew was you get more lines if you have more data points. A corollary to that might be that "You can't measure anything accurately enough to prove a line exists anyway".
 
Ermintrude said:
This has been an oft-repeated procedural technique, presumably wherein to eliminate biofeedback effects from the holding party's hands (playing devil's advocate, I think it would still permit, indeed, magnify) subconscious shoulder and forearm movements. There will have been a first-ever televisual broadcast of this 'pseudoscientificated' version of browsing, back in the classic early 3C+C4 days of TV, I do think it would've been a significantly-affirming and imprinting experience to have seen the programme.
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I tired this as a youth and thought it worked, the movements of the rods felt quite real. So I single-blind attempted to find water pipes under a courtyard, then checked my 'reading's with plans (where I worked). Nope. I 'found' nothing.

Ermintrude said:
You've got me most intriged about the light-slit silver box (which, genuinely or not, seems strongly-familiar to me....perhaps it's a metamemory). The presence of a reflector/lightsource and columnator slit, pushing out a beam of coherent brightness across a mile or more of darkened heath and moor is a powerful image, but: does this become almost a 'homeopathic' physics experiment? What putative lasting effect is striped across the land? It's a 1:1 scale photonic picture, lasting a short time within our visual spectrum...if only it somehow could be proven to be more.
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I like that idea, I might try that to see how good the beam is.
 
one of the issues with "how wide is a leyline" is that the answer changes depending on when it was identified, or when you asked the question.

Leys started off being physical pathways for trade and travel. More recently they turned into spirit paths, and single purpose pathways for transporting coffins.

and the physical requirements/characteristics changed through time.

I accept that Ley Lines aren't "real". But they most certainly are in my own psycho-geography! :drink:
 
Frideswide said:
one of the issues with "how wide is a leyline" is that the answer changes depending on when it was identified, or when you asked the question.

Leys started off being physical pathways for trade and travel. More recently they turned into spirit paths, and single purpose pathways for transporting coffins.

and the physical requirements/characteristics changed through time.

I accept that Ley Lines aren't "real". But they most certainly are in my own psycho-geography! :drink:
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I d

I don't know if its that recently they have turned into spirit paths, I came across this regarding the Scottish song ... http://www.darachweb.net/SongLyrics/LochLomond.html
 
rynner2 said:
Mont St Michel is actually over a hundred miles south of the St Michael Line (although it does have historical links with Cornwall's St Michael's Mount).

The map on the spiralwave website illustrates the problem with leylines - these sites are not on the same straight line! So which sites are included is purely subjective.

My computer progs had a variable 'error factor', and - surprise, surprise - the larger the error I allowed, the more leys I found!

What really convinced me that leys are just random alignments was the fact that I found just as many when I used things like phone boxes and pubs/hotels instead of ancient sites like churches, etc!

EDIT: The fact that the St Michael line is one of the longest lines in southern Britain is the reason it contains so many sites. My analysis of Cornish sites found many more leys with a SW-NE orientation - purely because this reflects the shape of the peninsular. (A NW-SE direction quickly ends up in the sea!)
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I happened to see part of a BBC tv programme tonight that had some quite-stunning footage taken by drone camera whilst a group of modern-day pilgrams stride out the 7km over the sands to the iconic Mont St Michel (see http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08y6771 ) .

No mention in this Christian tv programme of ley lines (of course) but plenty of explanations regarding the historical and ancient religious links between Mont St Michel and the Cornish version (both island, and priory) at St. Michael's Mount, near Land's End (@rynner2 you may be interested).

It's many years since I was down near the Cornish 'Michaelmount', and also quite a while since I was drawing attention to the new-to-me historical/geographical parallels between these two places (all of which I was quite-oblivious to, but are in reality fully-documented). A link to my previous post on this... http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/the-lone-coastguard-ii.58311/page-17#post-1496024

2017-07-09 22.19.12.png


It's fascinating to hear that the French Abbot sent the Saint Michel island over the Channel to Cornish St. Michael's Mount, to toughen them up.

Anyway: I know there is a lot of doubt and discreditation regarding ley lines, but they still fascinate me (even if they become totally-debunked, they are still interesting concepts).

The St Michael (Ley) Line is an especially-interesting one (yes, I know, any points can be joined-up to form conjuctions and lines, but it is still intriguing).

6047282919_7dd9dd41f7_b.jpg

And in any case, it's a long time since we've had any ley line lore upon the Forum (who knows, it might ignite an article within the pages of FT itself, on this quintessentially-Fortean topic).

I was intrigued to read in this article http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/527-the-st-michael-line-a-straight-story that allegedly The Line also passes through Mont St Michel, over in France.

Now, I do doubt this: but, the idea is so gripping as a concept, and magnified by those intrepid BBC Songs of Praise pilgrims tonight striding along the water/sand in a 7km straight line to Mont St Michel, perhaps with a straight line behind them, all the way to Land's End and Hopton/Bury St Edmunds...well, it was all just a bit of a Fortean moment.:cool:

Please do pitch-in with your opinions / perspectives / responses. As I'm sure you will!
 
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Not syre if this is the right place but it does touch upon ley lines...

I watched this video over the weekend and thought it was very good.

Worth starting at approx 15 minutes to see if it is of any interest and then going back and starting from the beginning where it is a bit technical

 
Mmm. Some interesting stuff about magnetism, although neither diamagnetism nor paramagnetism are 'new categories of magnetism' as described in the inserted video. He's also someone who throws 'frequency' about without understanding the concept. I stopped watching when he just made up nonsense about "every light frequency has a sound frequency attached to it". And not one person in the audience stood up and asked him to explain that! How are these frequencies matched? What sound frequency is 600 Angstroms - a very specific orange? What colour is 7.78 Hz or 27 kHz?

It's as bad as those charlatans who go about talking about 'energy fields' without understanding the phrase or defining anything about it. (Oh, I just skipped forward at random and guess what? He's waffling on about "energy generating devices". No definition of this energy of course...)

A classic example of pseudo science paraded in front of a willing but uncritical audience.

Sorry XBerMann, you posted it in good faith I'm sure...
 
I've always found the concept of ley lines fascinating. In the 1970s a friend and I got an OS map of the Isle on Mann and drew up dozens of sites in lines of more than four. IoM was good as it has not been greatly developed. Although I did wonder that if we'd chosen sweet shops, post offices, cross roads and petrol stations we'd also get plenty of lines!

Can anyone tell me how wide a ley line is? Drawing stuff on OS maps can look impressive, until you look more carefully on Google Maps or Google Earth and discover these objects/sacred sites are not in very straight lines al all.

I remember a TV documentary 30-odd years ago where they laid down a temporary ley line to be detected by dowsers. They used a wooden box lined with aluminium foil. In the box was a bight car headlamp. On one side of the box was a slot about an inch wide in the foil lining. The dowsers couldn't detect it after a week or so.

Sounds like an excellent experiment to recreate. Does anyone remember the TV programme?
 
bakelite brain said:
I remember a TV documentary 30-odd years ago where they laid down a temporary ley line to be detected by dowsers. They used a wooden box lined with aluminium foil. In the box was a bight car headlamp. On one side of the box was a slot about an inch wide in the foil lining. The dowsers couldn't detect it after a week or so.
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Why would they?
 
bakelite brain said:
Why would they what? I guess the premise was that whatever a ley line is, it can be detected by dowsers and this man-made one fades away. Of course one has to assume the whole thing was not faked,..
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Why would they detect it? It's not a ley line.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Why would they detect it? It's not a ley line.
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They did supposedly detect it for a while, that's the point. Whatever a ley line is, the field detectable by dowsers can be laid down artificially. But then perhaps you can explain what a ley line consists of - assuming they are nothing more than alignments of sites and not also 'energy' lines.
 
bakelite brain said:
They did supposedly detect it for a while, that's the point. Whatever a ley line is, the field detectable by dowsers can be laid down artificially. But then perhaps you can explain what a ley line consists of - assuming they are nothing more than alignments of sites and not also 'energy' lines.
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I have no idea what a ley line might be, but I suspect it is just a route that many people have travelled for reasons best known to themselves. They are usually routes between notable landmarks and places of historical significance. Perhaps over time, some of that 'human experience' or (as woo people might say) 'energies' may have been stored like a 'stone tape' along those routes?
I find it hard to believe that myself, mind - I have no idea how that would work scientifically.
 
I don't think it would work scientifically - weren't ley lines made up in the 1930s?
 
GNC said:
I don't think it would work scientifically - weren't ley lines made up in the 1930s?
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The use of landmarks and other sites as guides for trading or pilgrimage routes may well be prehistoric, but I suspect you're right about the other woo now associated with them which started relatively recently.
 
bakelite brain said:
Mmm. Some interesting stuff about magnetism, although neither diamagnetism nor paramagnetism are 'new categories of magnetism' as described in the inserted video. He's also someone who throws 'frequency' about without understanding the concept. I stopped watching when he just made up nonsense about "every light frequency has a sound frequency attached to it". And not one person in the audience stood up and asked him to explain that! How are these frequencies matched? What sound frequency is 600 Angstroms - a very specific orange? What colour is 7.78 Hz or 27 kHz?

It's as bad as those charlatans who go about talking about 'energy fields' without understanding the phrase or defining anything about it. (Oh, I just skipped forward at random and guess what? He's waffling on about "energy generating devices". No definition of this energy of course...)

A classic example of pseudo science paraded in front of a willing but uncritical audience.

Sorry XBerMann, you posted it in good faith I'm sure...
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Thanks for your input I am an investment banker by trade so the techie stuff was above my pay grade meaning I have to take it as it comes or ignore it.

I obviously should have ignored this one
 
stu neville said:
Yes, we do have a thread, already (it's here, stickied, three above this one in the forum list at the time of writing, perhaps misleadingly entitled "Ley Lines".) But all that said, I just think this one really, really deserves to stand alone for the moment..
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stu neville said:
It's OK, I've linked to that one anyway. I think this one could be quite special. ...
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IMHO the moment has passed, and the separate "Ley lines (My thoughts)" thread is no longer justified. It's now merged into the original Ley Lines thread.
 
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XBergMann said:
Thanks for your input I am an investment banker by trade so the techie stuff was above my pay grade meaning I have to take it as it comes or ignore it.
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If you want some pedantry--
Sound is a mechanical wave. It must perpetuate through a medium of matter, like air, or ground. It does so at varying speeds (unlike light) and wavelengths. Movement can induce sound, like wind causing a bridge to resonate, because wavelengths can match up with physical input.
Light doesn't have that. It doesn't even need a medium to propagate through. In fact, matter can block it-- it doesn't have the physical interaction that things need to produce sound. It can't even transfer energy in a way to produce sound; only heat. Light would need to be able to produce orderly motion in a large-scale amount of matter to make sound. Since heat energy is inherently a random motion, that doesn't happen.
Sound also decays into heat, but that's as the atoms it's propagating through lose their order.
 
Anonymous said:
The alledged St Michael's Ley runs from Marazion in Cornwall to the arse end of England in Norfolk and beyond.
What is interesting is that the Churches on hills found along this Ley - St Michael's Mount, Brentor & Glastonbury are all named after St Michael and all sites of ancient worship which have had contemporary Xtian churches erected.
This Ley also encompasses the Avebury stones and Silbury Hill, again all important ancient sites - one could be forgiven for thinking that there may be something odd going on..............
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It has been claimed that a straight-line alignment along "Michael" place names travels from Ireland and Cornwall all the way to Jerusalem:

michael.png


I've also seen similar claims for ley lines extending throughout Europe, linking places with variations of the name Alice, Alicia, Alais, Aix-en-Provence, Aachen etc. (etymology apparently meaning noble spring or waters). Saw an illustration in an old book to support this claim once, but cannot find an online link.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
It has been claimed that a straight-line alignment along "Michael" place names travels from Ireland and Cornwall all the way to Jerusalem:

View attachment 55934

I've also seen similar claims for ley lines extending throughout Europe, linking places with variations of the name Alice, Alicia, Alais, Aix-en-Provence, Aachen etc. (etymology apparently meaning noble spring or waters). Saw an illustration in an old book to support this claim once, but cannot find an online link.
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"In Catholic writings and traditions he acts as the defender of the Church and chief opponent of Satan...

Saint Michael is viewed as the commander of the Army of God.

Only Michael is called an archangel in the Bible.

Of all the angels, Michael was by far the most important in the Middle Ages.

Devotions to Saint Michael have a large Catholic following, and a number of churches are dedicated to him worldwide."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Michael_in_the_Catholic_Church

Churches named after Michael.

Another list of scores of such churches.

My point? Michael was a church superstar, and has loads of places and buildings named after him. Pick the right selection, ignore the fact that 2D maps can't accurately reflect a 3D planet and allow just a leeeetle leeway in your mapping, and Robert's yer father's brother: A ley line!

maximus otter
 
If those lines were projected onto a globe they wouldn't be straight.
 
St Michael is also commonly associated with churches which are located on top of hills, mounts and high places (whether artificial or not). I can well believe that some artificial mounds or specially chosen peaks have been deliberately aligned to be co-linear with other such churches; but this has nothing to do with magnetic fields or 'earth energies'.
Some St Michaels:
st-michaels-church-brentor-near-tavistock-1143721.jpg

640px-England-Saint-Michaels-Mount-1900-1.jpg

640px-Mont-Saint-Michel_vu_du_ciel.jpg

640px-0_1138_Le_Puy-en-Velay_%28Frankreich%29_-_Saint-Michel-d%27Aiguiihe.jpg

640px-Burrow_Mump_and_St_Micheal.jpeg

640px-Glastonbury_Tor-_View_of_an_iconic_landmark_%28geograph_5500644%29.jpg
 
maximus otter said:
My point? Michael was a church superstar, and has loads of places and buildings named after him. Pick the right selection, ignore the fact that 2D maps can't accurately reflect a 3D planet and allow just a leeeetle leeway in your mapping, and Robert's yer father's brother: A ley line!
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A progam I wrote to evaluate 'ley line' probability (I've mentioned this before), showed that the wider the 'ley line' was, the more aligments there were...not a great surprise.
 
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