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Re: Green Man, Sheelagh-na-Gig etc

Stu Neville said:
,
Wilson also tells us that if you look under the altar stone of a really old church you'll probably find a huge stone phallus.
Now, if it's under the altar stone, how would that entice anyone?
Unless, of course, the vicar kept promising to whop it out during Harvest Festival - and if that's not a Pagan Festival I'll eat my painted bowler hat, complete with bells.
:cool:

Wilson is onto a good thing, he makes a statement that is almost impossible to prove, unless you want to have the wrath of the church on your shoulders.

Quite seriously though, there have been a number of excavations inside old churches & as far as I can see, NONE have had a large stone found under the site of the altar. Though, I will re-check my back numbers of Current Archaeology

It was however, a sought after place for the burial of people of "high office" rectors &/or local nobility & some record would remain if every first time the site under the altar was dug a large monolith was found.

Mr Wilson, needs to give us sources & references for his comment.
 
I might be wrong about the name, but there is an old club/dancehall in London called the Cecil Sharp(e) House. There are numerous Green Man depictions inside, as folkies of all stripe have played there for years. As well as a lovely large playing room with a wood floor, and a bar downstairs. Anyone been? Care to comment on the "resurgance" or co-option of Green Man imagery/beliefs in the last few decades?
 
As I child I had piano lessons, and was often confused by the mention of C Sharp on the sheet music when I could see it was in a different key - only later in life did I learn about the Cecil Sharp who collected folk songs!
 
David - I wish I could find my copy, but it is definitely in Wilson's "Mysteries" - must admit I didn't scan for references at the time - will be more dilligent next time!
 
I was very interested in Dan's comments about a Seven Foot Green Man walking around a Sheffield suburb, especially being a Sheffielder. So where in Sheffield is it Dan?

Interestingly a similar man (do we know its sex?) walks around Sherwood Forest. I have several accounts from witnesses who claim to have seen him and a Herne the Hunter type person. In some cases he is known to have "Mothman" type red eyes.
 
Part of our Christmas tree decorations, ever since i can remember, was a little elf type figure, with pipe cleaner arms & legs, all dressed in a green Elf type outfit. we always called him 'Twigwidge' as he was somehow linked to a Nursery rhyme i have only a vague memory of, which went 'Twigwidge lives at the bottom of the garden, in an old oak tree..' thats all i remember. For some reason i've always associated him with the Green Man ( well, he is dressed in green, and as far as i can see, he has Very little to do with the birth of jesus.. Hang on, Same as Christmas itself then...!). He's still at my Dads House. In a dusty old Christmas Box in the attic...

Anyone Know the nursery rhyme?
 
Twigwidge was a character in a 1970s TV show:

Twigwidge: Made of twigs and branches. Lived in a treehouse. On lunchtime in the 70s.

DOWN AT THE GATE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE GARDEN
TWIGWIDGE LIVES IN A CHESTNUT TREE
NO ONE KNOWS OF THE MERRY LITTLE TREE SPRITE
DAYLONG WORKING SO HAPPILY

TAP-TAP TWIGWIDGE
RAT-A-TAT TWIGWIDGE
TWIGWIDGE, SPIRIT OF THE CHESTNUT TREE
TAP-TAP TWIGWIDGE
RAT-A-TAT TWIGWIDGE
TWIGWIDGE, SPIRIT OF THE CHESTNU-HUT TREEEE.

Here's the address for this info:
http://www.kids-tv.co.uk/t.htm

Doubtless subliminal pagan programming!

"I was a reference librarian in a previous life."
 
Thanks for the link Chris, brings back fond memories, sitting with the kids on my day off watching these shows, I wish they'd bring them back, they're a damn sight better than some of the cheap cartoon rubbish the kids watch today.
 
Wow! I never realised it was a TV Show. I have any little memory of it, other than the fragment of song! i always thought it was something we sang at school. Maybe we did. No -one else i've spoken to about it remembers it.

Thanks for clearing that up, and the intersting link!
 
My pleasure, Pete & 4imix! Maybe we're looking at a new Fortean phenomenon: folklore arising out of popular media! We can expect sightings of Smurfs, the Jolly Green Giant (another Green Man type), Pokemon characters, Barney, and Teletubbies. The Horror....

"I was a reference librarian in a previous life."
 
:) never sent an email b4.cant type either so please forgive me.there are also similar figures to the greenman in indian,greek,native american & most other cultures.look up http://www.revels.org & indigogroup.co.uk/edge/greenman.htm.im still totally pc unfriendly so i apologise cos i cant send photos or stuff yet.hope ive been of some help.peace,lol.
 
Somewhere or other I had a link to a website about Green Men around the world (from the Americas to Indonesia), but I can't find it now :( I'll have a poke around and put it up soon
 
re Twigwidge

The "Time and Tune" BBC radio programmes for schools "did" Twigwidge.My daughter (now 35) sang about him in classroom music lessons, at the school where I also taught. Her class put up a display in the corridor with Twidwidge as the central figure.

MsT
 
There's more about the green man on this ft thread: "mummer's plays, the green man etc. 27-02-03 started by pi.
Should they be bumped?
 
brian ellwood said:
There's more about the green man on this ft thread: "mummer's plays, the green man etc. 27-02-03 started by pi.
Should they be bumped?

You mean here and I guess you meant merged.
 
And sound even ruder.

I mean... 'Column Swallower'..? Come on... :rolleyes:
 
Mickleditch said:
And sound even ruder.

I mean... 'Column Swallower'..? Come on... :rolleyes:


Hey, he was gonna use 'Column Sucker'. Think yourself lucky!:D
 
stonedoggy said:
http://www.greenmanreview.com/gallery_index.html


I have several pieces of this artist's jewellery in the IOTA green man collection. Thought folks might like to see her work.


Kath

Those are very cool Stonedoggy! My brother gave me an ornament a few years ago of the Green Man which I keep up all year long. It is made from terra cotta like some of the work your artist has done. My daughter asked....."What is that supposed to be?" I told her it was the Green Man. She said........"Um, mom, that's the red man."

I have a few other depictions of him around the house. I am drawn to the images and I love them!
 
Some really nice stuff there stonedoggy, wish I could afford it, especially Autumn greenman.
 
love that about the Red Man..... kind of like blackwork and redwork and whitework in embroidery :)


this may or may not help....

she sells her jewellery on ebay for very fair prices - which may still be too much of course! I don't mean that This Means Of Course They Can Be Justified.......

Kath
 
Does anyone have any pictures of the Steeple Aston Cope?

It's an eg of early english embroidery and, allegedly, has green men in it.

Can't find a look-see at the moment but I'm wondering if they have done the GM = woodwose thing.

Kath

EDIT to add please? pretty please?
 
At the moment I'm searching for "green men" in Rotterdam (NL). Today I found this quartet on a late 19th century house. Do they count?

It will be quite difficult to find any since we don't have a very strong "green man" tradition here and Rotterdam is a relatively modern city.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greenman05.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greenman02.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greenman03.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greenman04.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greenman01.jpg

I was inspired by a book by the Czech author Vaclav Cilek who has made a list of all the green men he found in Prague. But his examples are much older.
 
2nd post from a frequent lurker!

Some more coincidence. . . Yesterday I dug out my old 'Slaine the Horned God' 2000AD Graphic novels for my G/F to take on a solo Holiday to the Island of Coll in the Hebrides. My favourite comics, and Green Man inspired to boot! (Ive also asked her to keep her eyes peeled for ol' Horny or any high strangeness, will post on her return)

:twisted:
 
I have found possibly another green man in Rotterdam, again at the Nieuwe Binnenweg. It is a remnant from an older building that has been recycled into a modern appartment block:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greenman05-1.jpg

Does this count as a green man? I'm very new to this (fascinating) subject.

And while I'm looking at older buildings I've found these devil heads at the train station in The Hague (Hollands Spoor). Now I'm wondering ... what is the motivation for such an ornament? It's not very pretty, it's not very confidence inspiring, so why do it anyway? There must be some (ancient?) tradition behind this. Anyone know more about this?
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/devil01.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/devil03.jpg

And in the same spot this monstrous dog:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/devil02.jpg
It makes me wonder. And I have more fun walking through the city this way :D
 
uair01 said:
I have found possibly another green man in Rotterdam, again at the Nieuwe Binnenweg. It is a remnant from an older building that has been recycled into a modern appartment block:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greenman05-1.jpg

Does this count as a green man? I'm very new to this (fascinating) subject.

.... Yes it does!!!!!!

How old, or from what period, was the old building?
 
I'm quite captivated by the Green Man image and am looking actively at any older building I see. In the meantime I've found:

A GREEN CAT on a stone pillar in The Hague :miaow:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greencat01.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greencat02.jpg

A green man in The Hague:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greenman_dh.jpg

Another green man in Groningen:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/greenman_gr.jpg

They are all on buildings that date from around 1850. My guess is that in this time all the "neo" styles were in vogue and that several architects dug up old motifs from a picture book.

And I found a few more devil's heads - sometimes in surprising places:

One in Groningen - again on an 1850 building - also notice the rooks, my favorite birds:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/devilhead_gr.jpg

And one - of all places - on the Berlin cathedral. I'm stumped why protestant church builders would put a devil on the facade of their nice new church:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/uair01/devil_berlin.jpg

Anyone any ideas ?
 
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