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London Bombings: Conspiracies

Techybloke said:
You keep asking that question Jerry.
Maybe the answer is beyond us to fathom.
We don't always get an answer to why someone does something theres not always a logical reason to find.

And by saying its Anti-Jewish just stops any more inquiry down that avenue because no one on here wants to be branded with that.

Well, there's a big difference between questioning Israeli policies and being anti-Jewish. The problem is that the anti-Zionist stuff tends to take a bigoted stance, and is just rehashing very old prejudices and conspiracies about the Jews running the world whilst masquerading as informed thought on Israel.

I don't think the answer is beyond anyone to fathom. If, to some people, Israel is behind this they have to explain why. Suspicion is not enough - after, on what are those suspicions based? Aside from that, such suspicions also seem to lack any insight into the actual realities of Israeli politics, etc.. It seems to me that alot of these conspiracies are based on presumptions and assumptions rather than anything based in reality, which tends to belie a distinct lack of understanding about politics, etc.. And even if there's no logic to why something's being done, even that would still have to be explained by anyone who is drawn to theories involving Israel, Mossad, etc..
 
I was in tube bomb carriage - and survived"

CAMBRIDGE dancer Bruce Lait has spoken of his miraculous escape when a bomb exploded just yards away from him in a Tube train carriage.

The 32-year-old was knocked out by the blast and awoke to a terrible scene of devastation in the underground tunnel near London's Aldgate East station.
So lucky: Bruce recovers in hospital
Mr Lait, who teaches dance in Cambridge, believes he and his dance partner Crystal Main were the only passengers in the carriage who survived the blast without serious injury - even though they were sitting nearest to where the bomb detonated.

When he came to, there was a body lying on top of him and he was surrounded by the dead and injured. But incredibly, the only wounds the dance coach sustained were facial lacerations and a perforated eardrum.

"I feel extremely, extremely lucky," he said.

The explosion happened just after Mr Lait and Ms Main, 23, got on the train at Liverpool Street on their way to the South Bank for a rehearsal.

He recalled that the carriage had about 20-25 people in it, from all walks of life, and aged from their teens to over 60.

"I remember an Asian guy, there was a white guy with tracksuit trousers and a baseball cap, and there were two old ladies sitting opposite me," he said.

"We'd been on there for a minute at most and then something happened. It was like a huge electricity surge which knocked us out and burst our eardrums. I can still hear that sound now," he said.

The impact of the blast made him pass out. As he came to, he wondered whether he was alive or dead.

"We were right in the carriage where the bomb was. I was knocked out. I did not know what was going on.

"I wondered if I was dead or not. I said to myself, you can't be dead because your brain is having conscious thoughts, so concentrate hard. I was telling myself 'wake up Bruce, wake up'."
Royal visit: At Royal London Hospital
Disorientated, he only gradually realised where he was and what had happened.

"When I woke up and looked around I saw darkness, smoke and wreckage. It took a while to realise where I was and what was going on, then my first concern was for Crystal.

"She was okay but she was in shock because she was trying to deal with the person on top of her who had massive head injuries. We have just found out that this person died," said Mr Lait, who lives in Suffolk.

He too was afraid to move because there was a seriously injured woman lying on top of him.

"I realised someone was lying on top of me. I tried not to move her because I didn't know if she was still alive, or I could have made it worse. This person also died, while on top of me."

At the same time, he slowly tried to work out whether he or Crystal had been injured.

"I thought if I can wiggle my toes I'm okay, and I could, and I asked Crystal to do the same."

Describing the scene as they waited for help, he said: "It was just the most awful scene of death and there were body parts everywhere. There was something next to me. I was trying not to look. I couldn't figure out what it was."

When paramedics arrived, they confirmed that the woman on top of him was dead and carefully moved her body. Mr Lait said the middle-aged woman had blonde curly hair, was dressed in black, and could have been a businesswoman.

He and Crystal were helped out of the carriage. As they made their way out, a policeman pointed out where the bomb had been. It was like a huge electricity surge which knocked us out and burst our eardrums.

Tube survivor Bruce Lait


"The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag," he said.

They were led through the tunnel to the platform at Aldgate, which was just a few hundred yards away, and taken out of the station to wait for an ambulance.

Mr Lait was taken to the Royal London Hospital, Whitechapel, where he was visited by the Queen on Friday.

He said: "They asked would I mind if my name were put forward and I said I'd love to meet the Queen, even if the circumstances weren't ideal."

Sitting with his parents, Pat and Tom, Mr Lait told the Queen as she stood at his bedside: "I'm very thankful to still be here."

He said of Her Majesty: "She just seemed very nice and concerned, she seemed very genuine."

Now back at home, he has been trying to recover from the ordeal, with the help of friends and family.

Mr Lait, who teaches the Latin formation team XS, based in Cambridge, and the Cambridge Dancers' Club, said he has been moved by people's care and consideration.
On the floor: Bruce & dance partner Crystal, who was also on the train
"I've had people who know me phone me from all over the world and ask if I am alright. Those pictures of me and the Queen have gone all over the world."

And he said the terrible experience has given him a new outlook on life.

"It has made me realise how important life is, and that we only get one life, and we've got to be happy with what we've got in our lives."

Reflecting on the ordeal, he said: "Out of that whole carriage, I think Crystal and I were the only ones who were not seriously injured, and I think we were nearest the bomb.

"It makes me thank Him up there. I'm not overly religious but I'm not a disbeliever. I pray now and again. Something like this has just made me think, 'thank you Lord'."

source


any comments
I posted this before but received none !


edited to create hyperlink- Quixote
 
Only that eyewitnesses, partiuclarly after a traumatic event, are not always especially reliable - after Friday's shooting witnesses reported that the victim was variously a fat/thin Asian man with a wispy beard who may have had wires trailing from him.

In fact as we know he was a clean-shaven South American man of medium build with no explosives on him.

If more people come forward to say they believe the bomb was under the train rather than on it then it is certainly worth investigating - otherwise I think the suicide bomber explanation has to be left to stand.
 
Techybloke said:
any comments
I posted this before but received none !

If there were no comments before then why post it again? Especially as it does not seem to have any relevance to a conspiracy thread.
 
If there were no comments before then why post it again? Especially as it does not seem to have any relevance to a conspiracy thread.

An eye witness giving a completely different view of one of the bombings and you say its has nothing to do with it !!!!

why am I surprised I don't get answers to posts when people give answers like that one.

Thank you for your comment Quake

I would have to agree it would be difficult to think straight under the circumstances.

However some of the big newspapers that ran the same story omitted the Hole in the carriage completely ;)
 
here is a guess at why-

blast goes through carriage floor and is reflected back up by ground bending metal back into carriage. Doesn't happen in sides or roof as there is more space for blast to be dissapated.

Just a guess - I'm lucky enough to be not there trying to work it out.

Would have been the same at Madrid.

Oh I love speculation - maybe I could work for the news channels...
 
blast goes through carriage floor and is reflected back up by ground bending metal back into carriage. Doesn't happen in sides or roof as there is more space for blast to be dissapated.

Maybe

I would guess there was more initial force in the blast at explosion than at rebound .

It was stated I beleive the bombers all initiated their bombs within 50 secs.

Do you think they used watches sycronised together
as there was no evidence of timers

Only reason I ask is the Madrid bombs also went off very close to each other.

boom boom boom

Just smacks of timers really.
 
Timers perhaps wouldn't explain the lag between the tube bombs and the bus bomb. It still doesn't seem clear if the bus bomb was part of the plan, or whether the bus bomber got diverted from his tube target and thus was forced to use the bus. If that bomb was orginally planned to be detonated on a tube train at the same time as the others, via a timer, one assumes that it would have gone off when the bomber was above ground being diverted.
 
I would guess there was more initial force in the blast at explosion than at rebound

True, but a rebounded shock wave would come after the initial blast causing the direction of the metal - again this is speculation.

The timings could just be watches synched before hand, not that hard.

On another point - the Police used Tasers (am I getting this thread confused with the other). Is this that wise? as discussed before, zapping somebody with high voltage whilst they are wearing explosives with detonators could be a bit dodgy (maybe they were willing to risk it as he wasn't in direct contact with the public but I wouldn't want to be the copper doing the shooting) + the fact that they are not considered 100% effective.
 
Sources said Yasin Hassan Omar, 24, suspected of being responsible for an attempted attack near Warren Street Tube station, was arrested.

The man was held after being shot with a Taser stun gun
. The BBC has learnt he was wearing a rucksack at the time.

obviously her majesty's finest read my earlier post.
 
I thought of your post when I read the item in the paper. Hope this new method doesn't backfire on them if you see what I mean.
 
They must have been damn certain that he had no volitile substances on him. The cop was risking many lives otherwise.

Looks like the plan is if you suspect explosives shoot to kill if you dont suspect explosives then bring em back alive


cast.jpg
 
was it not agreed that the original bombers used timers? or did i miss a trick somewhere?
 
BTW is that Madonna in the cast photo of Bring 'Em Back Alive?

No I don't mean the Elephant.
 
Chriswsm said:
How difficult would it be to take the voice dial technology off a mobile phone and place it in a bomb. Dont press a button just say the right word (or have both options). Also the bombers could wire the bomb into a pulse monitor so killing the bomber then detonates the bomb immediately or activates a mercury tilt switch after 5 seconds so as soon as the body is moved it detonates.

Yeah great idea, lets give them ideas they had never thought of before!

Some ideas, like yours above should maybe kept to yourself. These freaks really dont need any of our help or innovative ideas on how to kill us.

I live in London and have been literally minutes and a couple hundred yards away from two bombs in two weeks. I am really REALLY fed up with whats going on. My bus and train commute isnt as carefree as it used to be but I WILL GO TO WORK. I feel kinda sorry for the asian and black people that are constantly being stared at on the journey.

I have a hunch theres maybe 100's of other freaks ready to blow themselves up and take us with them too.

How do we deal with it?

edit: As for the illegal immigrant that got shot, he should never have been here, was he paying income tax? I feel no sympathy for him at all.
 
"The PSNI believes the Real IRA passed the technology on in return for promises of supplies of weapons and explosives, and for money. ....

"The Real IRA perfected the mobile-phone bomb, which it tested in south Armagh in late 2000. A highly-sophisticated bomb using two mobile phones linked to each other - to avoid electronic jamming by security forces - was discovered in Derry in February 2001."

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ ... e_id=10585

bombs triggered by mobiles have been around a while now.
 
With enough imagination, we can all come up with potential devices. This is different from actual resources. I've got plenty of nasty ideas - but no inclination to use them or resources to utilise.

We shouldn't forget that the constant "what if ..." is both non-productive nor supportive for both the rule of law and the consideration of the preservation of life.

I regret any loss of life - even if 'justified' by a technicality afterwards. However, to judge the right or wrong of an action is easy for 'talking heads' afterwards - including us here on the FTMB - and that includes mistaken identities, poor information exchange and individual decision-making (usually made in a split-second and without advice).

Even a professional soldier, in a war zone and with clear rules of engagement , will in a quiet moment wonder at what they've done. They might get some comfort from the "Them or Us" or the "Right Against Wrong" explanation ... but unless they are really disturbed, they'll still think of "Could it have been any other way?"
 
I agree storm.

I have no sympathy for the dead guy but have massive sympathy for the coppers that shot him. How must they be feeling now? I cant even imagine how you would come to terms with killing a person, let alone an innocent one. So the blame lies totally at the feet of the brazilian for breaking the law, abusing our hospitality and causing the situation that he did.

The police, the bus drivers and tube workers, they all deserve medals!

I find it freaky getting on public transport but its only a couple hours a day, must be almost unbearable being a bus driver right now.
 
Jack Ruby said:
edit: As for the illegal immigrant that got shot, he should never have been here, was he paying income tax? I feel no sympathy for him at all.

must remember to pay income tax on time, not only will i be fined but i may be shot...
 
Don't get me wrong - a lapsed visa and a misunderstanding isn't to justify an innocent or pointless death! An overreaction by the Police? Perhaps - but the world has changed and we must balance adaptation to new situations against the preservation of values that are worthy of keeping.

It was all a terrible misunderstanding - and one we should prevent reocurring.
 
Of course not paying income tax is not a reason to be shot.

If he had played by the rules, he was invited on a student visa and decided to take advantage and stay and extra couple years, then decided to hurdle barriers and leg it onto a tube while wearing a coat in mid july while theres suicide bombers at large, I wouldnt be surprised if it was suicide by cop on purpose.

Anyways, if he was an honest man, he wouldnt have had to run, he would be alive now sunning himself in Brazil somewhere.
 
As for the illegal immigrant that got shot, he should never have been here, was he paying income tax? I feel no sympathy for him at all.

Er... is this a troll? Some guy may have a slightly dodgy visa so he deserves to be shot in the head?

:wtf:
 
The ITV new channel mentioned earlier today that it was expected that sooner or later the bombing would move outside of London in order to express the image that no one in the UK is safe.

Shopping centres, entertainment locations, major bus and rail stations, motorway services and holiday resorts are likely to be targeted. Basically anywhere where people gather.

It was quite a grusome thought but nothing that I had not already considered. Imagine the difficulty in protecting all these locations. A busy night at a cinema could be a target or the crowds in a holiday resort (such as weston where I live) on the August BH weekend. There are plenty of easy targets outside of the capital and according to the terrorism expert on the news it is a matter of when rather than if :(

I have plenty of ideas of my own but I wont voice them just in case I am more creative than the terrorists :roll: (as if)
 
Hi Folks

I found this video of Peter Power he was mentioned some way back in the thread.

Unfortunatley my pc sems to have lost its sound :shock: I know I,m a computer person !!!!

can you chaps and chapesses take a look and listen and let me know if it is any good ?

http://www.zippyvideos.com/8433204600155.html


ta
TB
 
Yeah it's ace. He says that during routine remote viewing exercises an extraterrestrial entity informed them in advance that a shadowy cabal of world leaders were planning the whole thing in order to rush through emergency legislation to subdue the populace in prepaartion for harvesting by eldritch forces of evil.

Only kidding.

He says it was a complete coincidence they were running the exercise that day and that it isn't really that freaky a coincidence, considering that they've been expecting something to kick off for ages and London gets bombed a fair bit anyway.

Sorry Tech' :p
 
then decided to hurdle barriers and leg it onto a tube while wearing a coat in mid july


Storm and Jack i totally agree with most of your points but this wearing a coat in July is a bit mis-leading, over here we have the summer ritual of hundreds of spanish students coming over to learn english and on days that we would consider hot (i.e people walking around practically in their birthday suits) they walk around dressed like its the sub artic.
 
greets

further to the guy who got killed by the police

Brazilian did not wear bulky jacket

Relatives say Met admits that, contrary to reports, electrician did not leap tube station barrier

Mark Honigsbaum
Thursday July 28, 2005
The Guardian

Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian shot dead in the head, was not wearing a heavy jacket that might have concealed a bomb, and did not jump the ticket barrier when challenged by armed plainclothes police, his cousin said yesterday.

Speaking at a press conference after a meeting with the Metropolitan police, Vivien Figueiredo, 22, said that the first reports of how her 27-year-old cousin had come to be killed in mistake for a suicide bomber on Friday at Stockwell tube station were wrong.

"He used a travel card," she said. "He had no bulky jacket, he was wearing a jeans jacket. But even if he was wearing a bulky jacket that wouldn't be an excuse to kill him."

Flanked by the de Menezes family's solicitor, Gareth Peirce, and by Bianca Jagger, the anti-Iraq war campaigner, she condemned the shoot-to-kill policy which had led to her cousin's death and vowed that what she called the "crime" would not go unpunished.

"My cousin was an honest and hard working person," said Ms Figueiredo who shared a flat with him in Tulse Hill, south London. "Although we are living in circumstances similar to a war, we should not be exterminating people unjustly."

Another cousin, Patricia da Silva Armani, 21, said he was in Britain legally to work and study, giving him no reason to fear the police. "An innocent man has been killed as though he was a terrorist," she said. "An incredibly grave error was committed by the British police."

Mr de Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder at 10am last Friday after being followed from Tulse Hill. Scotland Yard initially claimed he wore a bulky jacket and jumped the barrier when police identified themselves and ordered him to stop. The same day the Met commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, said the shooting was "directly linked" to the unprecedented anti-terror operation on London's streets.

The following day Sir Ian apologised when detectives established that the Brazilian electrician, on his way to a job in north-west London, was not connected to attempts to blow up three underground trains and a bus in the capital.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission has began an inquiry which is expected to take several months. Yesterday it emerged one armed officer involved has been given leave, and two have been moved to non-firearm duties. Ms Figuerdo condemned Sir Ian's decision to authorise the leave, saying she wanted to see the man who shot her cousin, and he should be in jail.

The body of Mr de Menezes is being flown to Brazil tonight for a funeral tomorrow. Simultaneously, a memorial service will be held at Westminster Cathedral, with TV coverage beamed live to Brazil.

Ms Peirce condemned Sir Ian's statements on the case, saying there had been a "regrettable rush to judgment".

She was astonished that the phrase "shoot to kill" was being used as if it was a legitimate legal term; the family would demand "transparency" both as to the facts of what had happened and on the policy.

She added that the family were ready to cooperate with the complaints body, and she saw no reason for delay: "They know what their questions are and we see no reasons why they should not be answered.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1537613,00.html

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