Morphic Resonance

[Velvet monkey]

Yeah, I take your point(s), and I too am sceptical about Sheldrake’s claims about morphic resonance, tho’ maybe not as sceptical as you. Yes, morphic resonance does seem to suggest that because a thing happens many times, the later examples must some be caused or encouraged by the earlier ones. Maybe I’d just want to say ‘in some way related to that we’ve not quite figured out yet’ but either way, it‘s at the very least intriguingly plausible or plausibly intriguing enough to warrant some serious further investigating. As a Fortean and all.

I’m not sure how you’d go about constructing a proper, controls-and-all experiment to measure whether later editions of The Times Crossword could be completed more easily depending on how many ‘previous’ crosswords had been done that day. But mightn’t it be possible - a reasonable speculation - that (just imagining here for a moment that such an experiment could be constructed confirming to some reasonable standard of empirical rigor..) we might find evidence that there is, as they say in the lab., “something going on”?
From what I’ve seen and heard of Rupert Sheldrake, he’s been fairly keen to back up his assertions with evidence and as far as possible test hypotheses. I’ve seen - and heard - plenty of rather sniffy dismissal of him that reflects poorly on the scientific establishment but I’ve not seen anyone convincingly debunk him.
just by way of casting the net of speculation a bit wider, wasn’t there a BBC documentary a few years ( mebbe 4 or 5 ?) about the climbing of Mont Blanc ( ok could have been The Matterhorn, Eiger, can’t be sure) I seem to recall the essential thrust was this mountain had so for long remained the impossible climb. It detailed how many had perished in attempt after attempt. Until of course, it was climbed. The Herculean, death defying feats of the first successful team was actually copied remarkably quickly by a second team. Thereafter the ascent was done in short order in half the time and soon… well within a few years its summit was being visited by folks on bicycles. What’s this got to to with Morphic Resonance ? Bugger all probably. But I remember thinking at the time, ‘hmm I wonder how many mountains you’d need to construct a decent experiment’?

 

[Mikefule]

... the climbing of Mont Blanc ( ok could have been The Matterhorn, Eiger, can’t be sure) I seem to recall the essential thrust was this mountain had so for long remained the impossible climb. It detailed how many had perished in attempt after attempt. Until of course, it was climbed. The Herculean, death defying feats of the first successful team was actually copied remarkably quickly by a second team. Thereafter the ascent was done in short order in half the time and soon… well within a few years its summit was being visited by folks on bicycles. What’s this got to to with Morphic Resonance ? Bugger all probably. But I remember thinking at the time, ‘hmm I wonder how many mountains you’d need to construct a decent experiment’?

I'm not sure which comedian (possibly David Mitchell) did a long set piece rant about this phenomenon.

So and so is the first black/female/autistic/blind/solo etc. person to climb a Mountain. So and so is the quickest climb it, or the first to do it without some piece of equipment, etc.

His point was that once the first person has succeeded, it has been done. It is no longer something that may be impossible. That changes the mindset. Hillary and Tensing climbed Everest, therefore it is achievable.

Not only is the mindset different, but the climbing community gains and shares knowledge and experience from each new expedition. It doesn't need a fanciful hand-waving argument that assumes new and unknown laws of cosmology and physics to explain why the second and third successful ascents are quicker than the first, and why it eventually becomes almost routine, with timetables, booking slots in the official diary, and climbers queueing for the summit.

Being the first is always harder than being the second, or the tenth, or the thousandth.

 

[SimonBurchell]

I'm not sure which comedian (possibly David Mitchell) did a long set piece rant about this phenomenon.

So and so is the first black/female/autistic/blind/solo etc. person to climb a Mountain. So and so is the quickest climb it, or the first to do it without some piece of equipment, etc.

His point was that once the first person has succeeded, it has been done. It is no longer something that may be impossible. That changes the mindset. Hillary and Tensing climbed Everest, therefore it is achievable.

Not only is the mindset different, but the climbing community gains and shares knowledge and experience from each new expedition. It doesn't need a new hand-waving argument that assumes new and unknown laws of cosmology and physics to explain why the second and third successful ascents are quicker than the first, and why it eventually becomes almost routine, with timetables, booking slots in the official diary, and climbers queueing for the summit.

Being the first is always harder than being the second, or the tenth, or the thousandth.

Not related to human endeavour, but to chemistry, I am going to have to be rather vague because I can't recall the details but it may jog the memory of someone who can - it was to do with chemists producing a certain chemical in the lab, at first successfully. After a while, one team had a problem with crystallisation, that made it impossible to produce the chemical - very soon everyone was having the same problem. Can anyone remember this?

 

[Floyd]

I'm not sure which comedian (possibly David Mitchell) did a long set piece rant about this phenomenon.

So and so is the first black/female/autistic/blind/solo etc. person to climb a Mountain. So and so is the quickest climb it, or the first to do it without some piece of equipment, etc.

His point was that once the first person has succeeded, it has been done. It is no longer something that may be impossible. That changes the mindset. Hillary and Tensing climbed Everest, therefore it is achievable.

Not only is the mindset different, but the climbing community gains and shares knowledge and experience from each new expedition. It doesn't need a new hand-waving argument that assumes new and unknown laws of cosmology and physics to explain why the second and third successful ascents are quicker than the first, and why it eventually becomes almost routine, with timetables, booking slots in the official diary, and climbers queueing for the summit.

Being the first is always harder than being the second, or the tenth, or the thousandth.

But that is different to morphic resonance though.
That's just people who keep trying something until eventually one of them succeeds.
Everything has to be done for the first time at some point.

 

[Min Bannister]

Not related to human endeavour, but to chemistry, I am going to have to be rather vague because I can't recall the details but it may jog the memory of someone who can - it was to do with chemists producing a certain chemical in the lab, at first successfully. After a while, one team had a problem with crystallisation, that made it impossible to produce the chemical - very soon everyone was having the same problem. Can anyone remember this?

This is probably not the same one but I had a problem in real life trying to get a chemical called b-cortol. After being able to buy it for years, suddenly no-one was able to produce it and I couldn't get it anywhere. Eventually after months or possibly a couple of years my usual company produced some and sent it to me. But when I ran it through my mass spec, it was not the right thing. The company denied it and I left that job so I don't know what the current situation is!

 

[Mythopoeika]

This is probably not the same one but I had a problem in real life trying to get a chemical called b-cortol. After being able to buy it for years, suddenly no-one was able to produce it and I couldn't get it anywhere. Eventually after months or possibly a couple of years my usual company produced some and sent it to me. But when I ran it through my mass spec, it was not the right thing. The company denied it and I left that job so I don't know what the current situation is!

It might be the same kind of problem that has made it almost impossible to obtain Betnovate, a medicine that has been available since I was a child. It's suddenly no longer available. Why? Nobody knows.

 

[SimonBurchell]

Not related to human endeavour, but to chemistry, I am going to have to be rather vague because I can't recall the details but it may jog the memory of someone who can - it was to do with chemists producing a certain chemical in the lab, at first successfully. After a while, one team had a problem with crystallisation, that made it impossible to produce the chemical - very soon everyone was having the same problem. Can anyone remember this?

I think I found where I read this by interrogating my Kindle - it seems to be from The Science Delusion by none other than Rupert Sheldrake, from around page 99 onwards. A couple of examples, but there is much more discussion:

Crystals of the same compound that exist in different forms are called polymorphs. Sometimes they coexist, like calcite and aragonite, both crystalline forms of calcium carbonate, or graphite and diamond, both crystalline forms of carbon. But sometimes, as in the case of xylitol, the appearance of a new polymorph can displace an old one. This principal is illustrated in the following account, taken from a textbook on crystallography, of the spontaneous and unexpected appearance of a new type of crystal in a factory:

[A] company was operating a factory which grew large single crystals of ethylene diamine tartrate from solution in water. From this plant it shipped the crystals many miles to another which cut and polished them for industrial use. A year after the factory opened, the crystals in the growing tanks began to grow badly; crystals of something else adhered to them - something which grew even more rapidly. The affliction soon spread to the other factory: the cut and polished crystals acquired the malady on their surfaces ... the wanted material was anhydrous ethelyne diamine tartrate, and the unwanted material turned out to be monohydrate of that substance. During three years of research and development, and another year of manufacture, no seed of the monohydrate had formed. After that, they seemed to be everywhere.

[...]

The replacement of one polymorph by another is a recurrent problem in the pharmaceutical industry. For example, the antibiotic ampicillin was first crystallised as a monohydrate, with one molecule of water of crystallisation per ampicillin molecule. In the 1960s it started to crystallise as a trihydrate, with a different crystal form, and despite persistent efforts, the monohydrate could not be made again.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I think I found where I read this by interrogating my Kindle - it seems to be from The Science Delusion by none other than Rupert Sheldrake, from around page 99 onwards. A couple of examples, but there is much more discussion:

Crystals of the same compound that exist in different forms are called polymorphs. Sometimes they coexist, like calcite and aragonite, both crystalline forms of calcium carbonate, or graphite and diamond, both crystalline forms of carbon. But sometimes, as in the case of xylitol, the appearance of a new polymorph can displace an old one. This principal is illustrated in the following account, taken from a textbook on crystallography, of the spontaneous and unexpected appearance of a new type of crystal in a factory:

[A] company was operating a factory which grew large single crystals of ethylene diamine tartrate from solution in water. From this plant it shipped the crystals many miles to another which cut and polished them for industrial use. A year after the factory opened, the crystals in the growing tanks began to grow badly; crystals of something else adhered to them - something which grew even more rapidly. The affliction soon spread to the other factory: the cut and polished crystals acquired the malady on their surfaces ... the wanted material was anhydrous ethelyne diamine tartrate, and the unwanted material turned out to be monohydrate of that substance. During three years of research and development, and another year of manufacture, no seed of the monohydrate had formed. After that, they seemed to be everywhere.

[...]

The replacement of one polymorph by another is a recurrent problem in the pharmaceutical industry. For example, the antibiotic ampicillin was first crystallised as a monohydrate, with one molecule of water of crystallisation per ampicillin molecule. In the 1960s it started to crystallise as a trihydrate, with a different crystal form, and despite persistent efforts, the monohydrate could not be made again.

That is a very odd occurrence.
Wonder how they'd explain that?

Edit: A few suggestions...

(A) Industrial sabotage.
(B) Accidental contamination by an employee travelling between sites.
(C) Raw materials that are being mined or obtained from natural sources don't have quite the same molecular properties as those that have previously been found.
(D) Subtle changes in Earth's magnetic and gravitational field may make these particular crystalline structures behave differently.
(E) A change in molecular or atomic density as the Solar System moves through space. Some parts of space may cause chemical properties to change, according to space's local 'underlying grid'. If this is true, then maybe we are in a Matrix-style simulation.

 

[SimonBurchell]

That is a very odd occurrence.
Wonder how they'd explain that?

Edit: A few suggestions...

(A) Industrial sabotage.
(B) Accidental contamination by an employee travelling between sites.
(C) Raw materials that are being mined or obtained from natural sources don't have quite the same molecular properties as those that have previously been found.
(D) Subtle changes in Earth's magnetic and gravitational field may make these particular crystalline structures behave differently.
(E) A change in molecular or atomic density as the Solar System moves through space. Some parts of space may cause chemical properties to change, according to space's local 'underlying grid'. If this is true, then maybe we are in a Matrix-style simulation.

If I might expand your list:

(F) Fairies (bloody fairies...)
(G) Witches
(H) Morphic resonance

But seriously, read the book if you can, it's available on Kindle and is very thought-provoking.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I might add another to the list... microwaves.

There are more microwaves whizzing about in our atmosphere than ever before, because of radio comms, radar, broadband, etc.
Anything that forms a fine spike may become an 'antenna' for microwaves. Fine crystal spikes may be picking up a bit of heat by interaction with microwaves, thereby affecting the normal growth of the crystals. My suggestion might be to conduct an experiment inside a suitably-shielded room, to see if the crystals grow normally.

 

[Mikefule]

But that is different to morphic resonance though.
That's just people who keep trying something until eventually one of them succeeds.
Everything has to be done for the first time at some point.

I think you miss my point. Once one person has done it for the first time, others follow, often in quick succession, faster, better, etc. It's as if doing it for the first time opens the floodgates for multiple repetitions. The fact that it has been done once actually makes it easier for those who follow.

This is a similar narrative to that associated with morphic resonance, but unlike morphic resonance, it can easily be explained by known principles.

 

[Steven]

Similar, perhaps, to the sub-four-minute mile & the sub-ten-seconds 100 metres. A mindset matter, as when Bob Beamon's famous long jump record was finally beaten.

 

[Sollywos]

But seriously, read the book if you can, it's available on Kindle and is very thought-provoking.

I was about to look at my kindle as your post up thread rang a bell so I assumed I must have read in my copy of the book. I found it fascinating but it was sometime ago that I read it.

 

[Tempest63]

It might be the same kind of problem that has made it almost impossible to obtain Betnovate, a medicine that has been available since I was a child. It's suddenly no longer available. Why? Nobody knows.

It’s available if your daughter is a manager of a certain Boots store and has a stock of the 100g tubes. I did ask her if I could purchase one for you but it is prescription only. ”A slightly stronger hydrocortisone“ is how she explained it to me.

The reason for the shortage is due to Brexit…something else she educated me on.

 

[Ermintruder]

Obviously crystals already possess lots of baggage in the annals of psuedoscientific divination and empowered self-optimisation (other projected belief systems are available but your mileage will vary, and only the real ones might work).

However, I did remember part of this extract below from 'A New Science of Life' which tantalisingly-implies that crystal growth-rates might be a non-linear function of how many previous existences (on a universal basis) already exist.

Hrrmmm. Shoot the messenger please do not.

In the case of morphic units that have existed for a very long time – billions of years in the case of the hydrogen atom – the morphogenetic field will be so well established as to be effectively changeless. Even the fields of morphic units that originated a few decades ago may be subject to the influence of so many past systems that any increments in this influence will be too small to be detectable. But with brand-new forms, it may well be possible to detect a cumulative morphic influence experimentally.

Consider a newly synthesized organic chemical that has never existed before. According to the hypothesis of formative causation, its crystalline form will not be predictable in advance, and no morphogenetic field for this form will yet exist. But after it has been crystallized for the first time, the form of its crystals will influence subsequent crystallizations by morphic resonance, and the more often it is crystallized, the stronger should this influence become. Thus on the first occasion, the substance may not crystallize at all readily; but on subsequent occasions crystallization should occur more and more easily as increasing numbers of past crystals contribute to its morphogenetic field by morphic resonance.

In fact, chemists who have synthesized entirely new chemicals often have great difficulty in getting these substances to crystallize. But as time goes on, these substances tend to crystallize with greater and greater ease. Sometimes many years pass before crystals first appear. For example, turanose, a kind of sugar, was considered to be a liquid for decades, but after it first crystallized in the 1920s it formed crystals all over the world. Even more striking are cases in which one kind of crystal appears, and is then replaced by another. For example, xylitol, a sugar alcohol used as a sweetener in chewing gum, was first prepared in 1891 and was considered to be a liquid until 1942, when a form melting at 61°C crystallized out. Several years later another form appeared, with a melting point of 94°C, and thereafter the first form could not be made again.

 

[Mythopoeika]

It’s available if your daughter is a manager of a certain Boots store and has a stock of the 100g tubes. I did ask her if I could purchase one for you but it is prescription only. ”A slightly stronger hydrocortisone“ is how she explained it to me.

The reason for the shortage is due to Brexit…something else she educated me on.

Thanks for the thought, but I was prescribed something else for now. We'll see if that works.
I understood it to be a worldwide shortage. Manufacturers are blaming 'manufacturing issues' and also the inability to keep up with a massively increased demand.

 

[Floyd]

I think you miss my point. Once one person has done it for the first time, others follow, often in quick succession, faster, better, etc. It's as if doing it for the first time opens the floodgates for multiple repetitions. The fact that it has been done once actually makes it easier for those who follow.

This is a similar narrative to that associated with morphic resonance, but unlike morphic resonance, it can easily be explained by known principles.

Agreed.

 

[User7597]

There's a very good documentary called "The Creeping Garden", about Slime Mould -