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Then again, there are those who can separate personal and professional life. One can always influence the other but it's a silly assumption.
A female police officer investigates a rape - "Of course, the investigation was influenced because of the officer being a woman." If there was evidence of undue influence then fair enough.

It boils down to so much assumption - "You would say that, wouldn't you?"
I have personally looked after hundreds of dying people, striving to treat them with the compassion and dignity I'd expect for myself, and been with many as they drew their last breaths, and never shed a tear over even one of them. It was work.
 
Yes, it speaks to the possibility of compartmentalising your life.
Some people have to do it and some don't.

Perhaps some think they can when they can't, or don't even see the need to.
A person who begins taking an interest in the supernatural only after a traumatic bereavement can't compartmentalise. They are not neutral or objective.
 
At the least, I'd expect that Maurice was fond of the girls and maybe overlooked any faked mischief that might possibly have occurred. It's very sad - I imagine he would've been looking to show them the affection and indulgence he no longer could towards his daughter.
 
Some people have to do it and some don't.

Perhaps some think they can when they can't, or don't even see the need to.
A person who begins taking an interest in the supernatural only after a traumatic bereavement can't compartmentalise. They are not neutral or objective.
So an engineer/inventor who was taken of the beaches at Dunkirk then worked for military intelligence cannot compartmentalise but you can? Perhaps you are not being neutral or objective?
 
Perhaps not in Maurice's case, but it is possible to like the subject of an investigation - to want the best for them - and be objective in investigating their case. Finding a solution is part of that care.
How many people come into paranormal investigations after an experience with it?
"I thought I saw my deceased mother. Since then I've had an interest in ghosts" disqualifies you from the field? Surely, the reverse is also meaningless - "I think all paranormal stuff is absolute guff so I'm qualified to investigate it"?
Regardless of past experience or reasons for interest, any investigation needs to be approached with objectivity. This benefits believers as they can sort the wheat from the chaff, and it benefits the sceptics for the same.
Conan Doyle, Rudyard Kipling, Houdini ... they all came from differing motives to investigate the paranormal but their credibility differed from the stance they took at the outset.
 
So an engineer/inventor who was taken of the beaches at Dunkirk then worked for military intelligence cannot compartmentalise but you can? Perhaps you are not being neutral or objective?
:chuckle:
 
Then again, there are those who can separate personal and professional life. One can always influence the other but it's a silly assumption.
A female police officer investigates a rape - "Of course, the investigation was influenced because of the officer being a woman." If there was evidence of undue influence then fair enough.

It boils down to so much assumption - "You would say that, wouldn't you?"
If the female police officer had previously been raped, then there may well be an unconscious influence. Although I would hope that in professional cases like this, training would take over to prevent any kind of bias.

However, in cases of the paranormal, I'm not sure that there is any kind of training for investigation that could prevent unconscious unfluence coming to bear.
 
If the female police officer had previously been raped, then there may well be an unconscious influence. Although I would hope that in professional cases like this, training would take over to prevent any kind of bias.

However, in cases of the paranormal, I'm not sure that there is any kind of training for investigation that could prevent unconscious unfluence coming to bear.
That's exactly the point I was coming to. The ability of (say) hospital staff to deal with the deaths of patients is down to their their training. They have to learn not to take others' issues and grief to heart. If they do, they can discuss it at their regular Supervision meeting with their manager.
 
So an engineer/inventor who was taken of the beaches at Dunkirk then worked for military intelligence cannot compartmentalise but you can? Perhaps you are not being neutral or objective?

I don't iunderstand. There are other scenarios here aren't there? Just of the top of my head, maybe he became overloaded with trauma and thenceforth couldn't? I think/believe that the loss of a child is a unique kind of pain - childfree by choice so I may be projecting - at least for some people. So maybe that broke through for him?

I and others can and do make the divide however.

I don't see it as implying anything defective that people can or can't, but is this why it seems to touch you closely @titch? *quiet appropriate hug* .
 
I am an expert compartmentaliser. I mean, almost psychopathically good. But there are things from my past that I know affect the way I react to things - so it doesn't work for everything.
It's about being aware though, knowing that you're going to deal with (dreaded word) triggers.
You can deal with stuff if you have a strategy. In some jobs, training does that.
 
This is another thread where the diversions are more interesting than the actual subject. :chuckle:
Perhaps.
But if you might have made your mind up on the subject, others might have not. The diversion might be amusing to you but hardly enlightening to others.
 
Perhaps.
But if you might have made your mind up on the subject, others might have not. The diversion might be amusing to you but hardly enlightening to others.
I've forgotten what we were on about now.
Can't have been important.
 
I've forgotten what we were on about now.
Can't have been important.
I got so used to dealing with corpses (aka Mary, Bill etc that I'd been chatting with only a day or two earlier). We just got used to it in the end sad to say. We braced ourselves to be sensitive to the relatives with our 7 stages of grief training but it hit us hard as well. We met them in the first stage which is denial, then it's anger which I only had to help someone with once, the last one's acceptance. Maurice would have still been going through this because of the loss of his own daughter while he was at Enfield. I think that's what Escargot was saying Stormkhan.
 
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I am an expert compartmentaliser. I mean, almost psychopathically good. But there are things from my past that I know affect the way I react to things - so it doesn't work for everything.
I've come to the conclusion after decades of considering the issue that females are "better" at this compartment thing than males. I've still not come to any conclusion whether this is a good or bad thing.:chuckle: (Thread drift where's Max when you need him.)
 
Well, the Enfield Haunting play wasn't too bad... What it isn't is a scare-fest. It takes place over 24 after the haunting has well established itself. The opening with Mrs Hodgson and her neighbour has them recount much of what has already gone on. The cast is simplified - only one brother, and Guy Lyon Playfair is having a night off. With only a few ghostly scenes, the play focuses on Maurice Grosse. He's portrayed as a bit doddery, but to be honest I couldn't tell if it was always intentional or the actor simply was trying to remember his lines! This is problematic when he has long stretches with him and just one other actor. Also, I agree with the first half of this criticism left of their FB page:
We went to see it and once I got over the feeling that Catherine Tate was going to interupt the frankly over-controlling males and out-of-control family and shout "here's one for you, boy", "am I bothered?" and "what a f***ing liberty!" it was kind of OK, if a little underwhelming on the script writing and acting front. I would have been happier if it was playing outside of London as the vastly inflated ticket price (and the crippling theatre seats) didn't really warrant the experience.

 
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Maurice Grosse is interviewed in this episode of the short but intriguing 1990 BBC documentary "Do You Believe in..." that is available on BBC Sounds:

"People describe their experiences of ghostly encounters and author Andrew Green describes how he first became interested in the subject. Paranormal investigator Maurice Grosse, talks about his involvement in the Enfield Poltergeist case. This is a programme from the BBC World Service Archive and was originally broadcast in 1999"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p03ghl5b

Have to say he doesn't come across as a detached, objective researcher but rather a fervent believer in there being both a poltergeist and an "interfering spirit" of the man who died in the house and that in no way could the girls have been responsible. Also, hate to say it but he also sounded both naive and and emotionally attached to this case to the point where I don't feel he wanted to see or hear anything that would challenge his beliefs. He also believes that having caught noises and voices on cassette tape is some sort of irrefutable evidence whereas anyone who like me lived through the era of cassette tapes will know how they could be edited and have additional material added to them at a later date
 
. He also believes that having caught noises and voices on cassette tape is some sort of irrefutable evidence whereas anyone who like me lived through the era of cassette tapes will know how they could be edited and have additional material added to them at a later date
And also how they could be such bad quality that previous recordings and tape artifact noise could bleed through recordings.

I may sound bitter, but I had an entire recording of the Stranglers 'Black and White' album ruined by recording from the radio (John Peel, when he'd play an album in its entirety) onto a cassette that had previously been used to record other music. The bleedthrough created an avant-guard musical experience that I'm pretty sure the Stranglers never intended.
 
And also how they could be such bad quality that previous recordings and tape artifact noise could bleed through recordings.

I may sound bitter, but I had an entire recording of the Stranglers 'Black and White' album ruined by recording from the radio (John Peel, when he'd play an album in its entirety) onto a cassette that had previously been used to record other music. The bleedthrough created an avant-guard musical experience that I'm pretty sure the Stranglers never intended.
I had that happen once. It was 'metal tape', really only designed for recording once.
 
Is there a case, though, for fervent belief being a productive atmosphere regarding manifestations of all kinds? Maybe this was necessary for anything unusual to actually happen; in some locations, it might even be the direct and initial cause...
 
Is there a case, though, for fervent belief being a productive atmosphere regarding manifestations of all kinds? Maybe this was necessary for anything unusual to actually happen; in some locations, it might even be the direct and initial cause...
There's been experiments on thought form manifestations, the most famous being Phillip deliberately created to 'see what happens'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_experiment
 
Is there a case, though, for fervent belief being a productive atmosphere regarding manifestations of all kinds? Maybe this was necessary for anything unusual to actually happen; in some locations, it might even be the direct and initial cause...
It is certainly true that before Grosse arrived on the scene there was poltergeist activity and that he can be heard on the tapes pretty much demanding that 'it' talk to him
 
Interesting blog post and comments;

"The Enfield Haunting also differs from more traditional horror movies in maintaining a fortean ambiguity as to what is actually going on. While some of the events do seem to be genuinely paranormal, others appear to be deliberate attention-seeking, and still others may be the involuntary result of emotional or behavioural problems, like a kind of super-Tourette syndrome. Or maybe it’s a mixture of all three.

https://forteana-blog.blogspot.com/search/label/hauntings

From the comments:

Andrew May said...
I don't really know enough to say. In the article by Guy Lyon Playfair that I read, he suggests that it may be an involuntary psychological condition somewhat like Tourette Syndrome. Although that wasn't mentioned explicitly in the TV series, it was clearly hinted at (e.g. the girl spouting obscenities in a deep masculine voice).

Poltergeists as an extreme and involuntary psychokinetic form of Tourette's resonates with me, but is it the child or the poltergeist that has Tourettes?
 
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