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The Fate of Glenn Miller

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Anonymous

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Has the mystery of Glenn Millers disappearance ever been solved?Did he actually take off at all?Why no wreckage and no reports of any Norseman aircraft in the area on the day in question.Did he in fact arrive in Paris and die in circumstances which would have handed a massive propaganda coup to the Germans?Is this the reason why no court of enquiry was ever held inspite of the fact he was a serving senior Army Officer?More than 50 years later none of these questions have been answered yet the answers to them must surely be known.Any updates please.
 
Yes, it probably has. http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mglennmiller.html has this to say:
"Fred Shaw was a navigator with the 149th Squadron based in Norfolk. According to his logbook, on December 15th his squadron was sent to make a bombing run over Seigen, Germany. However, once the planes reached Brussels, they were told to abandon the run because of bad weather. Returning home, they went to the "southern jettisoning area" 50 miles south of Beachy Head on the Channel to get rid of their bombs. Trying to land a plane with a full bomb load was suicidal--not only did the extra weight of the bombs make landing dangerous, a mistake in landing would easily turn into a catastrophe were the bombs to detonate. So the Allies had designated large areas of sea where air and ship traffic was forbidden and bombers could safely unload cargo that hadn't been "sent with a kiss" to the Germans.

Just after unloading the bombs, the bombardier called out that there was a plane below them. Shaw looked out the window and saw a Norseman flying south at 1500 feet. Bombs were going off all around it. Just before it disappeared from Shaw's line of vision, it went into a tailspin. Seconds later the rear gunner called out that "there's a kite just gone in down under." Shaw's aircraft then returned to base. Since they had never crossed into enemy territory, the crew never reported the plane they had seen go down over the Channel."

That are other stories about his death - that he was accidentally shot by an MP, or that he died in the arms of a Parisian prostitute. However, the "friendly fire" version just seems far more believable.
 
I've got the same info, as Annasdottir !

How old r u Annasdottir ?
 
Interesting theories but as in so many other cases why no corroboration from Shaws colleagues?The rumour whispered for years was that Millers plane was shot down by an Allied fighter but the flight records from december 15 clearly state that 20 aircraft were sighted in the battle area during the day.Nineteen of them were jets and the twentieth was a Ju 88.It was attacked and damaged but broke off the engagement and disappeared.It is impossible to believe that the squadron could confuse a Norseman with a Ju 88.
The fact that no court of enquiry was ever held points to the inescapable conlusion that the Americans knew exactly what happened to Miller and his pilot but for whatever reason,this cannot be disclosed to the public.
Conspiracy theories sell many books but as in so many other cases do serious damage to the genuine researcher and put back the day of the truth emerging.A good recent example:For many years people wondered what became of Martin Bormann,Hitlers deputy,and present with him in the bunker as the Russians advanced on Berlin.I distinctly remember an ex British secret service agent stating that he was in an Italian port with an American colleague in 1946 and both of them watching Bormann and his entourage depart from the quayside with looted booty for a new life in South America.The agent relayed this to his superiors and was told not to interfere.We now know that,thanks to DNA,Bormann got no further than a few yards from the Bunker before killing himself like so many of his cowardly brethren.
 
laura said:
I've got the same info, as Annasdottir !

How old r u Annasdottir ?
Click to expand...

Old enugh to have seen Jim Morrison live (and no, he wasn't working in a chip-shop!) Old enough to have seen David Bowie when he was still doing a mime act. Old enough to spell properly.

Getting back to this thread's topic, I still think the "Oh Christ, where did that sodding plane come from!!" theory holds water. Life is full of cock-ups!
 
Glen Miller

What does everyone think?

Did Glen Miller mysteriously disappear over the English Channel, or was he as the theory goes bombed in a Paris "hotel"?

If he is somewhere in the English Channel, then I think there would have been a major recovery operation by now.
 
Hotel ?

I thought the story was that he died in the arms of a prostitute in Paris, and rather than issue the true story at a time when the allies needed all the feel good stories or heroic tales they could get, the crash over the channel was thought better for morale.

Moggadon
 
Re: Hotel ?

Moggadon said:
I thought the story was that he died in the arms of a prostitute in Paris
Click to expand...


I think Red Dalek was just being polite:D
 
Yep, that's right, Art! It's on C4 at 8 pm!

The write-up says: "An exclusive interview reveals how an RAF bomber played a crucial role in the bandleader's untimely demise."

And how!

Carole
 
Going off at a tangent somewhat, didn't film star Leslie Howard die in similar circumstances?

Carole
 
Lesley Howard, was shot down by a German fighter, some where over the Bay of Biscay Carole.

The pilot of Howard's plane apparently reported by radio, that the fighter was flying along side them & did so for several minutes before shooting the plane down!!! Which was unusual behaviour, on this basis various theories have evolved...
 
Yep, Leslie Howard got splashed on his way back from (I think) North Africa, by a Ju 88 heavy fighter from some Luftwaffe coastal patrol unit. I know this because I read an interview with the actual German pilot who shot him down, in the Guardian supplement a couple of years ago, complete with photos of this German and his aircraft, and him and his mates in uniform during their days serving Hitler ("I was never a Nazi, honest..." was one phrase probably uttered during the interview).

As for the unusual behaviour of the German plane, well, I suppose you could afford to take your time if you were a fighter pilot going after an unarmed, unescorted transport plane.
 
There was speculation at one point that Howard was some sort of secret agent - perhaps this had something to do with his demise.

Carole
 
"Glenn Miller's Last Flight" - Channel 4, 8pm, Dec 31st. Claims to "solve the mystery".
 
Odd that, I thought I'd already seen it!

Presumably I saw some preview clips, or another program on it (but still supporting the 'friendly fire' theory), or I've got precognition...
 
Glenn Miller revisited

There's a very interesting theory in Colin Wilson's book "The Mammoth Encyclopedia of Unsolved Mysteries": to wit, and in nutshell, after the plane vanished Miller's "widow" Helen attempted to dig a bit, only to be everything was classified, etc etc. After the war, she continued to dig, only this time she was told all records had been lost. It later transpired, due to the tenacity of an ex RAF man named Wright, who asked for the USAF official accident reports for the month in question, ie Dec '44, that the plane was never reported as missing, and had not been heading for Paris, but Bordeaux. After that Wright hit a total stone wall. What is striking, though, is that the chief liason officer between US and British entertainment Corps was none other than David Niven: confirmed by many third parties. Niven was in over all charge of concert venues for high profile morale boosters like Miller, and was in de facto charge of Miller's schedule. However, post 1944 Niven never once mentioned Miller again, neither in his autobiographies (which are littered with dropped names) nor apparently in social discourse. Niven had actually been in Paris on the day of Miller's disappearence with Marlene Dietrich - it is from her biography that this detail emerged , cos again Niven doesn't mention it: the conclusion reached is that Miller was in fact already there, with the two of them. The theories then go into fractal mode from there on in, that Miller was involved in something very shady, either intelligence or possibly criminal, but the strongest thread seems to be that Miller died in a brawl in a brothel, in Paris, the night before he allegedly perished in a plane crash: hence the cover up to avoid the scandal. His body was then secretly flown to Columbus AFB, Ohio, where he was buried,and then twenty odd years later his reamins were moved to Altadena, where his widow (mysteriously) purchased a six grave plot shortly before her own death - possibly having been finally let in on it by the US military.
Just a theory, sure, but it kinda makes sense...
 
Fascinating! I'd like to know more.
 
I'll have to rootle around in my attic to find the book -I'll get back to you presently...
 
OK got it: the theory is pretty much as outlined above (what a memory) but for a couple of details: for a start, Miller was mortally wounded in Paris, was flown back to Columbus, OH, and died there a few days later. Because Wright, the ex RAF chap, had become quite high profile in his quest for the truth about Miller's death, he received lots of letters, including one from a WWII vet who'd said he'd been with Miller in the military hospital in Columbus where he died of head injuries.
Furthermore, when Wright contacted the state registrar in New Jersey, where Miller had lived pre-war, asking for details of the death of Major Alton Glenn Miller, they replied that he had died in Ohio in 1944. Wright rang to confirm this with them, but made the boob of saying "You realise that this is THE Glenn Miller we're talking about," at which point there was a stony silence, followed by "We'll call you back..." Wright then received another letter, a couple of days later, to the effect that they'd been mistaken and had given Miller's place of birth, not death.
Miller was born in Iowa...
Also the detail about his wife's burial plot was wrong - she bought the six-grave plot in 1949, although her family then consisted of herself, her two sons, and her two parents: who was the remaining plot for?
Still seems to add up.
 
Did a bit of Googling on this one.

This site mentions the brothel theory, and with German secret agents thrown in:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mglennmiller.html

This one provides more of a Fortean take on the use of music in warfare:
http://ezrael.org/burning/archive/000023.html

But this is an odd co-incidence: according to these two sites (and many others), Miller and Niven shared the same birthday, March 1st:
http://www.tnl.net/when/date.asp?month=03&day=01
http://www.nortexinfo.net/McDaniel/0301.htm

Funny old world.
 
I would have thought it was perfectly obvious why Miller's widow bought an extra grave plot. It was in case Miller's body was ever recovered - it could then be buried alongside his family. No need to invoke any conspiracy theories about this particular point.
 
Annasdottir said:
I would have thought it was perfectly obvious why Miller's widow bought an extra grave plot.... . No need to invoke any conspiracy theories about this particular point.
Click to expand...

Agreed completely .Grave plots are also more easily purchased in even numbered batches, especially if the occupants are to be stacked.
 
What about everybody else on the plane?

Sorry to break in late here - but what about the pilot and crew? If Miller didn't die in a plane crash, what happened to them?
 
Glenn Miller- Where He Went

Occam's Razer, the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

He died in Paris.

His plane teleported.

Case closed.

QED?

Maybe...
 
For Americans (and Canadians who can get PBS):
"Glenn Miller's Last Flight", an investigation into the disappearance of the bandleader's plane during World War II, is being shown on August 28 at 9:00PM EST.
 
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