• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

People Who Just Disappear (Go Missing)

catseye said:
Our fields have been underwater for ages. It just drains and then it gets rained on again. Malton had to close loads of roads and set up pumps - I've nobody in York now so I don't get daily updates on the state of the river but I've never got over walking to the end of my daughter's road on Fishergate - and it being just river running past. And having seen videos of people standing at Scarborough and Whitby in the storms - too many people underestimate water and what it can do.
Click to expand...
The councils in this part of North Yorks are allowing developers to go ahead ad build on the floodplain now. It'll end in tears. No affordable housing, or only a token amount - so these are expensive houses being built - and us locals think it's aimed at people from outside these areas who will innocently buy a floodplain house built on fields where no local would ever buy. So it's quite cynical.
 
Stormkhan said:
Sensible advice ... to be added to the advice to characters in an Alien movie: "When being in the path of a rolling starship, run to either side of it and not in the same direction of travel."
Click to expand...
Like when the Baddie in a car is chasing the Goody down a street and you're shouting 'Goody, you prat, turn off!! Run down the alley where he can't follow!'
 
I've always thought that if it was necessary to build on floodplains then a major re-design of the buildings is needed. Build 'em on concrete 'stilts' and have the utilities buried underground. But that would be expensive so ...
Why not buy the land and establish a 'dry' houseboat community?
I'd never buy an ordinary house in such a place. No matter how many assurances that 'part of the development is flood-protection'. The building industry is forever promising things it has no intention of doing.
 
Its the same here.

And as you noted, its big fancy houses...not affordable buildings.

You would think such a market would be more careful. Its not like floodplains are hidden.
 
Ghost In The Machine said:
The councils in this part of North Yorks are allowing developers to go ahead ad build on the floodplain now. It'll end in tears. No affordable housing, or only a token amount - so these are expensive houses being built - and us locals think it's aimed at people from outside these areas who will innocently buy a floodplain house built on fields where no local would ever buy. So it's quite cynical.
Click to expand...
Also Pickering.

There's increasing levels of building across the Marishes, which were Lake Pickering before the area started to be drained. First places underwater when we have a lot of rain and the dykes go, and suddenly lots of very nice houses (and an entire Sheltered Housing complex) occupants find their gardens are underwater...
 
Earthly oddity said:
There seem to have been a considerable amount of reports in the UK of a number of women who have disappeared, only to be found deceased days later. Is this a reflection of media reporting on these cases more since the Nicola Bulley disappearance, or are women going missing in such awful circumstances increasing?
Click to expand...

escargot said:
We've discussed this before. It does of course bear further mention.
In a nutshell: some missing people are frankly more newsworthy than others.
Click to expand...

This is true. Although, among all the factors involved in this apparent selective interest is a sensitive technical issue which doesn’t get much attention, but which I suspect creates something of a minefield for the authorities.

This is an aspect that first struck me in the context of the case covered in the thread: Saima Ahmed: Mystery Disappearance & Death (Edinburgh; 2015 / 2016). I also suspect it was – at least initially - a factor in the Nicola Bulley case.

Quoting myself from the thread on the latter:

Reporting on cases where suicide is a factor is treated with sensitivity in the UK - both by those who do the reporting and those who provide them the information. For example, although the Independent Press Standards Organisation accepts that there is a potential public interest involved in reporting events related to suicides in certain cases, it also warns that there are very significant public health concerns involved. The IPSO recommendations are not a thing in isolation and clearly dovetail with attitudes in health and government authorities, and the police service. Even the most tabloid of tabloids clearly take this semi-embargo pretty seriously.

It’s worth reading the IPSO reasoning, which I suspect is pretty close to the attitudes of other official bodies:

A wide body of research evidence shows that media portrayals of suicide, including information published by newspapers and magazines, can influence suicidal behaviour and lead to imitative acts, particularly among vulnerable groups or young people. The research shows that overly detailed reporting does not just influence the choice of method of a suicide, but can lead to additional deaths which would otherwise not have occurred.
Click to expand...
…

(The actual IPSO guidance is here. Click the 'Read IPSO's guidance' tab for access to the PDF.)
Click to expand...

In the initial stages of a missing persons case - or one of sudden and unattended death with no obvious signs of third-party involvement - I suspect that the police will find themselves in a quandary in terms of the release of information: Drawing too much media attention too early may be contrary to accepted policy should the death prove to be suicide; but blindly following that policy when there’s still a chance that other parties could be involved could lead to potential evidence being overlooked. This must involve negotiating a pretty fine line, and any consequentially subdued reporting may be up for misinterpretation as simply a variation in interest.

It's important to point out that I’m thinking about such events in general – not the Nicola Bulley case, where the verdict of the coroner’s inquest was accidental drowning; although the perfect storm of media/social media interest and unbridled theorising – which included speculation in regard to suicide - may have unintentionally shifted the story into territory where the IPSO recommendations could equally apply, whatever the actual reality of the circumstances involved.

I suspect that in many of these cases, as @catseye earlier suggested, environmental issues are playing a big part. But thinking back to @Earthly oddity’s observation quoted at the beginning of this post: I don’t think anyone actually knows why the discussion and reporting of suicide seems to have a triggering effect on other vulnerable people – but it’s sobering to think that misplaced reporting and unbridled conjecture might have unintentionally exposed the vulnerable to the forces involved.
 
Here is a thorough look at the three people who died camping in the mountains, not far from here, and were discovered last July. I really like Nick, the youtuber here. He handles these stories with sensitivity and just plain sense, which seems to be getting more scarce by the day. He is one of the youtubers I help support through Patreon.

I heard about the discovery at the time, of course, but I was away from home a lot last year and never did get any real details. I know the area well, having lived in Gunnison and even now, it's not far away. The two sisters were attempting to live "off grid" in one of the worst places to try to spend a winter in a tent. They lived in Colorado Springs, 100 miles away as the crow flies, and Gunnison is notorious for being one of the coldest places in the country. Ms Popper and I made it two winters before coming to our senses and moving to a less hostile environment. We still have friends up there, and visit when we can. It's gorgeous country. It appears the sisters planned to plant a garden, a preposterous notion in that spot. The campground is right at 10,000 feet. I doubt they survived more than a couple of months. Camping around there in July can be amazingly frigid. It's the kind of place where it might stay below zero Fahrenheit for weeks. You might have a high of minus 3, at 1:00 pm with the sun shining.

 
Austin Popper said:
Here is a thorough look at the three people who died camping in the mountains, not far from here, and were discovered last July. I really like Nick, the youtuber here. He handles these stories with sensitivity and just plain sense, which seems to be getting more scarce by the day. He is one of the youtubers I help support through Patreon.

I heard about the discovery at the time, of course, but I was away from home a lot last year and never did get any real details. I know the area well, having lived in Gunnison and even now, it's not far away. The two sisters were attempting to live "off grid" in one of the worst places to try to spend a winter in a tent. They lived in Colorado Springs, 100 miles away as the crow flies, and Gunnison is notorious for being one of the coldest places in the country. Ms Popper and I made it two winters before coming to our senses and moving to a less hostile environment. We still have friends up there, and visit when we can. It's gorgeous country. It appears the sisters planned to plant a garden, a preposterous notion in that spot. The campground is right at 10,000 feet. I doubt they survived more than a couple of months. Camping around there in July can be amazingly frigid. It's the kind of place where it might stay below zero Fahrenheit for weeks. You might have a high of minus 3, at 1:00 pm with the sun shining.

Click to expand...
I just watched that and I also like his style and sensitivity towards how he relayed what is a very tragic story.

Their plans to live off grid didn't give a sense of being well thought out in terms of 'what if'.
 
Austin Popper said:
Here is a thorough look at the three people who died camping in the mountains, not far from here, and were discovered last July. I really like Nick, the youtuber here. He handles these stories with sensitivity and just plain sense, which seems to be getting more scarce by the day. He is one of the youtubers I help support through Patreon.

I heard about the discovery at the time, of course, but I was away from home a lot last year and never did get any real details. I know the area well, having lived in Gunnison and even now, it's not far away. The two sisters were attempting to live "off grid" in one of the worst places to try to spend a winter in a tent. They lived in Colorado Springs, 100 miles away as the crow flies, and Gunnison is notorious for being one of the coldest places in the country. Ms Popper and I made it two winters before coming to our senses and moving to a less hostile environment. We still have friends up there, and visit when we can. It's gorgeous country. It appears the sisters planned to plant a garden, a preposterous notion in that spot. The campground is right at 10,000 feet. I doubt they survived more than a couple of months. Camping around there in July can be amazingly frigid. It's the kind of place where it might stay below zero Fahrenheit for weeks. You might have a high of minus 3, at 1:00 pm with the sun shining.

Click to expand...
A tragic case. It astonishes me that there are still people like this who don't do any research before living in a harsh environment.
 
Mythopoeika said:
A tragic case. It astonishes me that there are still people like this who don't do any research before living in a harsh environment.
Click to expand...
It can be a case of mental illness or general overenthusiasm. Where one person thinks 'wouldn't this be a GREAT idea?' and pulls other people along with them just with their force of personality. By the time it becomes apparent that this was hypermania or psychosis, it's too late.
 
If you want to pursue a certain lifestyle then fine.
Do deeper damn research than watching You Tube or other social media.
The ones that propose it's easy ARE USING SOCIAL MEDIA, to get 'clout', responses, ego-masturbation, whatever.
If you die because you were stupid enough to take an influencers advice then ... so be it. Very sad for your family.
 
I'm still trying to get my head around someone who grew up in Colorado thinking that was a reasonable place to camp for the winter. I probably know a few people who could pull that off, but that's because I know some crazy people with crazy skills, who do other crazy things and live to tell about it. (They freely admit to being crazy.) They would take a much different approach, of course, and anyone who might remotely be able to survive such an ordeal would have enough sense to not consider trying.

Colorado Springs has become something of a big city, and there are many people there who don't know the first thing about camping. Instead of watching stupid asshole youtubers, the girls would have done well to learn something about surviving in the woods. First clue: Go south.
 
Austin Popper said:
I'm still trying to get my head around someone who grew up in Colorado thinking that was a reasonable place to camp for the winter. I probably know a few people who could pull that off, but that's because I know some crazy people with crazy skills, who do other crazy things and live to tell about it. (They freely admit to being crazy.) They would take a much different approach, of course, and anyone who might remotely be able to survive such an ordeal would have enough sense to not consider trying.

Colorado Springs has become something of a big city, and there are many people there who don't know the first thing about camping. Instead of watching stupid asshole youtubers, the girls would have done well to learn something about surviving in the woods. First clue: Go south.
Click to expand...
Also - they were camping at a high elevation (10,000 feet) - likely to be colder.
What really did for them was that water-borne parasite. There are water filters, sterilisation methods and other tech available for rendering water safe. If only they'd done more planning and spent more money. :(
 
Mythopoeika said:
Also - they were camping at a high elevation (10,000 feet) - likely to be colder.
What really did for them was that water-borne parasite. There are water filters, sterilisation methods and other tech available for rendering water safe. If only they'd done more planning and spent more money. :(
Click to expand...
The cold would very likely have done for them anyway, together with malnutrition.
 
Spookdaddy said:
er my first working trip to Dublin I went to visit my my maternal grandparents. My grandmother – then very ill and displaying symptoms of dementia - began to speak of her childhood there. I will never forget the look on my grandad’s face. She had never spoken of her past – not one iota of information had ever passed her lips – and I recall my granddad and I sitting very still and silent, as if a rare bird had entered the room,
Click to expand...
Have you posted more about this account? Pardon for being a nosy parker, but I've an "unnamed shame" in my family tree that we were never able to learn before all of them took it to their graves. If you haven't, you don't have to (of course!) just wondering if there was another post and my apologies if I'm being too nosy.
Spookdaddy said:
On Chapel Sands is a book about a mystery deep within her mother’s childhood: her kidnapping from a Lincolnshire beach in 1929 and the five day disappearance and fifty year void of information that followed her reappearance.
Click to expand...
Ooo, just looked at reviews, looks fantastic. Did you end up reading it?
 
Aydee_Aitchdee said:
Have you posted more about this account? Pardon for being a nosy parker, but I've an "unnamed shame" in my family tree that we were never able to learn before all of them took it to their graves. If you haven't, you don't have to (of course!) just wondering if there was another post and my apologies if I'm being too nosy...
Click to expand...

No problem at all. In the months after that original post I spent quite some time looking into that part of our family history - with, I'll admit, half an eye on an Irish passport. Illegitimacy, illiteracy, itinerancy, the shadow of the dreaded Laundries - it all got quite opaque and complicated, and aside from my original point that sudden absence could be the result of nothing more mysterious than a deliberate reaction to domestic necessity, I think too much detail might take this thread of course. I'll find a more appropriate place (which I think there is) and post there some time soon.

...On Chapel Sands by Laura Cumming...
Click to expand...

...Ooo, just looked at reviews, looks fantastic. Did you end up reading it?
Click to expand...

Yup - a worthwhile read. I wrote above 'nothing more mysterious than a deliberate reaction to domestic necessity' - but of course, such actions could and did result in mystery for those affected, and those who came afterwards. (Not least - for those in the latter category - because many of the motives for the actions involved have become utterly irrelevant in the modern age). A lot of the more negative reviews appear to be based on the reader's assumption that they were going to be reading some sort of Miss Marplesque tale of murder and village intrigue - but it's more a story based on our social history, than it is an Agatha Christie. I suspect that maybe some who came to the book were over invested in the True Crime genre - and this is not really that; although, in it's way, I don't think that makes it any less mysterious.

Decent review here.
 
Spookdaddy said:
that sudden absence could be the result of nothing more mysterious than a deliberate reaction to domestic necessity,
Click to expand...

THAT'S IT! I'VE HAD IT WITH YOU LOT! I AM OUT OF HERE

That sort of thing? I can well imagine. If you'd like to share and don't want to throw it on a thread, feel free to DM me.

Spookdaddy said:
I suspect that maybe some who came to the book were over invested in the True Crime genre - and this is not really that; although, in it's way, I don't think that makes it any less mysterious.

Decent review here.
Click to expand...
I actually read that article when I looked up the book (along with reviews on goodreads, the top ones were all good) and it got me interested. My first thought was this was a suspenseful sort of tale, but I didn't get the feeling it was one of those terror filled knife's edge sort of books. That's what interested me :D
 
You've only got to read a few posts on Mumsnet to see the reality of people walking out on partners or families, never to be in touch again. Nothing mysterious about it, just an end-of-tether circumstance, and you don't have to move very far before social circles are completely separate too. A minor name change for social media purposes, and you have, in effect, vanished. Look at all the mothers trying to get CSM out of absent fathers (and sometimes the other way around) to see how easy it is for someone to 'disappear' if they want to.
 
I can't recall for definite in which book it might have been - most probably Rupert Everett's marvellous Vanished Years - but there was a brief account of one very well-to-do father and husband who lined his wife and children up in the hall, shook hands with each of them, said goodbye and then got into his car and disappeared forever from their lives.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top