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Panic: A Genuine Example In The Old Sense Of The Word?

I am interested becuase of the known experience of some people on high pressure days - headaches, irritability, slight dissociation.

Helpful? @catseye
Interesting to know that there may be a link! I know I am more likely to be energetic and happy on high pressure days, but then I'm not sure if that's because I tend to prefer heat and sunshine. So it could be that the weather influences my mood, rather than the more 'woo' explanation of it being the high pressure. Do those who suffer irritability etc during high pressure episodes like or dislike the associated weather?
 
Are the majority of experiences of panic here undergone during any particular weather conditions? Reading through it seems that warm, still and sunny weather - as opposed to gales and rain - are most conducive.
For my experience related above, the weather was overcast and relatively chilly for the time and place (maybe around 20°C - it got to 30°C later in the week)
 
For my experience related above, the weather was overcast and relatively chilly for the time and place (maybe around 20°C - it got to 30°C later in the week)
I think 20 degrees is fairly warm, and if it was overcast was the air also very still?
 
Do those who suffer irritability etc during high pressure episodes like or dislike the associated weather?

totally unscientific sample of available friends and relatives:

8 asked, 6 said they found high pressure events unpleasant if they lasted too long. Two said eh?

The two were divided as to liking or not liking the weather.

The six were 4:2 in favour of liking the weather.

Twice people said it is was a feeling of opression and skittishness. Further, this was associated with just before thunder storms so we may have difficulty separating high pressure and thunder storm events - they are already linked!
 
totally unscientific sample of available friends and relatives:

8 asked, 6 said they found high pressure events unpleasant if they lasted too long. Two said eh?

The two were divided as to liking or not liking the weather.

The six were 4:2 in favour of liking the weather.

Twice people said it is was a feeling of opression and skittishness. Further, this was associated with just before thunder storms so we may have difficulty separating high pressure and thunder storm events - they are already linked!
Hm, yes, there often is a feeling of unpleasantness before a thunderstorm. But, again, I'm not sure whether this is to do with pressure or changing weather (if you've been outside on a glorious day and are driven in by increasing cloud and likely rain).

I think we may need a larger sample size and more investigation! And also, reports from those suffering from Pan-ic incidents, about the weather conditions at the time.
 
I certainly wouldn't laugh. I consider myself an emotionally very robust person, but was once reduced to a blubbering wreck in circumstances which may not have been entirely dissimilar. I've posted the story in a couple of places, but it's kind of relevant here, so I'll cut and paste. I can't say that my experience was one of panic - it was more along the lines of what a more spiritual person might call a spiritual experience. But maybe the two things are not entirely unconnected:

...

Some years back I was walking up above Monsal Dale in the White Peak area of Derbyshire. It's a tramp I've done many times and I'm very familiar with the landscape, so I wasn't seeing anything new.

One of the advantages of being self-employed is that I can shift my timetable around somewhat, and tend to walk during the week, when the paths are quieter than they might be at weekends - and on this particular day, barely a soul was around.

At a point around halfway along the route I made my way up from Monsal Head, a local beauty spot with car park and great views over Ruskin's vale of Tempe - somewhat famous, along with the viaduct that crosses it, from old British Rail posters. Although connected to a focal point for tourists and walkers, the path I follow is not so obvious, and - even on busy days - rarely seems to get used.

I love the White Peak's rolling hills and crags, the ever present network of dry-stone walls, the sense of height that I always feel when on the limestone plateau; and the day in question was truly beautiful - warm, but with a perfect breeze, a deep blue sky, the path crazy with wildflowers, and the hawthorn in bloom.

The day was so beautiful, in fact, that I had to keep stopping - more than usual - to soak it all in.

And then, at some point, a sense of unreality started to strike me: the sky seemed almost too blue, the wildflowers almost too vibrant, the breeze whistling through the walls almost too relaxing - everything was almost too beautiful. At first, I shook off this uncanny (although not unpleasant) feeling, but as I continued walking the sense of an awesome, otherworldly beauty actually increased to a level that became almost overbearing, as if something was quite literally taking my breath away, and - although this is going to sound nuts, now - there came a point where I thought I might actually have died on the path, and be seeing something not entirely of this world. I actually looked down at myself, and back along the path, to see if I was lying down somewhere - and I seem to recall, cliche though it might be, that I pinched my arm as hard as I could.

When I reached the junction with another path I was to take, I actually choked up and sobbed - I think more in the way of some sort of physical release, rather than an emotional response - and did what every true born Brit does in times of emotional overload: sat down and had a mug of splosh.

If I was a spiritual or religious person, maybe I'd say that I had a spiritual experience - or some sort of epiphany. Now, when I look back on it I think of it as the land emphasising something that I knew all along - that nature is absolutely fucking awesome...and don't you forget it.

Although not taken on the same day - these two pictures are from the precise point of view of the place I took my rest, and the conditions are more or less as they were on that day:

View attachment 65487

View attachment 65488
This to me sounds like a descritpion of a Peak Experience - of the kind that Colin Wislon banged on about a lot.

Possibly the inverse corollary of this is `existential angst` of the kinds that numerous late Nineteenth and Twentieth Century Europeam philosophers have discussed.

I have, possibly, had two such incidents in my life myself - and the more recent one I made the subject of a thread:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/a-sudden-sense-of-unreality.68119/

In my case the beauties of nature where not what brought these episodes on - in fact the latter one took place in the ultra-urban environment of a Moscow metro carriage. In fact, I have no idea what brought them on - and if I knew how to trigger them I would, because - even though I found them frightening - the word `vertigo` doesn't really cover it, but it seems the best I can do -I did feel as though some obscured truth had been brought to my attention - and which was then obscured again when the brief revelation had gone.

Neither your, nor my experience, however seem to be to be related to anything like the sense of `P:anic` which this thread is concerned with.
 
Neither your, nor my experience, however seem to be to be related to anything like the sense of `P:anic` which this thread is concerned with.
But it may be. Perhaps the sense of Pan-ic just manifests differently in different individuals. Some may feel irrational fear and a desire to flee, whereas others feel an overwhelming sense of ecstacy and one-ness with the universe.

Has anyone ever suffered from both?
 
totally unscientific sample of available friends and relatives:

8 asked, 6 said they found high pressure events unpleasant if they lasted too long. Two said eh?

The two were divided as to liking or not liking the weather.

The six were 4:2 in favour of liking the weather.

Twice people said it is was a feeling of opression and skittishness. Further, this was associated with just before thunder storms so we may have difficulty separating high pressure and thunder storm events - they are already linked!
Yep, both of they. Doing some work on the weirdness of lightening right now - worth a look at Schumann Resonances, which are the EM frequencies that are essentially channeled around the earth between the ground and the ionosphere (it's a kind of wave guide). The first two are ≈8 Hz and ≈14 Hz both in the range of the working frequencies of the brain, so it's feasible that thunderstorms might cause unease. Or something.

I'm wondering if high air pressure increases blood pressure a bit.
 
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...Neither your, nor my experience, however seem to be to be related to anything like the sense of `P:anic` which this thread is concerned with.

I'm not so sure. The more I think about it the more I wonder if there's a possibility that they might be different responses to the same type of stimuli. I don't think it would be a simple either/or, depending on - for instance - the character of the protagonist, or the specifics of the environment. I think it would be more complex, and less predictable, than that would allow. I'm not totally convinced - and would certainly still entertain the idea that they are completely unconnected. But, reading through the thread, and thinking about my own experiences, I think there's at least a possibility worth thinking about.
 
...Twice people said it is was a feeling of opression and skittishness. Further, this was associated with just before thunder storms so we may have difficulty separating high pressure and thunder storm events - they are already linked!

I get what my dad called 'thunder head' (he suffered too) in the hours before a storm - but I don't think those types of headaches are uncommon under the particular circumstances. That said, I can sometimes feel a storm coming long before people around me - and it tends to be signalled by a very specific type of headache.

Rather than oppression or skittishness - although I kind of recognise those elements too - my own experience tends to be a sort of disconnectedness. I'd compare it to a very particular type of deja vu I experience when I'm with a group of other people and feel myself pulled away from the direct environment and somehow looking at it, and myself, from one remove. (Although clearly very similar, in my personal experience of the phenomenon the particular type of deja vu I experience when with others is somehow distinct from the one I experience when alone - and I don't think it's simply down to those elements being the background, I think the feeling itself is somehow distinct, but would find it very difficult to describe how.)
 
I certainly wouldn't laugh. I consider myself an emotionally very robust person, but was once reduced to a blubbering wreck in circumstances which may not have been entirely dissimilar. I've posted the story in a couple of places, but it's kind of relevant here, so I'll cut and paste. I can't say that my experience was one of panic - it was more along the lines of what a more spiritual person might call a spiritual experience. But maybe the two things are not entirely unconnected:

...

Some years back I was walking up above Monsal Dale in the White Peak area of Derbyshire. It's a tramp I've done many times and I'm very familiar with the landscape, so I wasn't seeing anything new.

One of the advantages of being self-employed is that I can shift my timetable around somewhat, and tend to walk during the week, when the paths are quieter than they might be at weekends - and on this particular day, barely a soul was around.

At a point around halfway along the route I made my way up from Monsal Head, a local beauty spot with car park and great views over Ruskin's vale of Tempe - somewhat famous, along with the viaduct that crosses it, from old British Rail posters. Although connected to a focal point for tourists and walkers, the path I follow is not so obvious, and - even on busy days - rarely seems to get used.

I love the White Peak's rolling hills and crags, the ever present network of dry-stone walls, the sense of height that I always feel when on the limestone plateau; and the day in question was truly beautiful - warm, but with a perfect breeze, a deep blue sky, the path crazy with wildflowers, and the hawthorn in bloom.

The day was so beautiful, in fact, that I had to keep stopping - more than usual - to soak it all in.

And then, at some point, a sense of unreality started to strike me: the sky seemed almost too blue, the wildflowers almost too vibrant, the breeze whistling through the walls almost too relaxing - everything was almost too beautiful. At first, I shook off this uncanny (although not unpleasant) feeling, but as I continued walking the sense of an awesome, otherworldly beauty actually increased to a level that became almost overbearing, as if something was quite literally taking my breath away, and - although this is going to sound nuts, now - there came a point where I thought I might actually have died on the path, and be seeing something not entirely of this world. I actually looked down at myself, and back along the path, to see if I was lying down somewhere - and I seem to recall, cliche though it might be, that I pinched my arm as hard as I could.

When I reached the junction with another path I was to take, I actually choked up and sobbed - I think more in the way of some sort of physical release, rather than an emotional response - and did what every true born Brit does in times of emotional overload: sat down and had a mug of splosh.

If I was a spiritual or religious person, maybe I'd say that I had a spiritual experience - or some sort of epiphany. Now, when I look back on it I think of it as the land emphasising something that I knew all along - that nature is absolutely fucking awesome...and don't you forget it.

Although not taken on the same day - these two pictures are from the precise point of view of the place I took my rest, and the conditions are more or less as they were on that day:

View attachment 65487

View attachment 65488
Beautiful pics and area, @Spookdaddy. The beautiful open blue sky. I can understand your reaction to this area.
 
What a fascinating experience. We talk of being moved by the beauty of nature and, at its best, the English countryside is just perfection. Isn’t it so often the case tho’ that our expressions of appreciation have about them more of the dutiful and obligatory, as tho’ we’re anxious not to seem utterly insensitive to the natural beauty that surrounds us. We see it, know it to be beautiful, and truly believe this yet struggle to admit that despite it all, we’re not genuinely, truly moved by it, just know that we ‘ought’ to be. I think very few of us actually get to experience the full Wordsworth as it were; that intense, unmediated and direct total immersion in the beauty of it all. Man, I envy your experience! - glorious photos by the way, thanks.
 
What a fascinating experience. We talk of being moved by the beauty of nature and, at its best, the English countryside is just perfection. Isn’t it so often the case tho’ that our expressions of appreciation have about them more of the dutiful and obligatory, as tho’ we’re anxious not to seem utterly insensitive to the natural beauty that surrounds us. We see it, know it to be beautiful, and truly believe this yet struggle to admit that despite it all, we’re not genuinely, truly moved by it, just know that we ‘ought’ to be. I think very few of us actually get to experience the full Wordsworth as it were; that intense, unmediated and direct total immersion in the beauty of it all. Man, I envy your experience! - glorious photos by the way, thanks.
I've never suffered from 'obligatory appreciation' because I actually DO become utterly immersed in the surroundings but I have been on walks with people who, on being shown the wide-open glory of, say, the North York Moors, have barely looked up. They usually say something like 'I'd hate to live somewhere this open', or 'it's just a lot of green' (I have had both those responses).

Maybe it's different types of people? I know so many who will sigh happily on reaching a summit, and spend ages taking in the view, and yet others will barely gaze around and want to come down as soon as possible. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that reaction, just...odd.
 
I've never suffered from 'obligatory appreciation' because I actually DO become utterly immersed in the surroundings but I have been on walks with people who, on being shown the wide-open glory of, say, the North York Moors, have barely looked up. They usually say something like 'I'd hate to live somewhere this open', or 'it's just a lot of green' (I have had both those responses).

Maybe it's different types of people? I know so many who will sigh happily on reaching a summit, and spend ages taking in the view, and yet others will barely gaze around and want to come down as soon as possible. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that reaction, just...odd.
Townies might have such a reaction, maybe? People who've spent all their lives in a big city might find all that beauty a bit overwhelming.
 
Townies might have such a reaction, maybe? People who've spent all their lives in a big city might find all that beauty a bit overwhelming.
Beauty is subjective. Believe it or not, some people actually don't like nature. About half a mile down the road from me is a large traffic triangle completely overgrown with native deciduous woodland, a few years ago the council put in a paved path across, but before that it was a little patch of wild between a junction of main roads, and I've always liked it. Years ago, before the path was put in, someone wrote to the local paper that it was awful and ugly and should all be cut down, "it's like jungle"... well, yes it was like jungle, but that is its beauty. Yet someone truly thought that this wild patch was so ugly that he wanted it all cut down and paved over. I can't understand it myself.
 
Beauty is subjective. Believe it or not, some people actually don't like nature. About half a mile down the road from me is a large traffic triangle completely overgrown with native deciduous woodland, a few years ago the council put in a paved path across, but before that it was a little patch of wild between a junction of main roads, and I've always liked it. Years ago, before the path was put in, someone wrote to the local paper that it was awful and ugly and should all be cut down, "it's like jungle"... well, yes it was like jungle, but that is its beauty. Yet someone truly thought that this wild patch was so ugly that he wanted it all cut down and paved over. I can't understand it myself.
It just shows how removed from nature some people are.
 
And also that some people prefer their nature to be sanitised. Some people' 'wild and natural' is other people's 'scruffy and overgrown'. Look at how people tend to garden.
I was talking about this with my Mum the other day. Her new neighbours removed all the flowers and border plants, so now they have just a huge lawn with nothing else. My Mum's garden is mostly pretty wild.
My Mum and I both agree that a wild garden is essential for preserving all kinds of wildlife. She has birds, squirrels and insects, the neighbour just has grass.
 
I was talking about this with my Mum the other day. Her new neighbours removed all the flowers and border plants, so now they have just a huge lawn with nothing else. My Mum's garden is mostly pretty wild.
My Mum and I both agree that a wild garden is essential for preserving all kinds of wildlife. She has birds, squirrels and insects, the neighbour just has grass.
Some people prefer their gardens to be entirely 'gardened', with lawns cut every three days, not a weed in sight and annual flowers grown for their appearance rather than their insect attracting capabilities. These people often also have impeccable houses and hate the thought of 'bugs' being anywhere near them. It's what they think of as 'nice'. So it would be no wonder if they couldn't appreciate a hay meadow or a half-flooded bogland - to them it would be untidy.
 
Some people prefer their gardens to be entirely 'gardened', with lawns cut every three days, not a weed in sight and annual flowers grown for their appearance rather than their insect attracting capabilities. These people often also have impeccable houses and hate the thought of 'bugs' being anywhere near them. It's what they think of as 'nice'. So it would be no wonder if they couldn't appreciate a hay meadow or a half-flooded bogland - to them it would be untidy.
Yeah, I love the point at which the daisies form a floating white cloud over a lawn... but as soon as they do, you can bet they will be mercilessly mown into green blandness.
 
Yeah, I love the point at which the daisies form a floating white cloud over a lawn... but as soon as they do, you can bet they will be mercilessly mown into green blandness.
I'm doing a bit of an experiment this year - I am mowing one half of my lawn (it's one side of a path, not anything bizarre like a line up the middle) and leaving the other half uncut for a year to see what happens. I do have to admit that the unmown side is driving me crazy because it's completely full of weeds like creeping buttercup and the wildflower seeds I planted in it have shown no signs of emergence, but I am holding on to see what happens...
 
I'm doing a bit of an experiment this year - I am mowing one half of my lawn (it's one side of a path, not anything bizarre like a line up the middle) and leaving the other half uncut for a year to see what happens. I do have to admit that the unmown side is driving me crazy because it's completely full of weeds like creeping buttercup and the wildflower seeds I planted in it have shown no signs of emergence, but I am holding on to see what happens...
If you can tolerate the scruffiness, it will great!
 
...the wildflower seeds I planted in it have shown no signs of emergence, but I am holding on to see what happens...

In my experience it can take a while for them to establish. I planted a load of wildflower bulbs a couple of years back (ramson, snakeshead fritillary, wood anemone).

As advised, I planted around late September. Nothing much happened the following year: the ramsons showed a few leaves but not much flower, and one lonely snakeshead poked above the grass.

This year, much more is happening - and , if such growth is exponential, I'm thinking next year my scrappy bit of lawn will look great.
 
I've never suffered from 'obligatory appreciation' because I actually DO become utterly immersed in the surroundings but I have been on walks with people who, on being shown the wide-open glory of, say, the North York Moors, have barely looked up. They usually say something like 'I'd hate to live somewhere this open', or 'it's just a lot of green' (I have had both those responses).

Maybe it's different types of people? I know so many who will sigh happily on reaching a summit, and spend ages taking in the view, and yet others will barely gaze around and want to come down as soon as possible. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that reaction, just...odd.
I watched a programme earlier this week called 'A walk through my life' with a footballist named Paul Merson (I thought it said Merton so that's why I turned it on) where he filmed his walk in North Yorkshire.

I know nothing about him other than what was said in the prog, but he had trouble opening gates on footpaths as he'd obviously never done it before- I must have opened millions of them- but he genuinely seemed amazed at how lovely the place was.
He said that when he moved up north and had all this on his doorstep, he still didn't go. He was only interested in the pub.

I'm not knocking the chap- he seemed ok- but a lot depends on the circumstances you grow up in- in his case London.
Converseley, I'd be useless in a big city. I'd be saying 'hello' to everyone for a start.
 
Some people prefer their gardens to be entirely 'gardened', with lawns cut every three days, not a weed in sight and annual flowers grown for their appearance rather than their insect attracting capabilities. These people often also have impeccable houses and hate the thought of 'bugs' being anywhere near them. It's what they think of as 'nice'. So it would be no wonder if they couldn't appreciate a hay meadow or a half-flooded bogland - to them it would be untidy.
I used to be like this. Everything straight and regimented and certainly no cobwebs or dust etc in the house.

These last few years however, I have changed my viewpoint to a certain degree. It probably helps that we don't have 'visitors', but for eg as I type, there is 'Floyd' written in the dust at the base of the monitor that MrsF wrote at least five years ago. I couldn't have left that for more than a day at one time.
 
I have quite a few bushes and flowers in my front yard and I remember a couple of years ago a woman who had recently moved into the court commenting that I should cut it all down. I asked her if it upset her and she answered "yes"
Her house had only concrete.
 
I have quite a few bushes and flowers in my front yard and I remember a couple of years ago a woman who had recently moved into the court commenting that I should cut it all down. I asked her if it upset her and she answered "yes"
Her house had only concrete.
Is it really any of her business? And surprising that beauty 'upsets her'.
 
Is it really any of her business? And surprising that beauty 'upsets her'.
Yes none of the foliage overhangs the footpath where she would be doing her walking.
Not sure if she's the one who drops their cigarette butts and packets on the path and in the garden.
Our council is trying to get people to keep trees and make it greener as it lowers the temperature.
 
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