Prof. Brian Cox On Ghosts

Tried to watch one of his tv shows. What is it with the soft voice as he stares at you through the camera and then the long uncomfortable pause…? Is he trying to be the male Nigella…?

As others have alrwady said, he has become a BBC luvvie and unfortunately his pronouncements attract a lot of media attention. Serious scientists, meanwhile, publish their research in scientific journals and not the BBC website or Wired. Thankfully, many such serious scientists have refuted his assertion that we are the only intelligent life in our galaxy* and continue to look, listen and theorise.

* https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...exist-galaxy-far-far-away-says-Brian-Cox.html

*https://www.theguardian.com/science...axy-of-meaning-warns-brian-cox-ahead-of-cop26
 
I don't think Brian Cox is a good ambassador for science, my impression of him is that he's disrespectful and arrogant. He's like some religious convert who thinks he's found wisdom and that science has all the answers to everything and anyone who believes in the paranormal is naive or stupid. I don't know what people see in him personally. Yes and he's got an annoying face too!
 
I don't think Brian Cox is a good ambassador for science, my impression of him is that he's disrespectful and arrogant. He's like some religious convert who thinks he's found wisdom and that science has all the answers to everything and anyone who believes in the paranormal is naive or stupid. I don't know what people see in him personally. Yes and he's got an annoying face too!
Put it better than me.

Hope the SETI team have his face on their dartboard....
 
The point about ghosts not lasting long if they were just pure energy - what about the classic ghost that started as a woman in a red dress, then became a woman in a pink dress, then a woman in a white dress, then just the sound of footsteps. Doesn't that suggest energy dissipating over time?

I don't mind Brian Cox per se - when my friend's husband couldn't make it to his Cosmology tour I was happy to step in and use the ticket - but I wince at the assertion that anybody of a scientific mind can't believe in ghosts. That's like saying anybody of a scientific mind can't believe in God, and I know some very respectable scientists who do.
 
... Thankfully, many such serious scientists have refuted his assertion that we are the only intelligent life in our galaxy* and continue to look, listen and theorise...

This is it for me. IMHO scientific dogma is just as bad (if not more harmful) than religious dogma, or indeed any other type of dogma. I wouldn't expect any serious scientist to believe any and all theories out there (afterall occam's razor has it's place) but it is important to keep an open mind. I say this as someone who considers themselves a sceptic, however sometimes you find that sceptical explanations for paranormal events are just as unlikely and inadequate as far fetched ones.
 
This is it for me. IMHO scientific dogma is just as bad (if not more harmful) than religious dogma, or indeed any other type of dogma. I wouldn't expect any serious scientist to believe any and all theories out there (afterall occam's razor has it's place) but it is important to keep an open mind. I say this as someone who considers themselves a sceptic, however sometimes you find that sceptical explanations for paranormal events are just as unlikely and inadequate as far fetched ones.
As it happens I agree with Brian Cox about intelligent life. The difference is I'm quite happy to be proved wrong, because what I have is called an 'Opinion'. It's disturbing that a so-called scientist can't tell the difference between an opinion and fact.

I also agree very much with your last sentence. sometimes the 'rational' explanations for odd occurrences are wildly more irrational than the occurrence itself.
 
As it happens I agree with Brian Cox about intelligent life. The difference is I'm quite happy to be proved wrong, because what I have is called an 'Opinion'. It's disturbing that a so-called scientist can't tell the difference between an opinion and fact.

I also agree very much with your last sentence. sometimes the 'rational' explanations for odd occurrences are wildly more irrational than the occurrence itself.
Well of the estimated 300 million exoplanets in our own universe that some scientists believe may be suitable for life, let's hope there is only one Brian Cox

https://www.inverse.com/science/how-many-planets-host-life
 
He must have cracked eternal youth as at 55 he annoyingly still looks 19
:omr:
 
Those long, smouldering shots of Our Brian straddling the dune tops (and don't forget the low perspective camera angle which emphasises his physique) gazing into the aether with wistful eyes are definitely an attempt to let's make pop science sexy for the ladies: which is patronising enough as it is, without the indulgent, carousel camera-circling of his carved apple cheekbones/perpetual maniacal grin.
 
Flammarion did that, with his `Astronomy for Women`, didnt he?

(IMHO, a very romantic book).
 
My mate hates 'rubber face' as he calls him. I can't remember the reasons, but something about ''driving around in a Bentley like a twat'' springs to mind. I'll ask him his reasons when I get chance.
Here he is being invited by a dealership tp test drive a Rolls-Royce:

http://www.nickdawe.co.uk/stargazing-with-professor-brian-cox-2

Surely not another celebrity who lectures us on climate change (https://www.theguardian.com/science...axy-of-meaning-warns-brian-cox-ahead-of-cop26) but drives a huge gas guzzler...?
 
Ben Miller on an episode of QI did a much better job of explaining the Higgs boson in about two minutes than anyone else on TV. Aside from one pop science show he tends to stick to acting.

The Sky at Night team are the best presenters on astronomical issues. I wondered how they would cope when Patrick Moore died but actually IMO they’ve done well. Pete Lawrence is a knowledgeable observer and presenter, Maggie Aderin- Pocock is knowledgeable and engagingly enthusiastic and Chris Lintott has developed a dryly humorous style. They all have relevant degrees and avoid pronouncing on subjects about which they know nothing.

But the BBC would probably get rid of Sky at Night if it could and without being rude none of the presenters have the visual image that Brian Cox supposedly has (Can’t see it myself) So he gets dragged out to present all sorts and takes the money. But I have to agree the last series was all computer imagery crap. The big bang being a computer simulated explosion seen from a distance with sound effects; after all it’s called a bang innit?

Now Cox has got to this point I think he is being indulged in the sort of tripe he is producing for TV and then being reported on every time he ventures an opinion on anything vaguely “scientific”.

He can believe what he likes, after all Tracey from facebook is a hairdresser and thinks Mullets stop you being abducted by aliens.
 
I'd posit Jim Al-Khalili as the least patronising and most likeable presenter of 'accessible' science
Some of us remember Dr Magnus Pyke OBE FRSE FRIC. He was a chemist by profession, but presented entertainingly on a range of scientific subjects. He was easily parodied by impressionists, but behind the arm waving eccentric screen persona was a likeable and knowledgeable chap who was keen to engage people in science.
 
I thought it might be an idea to add here that my only exposure to 'accessible science' via the BBC has been on fairly rare occasions whilst visiting my mother. I can't really comment on either Brian Cox or Jim A, except to say that JA's presenting style (or how the camera behaved in his presence!) felt much less patronising than BC's.

Just having a gentle poke at the BBC.
 
Some of us remember Dr Magnus Pyke OBE FRSE FRIC. He was a chemist by profession, but presented entertainingly on a range of scientific subjects. He was easily parodied by impressionists, but behind the arm waving eccentric screen persona was a likeable and knowledgeable chap who was keen to engage people in science.
David Bellamy was another, but he made the mistake of questioning "global warming" as it then was. Also Eric Laithwaite who talked about anti gravity in relation to gyroscopic experiments. So it seems there are some things it isn't wise to talk about.

I remember Carl Sagan's cosmos on British TV being quite innovative visually; but sadly he died young. Neil de Grasse Tyson seems to be on US TV a lot but I haven't seen much of him over here. I don't remember any of them making any claims about subjects out of their comfort zones though.

David Attenborough seems to have joined the climate change lobby, (on the side that won't cost him his career on the BBC) although it can be argued that that is an area he has some knowledge about. He even wrote a small book for children about cryptids "Fabulous Animals".

The problem seems to be celebrity. Nowadays if you are a celebrity presenter with any form of qualification rather than the "present anything" brigade you are probably going to asked for an opinion on anything from yetis to dark matter. I've noticed that some science writers now describe themselves as "communicators".
 
I embrace the idea of scientifically-inclined people having a good open-minded think about some of the phenomena that seemingly persist. If a few of them put their thinking caps on and point their large hadrons (I typed that very carefully) at things such as ghosts, UAPs and Bigfoot maybe they will get to prove - or disprove - their existence once and for all. Go for it, boffins of the world!
 
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I embrace the idea of scientifically-inclined people having a good open-minded think about some of the phenomena that seemingly persist. If a few of them put their thinking caps on and point their large hadrons (I typed that very carefully) at things such as ghosts, UAPs and Bigfoot maybe they will get to prove - or disprove - their exstence once and for all. Go for it, boffins of the world!
I did read it as large hairdo’s mind
 
I embrace the idea of scientifically-inclined people having a good open-minded think about some of the phenomena that seemingly persist. If a few of them put their thinking caps on and point their large hadrons (I typed that very carefully) at things such as ghosts, UAPs and Bigfoot maybe they will get to prove - or disprove - their exstence once and for all. Go for it, boffins of the world!
Yes, science should take a Fortean outlook. Why is this happening or being reported? Let's find out why,and perhaps accept that not everything can be duplicated under the same conditions.
Just proves not everyone on this forum has their mind in the gutter. Not all the time, anyway.
My mind may be in the gutter but my arse is pointed at the stars. :)
 
let's hope there is only one Brian Cox
Brian-Cox.jpg
 
What if it turns out that Brian Cox is a ghost?


Well I don't believe he is, but to dismiss ghosts as not existing is not a scientific norm.

Fra better and honest to admit there is a mass of anecdote, which in itself points to something worth investigating.

If ghosts do not exist, then what causes so much attention on them?



* I believe they do exist, but that the overwhelming majority of sightings are of something else.
 
Well, honestly, I’m shocked! I didn’t know Brian Cox (physicist) rubbed so many people up the wrong way! But we love Brian Cox the actor? - well I do anyway, he’s certainly brilliant in Succession. I actually really like Brian the physicist. I never got a feeling of him being condescending, I just felt he was trying to make science less confusing and more palatable, encourage enthusiasm even, in those who’d normally dismiss it as boring or just not their thing. However I don’t like the way he outright dismisses ghosts, and it does sound like he dismisses intelligent life on other planets?! Hmm ok, I’m not liking him quite as much, especially if he’s lecturing us about climate change and driving around in gas guzzling beasts...

Seriously now, I started this thread as I’ve been wavering in these last few years between being a believer in ghosts, the afterlife, God, something after death - whatever it may be, and worrying my head off that there’s just nothing. I’ve just been feeling very confused, where once I was so certain. Then to read Prof. Cox’s views on ghosts, well I think I just needed to hear alternative views and I know you guys know what you’re on with and give an intelligent argument! I genuinely appreciate all your replies, thank you
 
Seriously now, I started this thread as I’ve been wavering in these last few years between being a believer in ghosts, the afterlife, God, something after death - whatever it may be, and worrying my head off that there’s just nothing. I’ve just been feeling very confused, where once I was so certain. Then to read Prof. Cox’s views on ghosts, well I think I just needed to hear alternative views and I know you guys know what you’re on with and give an intelligent argument! I genuinely appreciate all your replies, thank you

As the thread started with a reference to Prof. Brian Cox's pronouncement that ghosts don't exist, relying on his physics background to reach this conclusion...

Many people, from many cultures, over thousands of years, have believed in ghosts of one sort or another. In many cases, the belief has been so strong that it has led to societal behaviour that most of us would consider extreme or bizarre, designed to ward off or propitiate the ghosts.

For comparison (Spoiler): Santa Claus does not exist in a literal sense. However, the idea of Santa directly affects the behaviour of children, so Santa Claus is a real phenomenon.


In the modern western world, our concept of the ghost has been influenced by the common tropes of fiction. Just as the vampire or werewolf now seem to fit a standard formula, the ghost is typically portrayed as haunting a place where they suffered or died, and often seeking either revenge or some other form of release.

Bram Stoker's Dracula was in many ways different from the vampires of folklore and legend, and was equally different from the suave and handsome Count of many later adaptations. The werewolf of folklore and legend was not governed by the full moon or only vulnerable to the silver bullet as it is always portrayed now. Zombies in every zombie apocalypse film share many characteristics that were not associated with the zombie of Haitian voodoo. And similarly, the ghosts of folklore were very different from the ghosts of modern fiction.


So if you want to decide whether you believe in ghosts, your first question perhaps should be, "What do I mean by a ghost?"

Is "a ghost" one phenomenon, or are there several phenomena, all given the same general name?

For example, just three of the many common concepts of the ghosts (I hesitate to dignify them with the name of "theories") are:
  • The soul of a dead person, remaining on Earth, and somehow still able to act purposefully.
  • The so-called "stone tape theory": the idea that stones, or stone buildings, can somehow record and replay the images or sounds of events in a manner that is analogous to old-style magnetic tape.
  • Some form of repeated shared hallucination, in which some physical aspect of a location (e.g. background ultrasound) triggers similar reactions in different people on different occasions.

Plan A: You could consider which concept of the ghost requires you to make the smallest number of "assumptions" that are not yet supported by scientific orthodoxy, and which one you consider to be most plausible or least implausible. That would give you a subjective reason to believe or not believe.

Plan B: Alternatively, you could consider the various possible explanations from the point of view of what sort of evidence would support or disprove them, and consider what experiments could be done to test and refine the hypothesis. (A logical positivist would argue that if no such experiment could be conceived, even in principle, then the question would be meaningless.)

Of course, in real life, most of us do not have the expertise or the facilities to set up such experiments, and we know that funding for formal scientific research into the subject will never be available in respectable academia. This is why most people resort to Plan A.


Personally, I do not believe in ghosts — there are too many logical inconsistencies in every explanation I have heard — but I acknowledge that many sincere people have reported unexplained experiences that they have interpreted as ghosts.
 
Excellent post, thank you
 
As the thread started with a reference to Prof. Brian Cox's pronouncement that ghosts don't exist, relying on his physics background to reach this conclusion...

Many people, from many cultures, over thousands of years, have believed in ghosts of one sort or another. In many cases, the belief has been so strong that it has led to societal behaviour that most of us would consider extreme or bizarre, designed to ward off or propitiate the ghosts.

For comparison (Spoiler): Santa Claus does not exist in a literal sense. However, the idea of Santa directly affects the behaviour of children, so Santa Claus is a real phenomenon.


In the modern western world, our concept of the ghost has been influenced by the common tropes of fiction. Just as the vampire or werewolf now seem to fit a standard formula, the ghost is typically portrayed as haunting a place where they suffered or died, and often seeking either revenge or some other form of release.

Bram Stoker's Dracula was in many ways different from the vampires of folklore and legend, and was equally different from the suave and handsome Count of many later adaptations. The werewolf of folklore and legend was not governed by the full moon or only vulnerable to the silver bullet as it is always portrayed now. Zombies in every zombie apocalypse film share many characteristics that were not associated with the zombie of Haitian voodoo. And similarly, the ghosts of folklore were very different from the ghosts of modern fiction.


So if you want to decide whether you believe in ghosts, your first question perhaps should be, "What do I mean by a ghost?"

Is "a ghost" one phenomenon, or are there several phenomena, all given the same general name?

For example, just three of the many common concepts of the ghosts (I hesitate to dignify them with the name of "theories") are:
  • The soul of a dead person, remaining on Earth, and somehow still able to act purposefully.
  • The so-called "stone tape theory": the idea that stones, or stone buildings, can somehow record and replay the images or sounds of events in a manner that is analogous to old-style magnetic tape.
  • Some form of repeated shared hallucination, in which some physical aspect of a location (e.g. background ultrasound) triggers similar reactions in different people on different occasions.

Plan A: You could consider which concept of the ghost requires you to make the smallest number of "assumptions" that are not yet supported by scientific orthodoxy, and which one you consider to be most plausible or least implausible. That would give you a subjective reason to believe or not believe.

Plan B: Alternatively, you could consider the various possible explanations from the point of view of what sort of evidence would support or disprove them, and consider what experiments could be done to test and refine the hypothesis. (A logical positivist would argue that if no such experiment could be conceived, even in principle, then the question would be meaningless.)

Of course, in real life, most of us do not have the expertise or the facilities to set up such experiments, and we know that funding for formal scientific research into the subject will never be available in respectable academia. This is why most people resort to Plan A.


Personally, I do not believe in ghosts — there are too many logical inconsistencies in every explanation I have heard — but I acknowledge that many sincere people have reported unexplained experiences that they have interpreted as ghosts.
Plan C: You turn up at an allegedly haunted location with a film crew equipped with night vision cameras, a 'psychic' who talks to the dead via a "little brown boy" from Africa and a borderline-hysterical woman....
 
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