Should We Try To Rescue Ghosts? Are There Morals For Ghost Hunting?

[JimELUCIER]

This is a topic that's been on my mind for decades.
I was just watching an episode of Kindred Spirits tonight, when the subject of Ghost Rescue came to mind.
If ghost hunters find that there maybe a child haunting a location, should the ghost hunters, or the owners of the location try to see if they can rescue the child?

My personal opinion would be 'yes'.
I feel that if it really is a child, then that child does not have the faculties to discern for itself, at that age, the consequences of its choose to stay, or leave.
Of course we can argue freedom of choice, but would a child fully comprehend that choice?

There is the famous haunting of The Conjuring House, where a spirit keeps pulling a book off the shelf in the library room. The book is called "Moral Relativity.". Is the spirit, or the spirits trying to ask us to review our morals when we do ghost searching? Should we be questioning our motives? Are we using the ghosts for entertainment, for pleasure, and for profit?

There is yet another question we should be asking.
Should we be allowing haunted locations to remain intact, or should we be destroying, old, abandoned, run down, haunted factories, hospitals, and houses? Where is our moral compass on this? Are we inadvertently creating too many portals, and gateways in all of this? I would love your comments , or questions.
Maybe we can find solutions to these questions together.

Thank you.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

A good question, but which is dependent on precisely how we define a ghost.
If ghosts really are the lingering post-mortum manifestations of people who are perhaps unaware that they have died and who are feeling confused and lost, then of course helping them to move on, is the compassionate thing to do.
If, however, a ghost is merely some sort of time-slip, then they are still alive in their time.
Finally, if a ghost is nothing more than a "Stone Tape" replay, then there is no more consciousness involved than in erasing an old video tape.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Unless it is a particularly malevolent poltergeist then I say leave well alone. What a boring planet it would be without ghosts lurking on our dark and lonely roads and creaky old houses (etc.). However, I don't actually believe these self-proclaimed Mediums can "move on" ghosts to "the next level" or whatever so I don't lose any sleep over it. As regards the Church and exorcisms, I am more openminded in terms of said malevolent poltergeists as I have indirectly come across two cases in my own experience that appear to have been successful.

 

[SimonBurchell]

Unless it is a particularly malevolent poltergeist then I say leave well alone. What a boring planet it would be without ghosts lurking on our dark and lonely roads and creaky old houses (etc.). However, I don't actually believe these self-proclaimed Mediums can "move on" ghosts to "the next level" or whatever so I don't lose any sleep over it. As regards the Church and exorcisms, I am more openminded in terms of said malevolent poltergeists as I have indirectly come across two cases in my own experience that appear to have been successful.

Obscure parts of various church denominations have a lot of history and experience in dealing with such things, but I imagine anything more than a simple blessing would have to be referred up the chain and risk being lost in ecclesiastical bureaucracy.

 

[Xanatic*]

In the Ghostbusters film, they also captured and locked up ghosts, with no trial or hearing. One of them was just minding her own business in a library but because people were afraid of her, she was captured. Should we really allow such cruel and unusual punishments?

 

[Ascalon]

The proposal makes so many assumptions, the basis of which makes any reasoning meaningless, IMHO.

 

[Stormkhan]

This assumes that ghosts are all one 'thing'. What about 'stone tape' examples - who needs rescuing?

 

[Kondoru]

I know cases where a haunted location has upped the sale price.

`We had a ghost but we exorcised it` Doesnt have the same saleability.

 

[catseye]

It's an interesting hypothetical conundrum.

But I'd suppose that, in order for us to become embroiled in an argument about whether it is ethical to 'rescue' ghosts, we'd first have to have another argument about the sentience of ghosts and their ability to have agency. Are we treating these ghosts like animals, or like humans who, for some reason, have no ability to make their own decisions? And what if these ghosts have been sentenced to haunt in order to repent over past sins?

Can of worms, I tell you.

 

[Frideswide]

The proposal makes so many assumptions, the basis of which makes any reasoning meaningless, IMHO.

I took it as a succinct conversation starter?

 

[Sabresonic]

It's an interesting hypothetical conundrum.

But I'd suppose that, in order for us to become embroiled in an argument about whether it is ethical to 'rescue' ghosts, we'd first have to have another argument about the sentience of ghosts and their ability to have agency. Are we treating these ghosts like animals, or like humans who, for some reason, have no ability to make their own decisions? And what if these ghosts have been sentenced to haunt in order to repent over past sins?

Can of worms, I tell you.

This thread sort of reminds me of this film.

 

[Ascalon]

I took it as a succinct conversation starter?

No doubt, as a conversation starter it is a cracker, but as premise it is futile, IMO.

It heaps assumption on assumption, till Jenga-like, you might as well argue for angels on the heads of pins.

 

[Frideswide]

It heaps assumption on assumption, till Jenga-like, you might as well argue for angel's on the heads of pins.

Agreed - but it's one of the pleasures of this place

I speak as someone who really has debated the Angels/Pin issue!

 

[JimELUCIER]

A good question, but which is dependent on precisely how we define a ghost.
If ghosts really are the lingering post-mortum manifestations of people who are perhaps unaware that they have died and who are feeling confused and lost, then of course helping them to move on, is the compassionate thing to do.
If, however, a ghost is merely some sort of time-slip, then they are still alive in their time.
Finally, if a ghost is nothing more than a "Stone Tape" replay, then there is no more consciousness involved than in erasing an old video tape.

Good points.

 

[JimELUCIER]

Unless it is a particularly malevolent poltergeist then I say leave well alone. What a boring planet it would be without ghosts lurking on our dark and lonely roads and creaky old houses (etc.). However, I don't actually believe these self-proclaimed Mediums can "move on" ghosts to "the next level" or whatever so I don't lose any sleep over it. As regards the Church and exorcisms, I am more openminded in terms of said malevolent poltergeists as I have indirectly come across two cases in my own experience that appear to have been successful.

Really good points. Yes it would be boring.

 

[JimELUCIER]

In the Ghostbusters film, they also captured and locked up ghosts, with no trial or hearing. One of them was just minding her own business in a library but because people were afraid of her, she was captured. Should we really allow such cruel and unusual punishments?

LOL.

 

[JimELUCIER]

This assumes that ghosts are all one 'thing'. What about 'stone tape' examples - who needs rescuing?

True.

 

[JimELUCIER]

A good question, but which is dependent on precisely how we define a ghost.
If ghosts really are the lingering post-mortum manifestations of people who are perhaps unaware that they have died and who are feeling confused and lost, then of course helping them to move on, is the compassionate thing to do.
If, however, a ghost is merely some sort of time-slip, then they are still alive in their time.
Finally, if a ghost is nothing more than a "Stone Tape" replay, then there is no more consciousness involved than in erasing an old video tape.

True. But if the Ghost Hunters discover by questioning the ghost, that it is intelligent, then we need question whether or not extra steps should be taken to rescue the spirit, if that is what it is found to desire.

 

[JimELUCIER]

Agreed - but it's one of the pleasures of this place

I speak as someone who really has debated the Angels/Pin issue!

True.

I understand. All forms of the paranormal deal with assumptions. There are no facts. There is only subjective experience. We could all say we saw a ghost, or a UFO, but to anyone else, it is not their experience, it is an assumption based on subjective experience.

 

[JimELUCIER]

This thread sort of reminds me of this film.

Ya, this is a great movie.

 

[catseye]

True. But if the Ghost Hunters discover by questioning the ghost, that it is intelligent, then we need question whether or not extra steps should be taken to rescue the spirit, if that is what it is found to desire.

How do the ghost hunters know that they are questioning a ghost, and not elements of their own psyche?

 

[escargot]

This thread sort of reminds me of this film.

Saw that, couldn't make head nor tail of it.

 

[AnonyJ]

...There is the famous haunting of The Conjuring House, where a spirit keeps pulling a book off the shelf in the library room. The book is called "Moral Relativity.". Is the spirit, or the spirits trying to ask us to review our morals when we do ghost searching? Should we be questioning our motives? Are we using the ghosts for entertainment, for pleasure, and for profit?

There is yet another question we should be asking.
Should we be allowing haunted locations to remain intact, or should we be destroying, old, abandoned, run down, haunted factories, hospitals, and houses? Where is our moral compass on this? Are we inadvertently creating too many portals, and gateways in all of this? I would love your comments , or questions.
Maybe we can find solutions to these questions together.

Thank you.

A good question, but which is dependent on precisely how we define a ghost.
If ghosts really are the lingering post-mortum manifestations of people who are perhaps unaware that they have died and who are feeling confused and lost, then of course helping them to move on, is the compassionate thing to do.
If, however, a ghost is merely some sort of time-slip, then they are still alive in their time.
Finally, if a ghost is nothing more than a "Stone Tape" replay, then there is no more consciousness involved than in erasing an old video tape.

It's a fascinating question and something to consider.

Now we have the media technology to create movies, videos etc., rather than just referencing ghosts in oral and written tales, are the phenomena of ghosts and spirits something that should be monetised?

 

[JimELUCIER]

Appendix To Original Post:: Clarification............ Thank you for everyone's comments. Perhaps I should be a little more clear. I am speaking in general of ghosts who have been found to be human in origin, and found to be intelligent. Quit often a ghost, or spirit will ask for help. Just for the record, I should state that Kindred Spirits the T.V. show is an awesome show, and it is an only example of many T.V. paranormal, ghost hunting programs that from to time that speak of child ghosts. When it is found through investigation, a ghost, or haunting to be intelligent, not a "Play Back" tape, should the paranormal team, or teams, and, or the owners of the location attempt to rescue the human spirit? Or to at least offer the spirit a gate, or doorway out. Perhaps we could all just pray for the spirits, something I have done on several occasions. Finally, this thread post is based on assumption, or speculation, as all forms of the paranormal maybe based on assumption. It has always been the rule, that no matter how much so called 'evidence' that is provided, the paranormal experience is always a subjective one. We can all cry out that we saw a spirit, or an alien in a spaceship until cows discover their own cure for Mad Cow Disease, but only we, the experiencers will truly really know.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

I had posted this story here, some time ago, and it is along the lines of helping someone who is deceased, it happened to me:

"The worst thing that ever happened to me was after my mother passed away a few years ago. When I was a little girl, 6 to 7 years old, we lived in a 2nd floor apartment, a single woman lived downstairs. This woman (I'll call her 'Anna') worked in the textile mills all day, and often went out to the bars at night, she was a drinker. She started drinking so heavily that when she came home at 3:00 a.m. and put something on the stove to heat, she would fall asleep and the smoke would come upstairs. My parents then bought a house and we moved, never seeing her again.
As I grew older, my mother would show me photos she had taken of Anna, and told me her story. Anna had gained weight and didn't look well, she took my mother into confidence, she was putting a girdle on to hide the fact she was pregnant when she went to work, then went on vacation for a few weeks to give birth, came back and said she had given the baby up for adoption. My mom never told anyone, just me, and always hoped that Anna had gotten married and had a family and was happy.
Just after my mother passed on, Anna kept entering my consciousness, which is the only way I can put it, she kept saying to me, 'Find me, Find me', and wouldn't leave me alone. Whenever I had some time, I went onto the computer to look her up by her last name, but no luck. Months went by, my husband and I were busy moving, and I certainly had no time to look for her. I was just leaving the house to go to work one morning and I felt her grab my hand, imploring me.
Well I ran out of the house and looked her up on the computer at work when I had a moment, this time I found her through her husband's obituary, she had married, moved to another state, and he passed on. Now that I had her married name, I found that she had also passed on. But she still didn't leave me alone - I kept looking for census records and found she had several sisters scattered across the country, to make a long story short I found a nephew of hers in my area, and called him.
This nephew was not too pleased, and I gave him the old address where we had lived to prove I knew his Aunt. He also was not too pleased to hear that she had given a child up for adoption, especially since her family was annoyed with her because she had had a child previous to this one out of wedlock, and they had no idea she had a second child. Anyway, he emailed me a photo of Anna, a beautiful young woman, I still have the photo.
Obviously, she wanted her family to know about this child and perhaps to search for it, because after that Anna left me alone. But my conclusion is that I was the only person alive who knew her story, my mother had passed, and it was left to me to tell her family.
And her family held a church service for her, to help her rest in peace."

Anna never came back to me, so I believe she is at rest.

 

[Ogdred Weary]

In the Ghostbusters film, they also captured and locked up ghosts, with no trial or hearing. One of them was just minding her own business in a library but because people were afraid of her, she was captured. Should we really allow such cruel and unusual punishments?

No they just shout "get her" and then she turns into that zombie like thing and they run away screaming, we don't see them catch her. I like to think she's still having a nice quiet read, stacking books vertically and leaving her bogies all over them.

 

[Ogdred Weary]

Appendix To Original Post:: Clarification............ Thank you for everyone's comments. Perhaps I should be a little more clear. I am speaking in general of ghosts who have been found to be human in origin, and found to be intelligent. Quit often a ghost, or spirit will ask for help. Just for the record, I should state that Kindred Spirits the T.V. show is an awesome show, and it is an only example of many T.V. paranormal, ghost hunting programs that from to time that speak of child ghosts. When it is found through investigation, a ghost, or haunting to be intelligent, not a "Play Back" tape, should the paranormal team, or teams, and, or the owners of the location attempt to rescue the human spirit? Or to at least offer the spirit a gate, or doorway out. Perhaps we could all just pray for the spirits, something I have done on several occasions. Finally, this thread post is based on assumption, or speculation, as all forms of the paranormal maybe based on assumption. It has always been the rule, that no matter how much so called 'evidence' that is provided, the paranormal experience is always a subjective one. We can all cry out that we saw a spirit, or an alien in a spaceship until cows discover their own cure for Mad Cow Disease, but only we, the experiencers will truly really know.

I personally don't think that ghosts are the spirits of the dead, so a "no" to your question.

 

[escargot]

No they just shout "get her" and then she turns into that zombie like thing and they run away screaming, we don't see them catch her. I like to think she's still having a nice quiet read, stacking books vertically and leaving her bogies all over them.

Yup, the point of the scene is the they fail miserably as ghostbusters.

 

[JimELUCIER]

I had posted this story here, some time ago, and it is along the lines of helping someone who is deceased, it happened to me:

"The worst thing that ever happened to me was after my mother passed away a few years ago. When I was a little girl, 6 to 7 years old, we lived in a 2nd floor apartment, a single woman lived downstairs. This woman (I'll call her 'Anna') worked in the textile mills all day, and often went out to the bars at night, she was a drinker. She started drinking so heavily that when she came home at 3:00 a.m. and put something on the stove to heat, she would fall asleep and the smoke would come upstairs. My parents then bought a house and we moved, never seeing her again.
As I grew older, my mother would show me photos she had taken of Anna, and told me her story. Anna had gained weight and didn't look well, she took my mother into confidence, she was putting a girdle on to hide the fact she was pregnant when she went to work, then went on vacation for a few weeks to give birth, came back and said she had given the baby up for adoption. My mom never told anyone, just me, and always hoped that Anna had gotten married and had a family and was happy.
Just after my mother passed on, Anna kept entering my consciousness, which is the only way I can put it, she kept saying to me, 'Find me, Find me', and wouldn't leave me alone. Whenever I had some time, I went onto the computer to look her up by her last name, but no luck. Months went by, my husband and I were busy moving, and I certainly had no time to look for her. I was just leaving the house to go to work one morning and I felt her grab my hand, imploring me.
Well I ran out of the house and looked her up on the computer at work when I had a moment, this time I found her through her husband's obituary, she had married, moved to another state, and he passed on. Now that I had her married name, I found that she had also passed on. But she still didn't leave me alone - I kept looking for census records and found she had several sisters scattered across the country, to make a long story short I found a nephew of hers in my area, and called him.
This nephew was not too pleased, and I gave him the old address where we had lived to prove I knew his Aunt. He also was not too pleased to hear that she had given a child up for adoption, especially since her family was annoyed with her because she had had a child previous to this one out of wedlock, and they had no idea she had a second child. Anyway, he emailed me a photo of Anna, a beautiful young woman, I still have the photo.
Obviously, she wanted her family to know about this child and perhaps to search for it, because after that Anna left me alone. But my conclusion is that I was the only person alive who knew her story, my mother had passed, and it was left to me to tell her family.
And her family held a church service for her, to help her rest in peace."

Anna never came back to me, so I believe she is at rest.

Interesting. A fascinating story. I enjoyed reading this. Thank you for sharing.

 

[JimELUCIER]

It's a fascinating question and something to consider.

Now we have the media technology to create movies, videos etc., rather than just referencing ghosts in oral and written tales, are the phenomena of ghosts and spirits something that should be monetised?

It might work.