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LobeliaOverhill's Abduction Experience

LobeliaOverhill said:
but Bann, fairies are totally different creatures to the one's I saw ... :)
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I guess I see your point. Alright, "alien" works for me. My aliens looked like BVMs (Blessed Virgin Marys) with some grey or insectiod thrown in. I thought of them as "angels" (I didn't know about aliens at the time of this experience, and even when I did learn about the alien phenomena it was years before I made the connection in my mind between them and my experience).
 
Flash and Banik ment fairy under a broader clasifacation than just flower faireys I think, perhaps what you saw could have been some sort of changeling?
 
LobeliaOverhill said:
So... if it wasn't alien abduction, what was it? Who was that skinny armed man with the glass wand? who were those fat nekked tan men in the living room? Where did I get those bruises from? Why did I wake up with a stiff neck and my back out? why do I have a "thingy" that you associate with childbirth?

I still haven't gotten a straight answer out of anyone ever on the subject
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OK from the top:

1. If we interpret it as a 'waking dream' then the 'fat tan' would be a manifestation/distillation of the general anxieties you said you were feeling. I am interest in the concept of the 'fat tan' would it be what people in ealier times would descibe as some kind of goblin I ownder?

2. Bruises - I'm not sure if I mentioned it in my account but after my night had dream I had bruises on my upper arms where the creature had been holding me down. It freaked me completely out but when I was going to bed the next night I realised that I sort of fold my arms under pillow and my hands are in a posiiton to grip my upper arms (there was also some boisterous pub-reated tomfoolery which could also have bruised me). Often bruises take a time to develop so you could have knocked yourself (possibly without realising or connecting it with later bruises) and it developed in your sleep. I have a stack of forensic books on the floor - I'll skim them to see if there is any relevant info)

3. Putting your back out - I have often woken up feeling like I've been in a fight (or at least under the ministrations of an over enthusiastic Swedish massuese). I would imagine sleep scientists have observed people getting pretty contorted in their sleep.

4. You decribed the medical issue thus:

I have a "thing" in my "y'know"
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I'm not a medical man so could you describe that in laymans terms? :)

That said I would tend to give my experiences a more rational/scientific spin - I wonder if that is really anymore valid an interpretation (except you should try and rule out simple explanations before developing more complex ones requiring a whole raft of extra ssumptions).

Emps
 
backs are funny things... if I sleep with my back at the wrong angle I can get a trapped nerve which can result in agony with the slightest movement and go on for months, then one morning I can wake up and it's gone.
 
Originally posted by Emperor
OK from the top:

1. If we interpret it as a 'waking dream' then the 'fat tan' would be a manifestation/distillation of the general anxieties you said you were feeling. I am interest in the concept of the 'fat tan' would it be what people in earlier times would describe as some kind of goblin I wonder?
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general anxieties? in a 5-7 year old? hmmm ... interesting, do go on emps :)
I don't think I became anxious till I was in my teens.
Perhaps that incident is why I don't like being hit on by short men?!?
Doesn't explain my fondness for baldies tho' ...

2. Bruises -
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one on back of elbow is awkward place to hit myself off anything ... other on inside of knee, again awkward place to hit, and since it's boney I'd have felt it. The bruises were identical 2 in in diameter perfectly circular, very dark "black" bruises, no tenderness. 5-6 year gap between appearances ...

3. Putting your back out -
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Is something I can do very easily. First time I clearly remember it happened I was staying at my friend's house, I was fine when I went to bed and the next morning I could barely move, we had a ding dong arguement as to how I'd put my back out lying in bed asleep all night, and never came up with a logical answer. (she also spotted the bruise on my arm - and we nearly came to blows over how I got that).

4. I'm not a medical man so could you describe that in layman's terms? :)
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give us 50 quid and I'll show yer it fnarr fnarr. I haven't checked of late, but it's a prolapse of the bit before ones womb ...

That said I would tend to give my experiences a more rational/scientific spin - I wonder if that is really anymore valid an interpretation (except you should try and rule out simple explanations before developing more complex ones requiring a whole raft of extra assumptions).
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well me and my friend had two or three whomping great arguments over my bruises and waking up barely able to walk, and none of the explanations fit ...
 
A piece of experimentation was once carried out where a young male subject was exposed to an electromagnetic field applied to the brain. The effects were partly similar to an NDE, but he also reported seeing thin "waxy" grey figures, very similar to the "grey" alien commonly reported. There were definitely no aliens in the room, but he saw it. One suggestion is that this alien, and indeed maybe other types, are psychological archetypes buried deep within the human psyche, and sometimes external stimuli, or perhaps some kind of mental anxiety or dream state, may bring them to the fore. This is all just theory, obviously, but the fact it is repeatable is striking. It may even relate to the hag archetype, the old man archetype, and the ghostly hitch-hiker archetype who gets in the car only to disappear, or the phantom who walks out in front of a car only to vanish.
Psychological effect, or shade of a dead person choosing that exact moment to walk out in front of the car of someone late at night on a lonely country road? I prefer the least energy solution, but have no conclusive proof either way just yet.
 
LobeliaOverhill said:
general anxieties? in a 5-7 year old? hmmm ... interesting, do go on emps :)
I don't think I became anxious till I was in my teens.
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Well this from just before your description of the encounter:

I used to be scared out of my mind of going in there at night. I'd go down to the living room to ask someone to take me to the loo, this usually involved an arguement about me being big enough to wipe my own arse, and ended with me pissing or crapping in my jimmy-jams.
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Would have certainly made me tense, anxious, scared, apprehensive, etc.

The bruises certainly are odd - have you mentioned them to a doctor in case they are a symptom of something.

So somehting like a prolapsed cervix? Nasty but I don't really know much about 'that kind of thng' I had a look around and got a bit overwhelmed - like this?

http://www.gynob.com/utepro.htm

Emps
 
LobeliaOverhill said:
general anxieties? in a 5-7 year old? hmmm ... interesting, do go on emps :)
I don't think I became anxious till I was in my teens.
Perhaps that incident is why I don't like being hit on by short men?!?
Doesn't explain my fondness for baldies tho' ...
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When I was that age I was intimidated by those weird goggles that dentists sometimes wear when doing intricate work. I had a psychic vampire experience in which that came into play. The vampire came through my window one night and was wearing those same goggles. He inserted them into my right side and sucked all my strength and will out through them as I was laying there. My point is you may have had anxieties over something (like I did over the doc's weird glasses that he used as he examined me) at that age even if you don't remember them now. In fact, you may not remember them because you blocked them out of your conscious awareness.
 
Originally posted by Emperor
Well from just before your description of the encounter:
Would have certainly made me tense, anxious, scared, apprehensive, etc.
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erm, not so sure ... I best remember two occasions that I didn't want to go to the bathroom myself. I came downstairs and started jumping up and down, d'mother started arguing with me and I wet myself, I did this again 3 more times the same night. Another night I need a poo-poo and she refused to come to the bathroom with me and I left a lickle brown message on the carpet. I'm not sure any fear of retribution caused me to hallucinate little fat nekked tan men ... :eek!!!!:

The bruises certainly are odd - have you mentioned them to a doctor in case they are a symptom of something.
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don't think I have. Haven't had one in years (at least not that I've seen ...

So something like a prolapsed cervix? Nasty but I don't really know much about 'that kind of thing' I had a look around and got a bit overwhelmed - like this?
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Oh dear lordy no! my bundoon is not out, it's a slightly different thing .... first doc who saw it went :eek!!!!: and stammered that it was odd ... 3 doctors later I was told it was a word I can't remember and it's something to do with childbirth, I've asked two doctors to explain how come I've got it and not been answered. Oh but it did appear (or I first realised it was there) after an odd dream I had where I was giving birth to nothing while sitting in a "pool" of blood ... :eek:
 
Bannik said:
When I was that age I was intimidated by those weird goggles that dentists sometimes wear when doing intricate work.
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not in the late 60's/early 70's they didn't ...
 
alb said:
...

EDIT: AM - stop with the quips. If you have something useful to add then say it. Do you believe that Lobelia was abducted? Or do you believe that it is an impression which remains in her mind for some interesting reason.

Answer or be silent, for once.
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Originally Posted By Emperor
To answer for AM (hope you don't mind) - but are they mutually exlcusive.

...
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Why thank you for answering on my behalf, Emperor.

Or, were you apologising to Alb?

However, I was not quipping. I was simply trying to draw Alb's attention to the possibility that he was trying to ellicit an answer from Lobelia which would merely confirm his own preconceptions and predjudices, rather than provide a true explanation for the phenomena which Lobelia appears to have experienced.

...

And in reference to Alb's remark, "Answer or be silent, for once."

Perhaps, Alb does not really understand that it is in the very nature of a discourse, on the 'Fortean Times Message Board (or elsewhere), that two, or more people can be involved in discussion. This requires a level of give and take. Nor should he believe that he can simply demand anything of anyone, unless he should become a Mod.

Perhaps, in Alb's world, he is more used to expounding his own internal monologue, without fear of contradiction. To receive critical answers of subtlety in reply, which may even be beyond his mental grasp and comprehension, must be very galling for him. :(
 
Any owls/cats/birds at the window remembered?

No missing time?

The thin armed man with the glass wand, what was he doing again?

mooks out
 
LobeliaOverhill said:
not in the late 60's/early 70's they didn't ...
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I was using that as an example of one of my anxieties.
 
I hope I'm not offending you with any of my posts, Lobiela. I find these experiences interesting which is why I was sharing some of mine with you. I'm not trying to convince you that your interpretation is wrong and that mine are right, just sharing how I interepreate (I can never spell that correctly) my own similar experiences. I know it can be difficult to share such things on a public forum.:)
 
Bannik said:
I hope I'm not offending you with any of my posts, Lobiela. I find these experiences interesting which is why I was sharing some of mine with you. I'm not trying to convince you that your interpretation is wrong and that mine are right, just sharing how I interepreate (I can never spell that correctly) my own similar experiences. I know it can be difficult to share such things on a public forum.:)
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not at all scwheetie, I meant that in my day dentists didn't wear goggles, so therefore that doesn't explain my situation ...

oh dear ... :confused:

Mooks; No, only the ones we had living with us, no.

nope

and not sure, but he didn't go anywhere near my "undercarriage"
 
I dont want to discount your story, however heres some explantions for some of your symptons:

Being young and scared of a big dark window at night is totally normal. I still dont like doing that, im old enough to know better but its normal, someone mentioned it might be instinct to guard against predators, well the Lions do actually hunt at night. I even wanted someone to go to the loo with me when I first saw Jaws, I was maybe 8, I lived in london, Jaws was gonna get me throught the pan.

Nosebleeds when your a kid is due to vigorous picking of it with your finger, enough said.

Bruises, when I was young all my limbs were covered in bruises constantly from all the running around and whatever you get up to at that age. Even now you can knock yourself and not even feel it and still bruise, women I think are even more prone to this than men. I slept at friends houses before and woke up aching and disorientated, thats par for the course when you sleep in a strange bed or sofa.

I cant explain what you think you saw in your living room, the tans ?

The only thing that is inexplicable is the thing you saw in the living room which kinda makes me think that your experience was more psychological than physical.

Who knows ?
 
Originally posted by Jack Ruby
I dont want to discount your story,
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Oh yes you do!! Getoff my thread :D

however heres some explantions for some of your symptons:
Being young and scared of a big dark window at night is totally normal. ... well the Lions do actually hunt at night. I even wanted someone to go to the loo with me when I first saw Jaws, I was maybe 8, I lived in london, Jaws was gonna get me throught the pan.
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there were no lions in London ... I wasn't scared of the fecking bowl!! It was the Window!!! The window!!!!!
Jaws was many years later ... and didn't scare me.

Nosebleeds when your a kid is due to vigorous picking of it with your finger, enough said.
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I am not Ralph Wiggum, I was not picking my nose ... I was quite refined in my youth ... :D

Bruises, when I was young all my limbs were covered in bruises constantly from all the running around and whatever you get up to at that age. Even now you can knock yourself and not even feel it and still bruise, women I think are even more prone to this than men. I slept at friends houses before and woke up aching and disorientated, thats par for the course when you sleep in a strange bed or sofa.
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I was in my mid 20's when I discovered the first bruise ... didn't go in for running around much in them days
I slept in that same bed the night before with no problems, and many other nights before and since ... I had the same "problem" in my own bed.

I cant explain what you think you saw in your living room, the tans ?
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I dunno?

The only thing that is inexplicable is the thing you saw in the living room which kinda makes me think that your experience was more psychological than physical.
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Ok ... cause of psychologial thing would be ... ?
 
I'm off to me bed, we shall continue this tomorrow, or Sunday.

Might even be Monday ...
 
Goodnight, Lobelia.

Or should I call you Lobe?;)
 
there were no lions in London ... I wasn't scared of the fecking bowl!! It was the Window!!! The window!!!!!
Jaws was many years later ... and didn't scare me.
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The point is not that theres Lions in London, its that its a base instinct to fear the dark, something that can be overcome but is an instinct. The Jaws thing just goes to show how kids can get freaked out, I was 60 miles from the sea but still thought a shark might get me. ( I also cried when King King got shot )


I am not Ralph Wiggum, I was not picking my nose ... I was quite refined in my youth ... :D
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ALL kids pick their nose.


I was in my mid 20's when I discovered the first bruise ... didn't go in for running around much in them days
I slept in that same bed the night before with no problems, and many other nights before and since ... I had the same "problem" in my own bed.
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Your were in your mid 20's when you noticed the bruises, that does not mean they were not there before, maybe you just never noticed them. I sleep same bed 95% of the time, some mornings I wake up as if some kicked my ribs in and jumped on my lower back, aches and pains in the morn mean nothing cept you slept in an awkward position. I have not hurt or knocked myself on anything recently but I bet if I looked I could find a small bruise on my body somewhere.



Ok ... cause of psychologial thing would be ... ?
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Seeing or hearing something scary ( your mums sandman story would certainly do that for a kid ) who wants a freaky little fella to put sand in their eyes ?

Being scared of the bathroom then being told your old enough to wipe your own arse did nothing to ease your fears.

I was scared of daddy long legs when I was a kid, my eldest bro caught one, sat me down and disected it for me explaining how this thing worked and why it scared me and how it couldnt hurt me, your parents could have done the same for you by maybe putting up a curtain in the bathroom ?
 
In my youth ( a long, long time ago lol) there was a popular song often played on the radio(Yes...Radio!) starting with the words " Mr.Sandman, bring me a dream...."
So anyone know where this character originated?
More on thread, it is possible to produce bruises on your own body by mere thought, this can be duplicated sometimes under hypnosis. I think the mechanism has to do with the release of histamine under the skin, but not being a dermatologist, I can't state that for sure. Stigmata is an extreme example of this phenomenon. When I was around 9 or 10 a friend of mine was meddling around with what he believed to be Satanism and raising the Devil ( too much Denis Wheatly at an early age!), resulting in me having a frightening dream about meeting himself. In the morning I discovered a mark on my shoulder around 2 inches long in the shape of an arrow head, dark reddish blue. This used to be quoted as one of his 'marks' in witchfinder days. Scared the living daylights out of me much more than the dream! After a few days it simply faded away. I thought I had been posessed and claimed, but nothing further happened and I didn't have to carry out any of his dirty work.:D
 
LobeliaOverhill said:
That's Lobby to you mate :D
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You are Lobby Ludd and I claim my five pounds... :D
 
Bruising during sleep is not uncommon. If the sleeping person is prone to thrashing about during their dreams then they will end up with bruises, especially if they bruise easily.
 
brian ellwood said:
In my youth ( a long, long time ago lol) there was a popular song often played on the radio(Yes...Radio!) starting with the words " Mr.Sandman, bring me a dream...."
So anyone know where this character originated?
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I've always suspected he was created as an explanation why when you wake up there can be little grains of "sand" at the edges of your eye (my parents call that stuff "sleep" as I recall, like "you've got some sleep on your eye"), which I assume is salt crystals or somesuch, from dried tears ;)
More on thread, it is possible to produce bruises on your own body by mere thought, this can be duplicated sometimes under hypnosis. I think the mechanism has to do with the release of histamine under the skin, but not being a dermatologist, I can't state that for sure.
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My mum is prone to getting bruises without knowing where they came from, she thinks she probably absent-mindedly bumps into things and then later they come up like that, but perhaps this is a better explanation :)
 
The earliest print reference to the sandman (as far as I'm aware) is ETA Hoffmann's long short story (or short novela), "The Sandman." (1814) It's a long time since I read it, but IIRC it's clear that he's using an existing folk concept. Interestingly, the protagonist's parents are telling him that the sandman is coming with the intention of the concept relaxing him, but what it actually does is inspire him with terror - I must go to sleep before the sadistic sandman comes and rubs sand into my eyes! The image of the Sandman haunts him into adult life and becomes associated with anxieties and real disasters.

Hoffmann was an extremely influential writer - *all* the Romantics owe him a great debt, and he produced either very early or actually the first literary evocations of motifs that have become cliches, such as taking the POV of a madman (or is he?), the robot, the hypnotist, etc. He is neglected by modern English-speaking audiences, probably because fewer of us read German as well as the Romantics did and the translations tend to be a bit clunky; but you can get him in cheap Dover editions and he should be in you library. The attached site is not impressive, but at least you can get a list of works and I really need to stop futzing about on newsgroups and get some yardwork done before it heats up:
http://www.littlebluelight.com/lblphp/works.php?ikey=9
 
Lobelia, perhaps you could be a bit more open minded about this, as well as alb.
Nobody's trying to persecute you, just offering alternate explanations, which is the fortean thing to do. Sorry, i don't mean to sound rude :)
 
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