Good grief no. If she wants to asphyxiate herself with Tippex fumes that's more than fine by me. The more time she spends in pointless activities like that the less time she has to sign petitions against gay rights or whatever she usually gets up to.Kondoru said:Didnt you complain?
DeeDeeTee said:Perhaps we are taking a too modern slant on why Christian festivals have 'hijacked' pagan festivals and usurped them.
The morals of the human race would have been but little changed, a little more virile perhaps, a little less charitable, but only a shade different. The erudite theology taught by the mysteries would obviously have shown a laudable respect for science, but as its dogmas were based upon a false physics it would apparently have insure the persistence of an infinity of errors. Astronomy would not be lacking, but astrology would have been unassailable, while the heavens would still be revolving around the earth to accord with its doctrines. The greatest danger, would have been that the Caesars would have established a theocratic absolutism supported by the Oriental ideas of the divinity of kings. The union of throne and altar would have been inseparable, and Europe would never have known the invigorating struggle between church and state. But on the other hand the discipline of Mithraism, so productive of individual energy, and the democratic organization of its societies in which senators and slaves rubbed elbows, contain a germ of liberty. We might dwell at some length on these contrasting possibilities, but it is hard to find a mental pastime less profitable than the attempt to remake history and to conjecture on what might have been had events proved otherwise.
indeed. It certainly sounds good. Do you reckon that had Franz Cumot's scenario been the case Dawkins would have written a book about it, and if so, how do you reckon it would have differed to his present take on religion? (A possible given that he'd condemn it, but bearing in mind altar and throne (nice term), but in the instance of Mithras, tremendous liberty).ramonmercado said:Merry Mithras,hic!
LOL. I think you're right.ramonmercado said:I think to RD , any god will do.
Now that sounds like one for the library. Nice. Cheers for the heads upramonmercado said:Another good author for the Mithras AH would be S.M. Stirling. He wrote The Peshawar Lancers set in an Eartth which was bombard by bits of comets in 1878. The Empire survives in India, but the racial bars are gone. The RC & Anglican Churchs have united and their theologians are discussing if Vishnu is an aspect of Jesus.
"Romani ite domum" and all that. But then where would we be without their underfloor heating and straight roads and plumbing? (joke)
ramonmercado said:You can find more info at: http://www.smstirling.com/
The Draka series is excellent as is Dies the Fire. Wicca figures as a religion in DTF, not the nutty sort, this type is of Celtic origins, esp Irish.
Attempts to move Christian traditions to the "margins" of British life have "gone far enough", an MP has said.
Mark Pritchard said "Christianophobia" of the "politically correct brigade" also ran the risk of Christianity being hijacked by extremist parties.
The Tory MP said he did not want to criticise people of other faiths, but wanted to "recognise and protect the Christian tradition of this nation".
He has called a Westminster debate on Christianophobia for Wednesday.
lupinwick said:Attempts to move Christian traditions to the "margins" of British life have "gone far enough", an MP has said.
Mark Pritchard said "Christianophobia" of the "politically correct brigade" also ran the risk of Christianity being hijacked by extremist parties.
The Tory MP said he did not want to criticise people of other faiths, but wanted to "recognise and protect the Christian tradition of this nation".
He has called a Westminster debate on Christianophobia for Wednesday.
Source
Wotan, or Woden's Day. Odin was Norse, Wotan, or Woden, are the Teutonic and Anglo-Saxon varieties.jimv1 said:...
Odin's Day?
No, first they came in, bearing gifts, then they weaselled their way in to everybody's good books, then they systematically colonized some beliefs, leaving vestigial traces, whilst wiping out the ones they couldn't adapt, or exact a tithe out of.rjmrjmrjm said:Which inadventatly adds weight to the idea that Christianity didn't enter Britain all guns blazing and systematically wipe paganism off the map.
Christmas is axed in Oxford
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/nov/02/chris ... -christian
The Observer, Sunday November 2 2008
Council leaders in Oxford have decided to ban the word Christmas from this year's festive celebrations to make them more 'inclusive'. But the decision to rename the series of events the 'Winter Light Festival' has been criticised by religious leaders and locals said it was 'ludicrous'.
Sabir Hussain Mirza, chairman of the Muslim Council of Oxford, said: 'This is the one occasion which everyone looks forward to in the year. Christians, Muslims and other religions all look forward to Christmas. I'm angry and very, very disappointed. Christmas is special and we shouldn't ignore it.
'Christian people should be offended and 99 per cent of people will be against this. Christmas is part of being British.'
Rabbi Eli Bracknell, who teaches at the Jewish Educational Centre, said: 'It's important to maintain a traditional British Christmas. Anything that waters down traditional culture and Christianity in the UK is not positive for the British identity.'
The idea came from the charity Oxford Inspires, which was set up to promote culture in the area. Tei Williams, a press officer for the charity, said: 'In Oxfordshire we have Winter Light which is a whole festival spanning two months. Within that will be Christmas carol services.'
Deputy leader of the council Ed Turner added: 'There's going to be a Christmas tree, and even if the lights are called something else to me they will be Christmas lights.'
I know I'm pretty late with this, but: I was in Oxford at the time, and this was of course completely untrue. Shame that even The Observer decided to run this story.ramonmercado said:Here we go again. Anyone for Lokis Day? We could give eachother Loki bags.
Christmas is axed in Oxford
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/nov/02/chris ... -christian
The Observer, Sunday November 2 2008
Council leaders in Oxford have decided to ban the word Christmas from this year's festive celebrations to make them more 'inclusive'. But the decision to rename the series of events the 'Winter Light Festival' has been criticised by religious leaders and locals said it was 'ludicrous'.
'
Tangaroa42 said:This "Gumpf" is all about not offending the Muslim faith, nothing more nothing less, well I say without say reservation, stuff the Muslims, if they cant live without being "Offended" by Christianity, then let them got out or get on with it. I,m not big on religion any more but, this is a country based on Christian beliefs and culture and I most strongly object to ANYONE suborning that faith or that culture merely not to be "Offended " by it. I dont feel offended by anyone of the Muslim faith or any other faith, Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu, Church of Turkey or Inner Church of Outer Mongolia, they do their thing freely and without prosletysing don,t they?, well let the Muslims do the same. And Government and lefty tree hugging wimpy PC interferers should keep their Orwellian Marxist noses out of it and stick to screwing the country the best way they know how, by TROUGHING in the expenses bin. :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
sorry about spelling errors, btw.
Dingo667 said:When we lived in Gravesend [Kent], which has a large indian population, I saw what some call urban myth with my own eyes. There were no x-mas related lights [not even snowflakes], just those blueish dots everytwhere.
Edit: URL size reduced. P_MChristian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
By Jonathan Petre
Last updated at 12:28 PM on 20th September 2009
A Christian couple have been charged with a criminal offence after taking part in what they regarded as a reasonable discussion about religion with guests at their hotel.
Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang were arrested after a Muslim woman complained to police that she had been offended by their comments.
They have been charged under public order laws with using ‘threatening, abusive or insulting words’ that were ‘religiously aggravated’.
Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang
Facing trial: Christian hoteliers Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang believed the religious discussion was reasonable and deny their comments were threatening
The couple, whose trial has been set for December, face a fine of up to £5,000 and a criminal record if they are convicted.
Although the facts are disputed, it is thought that during the conversation the couple were challenged over their Christian beliefs.
It is understood that they suggested that Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was a warlord and that traditional Muslim dress for women was a form of bondage.
They deny, however, that their comments were threatening and argue that they had every right to defend and explain their beliefs.
The Bounty House Hotel in Liverpool
Scene of 'offence': The Bounty House Hotel in Liverpool, where a Muslim guest was upset
Mrs Vogelenzang, 54, who has run the Bounty House Hotel near Aintree racecourse in Liverpool with her husband Ben, 53, for six years, said: ‘Nothing like this has happened to us before. We are completely shocked.’
She added that the episode had damaged their business and they had been forced to lay off staff and run the nine-bedroom hotel by themselves, leaving them exhausted.
Sources said that a number of guests staying at the hotel, which charges £92 a night for a double room, were having breakfast in its restaurant on March 20 when comments were made about religion.
One of those involved was the Muslim woman, who was staying at the hotel while she received treatment at a hospital nearby.
The couple, who are members of the Bootle Christian Fellowship, and their solicitor, David Whiting, said they could not discuss the content of the conversation for legal reasons. But the independent lobby group, the Christian Institute, which has seen both the prosecution and defence legal papers, is supporting their defence.
Mr Whiting, who last year successfully defended street preacher Anthony Rollins in Birmingham, said: ‘There is a dispute as to the facts of the allegations, but Ben and Sharon do not accept they were threatening, abusive or insulting.
‘They are committed Christians and it is the defence’s contention that they have every right to defend their religious beliefs and explain those beliefs to others who do not hold similar views.’
After the incident, the couple voluntarily attended St Anne’s Street police station in Liverpool, where they were interviewed under caution.
In July they were arrested and charged under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 and Section 31 (1) (c) and (5) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.
They appeared briefly at Liverpool Magistrates Court on Friday to hear the date of their trial before magistrates, and were granted bail on the condition that they did not approach any of the witnesses expected to appear.
The use by the police of the Public Order Act to arrest people over offensive comments has dismayed a number of lawyers, who say the legislation was passed to deal with law and order problems in the streets.
Neil Addison, a prominent criminal barrister and expert in religious law, said: ‘The purpose of the Public Order Act is to prevent disorder, but I’m very concerned that the police are using it merely because someone is offended.
‘It should be used where there is violence, yobbish behaviour or gratuitous personal abuse. It should never be used where there has been a personal conversation or debate with views firmly expressed.
‘If someone is in a discussion and they don’t like what they are hearing, they can walk away.’
He added that the police had a legal duty under the Human Rights Act to defend free speech ‘and I think they are forgetting that’.
A number of Church leaders in Liverpool have written to Keir Starmer, the Director of Public Prosecutions, voicing their concerns and pressing for the case to be dropped.
Christian Institute spokesman Mike Judge said ‘important’ issues of religious liberty were at stake.
‘In recent years, we have backed several cases where Christians have suffered unfair treatment because of their faith,’ he said. ‘We have detected a worrying tendency for public bodies to misapply the law in a way that seems to sideline Christianity more than other faiths.’
A spokesman for Merseyside Police said: ‘It would be inappropriate to comment as this is an ongoing case.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fs-discussion-Muslim-guest.html#ixzz0RjTp4hX9