The Erosion of Christianity in Britain

[TheQuixote]

I can't think of a single Muslim (or Jew or Hindu) that I have known that has objected to giving or receiving Christmas cards.

Same here. The only people I have encountered that were vehemently against the whole trappings of Christmas (cards, presents etc.) were a few Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Xanatico]

"when she worked in a call centre they weren't allowed to say "bear with me" in case there was a preagnant woman at the other end - I kid ye not!]."

What about if the person at the other end had been mauled by bear?

 

[Peripart]

Or was a naturist?

 

[Mal_Adjusted]

re cards at this time of year

seems there's 3 sets of people:

Christians

other religious types

secularists

amongst people of the same type one would expect people to send appropriate cards -

ie secularists wouldn't send "happy christmas" cards,

pagans would opt for something celebrating yule / saturnalia /winter sostice / mithras day or whatever

other religions may not send anything (ie jewish people i know don't send anything)

and christians would send each other proper christian cards.

only problem arises when people from the different groups send cards to eachother.

eg i get very christian religious cards from the couple of christians I know, which pisses me off, and I expect they get pissed off if I send them anti-religious cards.

for such exchanges surely it is most appropriate to use a non-specific "seasons greetings" type card without explicit religious iconography or messages. there's plenty of (mainly pagan originated) images one can use including holly, ivy, mistletoe, conifers, santa and reindeer, bells and general feelgood stuff.

I suppose it all depends on what people want the card to convey - the belief of the sender or a more general message of good will.

 

[Peripart]

I think I know what you mean by "very christian religious cards", but is anyone in this country actually upset by any use of the phrase "Merry Christmas", on a card or elsewhere? Surely that is about as innocuous as it gets, and you'd really have to want to take offence to find that objectionable.

Or am I (a pretty unreligious person) completely wide of the mark?

 

[Kondoru]

Well, my muslim friends are first to say it

 

[Beakmoo]

I think I know what you mean by "very christian religious cards", but is anyone in this country actually upset by any use of the phrase "Merry Christmas", on a card or elsewhere? Surely that is about as innocuous as it gets, and you'd really have to want to take offence to find that objectionable.

Or am I (a pretty unreligious person) completely wide of the mark?

I get cards every year from Christians at work, they know I'm not of their faith (to put it mildly) but they still send a card with a religious picture on it (fair enough they can be very attractive) and with a handwritten message like "God bless" or "may you have a blessed Christmas" which I'm afraid makes me want to puke. These cards are generally consigned to the compost heap pretty early on.
If I buy a card for someone, whether it's a birthday or any other type, I choose one that I think the recipient will like, not something I like and who gives a stuff whether they do. If it's someone with no sense of humour I'll send a serious one, if it's someone who likes art I'll send an arty one etc, if religion is involved and they have a different belief system to me then I'll send a neutral one. It would be like sending a Darwin fish card to a born again Christian, I wouldn't dream of doing it, it's just thoughtless and rude.

 

[Min Bannister]

Christians send out Christmas cards with religious scenes because it is Christmas and that is what Christmas is about.

 

[ghostdog19]

It would be like sending a Darwin fish card to a born again Christian, I wouldn't dream of doing it, it's just thoughtless and rude.

The Jesus/Darwin fish war .... how embarrassing. We have evolved into people who debate through bumper stickers, that's the crying shame of it. Through BUMPER STICKERS no less! :lol: I have an idea for an Jesus/Darwin fish war bumper sticker to end all Jesus/Darwin fish bumper stickers... An ichthys alongside a Darwin fish, with an amoeba telling them both to "get a room."

 

[Beakmoo]

Christians send out Christmas cards with religious scenes because it is Christmas and that is what Christmas is about.

Now that's the crux of the matter in a nutshell. It isn't what it's all about unless you're a Christian. That particular holiday (for want of a better word) is to do with the winter solstice, nothing to do with the baby Jesus and all that, unless you happen to be of that persuasion.

 

[witchflame]

Hahahaha! like it, like it! (referring to the darwin fish/ 'jesus' fish argument)
In a nutshell, Christmas is all a load of godbothering Gobsh*te anyway.
I mean... Midnight Mass!! You should be out getting trollied, vomiting and rolling around in a pool of your own wee!

 

[Min Bannister]

Now that's the crux of the matter in a nutshell. It isn't what it's all about unless you're a Christian. That particular holiday (for want of a better word) is to do with the winter solstice, nothing to do with the baby Jesus and all that, unless you happen to be of that persuasion.

But one of the interesting things about getting Christmas cards is that you find out more about the person sending them. For example my parents always used to get a card that was typed. I asked about this one year and was told that their son had died and ever since they had typed the cards, just as a sort of wee reminder. Other people may always send cards from a particular charity, you will usually discover they have a particular reason for supporting that charity. Others may send religious ones, for them it is an important occasion and they may like to remind people why it is important for them. I seriously doubt they are doing it to be crass or force their religion down your throat. If they are, it is time to get new friends.

Personally, I usually attempt to handmake at least some of my cards. From which people may discover that I like playing with glitter and glue.

 

[Beakmoo]

It's lovely to get handmade cards I keep meaning to do that too. Ideally I would only get cards from friends and family, but my work colleagues insist on sending them too, even though I haven't sent any since about 1985, and my office is positively knee deep in born again fundy types, goodness knows why.

 

[rynner2]

The Jesus/Darwin fish war .... how embarrassing. We have evolved into people who debate through bumper stickers, that's the crying shame of it. Through BUMPER STICKERS no less! :lol:

This one flew right under my radar. Anyone care to explain, or post a link? :?

 

[witchflame]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

Have a look at this then scroll to the bottom and youll see what we mean. :heh:

 

[rynner2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

Have a look at this then scroll to the bottom and youll see what we mean. :heh:

Thanks for that!

Thank goodness we've evolved past bumper stickers and now use internet message boards, the last word in sensible, rational debate.....

 

[Min Bannister]

It's lovely to get handmade cards I keep meaning to do that too. Ideally I would only get cards from friends and family, but my work colleagues insist on sending them too, even though I haven't sent any since about 1985, and my office is positively knee deep in born again fundy types, goodness knows why.

Okay, when you put it like that I suppose it could get a bit much..

Do they call you Beakeneezer Scrooge?

 

[Beakmoo]

They call me Ma Bumhug. I do a mean Spoonerism.

 

[rynner2]

They call me Ma Bumhug. I do a mean Spoonerism.

I like it!

I shall use it on all three of my Xmas cards this year!




(BTW, Beak, where's yer av?)

 

[ghostdog19]

Imagine now the row if Christians decided they were offended by the names of the days of the week. Consider that Christmas Eve and Christmas day just being two days out of the 365.242199 polytheistic days of the year each day taking it's name from a seven day week (then there's Easter etc, but since this is regarding Christmas...).

You have Mani being a Germanic Moon God, Tyr being a Nordic God, Woden being a Germanic God, Thor...needs no introduction, Freyja being a Germanic Goddess, Saturn being a Roman God, and Sol (Sunday used to be called the Lord's Day by Christians, it was in a letter to Pagans that it was referred to as Sunday so the Pagans would know what the Christians were on about, and thus the name stuck).

I mean, imagine. If having Christmas called "Christmas" ruffles feathers for non believers, imagine what a kick in the eye it must be for Christians to have to say the word "Monday" or even "Sunday" instead of "the Lord's day" through gritted teeth. I'm fairly certain it's safe to say they have no such issue with it on the whole. Not as much as some non-Christians have with "Christmas".

Honestly.

 

[Mal_Adjusted]

seems there are two arguments here.

there are those banging on about other people being "offended"

and others talking about what they feel is appropriate.

I'll stick with discussing what is appropriate.

(oh an analogy:

being appropriate is when you bother to find out other people's birthdays and send them a card wishing them a happy birthday on that day.

being inappropriate is deciding that one specific day of the year is when you send everyone you know a birthday card whether it's their birthday or not.

the latter does not cause offence but i would deem it inappropriate.)

 

[ghostdog19]

The article said that it was in an effort not to 'offend'.

 

[hokum6]

If anyone really gets offended when they receive a religious greeting card you can always get your own back by explaining how Biblical scholars don't believe that Jesus was born in December and that his birthday was more likely in September, or around that time, and that Christmas is actually a pagan festival. It works a treat.

 

[ghostdog19]

Christmas is actually a pagan festival.

Christmas isn't actually a pagan festival.

Think bomb alert: can you see what I did there?

 

[Timble2]

Christmas is actually a pagan festival.

Christmas isn't actually a pagan festival.

Think bomb alert: can you see what I did there?

Christmas isn't, but Yule and Saturnalia and several others around that time of year that Christianity hijacked are...pedant

 

[ghostdog19]

pedant

tee hee hee. :lol:

Did you know that the word "Saturnalia" had it's meaning changed to "orgy". Very naughty. :no-no: Christianity was the Bush administration of its day...
hey... wait a minute! :shock:

 

[Mal_Adjusted]

Santa goes green in Wales

By JENNA TOWLER
November 21, 2006

A WELSH town will celebrate an old-school Christmas when Santa ditches his Coca-Cola inspired red suit in favour of traditional pagan green.

Llangollen will recapture ancient Welsh Celtic traditions at its upcoming Christmas Festival instead of going along with the Coca-Cola inspired image of Santa Clause decked all in red.

Father Christmas – known in Wales as Sion Corn - will parade through the town in his true colour of green as he heads towards his grotto in the town library on December 2.

Ian Parry, Llangollen's town clerk, said the town is trying to get back to its roots.

“We are trying to highlight some traditional things that should happen in a Welsh Christmas. Getting Santa back into green is just one of them.”

Other traditions being resurrected include a day of feasting on cheese on toast, predicting the future using treacle toffee or Taffy shapes and an appearance by the lucky pagan Grey Mare or Mari Llwyd.

The town will also be hosting a live Nativity, however, no divine births are scheduled.

Festival organiser Sarah Meade said: “Everything about the Festive period is a hotch potch of ancient pagan traditions and more modern marketing practices all spun together under the Christian celebration of the birth of Christ.

“It’s only when you start looking a little deeper into what makes the Christmas we know and love so well that this starts to become apparent.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006540169,00.html

 

[James_H]

is there any truth in the notion that coca-cola made santa go red? It seems highly dubious to me.

 

[Mythopoeika]

is there any truth in the notion that coca-cola made santa go red?

Yes.

 

[James_H]

Any more you can add to that?