A
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Who is Ian?
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Re: Who is Ian?
The author of a book about NDEs, silly.
EDIT Ian Wilson - I checked in the library.
Re: Hell
Some of the biblical references to Hell, were translated from the original Hebrew word Gehenna. I'll provide exact biblical quotes on request.
"Gehenna" was a place outside Jerusalem where "unclean" litter such as animal carcasses were disposed of by burning - a bit like an ancient incinerator - the fires were kept burning constantly, possibly because of the number of animal sacrifices that were made for atonement of sins. The biblical authors used this term not so much because of the fiery aspect, but because of the implied uncleanliness of anything so destroyed. So to be worthy of destruction in Gehenna meant your sins were disgustingly, degradingly filthy. Hence the analogy that was used. The idea of fires was therefore adopted later by other religions, especially the Catholics, to imply fitting punishment for someone who hadn't led a wholesome life. And eventually the idea of a place designed especially for such punishment took root in the religious ideology.
The author of a book about NDEs, silly.
EDIT Ian Wilson - I checked in the library.
Re: Hell
Some of the biblical references to Hell, were translated from the original Hebrew word Gehenna. I'll provide exact biblical quotes on request.
"Gehenna" was a place outside Jerusalem where "unclean" litter such as animal carcasses were disposed of by burning - a bit like an ancient incinerator - the fires were kept burning constantly, possibly because of the number of animal sacrifices that were made for atonement of sins. The biblical authors used this term not so much because of the fiery aspect, but because of the implied uncleanliness of anything so destroyed. So to be worthy of destruction in Gehenna meant your sins were disgustingly, degradingly filthy. Hence the analogy that was used. The idea of fires was therefore adopted later by other religions, especially the Catholics, to imply fitting punishment for someone who hadn't led a wholesome life. And eventually the idea of a place designed especially for such punishment took root in the religious ideology.
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Anonymous
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I'm glad you cleared that up 
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A couple of years ago, in 1999 or thereabouts, an American novel came out on this topic. It's called "The Descent," and is written by Jeff Long. The film rights were already sold while the book was still in its proofs, so perhaps it will be watchable before too long.
The premise of the novel is that Hell is a real, physical place inside the Earth, but that it has no relation to an afterlife. Rather, its inhabitants are some sort of coexisting species that have been around forever, and occasional sightings of them aboveground were responsible for historic beliefs in goblins and such things.
In the story, some Himalayan cavers accidentally break through to this underworld, and eventually everyone finds out and the military becomes involved, the world is imperiled, etc., etc...
It's not great literature by any means, and the second half of the book tends to drag, but bits are interesting and it's a diverting read. If you like the Shaver Mystery and cities-inside-the-earth types of things, you might find it enjoyable.
The premise of the novel is that Hell is a real, physical place inside the Earth, but that it has no relation to an afterlife. Rather, its inhabitants are some sort of coexisting species that have been around forever, and occasional sightings of them aboveground were responsible for historic beliefs in goblins and such things.
In the story, some Himalayan cavers accidentally break through to this underworld, and eventually everyone finds out and the military becomes involved, the world is imperiled, etc., etc...
It's not great literature by any means, and the second half of the book tends to drag, but bits are interesting and it's a diverting read. If you like the Shaver Mystery and cities-inside-the-earth types of things, you might find it enjoyable.
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Anonymous
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well i don't think there is a "hell" you can break into. Hell is a spiritual place.... unless like the lady on the others said "sometimes the world of the living gets confused with the world of the dead"
I've come across this sort of story before, often trotted out by fundemental christians. ( a variation is a story that appeared on the front page of the April 7, 1992 Weekly World News with the headline:
Satan Escapes from Hell, 13 Alaskan oil rig workers killed when the Devil roars out of control
This story describes how an oil well penetrated Hell and exploded as Satan roared up through the hole at a drillsite somewhere in Alaska. The front page shows a huge cloud with the likeness of Satan pouring out of a burning oil derrick. There is even expert commentary given on this event in a sidebar by a Dr. Dimitri Azzacov complete with his alleged picture (Brunvand 1993).)
I seem to recall that A. Conan Doyle made a humourus reference to the idea of miners digging into hell in a poem.
Strange noises interpreted as groans and voices are very common in mining lore - cf Spriggans, Knockers, Kobolds and so on. The interpretation that it is in fact the souls of the dead in hell seems to be a predictable christian take on an old phenomenon.
The web site certainally makes hell sound an uninviting place - but actually it's cooler than heaven ! (Continued in next post)
:eek!!!!:
Satan Escapes from Hell, 13 Alaskan oil rig workers killed when the Devil roars out of control
This story describes how an oil well penetrated Hell and exploded as Satan roared up through the hole at a drillsite somewhere in Alaska. The front page shows a huge cloud with the likeness of Satan pouring out of a burning oil derrick. There is even expert commentary given on this event in a sidebar by a Dr. Dimitri Azzacov complete with his alleged picture (Brunvand 1993).)
I seem to recall that A. Conan Doyle made a humourus reference to the idea of miners digging into hell in a poem.
Strange noises interpreted as groans and voices are very common in mining lore - cf Spriggans, Knockers, Kobolds and so on. The interpretation that it is in fact the souls of the dead in hell seems to be a predictable christian take on an old phenomenon.
The web site certainally makes hell sound an uninviting place - but actually it's cooler than heaven ! (Continued in next post)
:eek!!!!:
Yes folks, it's cooler to be in hell than in heaven! The following was published in In Applied Optics (1972, 11 A14)
The temperature of heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is the Bible, Isaiah 30:26 reads, Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days. Thus, heaven receives from the moon as much radiation as the earth does from the sun, and in addition seven times seven (forty nine) times as much as the earth does from the sun, or fifty times in all. The light we receive from the moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we receive from the sun, so we can ignore that. With these data we can compute the temperature of heaven: The radiation falling on heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth power law for radiation
(H/E)4 = 50
where E is the absolute temperature of the earth, 300°K (273+27). This gives H the absolute temperature of heaven, as 798° absolute (525°C).
The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed but it must be less than 444.6°C, the temperature at which brimstone or sulfur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8: But the fearful and unbelieving... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone [sulfur] means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, which is 444.6°C. (Above that point, it would be a vapor, not a lake.)
We have then, temperature of heaven, 525°C (977°F). Temperature of hell, less than 445°F). Therefore heaven is hotter than hell.
:blah:
- I underand that Dr. Tim Healey has posted a different set of calculations - I'll try and track them down and post them!
The temperature of heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is the Bible, Isaiah 30:26 reads, Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days. Thus, heaven receives from the moon as much radiation as the earth does from the sun, and in addition seven times seven (forty nine) times as much as the earth does from the sun, or fifty times in all. The light we receive from the moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we receive from the sun, so we can ignore that. With these data we can compute the temperature of heaven: The radiation falling on heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth power law for radiation
(H/E)4 = 50
where E is the absolute temperature of the earth, 300°K (273+27). This gives H the absolute temperature of heaven, as 798° absolute (525°C).
The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed but it must be less than 444.6°C, the temperature at which brimstone or sulfur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8: But the fearful and unbelieving... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone [sulfur] means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, which is 444.6°C. (Above that point, it would be a vapor, not a lake.)
We have then, temperature of heaven, 525°C (977°F). Temperature of hell, less than 445°F). Therefore heaven is hotter than hell.
:blah:
- I underand that Dr. Tim Healey has posted a different set of calculations - I'll try and track them down and post them!
Yes folks, it's cooler to be in hell than in heaven! The following was published in In Applied Optics (1972, 11 A14)
The temperature of heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is the Bible, Isaiah 30:26 reads, Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days. Thus, heaven receives from the moon as much radiation as the earth does from the sun, and in addition seven times seven (forty nine) times as much as the earth does from the sun, or fifty times in all. The light we receive from the moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we receive from the sun, so we can ignore that. With these data we can compute the temperature of heaven: The radiation falling on heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth power law for radiation
(H/E)4 = 50
where E is the absolute temperature of the earth, 300°K (273+27). This gives H the absolute temperature of heaven, as 798° absolute (525°C).
The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed but it must be less than 444.6°C, the temperature at which brimstone or sulfur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8: But the fearful and unbelieving... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone [sulfur] means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, which is 444.6°C. (Above that point, it would be a vapor, not a lake.)
We have then, temperature of heaven, 525°C (977°F). Temperature of hell, less than 445°F). Therefore heaven is hotter than hell.
:blah:
- I underand that Dr. Tim Healey has posted a different set of calculations - I'll try and track them down and post them!
The temperature of heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is the Bible, Isaiah 30:26 reads, Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days. Thus, heaven receives from the moon as much radiation as the earth does from the sun, and in addition seven times seven (forty nine) times as much as the earth does from the sun, or fifty times in all. The light we receive from the moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we receive from the sun, so we can ignore that. With these data we can compute the temperature of heaven: The radiation falling on heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth power law for radiation
(H/E)4 = 50
where E is the absolute temperature of the earth, 300°K (273+27). This gives H the absolute temperature of heaven, as 798° absolute (525°C).
The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed but it must be less than 444.6°C, the temperature at which brimstone or sulfur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8: But the fearful and unbelieving... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone [sulfur] means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, which is 444.6°C. (Above that point, it would be a vapor, not a lake.)
We have then, temperature of heaven, 525°C (977°F). Temperature of hell, less than 445°F). Therefore heaven is hotter than hell.
:blah:
- I underand that Dr. Tim Healey has posted a different set of calculations - I'll try and track them down and post them!
Tom Slemen in his Weird World or World Mysteries or something has a story very similar, except it was a team of soviet geologists who has broken into 'hell'.
He suggests that if the story is original then it may have been a type of anti-soviet religious propaganda to try and convince people that Hell does exist.
Anyway, its weird.
He suggests that if the story is original then it may have been a type of anti-soviet religious propaganda to try and convince people that Hell does exist.
Anyway, its weird.
A
Anonymous
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Graylien,
You can see the original newspaper article and download an mp3 file of the Hell tape here (click on the round button in the middle of the page):
omolenko.com/texts/hell.htm
Link is dead. An archived version of the 2005 webpage can be accessed via the Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050208001355/http://www.omolenko.com/texts/hell.htm
NOTE: The mp3 download link in the Wayback's archived version does not work.
But I wouldn't do it at bedtime. :shock:
If you are interested in the history of the Sounds of Hell tape, I found this in the original source:
* The event took place in the late 1980s when the U.S.S.R. still existed.
* The drill site is located in the northwest Kola Peninsula, near the port of Murmansk and the Norwegian border.
* The goal of the drilling expedition was to record the sound of lithospheric plate movement. The enormous work started in the 70s. Samples and temperature measurements were taken at each new bed (level) and carefully stored in boxes. The gigantic drilling rig is still there and is reportedly 20 storeys tall.
* The depth where the recording was made apparently was 14 km (according to one source, 14.4 km). According to other sources, the core sample taken in 1991 was from 12,261 m below surface. First time in the history of geology an uninterrupted subcrop of two extremely ancient complexes dating from 3 to 1,6 billion years have been opened.
* The project manager’s last name at the time of the incident was Azzakov. He is quoted saying: "As a Communist, I don’t believe in Heaven or the Bible, but as a scientist, I now believe in the existence of Hell. Needless to say, we were stunned after making this discovery . . . The screams and wails were not those of a single person – they were the screams, wails and moans of millions of people".
rjm wrote: a type of anti-soviet religious propaganda to try and convince people that Hell does exist.
Trust me, rjm, it is highly unlikely, considering the real persons involved such as the existing project manager, his professional position and his party status (you had to be in the CPSU to hold a position like that).
You can see the original newspaper article and download an mp3 file of the Hell tape here (click on the round button in the middle of the page):
Link is dead. An archived version of the 2005 webpage can be accessed via the Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050208001355/http://www.omolenko.com/texts/hell.htm
NOTE: The mp3 download link in the Wayback's archived version does not work.
But I wouldn't do it at bedtime. :shock:
If you are interested in the history of the Sounds of Hell tape, I found this in the original source:
* The event took place in the late 1980s when the U.S.S.R. still existed.
* The drill site is located in the northwest Kola Peninsula, near the port of Murmansk and the Norwegian border.
* The goal of the drilling expedition was to record the sound of lithospheric plate movement. The enormous work started in the 70s. Samples and temperature measurements were taken at each new bed (level) and carefully stored in boxes. The gigantic drilling rig is still there and is reportedly 20 storeys tall.
* The depth where the recording was made apparently was 14 km (according to one source, 14.4 km). According to other sources, the core sample taken in 1991 was from 12,261 m below surface. First time in the history of geology an uninterrupted subcrop of two extremely ancient complexes dating from 3 to 1,6 billion years have been opened.
* The project manager’s last name at the time of the incident was Azzakov. He is quoted saying: "As a Communist, I don’t believe in Heaven or the Bible, but as a scientist, I now believe in the existence of Hell. Needless to say, we were stunned after making this discovery . . . The screams and wails were not those of a single person – they were the screams, wails and moans of millions of people".
rjm wrote: a type of anti-soviet religious propaganda to try and convince people that Hell does exist.
Trust me, rjm, it is highly unlikely, considering the real persons involved such as the existing project manager, his professional position and his party status (you had to be in the CPSU to hold a position like that).
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escargot
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Well, I can't read Russian (though my sister can) so I had no idea what the page said.
(NOTE: See later post for an English translation.)
The story sounds like a hoax to me, and that's putting it mildly. :lol:
All sorts of maad stories come out of Russia. Most of them are unverifiable.
It's a place of wild snowy steppes and vodka.
(NOTE: See later post for an English translation.)
The story sounds like a hoax to me, and that's putting it mildly. :lol:
All sorts of maad stories come out of Russia. Most of them are unverifiable.
It's a place of wild snowy steppes and vodka.
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i've heard the theory that the "sounds from hell" tape is just people at a shopping mall or amusement park with some echo effects. the only reason why its scary is because you think its going to be. the first time i heard the sound late at night on Art Bell, i was a bit freaked, had trouble sleeping. Later i came across it again on a forum where someone mentioned the shopping mall. On this second listening, my reaction was much different.
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I was under the impression that the Tapes of Hell story was just made up by the Weekly World News, but I could be totally wrong about that.
-Fitz
-Fitz
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Graylien
As if!
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CoffeeJedi said:
I'd agree with that. Having just heard it, it sounds to me like its a composite of at least three different recordings: one of children playing, one of someone giving a speech, and one of something or other being played backwards far too slowly. I believe it would be fairly easy to cook up something like this on a standard PC these days. In fact, I might give it a go myself.
(BTW, thanks for the tip, Dreeness)
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Anonymous
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I believe it would be fairly easy to cook up something like this on a standard PC these days.
Well, two facts to consider: the tape is about 25 years old and it came through a reliable source - the Reuters news agency.
Well, two facts to consider: the tape is about 25 years old and it came through a reliable source - the Reuters news agency.
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escargot
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The fact that a report comes through a reputable news agency still doesn't mean it's true.
Journalists collect and pass on stories for a living and they only check their sources thoroughly if they're doing an investigation, which evidently isn't the case here.
If a Reuters journo first gets a bizarre story, say about Hell being a few meters below the surface of Russia, they publish it and leave it to others to follow it up.
At the risk of sounding unFortean, I have to say that I do not and never will believe in the physical existence of Hell and no amount of tapes or 'eyewitness' accounts will convince me.
Journalists collect and pass on stories for a living and they only check their sources thoroughly if they're doing an investigation, which evidently isn't the case here.
If a Reuters journo first gets a bizarre story, say about Hell being a few meters below the surface of Russia, they publish it and leave it to others to follow it up.
At the risk of sounding unFortean, I have to say that I do not and never will believe in the physical existence of Hell and no amount of tapes or 'eyewitness' accounts will convince me.
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Anonymous
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I have to second that. A physical, real Hell would put a dent in more than one generally accepted fact about the physical world.
Hell would be contingent with: Hollow earth theories, fairy or gnome stuff, and who knows what else.
Still, interesting story.
I tried to translate it from the Russian but my dictionary didn't have an entry for 'superlabial,' which is how I read 'sverxhgubokoy.'
I gave up, especially since Penguin seemed to have translated it already. Keep up the good work, Mr. Penguin!
Hell would be contingent with: Hollow earth theories, fairy or gnome stuff, and who knows what else.
Still, interesting story.
I tried to translate it from the Russian but my dictionary didn't have an entry for 'superlabial,' which is how I read 'sverxhgubokoy.'
I gave up, especially since Penguin seemed to have translated it already. Keep up the good work, Mr. Penguin!
"Hell" is a quite a leap, accepting for the moment the idea of a very deep hole with very unhappy voices coming out of it, that doesn't necessarily mean "Hell", it could mean all sorts of things, perhaps merely a group of individuals who happen to live in a very deep hole, and aren't very happy about it.
Although the idea of a bunch of fallen angels at the dawn of time digging a vast bunker beneath Russia does have a certain cinematic appeal, I mean picture it, there they are digging away, muttering things like "crummy Yahweh, we'll show him, we'll live under Siberia, oh yes", that would be neat.
Although the idea of a bunch of fallen angels at the dawn of time digging a vast bunker beneath Russia does have a certain cinematic appeal, I mean picture it, there they are digging away, muttering things like "crummy Yahweh, we'll show him, we'll live under Siberia, oh yes", that would be neat.
First time I heard the Sounds from Hell, it was from some moron who sent it in to Art Bell's show years back when Art was still hosting. It's made the rounds here in the States with variations on the tale, where it was recorded, etc. etc.
It's basically been given hoax status, at least here.
http://www.snopes.com/religion/wellhell.htm
It's basically been given hoax status, at least here.
http://www.snopes.com/religion/wellhell.htm
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Voices from Hell?
The "Voices from Hell" tape, supposedly recorded by Soviet well- drillers, sounds almost exactly like those "scary sounds" cassette tapes sold all over the place around Halloween - and just about as frightening.
The "Voices from Hell" tape, supposedly recorded by Soviet well- drillers, sounds almost exactly like those "scary sounds" cassette tapes sold all over the place around Halloween - and just about as frightening.
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this is an urban legend, I've heard many variants, I think this maybe found on snopes.com
The original story had a christian element to it. That some russians dug to hell and could hear the voices of people being tortured...
The original story had a christian element to it. That some russians dug to hell and could hear the voices of people being tortured...
Graylien
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The Well To Hell
This is the Snopes item debunking the "Russians drill into Hell" UL. Here's a relevant excerpt:
This is the Snopes item debunking the "Russians drill into Hell" UL. Here's a relevant excerpt:
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Hell
A good many of us accept the existence of a "real" Hell and quite possibly even a "physical" one (depending upon definition) without crudely locating it in caverns under our feet.
volshebnik said:
A good many of us accept the existence of a "real" Hell and quite possibly even a "physical" one (depending upon definition) without crudely locating it in caverns under our feet.
uair01
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The "screams from the underground" story reminds me of the Iceberg Sound recordings that are mentioned here:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24383
It really sounds like voices from hell. If the russians tried to record the sound of scaping continental plates then that must have been a pretty hellish sound. I would like to hear the recording!
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24383
It really sounds like voices from hell. If the russians tried to record the sound of scaping continental plates then that must have been a pretty hellish sound. I would like to hear the recording!
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Sounds from Hell
I know the "Tape from Hell" scares the you-know-what out of some listeners but to me it sounds almost exactly the same as the cheap "Spooky Effects" cassettes available from any large chain store just before Halloween.
All you'd need to make (fake) such a tape is a half-dozen people sitting around a kitchen table, plus some form of electronic or even mechanical reverberation unit. Perhaps recorded three or four times and the various takes then mixed.
I know the "Tape from Hell" scares the you-know-what out of some listeners but to me it sounds almost exactly the same as the cheap "Spooky Effects" cassettes available from any large chain store just before Halloween.
All you'd need to make (fake) such a tape is a half-dozen people sitting around a kitchen table, plus some form of electronic or even mechanical reverberation unit. Perhaps recorded three or four times and the various takes then mixed.
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Here's the Google translation of the 2005 webpage text (as archived at the Wayback Machine):
James_H
And I like to roam the land
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Here are some photos of the project leader of the Kola borehole, now an old man, and some of the stuff he has collected about it in the hope of one day opening a museum. It includes a painting showing hell beneath the hole:
https://www.yurenev.com/yuris-journey-to-hell
https://www.yurenev.com/yuris-journey-to-hell