'Six Degrees Of Separation'
- Thread starter escargot
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 455
6 degrees of genealogy
One interesting aspect of the Small World/6 degrees of separation phenomenon is that it works through time as well as space. If you know your grandparents, and they know their grandparents, and so on, you can go back eleven or twelve generations in almost every line. The number of your ancestors 11 generations ago is 2*11 or 2,048 (assuming no duplications, which is hard to manage in small settled communities).
There is a lot of speculation on how far back you have to go before everybody in the world is related to you. A couple of famous biologists calculated 50 generations will do it. I have one probable line of descent from Charlemagne, but if I knew my whole family tree, he'd probably show up dozens of times.
British genealogists speculate that Edward III is the ancestor, if not of all British people, than at least of almost all the upper and upper middle classes, Malcolm (something) of Scotland is similarly the ancestor of all or almost all Scots, and Charlemagne of most or all Europeans.
The Prophet Muhammed was the ancestor of a number of Spanish royals, who were the ancestors of Edward III, etc.
Find one Royal in your family tree (and you would be almost certain to) and you've found them all. Think how many hands Queen Victoria must have shaken in her lifetime!
"Young man, how long have you been an inmate in this workhouse?"
"If it please you, ma'am, a gentleman named Charles Dickens already answered that question in his magazine last week."
One interesting aspect of the Small World/6 degrees of separation phenomenon is that it works through time as well as space. If you know your grandparents, and they know their grandparents, and so on, you can go back eleven or twelve generations in almost every line. The number of your ancestors 11 generations ago is 2*11 or 2,048 (assuming no duplications, which is hard to manage in small settled communities).
There is a lot of speculation on how far back you have to go before everybody in the world is related to you. A couple of famous biologists calculated 50 generations will do it. I have one probable line of descent from Charlemagne, but if I knew my whole family tree, he'd probably show up dozens of times.
British genealogists speculate that Edward III is the ancestor, if not of all British people, than at least of almost all the upper and upper middle classes, Malcolm (something) of Scotland is similarly the ancestor of all or almost all Scots, and Charlemagne of most or all Europeans.
The Prophet Muhammed was the ancestor of a number of Spanish royals, who were the ancestors of Edward III, etc.
Find one Royal in your family tree (and you would be almost certain to) and you've found them all. Think how many hands Queen Victoria must have shaken in her lifetime!
"Young man, how long have you been an inmate in this workhouse?"
"If it please you, ma'am, a gentleman named Charles Dickens already answered that question in his magazine last week."
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 455
Descendants of the Prophet
It is possible that every human being now alive is descended from the Prophet and anybody in his time who has descendants today.
A mathematician did the calculations, although they are much debated.
One thing is certain: if two individuals have no common ancestor, than they belong to different species.
Evolution says we all have common ancestors, microbes, humans, trees, etc.
The real question is at what point in time did our most recent common ancestor live? Also, at what point in time do all of the people who have descendants today become the ancestors of all of the people alive today (sorry is that is not a very clear statement). This is a moving target.
I know that I am descended from all ten of the ten most prolific ancestors in French Canada, which means I probably share at least one ancestor with any French Canadian of old stock. In a similar manner, the early settlers of New England, English Canada, etc., have millions of descendants, all related somehow or other, without knowing how.
A child born in 1945 would have about 2,000,000 ancestors around 1200-1250. That would be about two thirds of the population of the British Isles.
My British ancestors are, in all probability, common to many hundreds of thousands or millions of people of British Stock, although some homebodies probably don't share my French ancestors, and only thousands of British people have any chance of sharing a French Canadian ancestor--probably an Acadian exile, some of whom ended up in Britain, or a French Huguenot who fled to Britain in 1685 because of religious persecution.
The Mayflower Pilgrims of the 1620 are estimated to be the ancestors of more than 8 million Americans and another million people in Africa, Asia, etc. Sailors do get around.
It is possible that every human being now alive is descended from the Prophet and anybody in his time who has descendants today.
A mathematician did the calculations, although they are much debated.
One thing is certain: if two individuals have no common ancestor, than they belong to different species.
Evolution says we all have common ancestors, microbes, humans, trees, etc.
The real question is at what point in time did our most recent common ancestor live? Also, at what point in time do all of the people who have descendants today become the ancestors of all of the people alive today (sorry is that is not a very clear statement). This is a moving target.
I know that I am descended from all ten of the ten most prolific ancestors in French Canada, which means I probably share at least one ancestor with any French Canadian of old stock. In a similar manner, the early settlers of New England, English Canada, etc., have millions of descendants, all related somehow or other, without knowing how.
A child born in 1945 would have about 2,000,000 ancestors around 1200-1250. That would be about two thirds of the population of the British Isles.
My British ancestors are, in all probability, common to many hundreds of thousands or millions of people of British Stock, although some homebodies probably don't share my French ancestors, and only thousands of British people have any chance of sharing a French Canadian ancestor--probably an Acadian exile, some of whom ended up in Britain, or a French Huguenot who fled to Britain in 1685 because of religious persecution.
The Mayflower Pilgrims of the 1620 are estimated to be the ancestors of more than 8 million Americans and another million people in Africa, Asia, etc. Sailors do get around.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Re: Descendants of the Prophet
(Not than any are likely to be my ancestors, as I'm not from round here. More details, if required, when I'm sober!)
There was a bunch of Acadian exiles ended up here (Penryn, Cornwall). There's been a play about them, and I think many are buried in the local churchyard.littleblackduck said:
(Not than any are likely to be my ancestors, as I'm not from round here. More details, if required, when I'm sober!)
A
Anonymous
Guest
I saw Ant and Dec in the main shopping street in Jersey last week. I told them that "Challenge Ant " was much better than "Brians Brain" and they both agreed with me!
Then yesterday, I heard they're axing SMTV! Who says they don't listen to the little people!
PS; I then bored my wife senseless with showbiz stories about my new celebrity pals Ant and Dec!
Then yesterday, I heard they're axing SMTV! Who says they don't listen to the little people!
PS; I then bored my wife senseless with showbiz stories about my new celebrity pals Ant and Dec!
A
Anonymous
Guest
For those of you wishing to extend your own celebrity six degrees, mostly in the b-list tv celebs/ obscure pop music directions:
1) A schoolfriend's dad used to date Bill Drummond's ex-wife, Julia. I have harrassed pidgeons on her roof.
2) I croupiered a game of roulette for among others, Leslie Joseph (Dorian from 'Birds Of A Feather')
3) I loaded tv actor John Thompson onto the Skyride at Alton Towers, and Phillip Schofield onto the Swan Boats.
4) As of this weekend at the Reading festival, I stood within punching distance of Zane Lowe to watch System Of A Down (but wasn't brave enough to clock the fool).
5) Also as of today leaving Reading, I saw the lead singer of 80s Matchbox B-Line Disaster wandering the campsite in a, ahem, dazed state, rummaging distractedly through the litter. Serves him right. I tore my new trousers in the pit at their set yesterday.
6) A close pal's ex-flatmate is the keyboard player in Hell Is For Heroes.
7) And on a less celebrity-themed note, I'm close family of a guy called Patrick Adams, which appears to makes me seperated by two degrees or less from any of you who have ever ridden a mountain bike competitively in this country. Greetings to all my new two-wheeled brothers. World feel any smaller yet?
1) A schoolfriend's dad used to date Bill Drummond's ex-wife, Julia. I have harrassed pidgeons on her roof.
2) I croupiered a game of roulette for among others, Leslie Joseph (Dorian from 'Birds Of A Feather')
3) I loaded tv actor John Thompson onto the Skyride at Alton Towers, and Phillip Schofield onto the Swan Boats.
4) As of this weekend at the Reading festival, I stood within punching distance of Zane Lowe to watch System Of A Down (but wasn't brave enough to clock the fool).
5) Also as of today leaving Reading, I saw the lead singer of 80s Matchbox B-Line Disaster wandering the campsite in a, ahem, dazed state, rummaging distractedly through the litter. Serves him right. I tore my new trousers in the pit at their set yesterday.
6) A close pal's ex-flatmate is the keyboard player in Hell Is For Heroes.
7) And on a less celebrity-themed note, I'm close family of a guy called Patrick Adams, which appears to makes me seperated by two degrees or less from any of you who have ever ridden a mountain bike competitively in this country. Greetings to all my new two-wheeled brothers. World feel any smaller yet?
escargot
Disciple of Marduk
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2001
- Messages
- 43,485
- Location
- HM The Tower of London
Me and the aristocracy...
At Haddon Hall today I suddenly remembered that on my last visit I was, along with the rest of my school party, presented to his grace the Duke of Rutland.
:chuffed:
Well, this was over 35 years ago. I was easily impressed.
At Haddon Hall today I suddenly remembered that on my last visit I was, along with the rest of my school party, presented to his grace the Duke of Rutland.
:chuffed:
Well, this was over 35 years ago. I was easily impressed.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Sorry if I'm reviving a dead thread...
I was taught physics for four years by a man who once worked under Barnes Wallis, and attended secondary school with a chess Grand Master. I have been intimate with distant relatives of Phillipa Forrester, and (more impressively) Robert Falcon Scott. In an unrelated incident, my wife was once (allegedly) "propositioned" by Barry from Eastenders.
I was taught physics for four years by a man who once worked under Barnes Wallis, and attended secondary school with a chess Grand Master. I have been intimate with distant relatives of Phillipa Forrester, and (more impressively) Robert Falcon Scott. In an unrelated incident, my wife was once (allegedly) "propositioned" by Barry from Eastenders.
A
Anonymous
Guest
On page 1, Schnor sayeth;
Schnor has also shaken prince Charles' hand - as have I (Cheshire show, late 1990's)
Therefore, I am doubly, deeply, cosmically linked to SCHNOR! :blissed:
but where's my chrissy card??
I have met and spoken to Chris Bonnington on board an Aeroplane, he was on his way to the Himalaya with a climbing team.
Schnor has also shaken prince Charles' hand - as have I (Cheshire show, late 1990's)
Therefore, I am doubly, deeply, cosmically linked to SCHNOR! :blissed:
but where's my chrissy card??
A
Anonymous
Guest
Also, My ex's granny (my son's great-granny) was the sister to the Granny of Julian Sands (british actor) who has been in fillums with Helena Bonham-Carter, Daniel Day-Lewis, Maggie Smith, Hugh Grant (I think) and more...so if I take all their connections, I must be linked within six degree's to most of hollywood.
again - chrissy cards?? where?
Also, I live between Stoke on Trent and Alderley edge, so virtually everyone I know has met/seen either Robbie or Posh'n'Becks. Except me. But I did hobnob with Gordon Banks at a charity do a few days ago ('66 world cup goalie). And got his autograph. it was for my son...
again - chrissy cards?? where?
Also, I live between Stoke on Trent and Alderley edge, so virtually everyone I know has met/seen either Robbie or Posh'n'Becks. Except me. But I did hobnob with Gordon Banks at a charity do a few days ago ('66 world cup goalie). And got his autograph. it was for my son...
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2001
- Messages
- 417
Lord_Flashheart said:
the rev jim jones was the bishop of liverpool?
I've got Bertrand Russell in two (I was tutored by one of his students) & am reliably informed that his rooms at Oxford had the warm hum of sperm as he was still getting jiggy with his assistants when he was well into his 70's...
Got Otto von Habsburg and the whole Jordanian royal family in two as well, through disreputable friends...
Have a friend who's met the Pope...does that mean I've got God, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
Got Otto von Habsburg and the whole Jordanian royal family in two as well, through disreputable friends...
Have a friend who's met the Pope...does that mean I've got God, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
A
Anonymous
Guest
My tenous link...
I remember about four a strange man came to are house and chased me down are corridor to are kitchen making monkey sounds...
...I later was told that the strange man was Jack Straw later on to be an MP, trying to do a gorrilla impression.
p.s. For those not in the know Jack Straw was Home Secretary (1997-2001) and is now Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (2001-).
I remember about four a strange man came to are house and chased me down are corridor to are kitchen making monkey sounds...
...I later was told that the strange man was Jack Straw later on to be an MP, trying to do a gorrilla impression.
p.s. For those not in the know Jack Straw was Home Secretary (1997-2001) and is now Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (2001-).
escargot
Disciple of Marduk
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2001
- Messages
- 43,485
- Location
- HM The Tower of London
Hooooooo Redtom, my son knows Jack Straw's son at Oxford. Where's my crimbo card M8?
One of my lecturers comes from Soham and went to the village college there when it was a grammar school....
Still has rellies there.
One of my lecturers comes from Soham and went to the village college there when it was a grammar school....
Still has rellies there.
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2001
- Messages
- 417
got martin mcguiness in two, and jack straw's son in two, and mrs. slocombes' pussy in three!
escargot
Disciple of Marduk
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2001
- Messages
- 43,485
- Location
- HM The Tower of London
Mark Henderson, the British hostage coming home today, was kidnapped the same time as 'Matthew Scott, 19, from Clapham, south London,' who 'escaped after leaping into a ravine and trekking through the jungle alone for 12 days.' (BBC news)
Scott is a student at my son's university and they have drunk together. Son says the puir wee laddie was photographed and interviewed non-stop when he arrived.
edit- and here he is............Matthew
Scott is a student at my son's university and they have drunk together. Son says the puir wee laddie was photographed and interviewed non-stop when he arrived.
edit- and here he is............Matthew
A
Anonymous
Guest
Alexius said:Have a friend who's met the Pope...does that mean I've got God, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
Yes, and quite possibly Father Christmas as well!
Which may explain the Ferrari parked outside your door on Christmas morning.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 455
From Here to Eternity
During the Christmas holidays, my mother showed me an article by a neighbour's son about his few weeks volunteering with Mother Theresa (just think how many people she was acquainted with in all walks of life!)
So it is:
0 - Me
1 - Him
2 - Mother Theresa
3 - Kurt Valdheim - Pope John Paul II - Princess Diana - and then ....
4 - virtually everybody else on Earth
(Hmmm....wonder how many steps separates former Nazi Kurt Valdheim from Hitler? He must have known somebody who knew Hitler. Same thing for Pope John Paul II--I suppose God would be a 3 or 5, depending on how close you assume Mother Theresa and the Pope are to the Big Guy. Never met the fellow myself. Doing so would short-circuit the whole network, anyway. Where's the fun in that?)
This illustrates why 6 degrees of separation or the small world phenomenon works: well connected people have a tendancy to be connected to lots of people, especially other well-connected people.
Once you get into celebrity territory, you can pretty much chose your target person at random and be sure to find a path.
But you mustn't neglect the ordinary people--it is their numbers that make the system efficient, even if attempts to trace links through them is practically impossible.
As I understand the articles and books I have read on the subject, it is precisely because a few people are immensely well-connected that this thing works. It is called a non-scalar network. Any given node (or person) will have a random number of links, which in a few instances will be quite large, but mostly quite small.
If everybody had the same number of links the net wouldn't function as efficiently, even with a larger average or median number of links per person.
For example, if we passed notes to each other by hand, it would be harder to get a note passed on to some distant person. Imagine that we all stand in a square grid (covering a number of square miles) and can pass notes to the nine people next to us. A note passed from hand to hand systematically would have to go through the square root of six billion people to get across the grid, while moving randomly across the same grid, you can get lucky or use your brains to point the note in the right direction, namely the person you know who is closest to your target and well-connected to boot.
Even poorly connected people have to know somebody. Chances are it is somebody locally well-connected, like their postmistress or a shopkeeper.
During the Christmas holidays, my mother showed me an article by a neighbour's son about his few weeks volunteering with Mother Theresa (just think how many people she was acquainted with in all walks of life!)
So it is:
0 - Me
1 - Him
2 - Mother Theresa
3 - Kurt Valdheim - Pope John Paul II - Princess Diana - and then ....
4 - virtually everybody else on Earth
(Hmmm....wonder how many steps separates former Nazi Kurt Valdheim from Hitler? He must have known somebody who knew Hitler. Same thing for Pope John Paul II--I suppose God would be a 3 or 5, depending on how close you assume Mother Theresa and the Pope are to the Big Guy. Never met the fellow myself. Doing so would short-circuit the whole network, anyway. Where's the fun in that?)
This illustrates why 6 degrees of separation or the small world phenomenon works: well connected people have a tendancy to be connected to lots of people, especially other well-connected people.
Once you get into celebrity territory, you can pretty much chose your target person at random and be sure to find a path.
But you mustn't neglect the ordinary people--it is their numbers that make the system efficient, even if attempts to trace links through them is practically impossible.
As I understand the articles and books I have read on the subject, it is precisely because a few people are immensely well-connected that this thing works. It is called a non-scalar network. Any given node (or person) will have a random number of links, which in a few instances will be quite large, but mostly quite small.
If everybody had the same number of links the net wouldn't function as efficiently, even with a larger average or median number of links per person.
For example, if we passed notes to each other by hand, it would be harder to get a note passed on to some distant person. Imagine that we all stand in a square grid (covering a number of square miles) and can pass notes to the nine people next to us. A note passed from hand to hand systematically would have to go through the square root of six billion people to get across the grid, while moving randomly across the same grid, you can get lucky or use your brains to point the note in the right direction, namely the person you know who is closest to your target and well-connected to boot.
Even poorly connected people have to know somebody. Chances are it is somebody locally well-connected, like their postmistress or a shopkeeper.
A
Anonymous
Guest
My friend's father worked as a traffic cop in the Liverpool area until he retired. He stopped Paul McCartney's brother (sorry, don't know his first name) on the road several times. Not only that, he's been to their place 'for a bowl of soup' a few times, too.
Beakmoo
Justified & Ancient
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2001
- Messages
- 2,968
That's Amyescargot said:Hoooooooo
My sister met some famous fat lesbian at a gay tea party in London, and this lady was on the fat prog tonight, so obviously Beak'n'I're now sisters!
She'll be delighted. Anyway, we were always sisters under the skin.