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The remains of a young Roman man who dressed as a woman and probably castrated himself show a previously unknown side of Britain's ancient history, according to archaeologists.

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Ancient Tranvestite Unearthed in UK

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20020521/od_nm/roman_dc_1

Transvestite Ancient Roman Unearthed in Britain
Tue May 21, 9:39 AM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - The remains of a young Roman man who dressed as a woman and probably castrated himself show a previously unknown side of Britain's ancient history, archaeologists said Tuesday.

Excavations at Catterick, northern England, unearthed the skeleton of a fourth century man buried wearing a jet necklace and bracelet, a shale armlet and a bronze anklet.

"He is the only man wearing this array of jewelry who has ever been found from a late Roman cemetery in Britain," Dr. Pete Wilson, senior archaeologist at English Heritage told Reuters.

"In life he would have been regarded as a transvestite and was probably a gallus -- one of the followers of the goddess Cybele who castrated themselves in her honor."

Although the skeleton was discovered in 1981, it took nearly 20 years for archeologists to work out the puzzle of a male body adorned with female jewelry.

The mother-Earth goddess Cybele was worshipped in noisy public festivals and would-be priests castrated themselves using special ornamented clamps.

Post-castration, Cybele's priests wore jewelry, highly colored female robes and turbans or tiaras complemented by female hair styles.
 
Urgh, that's really not what I needed to read first thing in the morning :cross eye
 
The article lied when it said that this is a previously unknown part of ancient history as there is evidence of cross dressing men from the pagan Anglo Saxon period , possibly priests. Tactitus mentions a Germanic tribe whose priests took on some of the dress of women possibly to indicate their liminal status. Like shamans they may represent someone who walked the borders of our world and the other world , so they were not men nor women but someone inbetween. Castrating also occurred in later Anglo Saxon times as eunuchs were banned from churches , maybe looking back at the man-womans role in the pagan religion that the church wanted to stamp out. Part of my dissertation was concerning the man-woman or berdache in pagan anglo saxon times. I think the native Americans also practised it but will deny it under the stigma that christianity imposed upon the role. Its just a pity I didnt see the article before I handed my work in , an earlier parallel would have been good:)
 
There is i understand a long tradition of Tv's in India too.. I wonder what that Roman "clamp" looked like...how do they know?
 
There was a picture of the clamp in the Daily Mail today (see, it does have one or two good points!)

It looked like a rather vicious nutcracker (well, that's exactly what it was, I suppose).

Carole
 
Can u imagine the scene two crusty archeologists carefully scrapeing away layers of mud... What is this do u think?...looks like a walnut carcker to me...... no its got somthing inside it!....my god Caruthers this must never be shown to the public!... Too late i just faxed a pic to the Daily Mail...........
 
I'd like to see the headline if the Sun covered the story.

Carole
 
Just goes to show what a balls up (sorry) xtianity has made of the whole gay/transgender thing. They had a role in society and religion then, just as they should do.
 
So you reckon every church/mosque should have its resident eunuch, then, Beak? :p

It would certainly make a change from offering to do the flowers!

Carole
 
Sorry, it's the Rioja speaking, not me!

Carole
 
I did flick over to some program about England last week. They mentioned at that time any self-respecting area had a resident eunuch :)

The filipins has something they call a fififin or so. A sort of third sex. It is when a man is born who is very feminine and/or likes to dress up as woman. Seen as being fairly natural.
 
Good Lord, compared to some of the old trannies I've seen
trolling around Canal Street, this Roman fella sounds like a
chicken!

Incidentally, for those with very strong stomachs, there are
some close-up photos on the Web of modern self-castrates.
They also use a clamp - called I think a Barduzzi Clamp? - to
perform the deed. I doubt if these blokes have ever heard of
Cybele, it appears to be a curious sexual fetish! :eek!!!!:

Also the pages of Dostoyevsky are haunted by the self-castrated
Christian fanatics who were fairly numerous in those heady
days before the Revolution.
 
The Independant had quite a big story. Didn't mention the clamps but did say that it was done using flint blades on a festival called "the day of blood"

They also drew a number of parallels between the cult and Xtianity. I'm just gooling to see if they've archived the story

S*d it no.
 
By the way, Beak, what kind of bird are you? I passed my local pet shop today on the way to the offy, and a man was going in with a bird in a cage that looked just like your avatar!

I don't know if he was taking it back to complain, but at least it wasn't a deceased Norwegian Blue!
 
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That's so sad Rynner :( . My avatar's a love bird, and even more than other psitacines, should be kept in pairs. Perhaps that's why he was bringing it back. This may have nothing to do with transvestisism, but what the hey. I don't think any birds should be kept in cages, only aviaries if they have to be kept anywhere, but preferably in the wild where they came from. :( :(
 
Let's face it, if pets liked to be where they are, you wouldn't need to put them in cages.
 
beakboo said:
My avatar's a love bird, and even more than other psitacines, should be kept in pairs. Perhaps that's why he was bringing it back. This may have nothing to do with transvestisism, but what the hey. I don't think any birds should be kept in cages, only aviaries if they have to be kept anywhere, but preferably in the wild where they came from. :( :(

a peach faced love bird.... (ur avitar i mean) yes the live well together but its ahrd to tell the sexes apart and they are nasty if confined with other birds, or one of the same sex...
 
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Re: Ancient Tranvestite Unearthed in UK

This is the bit I find hard to believe about the article:
Ogopogo said:
Although the skeleton was discovered in 1981, it took nearly 20 years for archeologists to work out the puzzle of a male body adorned with female jewelry.

I mean, the guy was a Roman, wearing women's jewelry, and it took them 20 years to work out what was going on?

As to the question of churches having "eunuchs", many did until fairly late in the 19th century. Castrati were popular for church music due to some statement by St Paul (I think, or possibly Peter) recommending that women remain silent in church. This led to a market for men with the range of a soprano (a role now performed by pre-pubescent boys).

(This came up on _The Radio National Quiz_ yesterday. The topic was Opera.)
 
Originally posted by rynner
You mean you use it to find your way about?

Personally, I consider it a divining rod of sorts.

Whoops! Did I say rod?
 
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Wasn't this in the News Stories forum? Anyways I'm mega-skeptical about this. Many modern men wear jewellery - gold and silver neckchains, bracelets, rings and even ear and body rings. Far from being cross-dressers they more often than not wear the jewellery to appear MORE macho. So how the hell can archaeologists jump to the conclusion that because a man is wearing jewellery he must therefore have been a cross-dresser and probably castrated himself? If modern trends are anything to go by men can be as easily influenced by fashion as women. I can only assume that archaeologists live in a curious antiquated world of their own. :confused: :confused:
 
Bravo

whyteowl and beakboo are both right.

Thinking this is any new discovery is ignorance, and it's a horror what xtianity has done to people.
 
Roman capsule to reveal secrets
A mystery Roman capsule unearthed at an archaeological dig in the heart of London is to be opened on Monday.
The 2,000-year-old sealed tin canister was discovered by a team of archaeologists who have been excavating the site in Southwark, just south of the Thames, for the past year.

It is unclear what is inside, but recent discoveries at the site have included a life-size bronze foot.

The capsule measures about 5.8cm in circumference and is plainly decorated.

"We just don't know what's in there," said Gary Brown, managing director of Preconstruct Archaeology, the company behind the dig.

"This box is still sealed, and what's inside is more than 2,000 years old.

"It could be nothing, or it could be the remains of a sacrifice. We'll have to wait and see."

The site is believed to be the remains of a Roman temple complex dating from around the time of the birth of Jesus Christ.

As well as the bronze foot, an ancient plaque bearing the oldest known naming of London was recently unveiled.

Experts said the plaque appeared to refer to a champagne importer and newspapers said it could be viewed as London's earliest known advert.

The capsule will go on immediate display at the Museum of London, along with all the other finds.

Excavation work has now come to an end at the site, which itself will not be preserved.

The slice of prime London real estate has been earmarked for a housing development with hundreds of homes to be built.
 
Hi Rynner,

First thing I heard about this was on the news this morning.

It's exciting stuff. I REALLY hope there's some gob-smacking artifacts inside (a wrist watch would be great).
 
Experts said the plaque appeared to refer to a champagne importer and newspapers said it could be viewed as London's earliest known advert.
Must have been a time traveller! :p
 
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"Welcome to Peter Cæruleus! This week we're going to show you how to make a hypocaust for your doll's villa, and later Noakius will be burying our time capsule..."
 
2,000-year-old Roman ointment revealed
Press Association
Monday July 28, 2003 12:28 PM
A mystery Roman capsule unearthed at an archaeological dig in the heart of London was opened to reveal a pot of 2,000-year-old cream.
The cream, or ointment, complete with finger marks, was discovered in a sealed tin canister at a remarkable Roman temple complex in Southwark.
The round, metal box has a diameter of 6cm and is 5cm high. It was taken from a Roman drain and appears to have been deliberately hidden, 2,000 years ago.
It was opened before the nation's media at the Museum of London by Museum conservator Liz Barham, who said: "It seems to be very much like an ointment, it's got finger marks in the lid.
"If this is a sealed Roman container, those are Roman finger marks."
© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2003, All Rights Reserved.
 
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