• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

The Crooked House In Himley: The Pub Where Coins 'Roll Uphill'

RaM said:
The site of Punch Bowl Inn that was demolished and ordered to be rebuilt
is now being surveyed to see how much can be used in a rebuild.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-66498496
Click to expand...
"If the owners of the site fail to meet their obligations, all options will be considered, including prosecution."

Surely they failed to meet their obligations by knocking it down in the first place?
 
Floyd1 said:
"If the owners of the site fail to meet their obligations, all options will be considered, including prosecution."

Surely they failed to meet their obligations by knocking it down in the first place?
Click to expand...
And am I alone in suspecting that the owners will simply move abroad or vanish in some other way rather than take on the expense of a rebuild?
 
One and a half Million as been estimated to put the Punch Bowl back as was.
A planning application as been put in as a way forward for Holliday lets to be
built on the site, likely the motive for knocking it down in the first place so
cant see that being approved.
 
Last edited:
RaM said:
One and a half Million as been estimated to put the Punch Bowl back as was.
A planning application as been put in as a way forward for Holliday lets to be
built on the site, likely the motive for knocking it down in the first place so
cant see that being approved.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's exactly what happened near us. Planning permission refused to knock the building down and build holiday flats, 'mysterious' fire.... and planning permission was still not granted, because the access was too dangerous.

ETA: It's now a cafe and microbrewery. At least it's still in context, as a watering hole.
 
PeteS said:
I'm intrigued by how the structure will be rebuilt. Surely current building regulations will apply which presumably rules out inbuilt wonkiness?
Click to expand...
I'm not an expert, but I'd say it would depend on the terminology of the statute. Generally speaking, a building has to be structurally sound and if it is, it doesn't matter if it's plumb and level (if that's how the new build is designed)
 
Oh, come on!
Let's have a bit of realpolitik in here.

Big firm destroyed property, using corrupt means. ("Cor, deary me - I've accidentally destroyed this building. Wot a disaster. Local council mates will obviously sort the paperwork out"etc.)

Destruction causes big publicity. National publicity. Repeated corrupt practices suddenly highlighted.

Local council, obviously not associated with dodgy planning and corruption, tells dodgy firm to make good.
Said dodgy firm says "Yeah, okay. We've got money for it" then declares bankruptcy.
Suddenly (!) a new firm buys up the property - with no debt or expectations attached - and 'realises' that "Cor, blimey, y'know what? We aren't legally obliged to rebuild the historic building wot was there!"
 
Stormkhan said:
Oh, come on!
Let's have a bit of realpolitik in here.

Big firm destroyed property, using corrupt means. ("Cor, deary me - I've accidentally destroyed this building. Wot a disaster. Local council mates will obviously sort the paperwork out"etc.)

Destruction causes big publicity. National publicity. Repeated corrupt practices suddenly highlighted.

Local council, obviously not associated with dodgy planning and corruption, tells dodgy firm to make good.
Said dodgy firm says "Yeah, okay. We've got money for it" then declares bankruptcy.
Suddenly (!) a new firm buys up the property - with no debt or expectations attached - and 'realises' that "Cor, blimey, y'know what? We aren't legally obliged to rebuild the historic building wot was there!"
Click to expand...
I would suspect though that an order will be placed on the site that any potential planning application will be restricted to reconstruction of the building as before. In effect that will make the site worthless. The cost of reconstruction to modern building specs will outweigh the value of the site.
 
Planning application restrictions can be so complex that, using very nebulous definitions, they are easily dodged.
Example:
In the centre of our seaside town, the local dump quaint pub had a massive car park. After a failed attempt to have a weekly market there, they sold up to developers. Part of the planning application was out of six luxury flats, four had to be for local residents leaving two for temporary second homes/holiday lets. Architects drew up and submitted the plans to the planning dept. These were approved.
Once built, it suddenly occurred to the building inspectors that none of them were of a size allowed for permanent residence. They were all too small to be legally occupied on a permanent basis. All six flats have been sold off to a local holiday let firm. Now, questions were asked about how the unsuitable sizes were passed by the planning dept. Said questions have been ignored.

Thus, I suspect that any future planning applications for the property to be developed might include a 'lip service' suggestion to build in a similar style, but they won't insist on any future owners rebuilding the pub.
 
I often wounded how much of this social housing attached to new
developments is actually used as such and how long it stays the
same or does it get sold on and become like the rest of the estate?
 
How to rebuild Crooked House — the wonkiest pub in the UK

After being burnt, bulldozed and embroiled in a national scandal, Britain’s “wonkiest” pub is set to rise from the rubble and be rebuilt brick by brick.

%2Fmethode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F3b02a063-e96d-4a6f-8059-24bcc3d7b7b2.jpg


Damage to the Crooked House will be put straight, so to speak, and heritage specialists have said it is “perfectly possible” to restore its 16-degree tilt as part of a £3 million renovation.

While drinkers across the country toasted plans for its restoration this week, The Times has consulted architects and structural engineers about how this could be achieved.

The most important thing for locals who frequent the “mind-bending boozer” is that the restored structure retains its slant, which makes marbles and beer bottles seemingly roll uphill on countertops and “leaves even teetotallers feeling tipsy”.

Recreating it is achievable, specialists on the Conservation Accreditation Register of Engineers (Care) have said. After casting their expert eyes over photographs and planning documents, both modern and medieval techniques are being pondered to recreate the lean caused during the Industrial Revolution when mining led to one side of the building sinking 1.2m (4ft).

Ed Morton, the chairman of Care, suggested using the existing foundations and cellar, which appear to have survived. These walls map the complete perimeter of the original building and, most importantly, are already set at the correct 16-degree tilt.

The structural engineer, who has specialised in the conservation of historic sites for more than 30 years, said this would provide the ideal template from which to rebuild the pub.

Etc.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...c?shareToken=c7de5b87a7ba7162c78bafa8bb9e378e

maximus otter
 
I wonder, though, if modern building regulations will allow for the slant.
I mean, it's one thing if the building tips and settles over time, but actually building in a slope? Sure, it lasted all those decades (before it was flattened) but might modern building inspectors look askance at any intended 'fault' as a safety issue?
 
Stormkhan said:
Planning application restrictions can be so complex that, using very nebulous definitions, they are easily dodged.
Example:
In the centre of our seaside town, the local dump quaint pub had a massive car park. After a failed attempt to have a weekly market there, they sold up to developers. Part of the planning application was out of six luxury flats, four had to be for local residents leaving two for temporary second homes/holiday lets. Architects drew up and submitted the plans to the planning dept. These were approved.
Once built, it suddenly occurred to the building inspectors that none of them were of a size allowed for permanent residence. They were all too small to be legally occupied on a permanent basis. All six flats have been sold off to a local holiday let firm. Now, questions were asked about how the unsuitable sizes were passed by the planning dept. Said questions have been ignored.

Thus, I suspect that any future planning applications for the property to be developed might include a 'lip service' suggestion to build in a similar style, but they won't insist on any future owners rebuilding the pub.
Click to expand...

I know which pub that is!! Had the misfortune of wandering in and sampling their awful food . The place we were sat at you could smell the drains. Food was horrible. Ok just for a drink . Think I bought some Tat at the market .
 
Stormkhan said:
I wonder, though, if modern building regulations will allow for the slant.
I mean, it's one thing if the building tips and settles over time, but actually building in a slope? Sure, it lasted all those decades (before it was flattened) but might modern building inspectors look askance at any intended 'fault' as a safety issue?
Click to expand...
If they can build a house upside down where I live......

2022-04-04.png
 
There are very old brick walls here where the bricks aren't laid horizontally as they would be today (by 'stepping' the concrete foundations as you move up the hill, and always keeping the concrete level), but that just follow the same angle as the slope of the land (red line).

I've seen at least 45° brickwork built this way.

These walls will still be there in a hundred years time (unless they're knocked down on purpose).
 

Attachments

  • wall.jpg
    wall.jpg
    11.2 KB · Views: 7
Stormkhan said:
New developments aren't obliged to include social housing. They might be expected to include so-called 'affordable' housing, which is not the same thing. I imagine that any 'discount' houses will be bought up to rent out.
Click to expand...
Cases get reported where the developer agrees with the local authority to buy themselves out of the planning requirement to build affordable and or social housing. I have to laugh at the prices quoted for so called affordable housing - most in our neck of the woods start at £150k!
 
PeteS said:
Cases get reported where the developer agrees with the local authority to buy themselves out of the planning requirement to build affordable and or social housing. I have to laugh at the prices quoted for so called affordable housing - most in our neck of the woods start at £150k!
Click to expand...
I thought that if there are going to be more than 10 or maybe 15 houses, then they had to allow a certain percentage for 'affordable' housing.
 
Because of course they would. :roll:
"What was the point of us demolishing the place if we're going to be reconstructing it?"
 
They can appeal an error in the process of prosecution.
Get out of it by a technicality.
 
Stormkhan said:
They can appeal an error in the process of prosecution.
Get out of it by a technicality.
Click to expand...
I suspect that even if they get out of it on a technicality the local authority could still put very restrictive planning conditions on any future application. Rebuilding as before is in practical terms a none starter and I doubt it will ever get done. Could the land be confiscated under the proceeds of crime act although now really valueless?
 
The local council probably won't put in too many future restrictions, excusing this by refusing to make the land worthless. Land always has value - low though this may be, it's still an 'investment opportunity'. This land, I'm sure, will now by classed as brownfield. The original criminals owners will change their name and registered board of directors, buy up this rather convenient brownfield land and carry on as before.
I'm pretty sure the council want to let the whole situation die down. After all, it brought the whole 'accidental' or 'unknown criminal' demolition scandals to light.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top