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Morphic Resonance

gordonrutter

gordonrutter

Within reason
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We have plenty of threads that mention morphic resonance but no thread devoted to it as a topic. So here it is.

A definition from Rupert Sheldrake - https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance

"Morphic resonance is a process whereby self-organising systems inherit a memory from previous similar systems. In its most general formulation, morphic resonance means that the so-called laws of nature are more like habits. The hypothesis of morphic resonance also leads to a radically new interpretation of memory storage in the brain and of biological inheritance. Memory need not be stored in material traces inside brains, which are more like TV receivers than video recorders, tuning into influences from the past. And biological inheritance need not all be coded in the genes, or in epigenetic modifications of the genes; much of it depends on morphic resonance from previous members of the species. Thus each individual inherits a collective memory from past members of the species, and also contributes to the collective memory, affecting other members of the species in the future. This hypothesis was first put forward in my book A New Science of Life in 1981, and discussed in greater detail in my main theoretical work, The Presence of the Past, published in 1988. See Morphic Fields for a general introduction to the theory."
 
And what it was that inspired me to post about morphic resonance - a note from Rupert Sheldrake's email newsletter

"A British graduate student, Georgia Black, is doing a research project to find out whether people’s ability to solve the daily five-letter word puzzle Wordle could be influenced by morphic resonance from people who have already solved it earlier in the day. She is looking for volunteers to complete a 5-minute questionnaire after solving the Wordle puzzle on a day of their choice. If you have already done Wordle today, you could respond right away."
 
I read about this in the Science Delusion book. It would explain a great deal about some animal behaviours. Also a number of fortean phenomenon such as Terminal Lucidity - ESP - mental connections between twins or people who are strongly bonded, to name a few.

Such a thing is horrific to materialists. Ultimately it boils down to whether you believe the universe is governed and created by consciousness, or whether the universe is just matter with life as a by-product.
 
Benzie said:
Such a thing is horrific to materialists. Ultimately it boils down to whether you believe the universe is governed and created by consciousness, or whether the universe is just matter with life as a byby-product.
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Nope! I'm a materialist, and I remain unhorrified. If there's evidence that can be studied for this subtle network between organisms, that would fascinate me. It becomes material if it turns out to be supported by all available evidence. Such a discovery has no numinous relevance.
 
How curious. I recently had a similar conversation with my brother - he a v. much a frowny-browed materialist - in which he made an almost identical assertion ( “If there’s evidence that can be studied for this subtle network between organisms, that would fascinate me”). “But there is” I said “and you’re not”.
 
Incidentally, re morphic resonance, wasn’t there an experiment in which mice were subjected to mild - but unpleasant- electric shocks while simultaneously being exposed to the scent of lemon, this being done repeatedly until the two sensory experiences were totally ‘connected’. Seemingly the offspring of the mice - two generations later- could be induced into a state of extreme anxiety by exposure to the smell of lemon.
 
What is the difference from the theory of collective unconsciousness? Or is this just another tag for it?

I know that I have always been slightly curious as to how new ideas crop up in different areas of the world around the same time. Though with internet and the immediacy of information, this is more easily possible.
 
We always told my mum that she should only start doing the Telegraph crossword late on Saturday or early on Sunday when more people would have got the clues, and she would be able to get the answers more easily. She is perfectly happy with this explanation
 
PeteByrdie said:
Nope! I'm a materialist, and I remain unhorrified. If there's evidence that can be studied for this subtle network between organisms, that would fascinate me. It becomes material if it turns out to be supported by all available evidence. Such a discovery has no numinous relevance.
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It does also include that memories are stored outside the body in the morphic field - not in the brain. I find this logical as no-one has yet proved where memories are "stored" in the brain. Also would explain the likes of Terminal Lucidity, plus Tribal/Collective Memory.
 
Velvet monkey said:
Incidentally, re morphic resonance, wasn’t there an experiment in which mice were subjected to mild - but unpleasant- electric shocks while simultaneously being exposed to the scent of lemon, this being done repeatedly until the two sensory experiences were totally ‘connected’. Seemingly the offspring of the mice - two generations later- could be induced into a state of extreme anxiety by exposure to the smell of lemon.
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Something similar happened after the fall of the Berlin Wall. A fence ran all the way between East and West Germany. Deer living in the countryside avoided this fence because it was electrified to lethal levels. The fence was removed in 1989/90. More then 2 decades on the deer were still avoiding where the fence had been - not the original deer, these were 2 or 3 generations on from their ancestors of 1989.
 
Velvet monkey said:
Incidentally, re morphic resonance, wasn’t there an experiment in which mice were subjected to mild - but unpleasant- electric shocks while simultaneously being exposed to the scent of lemon, this being done repeatedly until the two sensory experiences were totally ‘connected’. Seemingly the offspring of the mice - two generations later- could be induced into a state of extreme anxiety by exposure to the smell of lemon.
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Mice are known to dislike the scent of lemon & it’s touted as a natural mouse repellent so I don’t know how much weight I’d place on that experiment.

Source
 
It seems to me that animals would teach their offspring what to avoid and what is good. Then those offspring would teach theirs and so on. Those observations about deer /mice are interesting but I think they are about parenting and not morphic resonance.
 
PeteByrdie said:
Nope! I'm a materialist, and I remain unhorrified. If there's evidence that can be studied for this subtle network between organisms, that would fascinate me. It becomes material if it turns out to be supported by all available evidence. Such a discovery has no numinous relevance.
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You'd be interested in discoveries in slime mould behaviour. Slime mould will travel to reach food and remember the same route. If you introduce a second slime mould to the first, it won't need to be shown how to get to the food, it will just absorb that knowledge from the first explorer. If I can find the old copy of FOCUS magazine, it goes into more details.
 
Swifty said:
You'd be interested in discoveries in slime mould behaviour. Slime mould will travel to reach food and remember the same route. If you introduce a second slime mould to the first, it won't need to be shown how to get to the food, it will just absorb that knowledge from the first explorer. If I can find the old copy of FOCUS magazine, it goes into more details.
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Slime moulds are also remarkable for being able to self-organise with no obvious way of doing it - liquidise one, and wait, and it will reorganise itself.
 
SimonBurchell said:
Slime moulds are also remarkable for being able to self-organise with no obvious way of doing it - liquidise one, and wait, and it will reorganise itself.
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I managed to kill one by mistake a few years ago. The Mrs spotted the 'glob' growing in a bottle filled with rain water in my back yard. I was a bit excited even though they're not attractive to look at. I did a bit of research and learned that they're not exactly one organism but more accurately a 'community', the inner part described as Ectoplasm, the outer 'skin' described as Endoplasm.

I mostly left it alone other than to take it to show the organiser of our paranormal group with a view to conducting some experiments on it. I made the mistake of sprinkling some porridge oats on it to feed it which rotted the mould. We were coming up to winter so it would have frozen anyway but it would have been interesting to see if it would have gone into hibernation or not.
 
Min Bannister said:
It seems to me that animals would teach their offspring what to avoid and what is good. Then those offspring would teach theirs and so on. Those observations about deer /mice are interesting but I think they are about parenting and not morphic resonance.
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Yes - On a recent Attenborough Planet programme there was a segment about a woman, in Slovakia I think it was, involved in a scheme to increase numbers of a very rare type of Ibis.

She raised them from hatching so became imprinted as their ‘mother’. When it came to migrating, which they naturally do every year to warmer climes in Italy, they were restless to fly but had no idea where to migrate to & she had to lead them firstly by using thermals to gain enough height, in a microlight over the alps as they followed her.

The point being that animals learn largely by following their parents behaviour.

Not to say that morphic resonance doesn’t exist though.
 
SimonBurchell said:
Slime moulds are also remarkable for being able to self-organise with no obvious way of doing it - liquidise one, and wait, and it will reorganise itself.
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I think some sponges can do this as long as the cells aren’t damaged - they can be passed through a fine sieve & will reconstitute. Liquidising would be a step too far & cause damage to cells in their case.
 
hunck said:
I think some sponges can do this as long as the cells aren’t damaged - they can be passed through a fine sieve & will reconstitute. Liquidising would be a step too far & cause damage to cells in their case.
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I'm not a biologist - maybe liquidising wouldn't work with slime moulds either - it's something I remember reading a long time ago.
 
Velvet monkey said:
How curious. I recently had a similar conversation with my brother - he a v. much a frowny-browed materialist - in which he made an almost identical assertion ( “If there’s evidence that can be studied for this subtle network between organisms, that would fascinate me”). “But there is” I said “and you’re not”.
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I think my issue is there's a lot of anecdotal and some vague, inconclusive evidence that Something's going on beyond our conscious senses, but I don't feel morphic resonance, or any other explanation, emerges from that evidence. It seems like just the intuition of one person. I'm open to the possibilities.
 
This is the kind of theory that I'd like and feel to be correct; but that's not enough, is it?

More directly: given Mr Sheldrake's apparent certainty and, in contrast, the rather hostile reaction of many scientists regarding his theory, it's hard for a layperson like me to decide who might be in the right.
 
Amergin said:
There is an excellent interview with Rupert Sheldrake in the current edition of the Idler magazine,
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I will make a point of looking-out for this when in the shops, thanks @Amergin

Sheldrake is a fascinating character, albeit slightly-formulaic when expounding his theories. That's an unfair observation, but, he's been a shakey hero of mine since the early 1970s, so I feel some illegitimate level of entitlement to critique his style.
 
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Hmmm. I had heard about Sheldrake before, but had never really taken much notice. I've just looked him up. Local lad, born less than 10 miles from where I live. He is clearly not an unintelligent man: MA at Cambridge, PhD at Harvard, studied the philosophy of science, and specialised in biochemistry.

Newsflash: Sheldrake is ten times smarter than me. You'd have to drive a railroad spike into his brain for me to beat him at checkers. Next to him, I am like one of those sign language gorillas who knows how to ask for grapes*.

However, I'm sceptical about this particular Big Idea.

Similar things happening does not imply some sort of external memory. Similar circumstances, similar environment, and similar intervals of time, are likely to produce similar solutions to problems or responses to challenges. Species that evolve by selection for similar niches often have similar shapes and behaviours.

People who buy the Sunday paper shortly after the newsagent opens probably take a similar amount of time to complete the crossword. The ones who finish last are not "helped" by others finishing sooner, they have just taken a bit longer.

Atoms and molecules combine in predictable shapes based on their geometry and charge.

There are also the social and psychological aspects of confirmation bias and pattern recognition: the same things that lead us to identify "coincidences", to see faces in stains in the wallpaper, and believe in superstition.

Morphic resonance seems to suggest that because a thing happens many times, the later examples must somehow be caused or encouraged by the earlier ones. This is an artfully dressed up variant of post hoc ergo propter hoc. However, subsequence does not have to be consequence.

*TBBT, Leonard to Penny.
 
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