Pathological Or Compulsive Lying

[Nosmo King]

But what's the point in telling everyone, as an adult, that you've climed Everest/toured with Led Zeppelin/been married to the woman out of Dollar/been in the SAS... when you know it's all bull? That's what I could never understand with these types and I've met a few of them. Even went out with one (although she was from Crewe, so...). It's one thing to say that you Dad is Bruce Lee when you're 5, but when you're 45? - I suppose that's where the 'compulsive' bit comes in!

Reminds me of this great song,
'Nizlopi - JCB Song'

 

[Floyd]

You courted a lass who’d climbed Everest and been in the SAS? lf l hadn’t rogered my way through Pan’s People before becoming an astronaut, l might have been jealous of you!

maximus otter

Actually, her bull wasn't too far from that believe it or not.

 

[Floyd]

Reminds me of this great song,
'Nizlopi - JCB Song'

I was thinking about this the other day! There was a film on about Bruce Lee. It then meant I spent all the next day saying ''be like water'' in a terrible Chinese accent. I'm really too old to be doing that, I admit.

 

[Floyd]

I should think the point is that the other people don't know that it's bull. Hopefully.

But when it's such extreme stuff how can they really believe that we'll believe it?

 

[Xanatic*]

You can fool some of the people all the time.

 

[ChasFink]

It's one thing to say that you Dad is Bruce Lee when you're 5, but when you're 45?

Actually, if a 5-year-old walked up to me now and said his Dad is Bruce Lee, I'd be interested. Not because it's likely, but because of the fascinating metaphysical implications in the unlikely case it is true.

 

[Floyd]

Tell us more about the liar from Crewe.

(Limerick form will do.)

I once went with a girl from Crewe
Who told me the most ridiculous doo-doo
It wasn't Scargy by the way
She was cycling in San José
So I left town on the choo-choo.

 

[Floyd]

l used to be good mates with a bloke who’s a compulsive liar. l still see him most weeks (when society was normal, all that time ago), but now l just nod distantly at him; at most l’ll pass the time of day, but that’s it.

The bizarre thing about him is that he’s actually done enough in real life to dine out on a different true anecdote every night for the rest of his life!

Here are some things about him that l know for a fact and have verified with my own eyes:

• He’s a retired senior officer in the UK armed forces
• His unit was...very much out of the ordinary (is all that l’ll say)
• He held significant posts of authority in said unit
• He has worked closely enough with the SAS to get a Christmas card from them
• He has been arrested by the Russian army, and has a photo to prove it

Since retirement he has:

• Been headhunted by a large Japanese concern to lecture on his speciality in Japan (more than once, as a long-term resident)
• Been employed using his special skills in a reputable group’s search for the Loch Ness monster, and has appeared on UK telly while doing it
• Been employed as an expert witness in serious UK Crown Court cases

- Among other things.

You’d think that was enough, wouldn’t you? But no, he has to tell the most transparent, bullshit whoppers. Repeatedly. To people who’d know better, like me.

An example? He was once stationed at a well-known UK armed forces base, and asserted to me that staff there had noticed that one large building seemed to be 40 feet longer, when measured from the outside, than from the inside. When a false wall at the end was knocked down, it revealed an intact WW2 German Tiger tank! He and l both have a keen and well-informed interest in such things. Even as he told me this load of old b******s, he must have known that l knew it was a LOB, but he spieled it off nonetheless...

Another? He had a mate in the RAF, who had a Triumph Spitfire with the personalised number plate FLY 1T. Said mate had been killed when he approached an (obstacle) far too fast, and instead of braking/steering, had reflexively “pulled back on the stick” to try and gain altitude. (a) Cobblers! and (b) How was that established? Do Triumphs have “black boxes” fitted?

For almost two decades l just looked blankly at him as he reeled off whopper after whopper, then one day l just decided, “Enough”, and cut him off.

It’s a damn shame as he’s an intelligent, fun, generous, diverting bloke, but l’d reached my limit.

As another mate of mine used to say about a bullshitter he used to know, “If you’ve got a black cat, he’s got one that’s blacker.”

maximus otter

Now that's very odd considering all the stuff he really had done. Very strange behaviour.

 

[escargot]

But what's the point in telling everyone, as an adult, that you've climed Everest/toured with Led Zeppelin/been married to the woman out of Dollar/been in the SAS... when you know it's all bull? That's what I could never understand with these types and I've met a few of them. Even went out with one (although she was from Crewe, so...). It's one thing to say that you Dad is Bruce Lee when you're 5, but when you're 45? - I suppose that's where the 'compulsive' bit comes in!

Sometimes I've had the impression liars're telling themselves these stories.
Like, they wish they could do these things because telling others about them is part of the fun, so they miss out all the hard work and cut to the self-aggrandising chase.

In that context it doesn't matter whether they're believed or not. Spinning the yarn is the whole point.
It's not harmless as they can seriously drop themselves in it but that's their problem.

 

[Floyd]

Sometimes I've had the impression liars're telling themselves these stories.
Like, they wish they could do these things because telling others about them is part of the fun, so they miss out all the hard work and cut to the self-aggrandising chase.

In that context it doesn't matter whether they're believed or not. Spinning the yarn is the whole point.
It's not harmless as they can seriously drop themselves in it but that's their problem.

Yes, I agree. And you know what they say- to be a good liar you have to have a good memory. That's why I'd be no good in MI6.
Diabolical Murderous Dictator; ''What school did you go to?'' Me; ''What's that?''. DMD; ''I said what school did you go to?''. Me; ''Me, what school did I go to?, ''What school did I go to''? Er, er, er er umm umm...''

 

[escargot]

Yes, I agree. And you know what they say- to be a good liar you have to have a good memory. That's why I'd be no good in MI6.
Diabolical Murderous Dictator; ''What school did you go to?'' Me; ''What's that?''. DMD; ''I said what school did you go to?''. Me; ''Me, what school did I go to?, ''What school did I go to''? Er, er, er er umm umm...''

David Niven wrote about a restaurateur he knew called Michael Romanoff, a con man with a prodigious memory. Nobody could catch him out.

Wikipedia has a page on him which mentions the cricket match conundrum. Makes your brain 'urt.

 

[catseye]

Sometimes I've had the impression liars're telling themselves these stories.
Like, they wish they could do these things because telling others about them is part of the fun, so they miss out all the hard work and cut to the self-aggrandising chase.

In that context it doesn't matter whether they're believed or not. Spinning the yarn is the whole point.
It's not harmless as they can seriously drop themselves in it but that's their problem.

I work with a bloke who seems to be on the lowest possible rung of this ladder. In that he doesn't lie compulsively, but he does interrupt conversations in such a way as to try to be 'one up' on the participants. For example, a customer might be asking me about my latest book - he will chime in with 'I wrote a book once, shortest book in history, four words, Chapter One, The End.' Now it's obviously aimed as being 'Just A Joke', but it effectively stops the conversation dead (preventing me, who is now gritting her teeth like crazy, from promoting the new book) and forces all participants to smile in a 'jolly, we know it's just a joke, ha ha, very funny' way.

It's almost like a system of control, which is similar, I think, to the compulsive lie. 'You must all listen to me and agree with what I say.'

Poor chap is generally well-liked, just not very bright.

 

[Nosmo King]

I work with a bloke who seems to be on the lowest possible rung of this ladder. In that he doesn't lie compulsively, but he does interrupt conversations in such a way as to try to be 'one up' on the participants. For example, a customer might be asking me about my latest book - he will chime in with 'I wrote a book once, shortest book in history, four words, Chapter One, The End.' Now it's obviously aimed as being 'Just A Joke', but it effectively stops the conversation dead (preventing me, who is now gritting her teeth like crazy, from promoting the new book) and forces all participants to smile in a 'jolly, we know it's just a joke, ha ha, very funny' way.

It's almost like a system of control, which is similar, I think, to the compulsive lie. 'You must all listen to me and agree with what I say.'

Poor chap is generally well-liked, just not very bright.

A bit like 'Baldricks magnificent octopus'

 

[catseye]

A bit like 'Baldricks magnificent octopus'

Baldrick's anything is fine by me!

 

[Ogdred Weary]

I work with a bloke who seems to be on the lowest possible rung of this ladder. In that he doesn't lie compulsively, but he does interrupt conversations in such a way as to try to be 'one up' on the participants. For example, a customer might be asking me about my latest book - he will chime in with 'I wrote a book once, shortest book in history, four words, Chapter One, The End.' Now it's obviously aimed as being 'Just A Joke', but it effectively stops the conversation dead (preventing me, who is now gritting her teeth like crazy, from promoting the new book) and forces all participants to smile in a 'jolly, we know it's just a joke, ha ha, very funny' way.

It's almost like a system of control, which is similar, I think, to the compulsive lie. 'You must all listen to me and agree with what I say.'

Poor chap is generally well-liked, just not very bright.

I know a woman who constantly interrupts, she has to have something to contribute to what's being said and will sometimes come out with something every time someone else makes a statement. Virtually everything is an anecdote about something that has happened to her or her family, almost always unfortunate, from the mild to the very extreme. Someone pointing out a large group of nettles prompted: "I fell in some nettles when I was a kid and was stuck from head to toe". I have no idea what percentage is true, I dare say a lot of it and the exaggerations and untruths are more likely fantasies than outright lies.

She's a nice person but the relentless non-sequiturs constantly derail conversations where they don't grind them to a halt.

 

[escargot]

I know a woman who constantly interrupts, she has to have something to contribute to what's being said and will sometimes come out with something every time someone else makes a statement. Virtually everything is an anecdote about something that has happened to her or her family, almost always unfortunate, from the mild to the very extreme. Someone pointing out a large group of nettles prompted: "I fell in some nettles when I was a kid and was stuck from head to toe". I have no idea what percentage is true, I dare say a lot of it and the exaggerations and untruths are more likely fantasies than outright lies.

She's a nice person but the relentless non-sequiturs constantly derail conversations where they don't grind them to a halt.

Y'all need a strategy to deal with that. It's anti-social.

 

[Ogdred Weary]

Y'all need a strategy to deal with that. It's anti-social.

Yeah, I totally agree. She's new and is always friendly and upbeat, even when talking about some horrific stuff but it is maddening and warps everything around her. I suspect it's a lack of confidence and a lack of social skills but ends up affecting everyone else, I wander away or ignore where possible, not sure where else to go with it as she's genuinely nice so can't really tell her to shut up.

 

[escargot]

Yeah, I totally agree. She's new and is always friendly and upbeat, even when talking about some horrific stuff but it is maddening and warps everything around her. I suspect it's a lack of confidence and a lack of social skills but ends up affecting everyone else, I wander away or ignore where possible, not sure where else to go with it as she's genuinely nice so can't really tell her to shut up.

When I've had this at work I've sometimes said 'Aaaand THERE 'e goes with 'is two penn'orth!'
When they reply they get 'You always have something to say!' with a smile. It does make people think twice. If they are capable of thought.

Or if it's constant interruptions, they've got a flat out 'DO you mind?' as it's really rude.
Whatever the reason for their rudeness you don't have to put up with it. If they need to learn manners you're doing them a favour.

 

[catseye]

Yeah, I totally agree. She's new and is always friendly and upbeat, even when talking about some horrific stuff but it is maddening and warps everything around her. I suspect it's a lack of confidence and a lack of social skills but ends up affecting everyone else, I wander away or ignore where possible, not sure where else to go with it as she's genuinely nice so can't really tell her to shut up.

Is she neurotypical? My friend's son (who has Asperger's) cannot do 'conversation', so when people are talking he will interrupt with a random non sequiteur about something his cat did that day, or whatever is in the top of his mind at the time. He knows that conversation consist of one person saying something, then another person replying, but he can't get to grips with the fact that the reply ought to be on a similar topic to that under discussion. He thinks one person talks, then another person talks. Your person sounds as though she's slightly further in in understanding that the contribution should be 'on topic' but lacks the social skills to interpret 'on topic'.

 

[Ogdred Weary]

Is she neurotypical? My friend's son (who has Asperger's) cannot do 'conversation', so when people are talking he will interrupt with a random non sequiteur about something his cat did that day, or whatever is in the top of his mind at the time. He knows that conversation consist of one person saying something, then another person replying, but he can't get to grips with the fact that the reply ought to be on a similar topic to that under discussion. He thinks one person talks, then another person talks. Your person sounds as though she's slightly further in in understanding that the contribution should be 'on topic' but lacks the social skills to interpret 'on topic'.

Probably neurotypical, complaining about it makes her sound worse than she actually is but it is striking how much everything has to relate to something that has happened to her.

When I've had this at work I've sometimes said 'Aaaand THERE 'e goes with 'is two penn'orth!'
When they reply they get 'You always have something to say!' with a smile. It does make people think twice. If they are capable of thought.

Or if it's constant interruptions, they've got a flat out 'DO you mind?' as it's really rude.
Whatever the reason for their rudeness you don't have to put up with it. If they need to learn manners you're doing them a favour.

In fairness perhaps I'm slightly misusing the term "interrupt", it's more a case of jumping in as soon as someone finished speaking, rather than breaking someone off mid-flow, though she does do that as well.

These (usually brief) anecdotes make up at least 50% of what she says, though she will reply to others or comment on things said without necessarily referring to herself.

 

[Nosmo King]

Probably neurotypical, complaining about it makes her sound worse than she actually is but it is striking how much everything has to relate to something that has happened to her.



In fairness perhaps I'm slightly misusing the term "interrupt", it's more a case of jumping in as soon as someone finished speaking, rather than breaking someone off mid-flow, though she does do that as well.

These (usually brief) anecdotes make up at least 50% of what she says, though she will reply to others or comment on things said without necessarily referring to herself.

I'm always in favour of the 'ignore what the but'er in'er has just said', continue the conversation you were having with, 'anyway as I was saying...'

 

[Ogdred Weary]

I'm always in favour of the 'ignore what the but'er in'er has just said', continue the conversation you were having with, 'anyway as I was saying...'

I do something similar most of the time: I either reply to what the previous person said ignoring her comments or repeat what I've said if she came in after me and no one else has replied. I feel a little guilty though this is rapidly fading. It is a bit of a conundrum where someone is harmless or actively nice but just deeply annoying.

 

[Min Bannister]

I am lucky in that I have not had much experience of this type of person except one at my work who just came up in conversation today. He lied and manipulated people until they wised up to him. Some never did. He got himself a job at a prestigious institution by lying on his CV and promising all sorts which never materialised. He lasted less than a year as they will have seen through him quickly enough.

He is now apparently undergoing astronaut training while running his Biotech company (doesn't really exist) and learning advanced Russian (in order to talk with cosmonauts). Anyway it gets even better as I just tried an internet search for his name. I didn't find him but I did find a load of stuff about a man of the same name who was unmasked as making a living off being a huge fat liar. It was pretty high profile and it could just be a co-incidence but maybe our man is even bigger fraud than we thought and took an assumed name from another fraud?

 

[Cochise]

I did have a friend for many years - a good and generous friend - who nevertheless had a very difficult relationship with the truth. With hindsight, I think in his case it was born out of insecurity and a desperate need to fit in.

I knew him as a friend - I once bumped into him with his work colleagues and it was like meeting a completely different person. Sadly he eventually committed suicide, some time after our lives had moved apart.

 

[ramonmercado]

I think the epic scale of this guy's lies qualifies as Fortean. There may be a Thread for this kind of fantasist but if so, I couldn't find it.

Congressperson elect George Santos also lied about his family fleeing Nazi Germany​

JASON WEISBERGER 11:34 AM THU DEC 22, 2022

In addition to falsifying his resume to fantastic proportions, NY's newest congressperson-elect, George Santos, also appears quite wrong about how and when his family fled persecution in Europe. Following in the footsteps of GOP great Marco Rubio, who also lied about his family's story, Santos's claim that his grandparents fled Nazi Germany seems impossible, as they'd been resident in Brazil since the 1920s.

The Forward:

Santos, who is 34, made history in November as the first openly gay Republican to win a House seat as a non-incumbent, beating the Democrat, Robert Zimmerman, by 8 percentage points. His district, which spans much of Nassau County and some of Queens, is about 20% Jewish.

"That he would actually lie about the Holocaust to try to promote himself, it's not offensive — it's sick and obscene," Zimmerman said Wednesday after revelations about Santos' heritage were published. "It's one of the most vile things you can do, to actually use one of the world's greatest tragedies, the death of 6 million, as a political stunt."

Zimmerman said he hopes the U.S. Department of Justice, the House Ethics Committee and other forces will intervene to keep Santos from serving in Congress, but he declined to say whether he himself would run again if there were a special election to fill the seat.

https://boingboing.net/2022/12/22/g...ed-about-his-family-fleeing-nazi-germany.html

Santos, who is 34, made history in November as the first openly gay Republican to win a House seat as a non-incumbent, beating the Democrat, Robert Zimmerman, by 8 percentage points. His district, which spans much of Nassau County and some of Queens, is about 20% Jewish.
"That he would actually lie about the Holocaust to try to promote himself, it's not offensive — it's sick and obscene," Zimmerman said Wednesday after revelations about Santos' heritage were published. "It's one of the most vile things you can do, to actually use one of the world's greatest tragedies, the death of 6 million, as a political stunt."
Zimmerman said he hopes the U.S. Department of Justice, the House Ethics Committee and other forces will intervene to keep Santos from serving in Congress, but he declined to say whether he himself would run again if there were a special election to fill the seat.

 

[ramonmercado]

County, State and Federal probes into Santos's actions.

A Republican congressman-elect is under investigation in New York after he admitted he lied about his education and work experience.

The Republican district attorney for Nassau County said she will look into the "numerous fabrications and inconsistencies" on George Santos's CV.
.
Allegations about discrepancies in his backstory were first made in a New York Times report last week.
Mr Santos is scheduled to be sworn in on 3 January. The newspaper published an investigation this month alleging Mr Santos - who was elected to Congress in the November midterm elections - had made several lies on his resume. Those included that he had graduated from Baruch College in New York and worked at high-profile Wall Street firms Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.

Mr Santos admitted earlier this week he had never worked for either firm directly and had lied on his CV about graduating from college, saying he was "embarrassed" that he had not. ...

In one tweet in July 2021, Mr Santos said "9/11 claimed my mother's life."

In another post months later, he wrote: "December 23rd this year marks 5 years I lost my best friend and mentor," referring to his mother.

Mr Santos's campaign website says his mother was in her office in the South Tower, the original 2 World Trade Center, on 11 September 2001, but survived and died of cancer several years later. ...

On Wednesday, Nassau County District Attorney Anne Donnelly said residents of Mr Santos's congressional district in New York "must have an honest and accountable representative in Congress".

No one "is above the law and if a crime was committed in this county, we will prosecute it".

Prosecutors with the US attorney's office in the Eastern District of New York have also launched a separate federal probe, a source told BBC's US partner CBS News, as well as other US media. CBS reported that they are looking into his finances and financial disclosures. ABC News reported it was not yet a "formal investigation".

US media outlets have also reported New York Attorney General Letitia James was "looking into" some of the issues raised about Mr Santos. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64113239

 

[Tunn11]

Isn't it similar to the people who claim medical qualifications and go on to carry out operations,etc.? Possibly some sort mental disorder that compels people to make out that they have important jobs, lives etc.

 

[IbisNibs]

His lying is on quite a gigantic and stupendously egregious scale.
Perhaps not requiring its own thread, but certainly worthy of an equally gigantic WTF reaction somewhere.
Hard to determine exactly where though.
Not in the Ridiculous Accidents, since the falsehoods were no accidents.
Not in the Strange Crimes thread, since, as yet, there is no alleged crime.
Perhaps in the Opps! The Silly Mistakes thread?
Except he got elected so he got what he was aiming for.

Maybe the silly mistakes have been committed by the people who didn't do any research into his past, like verify his work history, education records or property records. I think that merits a rather large WTF reaction as well.
I also think his way of fudging word meaning has pushed the envelop a bit. I mean, Jewish does not mean Jew-ish as in a la Jew or resembling a Jew. It is a fudge so mind-numbingly, teeth-grindingly linguistically wrong.

 

[Spookdaddy]

We have an appropriate thread: Pathological / Compulsive Lying [posts now moved here—Yith]

The Santos shenanigans do strike me as something quite special and outwith even the general unreliabilities of the public/political world - simply because the stories are so extravagant, and so utterly open to disproval; the playground bullshitter who never grew up style of reality - which no-one ever really gets away with, let alone those open to public scrutiny.

That said, in this case, I totally get why the mods might be edgy.

 

[IbisNibs]

Yes, this thread feels much more like home for this topic!