The Enfield Poltergeist

[Mouldy13]

Poltergeists as an extreme and involuntary psychokinetic form of Tourette's resonates with me, but is it the child or the poltergeist that has Tourettes?

Colin Wilson who believed that polts were actual discarnate entities decribed them as "of relatively low intelligence with the same sense of humour one would expect from adolescent boys"

"ooh look at me I'm saying f**k and c**t!!"

 

[Steven]

Did Wilson not make the obvious connection (in regard to his remark) that the adolescents involved - not any supposed poltergeists - created the verbal phenomena? Even in the Gef case, there's a parallel: though this admittedly was not a poltergeist event, it's clear that the reported utterances of 'Gef' read just like echoes of things a child had often heard adults saying; that doesn't seem a coincidence to me.

 

[catseye]

Did Wilson not make the obvious connection (in regard to his remark) that the adolescents involved - not any supposed poltergeists - created the verbal phenomena? Even in the Gef case, there's a parallel: though this admittedly was not a poltergeist event, it's clear that the reported utterances of 'Gef' read just like echoes of things a child had often heard adults saying; that doesn't seem a coincidence to me.

Yes, I've often thought it odd that investigators tie themselves in knots in cases like this to explain why a poltergeist might communicate like a dirty-minded adolescent, when the alleged 'focus' is an adolescent...

And I remember being not much older than Janet and having a small breakdown during which I screamed hysterically, but a part of my mind remained detached and wondering why I was making that noise and how much longer it would go on for. I knew it was me screaming, but I seemed to hear it from another part of my brain. I wonder whether this kind of detachment could result in a child 'speaking with another voice', almost 'letting out' emotion from a part of the brain.

 

[brownmane]

And I remember being not much older than Janet and having a small breakdown during which I screamed hysterically, but a part of my mind remained detached and wondering why I was making that noise and how much longer it would go on for. I knew it was me screaming, but I seemed to hear it from another part of my brain. I wonder whether this kind of detachment could result in a child 'speaking with another voice', almost 'letting out' emotion from a part of the brain.

The detachment/disassociation is a coping mechanism. Children have fewer coping mechanisms simply due to inexperience.

Disassociation is one coping mechanism which children resort to in order to protect themselves (their minds) from severe trauma. Which is where Disassociative Identity Disorder originates from (this is a controversial diagnosis in psychiatry).

I'm not saying that there is any trauma involved in poltergeist incidents, only that children can do this fairly easily, as catseye's example shows. And they may do it unconsciously.

 

[Tempest63]

Colin Wilson who believed that polts were actual discarnate entities decribed them as "of relatively low intelligence with the same sense of humour one would expect from adolescent boys"

There was a boy at School who wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, he got caught having a J Arthur over the lingerie pages of his mums Kay’s catalogue.

I wonder if he will come back as a poltergeist?

 

[Stormkhan]

I'm not saying that there is any trauma involved in poltergeist incidents, only that children can do this fairly easily, as catseye's example shows. And they may do it unconsciously.

It might be said that any long-term poltergeist activity could cause trauma in itself. so this might explain why being caught out happens after some time of the activity; it's the 'victims' response, not only to the expectations of the investigators but their own fear.
Sure, there is the possibility of fakery in any case. But once fakery is discovered, it seems most investigators lose interest - even though they can't explain any early phenomena.

 

[Steven]

Yeah, that has echoes of lab experiments/tests for ESP & the like: as in most activities, long endurance and, consequently, waning enthusiasm leads to increasingly poorer results. So maybe that - essentially merely human nature - shouldn't lead to a dismissal of a phenomena's authenticity.

 

[Swifty]

There was a boy at School who wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, he got caught having a J Arthur over the lingerie pages of his mums Kay’s catalogue.

I wonder if he will come back as a poltergeist?

I went to school with a lad who became infamous for hiding 'girlie' porno mags on top of our school cistern in the boys toilets. We only found out about this because he stood on the toilet bowl one day, slipped and his foot became stuck in the U bend of the toilet bowl so they had to call the fire engine out to release him .. his magazines sprawled across the cubicle floor. (years later me and him went on a school ski trip and I found him with one of his skis snapped and sticking into his leg so they had to airlift him off .. he's alright these days and looks to have a Mrs and two kids).

ANway .......... The Enfield Poltergeist

 

[Steven]

That is a brilliant example of extreme public embarrassment.

 

[brownmane]

It might be said that any long-term poltergeist activity could cause trauma in itself. so this might explain why being caught out happens after some time of the activity; it's the 'victims' response, not only to the expectations of the investigators but their own fear.
Sure, there is the possibility of fakery in any case. But once fakery is discovered, it seems most investigators lose interest - even though they can't explain any early phenomena.

Yeah, that has echoes of lab experiments/tests for ESP & the like: as in most activities, long endurance and, consequently, waning enthusiasm leads to increasingly poorer results. So maybe that - essentially merely human nature - shouldn't lead to a dismissal of a phenomena's authenticity.

I'm not sure if you thought my comment about dissociative states, particularly in children, would prove that poltergeist activity was fake. I was only saying that this may be a factor in poltergeist activity.

 

[PeteS]

I'm not sure if you thought my comment about dissociative states, particularly in children, would prove that poltergeist activity was fake. I was only saying that this may be a factor in poltergeist activity.

I think your theory will be correct in some reported cases. Friend's then 13 year old daughter had such an episode as C has described one night a few years ago. It terrified her parents and the girl had to be sedated by a doctor at A&E. She remembered the event in detail but said she had no idea why it happened. At that age she was surprisingly well balanced and happy. Brain scans etc revealed nothing and the incident was never repeated.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

I went to school with a lad who became infamous for hiding 'girlie' porno mags on top of our school cistern in the boys toilets. We only found out about this because he stood on the toilet bowl one day, slipped and his foot became stuck in the U bend of the toilet bowl so they had to call the fire engine out to release him .. his magazines sprawled across the cubicle floor. (years later me and him went on a school ski trip and I found him with one of his skis snapped and sticking into his leg so they had to airlift him off .. he's alright these days and looks to have a Mrs and two kids).

ANway .......... The Enfield Poltergeist

Not quite on the same level, but I worked with a hotel porter who used to hide alcohol in the cistern of the staff toilet and we couldn't work out how he was getting progressively p*ssed during his shifts. Lovely old chap otherwise.

Back to Enfield.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Yes, I've often thought it odd that investigators tie themselves in knots in cases like this to explain why a poltergeist might communicate like a dirty-minded adolescent, when the alleged 'focus' is an adolescent...

And I remember being not much older than Janet and having a small breakdown during which I screamed hysterically, but a part of my mind remained detached and wondering why I was making that noise and how much longer it would go on for. I knew it was me screaming, but I seemed to hear it from another part of my brain. I wonder whether this kind of detachment could result in a child 'speaking with another voice', almost 'letting out' emotion from a part of the brain.

Think you may have hit the nail on the head.

In the Enfield case the mother wasn't the separated from the father? That could be trauma enough. Also the poltergeist voice was apparently a bit obsessed with Maraget or Janet (or both) being on their periods (sorry, will need to go back and check which one) right at a time when starting puberty would be something of an emotional rollercoaster.

I've personally always been openminded about the initial poltergeist activity but the later stuff and especially the voices either came from the girls or was a hoax on the part of the journalists to keep the front page story going or both. Ultimately, a hidden microphone is more likely than the spirits of the dead communicating through a young girl and then the girls themselves may have begun to mimic this voice. All I do know is that in the one bit of film footage I have seen you can clearly see Janet's throat moving (despite her tilting her chin down etc.) and so those voices were coming from her and her alone.

 

[Swifty]

I think your theory will be correct in some reported cases. Friend's then 13 year old daughter had such an episode as C has described one night a few years ago. It terrified her parents and the girl had to be sedated by a doctor at A&E. She remembered the event in detail but said she had no idea why it happened. At that age she was surprisingly well balanced and happy. Brain scans etc revealed nothing and the incident was never repeated.

Because she wasn't possessed but instead attention seeking?. That seems more likely to me. I wasn't there but possession by a demonic overlord or a 13 year old looking for attention, no brain scan anomaly's and the incident was never repeated? .. I'm going with the later conclusion.

I attended a first aid shout a few years ago when we had to deal with a girl about that age who was having a fit on the floor. She was punching the floor so I put my fist in between her fist and the floor so she wouldn't injure herself. The paramedics turned up with one of them assessing the situation with "Well, if she is having a fit, that's the most co ordinated one I've ever seen.". We all groaned, she stood up and dusted herself down and wandered off perfectly fine.

@escargot , fake first aid calls are something we also have to sometimes put up with.

 

[catseye]

Because she wasn't possessed but instead attention seeking?. That seems more likely to me. I wasn't there but possession by a demonic overlord or a 13 year old looking for attention, no brain scan anomaly's and the incident was never repeated? .. I'm going with the later conclusion.

I attended a first aid shout a few years ago when we had to deal with a girl about that age who was having a fit on the floor. She was punching the floor so I put my fist in between her fist and the floor so she wouldn't injure herself. The paramedics turned up with one of them assessing the situation with "Well, if she is having a fit, that's the most co ordinated one I've ever seen.". We all groaned, she stood up and dusted herself down and wandered off perfectly fine.

@escargot , fake first aid calls are something we also have to sometimes put up with.

Having been a 13 year old girl, I can testify that people severely under estimate what a teenage girl will do for attention. Particularly if she is either neurodivergent or feels that she is being overlooked in favour of another family member.

 

[JamesWhitehead]

We all groaned, she stood up and dusted herself down and wandered off perfectly fine.

The pseudo-fit is well-known to those who work with Special Needs children - probably some of those adults, also.

Pupils who observe real fits on a more-or-less daily basis are prone to mimic them, to receive equal attention.

I was advised that one such lad would quickly revive, when offered a cup of tea. It worked.

 

[PeteS]

Because she wasn't possessed but instead attention seeking?. That seems more likely to me. I wasn't there but possession by a demonic overlord or a 13 year old looking for attention, no brain scan anomaly's and the incident was never repeated? .. I'm going with the later conclusion.

I attended a first aid shout a few years ago when we had to deal with a girl about that age who was having a fit on the floor. She was punching the floor so I put my fist in between her fist and the floor so she wouldn't injure herself. The paramedics turned up with one of them assessing the situation with "Well, if she is having a fit, that's the most co ordinated one I've ever seen.". We all groaned, she stood up and dusted herself down and wandered off perfectly fine.

@escargot , fake first aid calls are something we also have to sometimes put up with.

I don't think it was attention seeking because the incident was completely out of character and she got plenty of attention from parents anyway but not spoiled. She was the most together teens I'd ever come across and no I wouldn't have put it down to any paranormal event nor was there any suggestion by anyone else. Could have been a severe urinal infection of course which does make some go dolally. Just one of those weird inexplicable events.

 

[catseye]

I don't think it was attention seeking because the incident was completely out of character and she got plenty of attention from parents anyway but not spoiled. She was the most together teens I'd ever come across and no I wouldn't have put it down to any paranormal event nor was there any suggestion by anyone else. Could have been a severe urinal infection of course which does make some go dolally. Just one of those weird inexplicable events.

You might have thought that she got plenty of attention from parents, but she may have perceived things differently.

 

[PeteS]

You might have thought that she got plenty of attention from parents, but she may have perceived things differently.

I don't think so but who knows what goes on in the mind of a teenager?

 

[catseye]

I don't think so but who knows what goes on in the mind of a teenager?

Anyone who's ever been one?

 

[Stormkhan]

Ultimately the psychology of teens doesn't change but the pressures, values and stresses do.
'In my day' I had all the usual teen anxiety - along with personal familial stresses - but not the factors of social media acceptance, commercial expectation etc.
I recently watched with mild interest some minor social media drama concerning a young content creator. They had issues - like us all - but they dropped out of college because it was expensive to study and there was no guarantee of employment after graduation. When did this become rare?