Missing Persons
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catseye
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No, it was just the usual boring bus trip. We didn't find out until the next day that anything had happened. I certainly don't think I saw anything out of the ordinary. but then I didn't know what to look out for (or, indeed, that there was anything to look out for).
uair01
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From Twitter:
Turkish government reveals to U.S. it had Saudi consulate bugged and could hear killing of Washington Post contributor Jamal Khashoggi: “You can hear how he was interrogated, tortured and then murdered.”
https://twitter.com/byaaroncdavis/status/1050548844923166720
The Saudi forensics expert who flew to Istanbul the day Khashoggi disappeared was a pioneer in rapid, mobile autopsies. His goal: to "provide the dissection service to the security authorities in record time,”
https://twitter.com/byaaroncdavis/status/1050553297596309506
US intel picked up Saudis discussing plan to capture Jamal Khashoggi before he disappeared in Istanbul.
https://twitter.com/shaneharris/status/1049858693683122176
Saudis lay in wait for Jamal Khashoggi and left Turkey quickly, sources say
https://twitter.com/kfahim/status/1049824059188531200
Turkey says Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi journalist who writes for The Washington Post, killed by a ‘murder’ team inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Saudi Arabia disputes report. Post editor says if Turkish report true "a monstrous and unfathomable act.”
https://twitter.com/byaaroncdavis/status/1048823719991365632
But also (reasonable comment!):
Wait ... Turkey privately told US officials they had bugged the Saudi Embassy AND THEN US OFFICIALS LEAKED IT
https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1050562110353215491
Turkish government reveals to U.S. it had Saudi consulate bugged and could hear killing of Washington Post contributor Jamal Khashoggi: “You can hear how he was interrogated, tortured and then murdered.”
https://twitter.com/byaaroncdavis/status/1050548844923166720
The Saudi forensics expert who flew to Istanbul the day Khashoggi disappeared was a pioneer in rapid, mobile autopsies. His goal: to "provide the dissection service to the security authorities in record time,”
https://twitter.com/byaaroncdavis/status/1050553297596309506
US intel picked up Saudis discussing plan to capture Jamal Khashoggi before he disappeared in Istanbul.
https://twitter.com/shaneharris/status/1049858693683122176
Saudis lay in wait for Jamal Khashoggi and left Turkey quickly, sources say
https://twitter.com/kfahim/status/1049824059188531200
Turkey says Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi journalist who writes for The Washington Post, killed by a ‘murder’ team inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Saudi Arabia disputes report. Post editor says if Turkish report true "a monstrous and unfathomable act.”
https://twitter.com/byaaroncdavis/status/1048823719991365632
But also (reasonable comment!):
Wait ... Turkey privately told US officials they had bugged the Saudi Embassy AND THEN US OFFICIALS LEAKED IT
https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1050562110353215491
Mythopoeika
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It gets more bizarre and horrifying by the day.
Clearly, a state such as Saudi Arabia gets collectively offended by mere words, to the point where they will do murder.
Clearly, a state such as Saudi Arabia gets collectively offended by mere words, to the point where they will do murder.
uair01
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@pwnallthethings 12 okt.
"Turkish officials are wary of releasing the recordings, fearing they could divulge how the Turks spy on foreign entities in their country, the officials said [as they discussed the recordings against Turkish wishes, revealing how Turks spy on foreign entities in their country]"
These leaks always have the feature of all of the downsides of disclosure (burning sources and methods) with none of the upsides (no formal accusation with requirement for response at intl level, no sanctions, easy for KSA to claim is false etc)
Pro-Turkish govt newspaper: There are recordings from inside the Saudi Embassy, but by extremely curious and unlikely happenstance those recordings were definitely not taken by us and were 100% definitely not us bugging the embassy.
https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1050900655941009411?s=20
Julian Sanchez
@normative
I mean... “dissident journo turns on his recording device before entering consulate” doesn’t strike me as wildly implausible on face.
@pwnallthethings
"Apple promptly gives recording uploaded to iCloud to Turkish government" does tho
@normative
I thought the story was that his wife had access via an iPhone on the same account he’d left with her
@pwnallthethings
I mean, it's *possible*. But I think under such circumstances the audio of it would have been made public by now.
@jpohhhh
It's utterly implausible if you have a nerd's understanding of Watch x iPhone x iCloud and you're aware she had the phone. No way to get the recording to iCloud.
@dculleney
He had an Apple watch that he synched to other devices and the cloud and he had it recording when he walked into the consulate, per @MSNBC
@Clive_Bates
More likely is that careless/clueless American officials disclosed the existence of the recordings to the Washington Post, revealing Turkish bugging of Saudi consulate. Now Turkish authorities are trying far-fetched explanations to limit damage to their relationship with Saudis.
"Turkish officials are wary of releasing the recordings, fearing they could divulge how the Turks spy on foreign entities in their country, the officials said [as they discussed the recordings against Turkish wishes, revealing how Turks spy on foreign entities in their country]"
These leaks always have the feature of all of the downsides of disclosure (burning sources and methods) with none of the upsides (no formal accusation with requirement for response at intl level, no sanctions, easy for KSA to claim is false etc)
Pro-Turkish govt newspaper: There are recordings from inside the Saudi Embassy, but by extremely curious and unlikely happenstance those recordings were definitely not taken by us and were 100% definitely not us bugging the embassy.
https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1050900655941009411?s=20
Julian Sanchez
@normative
I mean... “dissident journo turns on his recording device before entering consulate” doesn’t strike me as wildly implausible on face.
@pwnallthethings
"Apple promptly gives recording uploaded to iCloud to Turkish government" does tho
@normative
I thought the story was that his wife had access via an iPhone on the same account he’d left with her
@pwnallthethings
I mean, it's *possible*. But I think under such circumstances the audio of it would have been made public by now.
@jpohhhh
It's utterly implausible if you have a nerd's understanding of Watch x iPhone x iCloud and you're aware she had the phone. No way to get the recording to iCloud.
@dculleney
He had an Apple watch that he synched to other devices and the cloud and he had it recording when he walked into the consulate, per @MSNBC
@Clive_Bates
More likely is that careless/clueless American officials disclosed the existence of the recordings to the Washington Post, revealing Turkish bugging of Saudi consulate. Now Turkish authorities are trying far-fetched explanations to limit damage to their relationship with Saudis.
uair01
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Nassim Nicholas Taleb @nntaleb
The approach to the murder of the journo by Saudi Barbaria (if details are true) illustrates the conflation the sophisticated w/what looks sophisticated.
The most sophisticated approach wd have been to use a cheap hitman on a motorcycle.
Saudis acted like academic economists.
@denevederoden
I was thinking alone those lines today. The Russians eliminated chechen separatists in Istanbul also using their own hitmen,but more the "hitman on a motorcycle" way. Apparently the Saudis didn't want a corpus delicti, they must have thought it would save them from int'l condemn.
@AwesomeJon116
Wouldn't the most sophisticated method have been to have a known Saudi representative shoot him in broad daylight in a busy public area? You wouldn't be able to question the audacity of it and it would be simple and direct. The worst plan, therefore the smartest.
@Miche1T
You’re assuming it was a cold blooded murder and not an, ahem, involuntary repatriation and anaesthesiological screwup.
@dklaidman
A close friend of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi tells @Isikoff and me that Saudi Crown Prince MBS may have felt emboldened by Trump’s anti-media rhetoric. “Trump hates journalists and he would not react if we kill one journalist,” says Khaled Saffuri.
The approach to the murder of the journo by Saudi Barbaria (if details are true) illustrates the conflation the sophisticated w/what looks sophisticated.
The most sophisticated approach wd have been to use a cheap hitman on a motorcycle.
Saudis acted like academic economists.
@denevederoden
I was thinking alone those lines today. The Russians eliminated chechen separatists in Istanbul also using their own hitmen,but more the "hitman on a motorcycle" way. Apparently the Saudis didn't want a corpus delicti, they must have thought it would save them from int'l condemn.
@AwesomeJon116
Wouldn't the most sophisticated method have been to have a known Saudi representative shoot him in broad daylight in a busy public area? You wouldn't be able to question the audacity of it and it would be simple and direct. The worst plan, therefore the smartest.
@Miche1T
You’re assuming it was a cold blooded murder and not an, ahem, involuntary repatriation and anaesthesiological screwup.
@dklaidman
A close friend of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi tells @Isikoff and me that Saudi Crown Prince MBS may have felt emboldened by Trump’s anti-media rhetoric. “Trump hates journalists and he would not react if we kill one journalist,” says Khaled Saffuri.
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CNN is reporting the murder and dismemberment claims have been repeated (privately) by Turkish officials in the wake of initial searching at the consulate.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/16/middleeast/khashoggi-turkish-investigation-intl/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/16/middleeast/khashoggi-turkish-investigation-intl/index.html
uair01
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Bloomberg Politics @bpolitics
Saudi Arabia is reportedly considering saying missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi died in a botched interrogation. Here's the latest https://bloom.bg/2RTih2c
@ScottAdamsSays
This is why I always bring a bone saw and plastic bags to the interrogations I do. Just in case.
@realDonaldTrump
Just spoke to the King of Saudi Arabia who denies any knowledge of whatever may have happened “to our Saudi Arabian citizen.” He said that they are working closely with Turkey to find answer. I am immediately sending our Secretary of State to meet with King!
Nassim Nicholas Taleb @nntaleb
Donaldo, please call the king of Saudi Barbaria again for his second version of the story.
In other words, Saudi Barbaria is saying:
"We didn't mean to kill him; we just tortured him to death"
Branko Milanovic @BrankoMilan
We have many globalization-related innovations these days:
-- A detention center held in a foreign country where you can *abuse* people w/o regard to your laws
-- Poisoning of your former agents in a foreign county
-- Killing of a dissident in your consulate in a foreign country
Saudi Arabia is reportedly considering saying missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi died in a botched interrogation. Here's the latest https://bloom.bg/2RTih2c
@ScottAdamsSays
This is why I always bring a bone saw and plastic bags to the interrogations I do. Just in case.
@realDonaldTrump
Just spoke to the King of Saudi Arabia who denies any knowledge of whatever may have happened “to our Saudi Arabian citizen.” He said that they are working closely with Turkey to find answer. I am immediately sending our Secretary of State to meet with King!
Nassim Nicholas Taleb @nntaleb
Donaldo, please call the king of Saudi Barbaria again for his second version of the story.
In other words, Saudi Barbaria is saying:
"We didn't mean to kill him; we just tortured him to death"
Branko Milanovic @BrankoMilan
We have many globalization-related innovations these days:
-- A detention center held in a foreign country where you can *abuse* people w/o regard to your laws
-- Poisoning of your former agents in a foreign county
-- Killing of a dissident in your consulate in a foreign country
Bigphoot2
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New developments in the case of Renee MacRae
https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/...than-40-years-ago-on-their-way-to-perthshire/
Bigphoot2
Not sprouts! I hate sprouts.
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Update on the MacRae story here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-49661128
ramonmercado
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Reunited with stolen child after 32 years.
A Chinese couple whose son was abducted in a hotel in 1988 have been reunited with him after 32 years.
Mao Yin was snatched aged two, while his father stopped to get him some water on the way home from nursery.
His parents searched the country for him and his mother distributed more than 100,000 flyers.
The family were reunited at a police news conference on Monday, and the son - now aged 34 - said he planned to spend time with his parents.
"I would like to thank the tens of thousands of people who helped us," said Li Jingzhi, the boy's mother.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52717670
A Chinese couple whose son was abducted in a hotel in 1988 have been reunited with him after 32 years.
Mao Yin was snatched aged two, while his father stopped to get him some water on the way home from nursery.
His parents searched the country for him and his mother distributed more than 100,000 flyers.
The family were reunited at a police news conference on Monday, and the son - now aged 34 - said he planned to spend time with his parents.
"I would like to thank the tens of thousands of people who helped us," said Li Jingzhi, the boy's mother.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52717670
ramonmercado
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Not yet clear if a body is in the car.
Gardaí investigating the disappearance of a man in County Monaghan 18 years ago have confirmed that his car has been found in a County Fermanagh lake.
Tony Lynch from Fermanagh was last seen on Fermanagh Street in Clones, County Monaghan, on Sunday, 6 January 2002. The father of four, who was 54 years old and originally from Magheraveely, had recently moved to the town. Mr Lynch's car, a white Mitsubishi Galant, also disappeared at that time.
In an operation involving police forces in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, police divers with the PSNI and Gardaí recovered the vehicle on Monday from the bottom of in Upper Lough Erne at Corradillar, near Lisnaskea. When the car was found, it was full of silt as a result of being in the lake all that time. It is currently being forensically examined to establish if Mr Lynch's remains are inside.
Mr Lynch's family have been informed of the discovery.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-52723432
Gardaí investigating the disappearance of a man in County Monaghan 18 years ago have confirmed that his car has been found in a County Fermanagh lake.
Tony Lynch from Fermanagh was last seen on Fermanagh Street in Clones, County Monaghan, on Sunday, 6 January 2002. The father of four, who was 54 years old and originally from Magheraveely, had recently moved to the town. Mr Lynch's car, a white Mitsubishi Galant, also disappeared at that time.
In an operation involving police forces in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, police divers with the PSNI and Gardaí recovered the vehicle on Monday from the bottom of in Upper Lough Erne at Corradillar, near Lisnaskea. When the car was found, it was full of silt as a result of being in the lake all that time. It is currently being forensically examined to establish if Mr Lynch's remains are inside.
Mr Lynch's family have been informed of the discovery.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-52723432
Robbrent
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It may have been mentioned on this thread but the national missing persons site is a good reference especially the unidentified bodies section, (if not rather macabre) I would have thought with the advances in DNA science they would have a good idea as to who these poor souls were, or at least where they came from, sadly the site is light of forensics just giving a brief details hardly enough for many to recognise a loved one
https://www.missingpersons.police.uk/en-gb/case-search/p244442
https://www.missingpersons.police.uk/en-gb/case-search/p244442
ramonmercado
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Body in car. Not clear if it's Tony Lynch.
Human remains have been found in a car recovered from Lough Erne in Co Fermanagh earlier this week, the PSNI has confirmed.
The discovery of the vehicle was made as part of searches for Michael 'Tony' Lynch.
On Tuesday, gardaí investigating the disappearance of a man from his home in Co Monaghan 18 years ago reported a significant development after a car was recovered from Lough Erne in Co Fermanagh.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/break...ed-during-search-for-missing-man-1000880.html
pandacracker
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That site is both fascinating and depressing at the same time.
Robbrent
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I just can't comprehend how someone can be found and not identified, I guess budget constraints stop them doing full DNA tracing, there is a case from Manchester listed on there, a body of a young woman was found behind a wall at the time I thought surely they would be able to say who she was (it was a big story for a few days) it looked to me that she had been there since the 70s but nothing came of it
https://www.missingpersons.police.uk/en-gb/case/10-000491
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Not everyone has official DNA samples stored so that there is something to be matched with.
ramonmercado
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A psychic is called in.
Tina Satchwell’s devastated family said her disappearance “is killing” them and have appealed for help to find the missing woman ahead of her birthday next month.
Tina disappeared on March 20, 2017, from her home on Grattan Street in Youghal, Co Cork. She is due to turn 49 in November.
“We’re so worried. It’s been three-and-a-half years since she went missing,” Tina’s sister, Teresa Dingivan said. “It’s killing us. Someone out there must know something.”
Ms Dingivan said a psychic had offered to help find Tina and the desperate family agreed, but Tina’s husband Richard Satchwell, the last person to see Tina alive, would not co-operate.
But Mr Satchwell said that involving psychics was turning the search “into a circus”. ...
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40072181.html
Tina Satchwell’s devastated family said her disappearance “is killing” them and have appealed for help to find the missing woman ahead of her birthday next month.
Tina disappeared on March 20, 2017, from her home on Grattan Street in Youghal, Co Cork. She is due to turn 49 in November.
“We’re so worried. It’s been three-and-a-half years since she went missing,” Tina’s sister, Teresa Dingivan said. “It’s killing us. Someone out there must know something.”
Ms Dingivan said a psychic had offered to help find Tina and the desperate family agreed, but Tina’s husband Richard Satchwell, the last person to see Tina alive, would not co-operate.
But Mr Satchwell said that involving psychics was turning the search “into a circus”. ...
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40072181.html
dr wu
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Paulides
I'm sure everyone here is familiar with 411 Missing...the David Paulides project...I'm not touting his claims just mentioning him in passing.
I read one of his books several years back and have read info online about him. It seems to me he has capitalized off unusual disappearances to make money. He tends to support weird reasons (Bigfoot, aliens , portals..) for people that are missing in the cases he cites....though he's careful not to be too obvious about it. My understanding is that his background is a bit shady in that he has exaggerated his credentials and had some work related issues in law enforcement himself.
Anyone care to comment on this man and his ideas...?
I'm sure everyone here is familiar with 411 Missing...the David Paulides project...I'm not touting his claims just mentioning him in passing.
I read one of his books several years back and have read info online about him. It seems to me he has capitalized off unusual disappearances to make money. He tends to support weird reasons (Bigfoot, aliens , portals..) for people that are missing in the cases he cites....though he's careful not to be too obvious about it. My understanding is that his background is a bit shady in that he has exaggerated his credentials and had some work related issues in law enforcement himself.
Anyone care to comment on this man and his ideas...?
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If so - I'd suggest doing so over in the thread dedicated to Paulides and his mission persons work ...
David Paulides & Missing 411
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/david-paulides-missing-411.59791/
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Well, no - at least not that strictly. This is a thread about missing persons in general and / or any missing person case, including any of the ones Paulides may have cited.Thanks for the heads up....so then this thread is for 'non -Paulides missing people'...?
Discussion of Paulides' particular take on missing persons, and the specific cases he addressed in the context of his hypotheses, became big enough to spin off into a thread of its own.
If it's about any missing person, it's fair game under the umbrella of this thread. If it's about Paulides or his take on a particular case it's probably better suited for the other thread.