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The Legendary Thunderbird Photo

Ogdred Weary said:
I saw the Thunderbird photo in The Beano.
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4e0badb977b890c9a082a48c36398bb79fdef27da2a3825bb7c812a0a4d4


maximus otter
 
This is the sort of 'Thunderbird photo' that I like.
1678373667844.png
 
ChasFink said:
The FreakyLinks photos were deliberately meant to reference the already established thunderbird photo "memories".

I remember reading about the thunderbird photo in the 1970s or so. Unless that is a false memory!
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But back in the 70s was anyone claiming it was a pterosaur, or was it a huge bird resembling this sketch?

bird.png
 
As I remember the pic I saw, it was a line of slightly dishevelled guys in full, dark coloured suits, all wearing hats, probably about ten of 'em (not ten hats, ten guys), stood outdoors, outside of a building, with the bird laid down on the floor in front of them, with it's wings stretching across the picture, but the photo was taken in poor light so it all looked rather dark.
Probably a bit like this.
1678379219209.png
 
Are we absolutely sure it wasn't in a 'Dorling Kindersley' book?
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Trevp666 said:
As I remember the pic I saw, it was a line of slightly dishevelled guys in full, dark coloured suits, all wearing hats, probably about ten of 'em (not ten hats, ten guys), stood outdoors, outside of a building, with the bird laid down on the floor in front of them, with it's wings stretching across the picture, but the photo was taken in poor light so it all looked rather dark.
Probably a bit like this.
View attachment 64143
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As I remember it, the massive bird (not a pterosaur) was attached to the outside of the barn
 
dannycheveaux1 said:
As I remember it, the massive bird (not a pterosaur) was attached to the outside of the barn
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That's another mystery I would like answering; when did the Thunderbird, which in American Indian folklore (and totem pole carvings) was always a huge bird with obvious feathers, get conflated with pterosaurs?
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
This came up in today's Quora.
It's a model recreation of Teratornitis - a gigantic condor-like bird thought to have gone extinct around the Pleistocene–Holocene boundary (around 11,500 years ago). So it certainly overlapped with human occupation of North America and I agree that this is one of the most likely candidates to have inspired the Thunderbird legend.

View attachment 63111
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Apologies for the diversion, but I think that model is actually of Argentavis that came, as the name suggests, from South America. It went extinct well before humans came along ( I suppose that should be "it is believed to have gone extinct"). The late Pleistocene species of teratorns were somewhat less thunderous with wingspans up to 5 metres or so.
 
oxo66 said:
Apologies for the diversion, but I think that model is actually of Argentavis that came, as the name suggests, from South America. It went extinct well before humans came along ( I suppose that should be "it is believed to have gone extinct"). The late Pleistocene species of teratorns were somewhat less thunderous with wingspans up to 5 metres or so.
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Don't think there's a huge amount to choose between the reconstructions of Teratornis:

Tera.png


... and Argentavis:

arge.png


But Teratornis definitely overlapped with human occupation of the Americas, as its demise appears to have been partly due to hunting by humans:

https://prehistoric-wiki.fandom.com...tion,cycles which altered aquatic vertebrates.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Don't think there's a huge amount to choose between the reconstructions of Teratornis:

View attachment 64173

... and Argentavis:

View attachment 64174

But Teratornis definitely overlapped with human occupation of the Americas, as its demise appears to have been partly due to hunting by humans:

https://prehistoric-wiki.fandom.com/wiki/Teratornis#:~:text=in the asphalt.-,Extinction,cycles which altered aquatic vertebrates.
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So many species! The one at that link, Teratornis merriami, is the best documented one, where complete skeletons have been found in the La Brea Tar Pits. It went extinct around 10,000 years ago. That link has stats probably taken from wikipedia of 15 kg and 3.8m wingspan so (again quoting wikipedia) "about a third bigger than extant condors".

Wikipedia also lists Aiolornis incredibilis as known from fragmentary remains and "uniformly about 40% larger [than Teratornis merriami] so up to 23 kilograms and a wingspan of 5.5 metres".

Argentavis magnificens is often listed as 7m wingspan but a much more massive 70-80kg. This fits the much broader-winged shape of the museum reconstruction.

oxo
 
Ogdred Weary said:
I saw the Thunderbird photo in The Beano.
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I always knew Gnasher was up to something, shooting thunderbirds I see!

Wanted to chime in here, Im also looking for it but dont remember it myself. I am currently searching the readers digest books, have checked a few but am missing some. So if anyone here can check their books, readers digest and others, and let me know what books, then that would be a massive help!

Lets do a mass book search, if we get enough eyes and throw together a table of searched books we might have better luck and an ‘easier’ search.
 
Enigma said:
Possibly, its worth a try.
Sadly I haven't been able to find anything to confirm it or anything about the people in the story.

However, I imagine the postal company has and owns the photo.
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Sent you some info, Engima, and I'll see if I can find anything.
 
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A reservoir in Coconino County is named the Sweetwood Tank:

https://www.anyplaceamerica.com/directory/az/coconino-county-04005/reservoirs/sweetwood-tank-35001/

Puts it in the right location

Ben Sweetwood is described as Coconino County 'local merchant':

"Developed between 1912 and 1915 by local merchant Ben Sweetwood, the Sultana Building functioned as a saloon, billiard parlor, dance hall, and motion picture theater, one of the earliest in the state"

https://sah-archipedia.org/buildings/AZ-01-005-0096-02

Ben Sweetwood is listed on the Coconino census in 1910:

http://hometownchronicles.com/az/coconino/census/1910_ed022p02.txt
 
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By the way, did anyone else see the 'wildman of the woods' article on that front page? Very possibly a Bigfoot or other cryptid sighting or maybe just poor long lost soul as the paper suggests. The Sweetwood ranch is mentioned again in connection with the search using dogs.

Might be some shenanigans going on here: a local merchant who owns a saloon bar and ranch has both a huge eagle rather dramatically wrestled to the ground by a farm hand and also a 'wildman' on the loose on his property...? Is this a local in-joke, maybe the guy was bit of a drinker and teller of tall tales and they are poking fun at him, more so as the paper describes the hunt for the wild man was conducted 'especially" on the Sweetwood ranch.
 
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Oh dear, it is not looking promising:

"In an anecdote from Those Old Yellow Dog Days: Frontier Journalism in Arizona 1859-1912, Lyon describes how drinking was rampant and working conditions not always satisfactory. The story asserts that, "A liquored-up worker at The Williams News confronted owner Frank Wells with a .45-caliber pistol and demanded his wages. Wells promptly handed over the cash, where-upon the employee tried to sell him the gun.""

https://azmemory.azlibrary.gov/nodes/view/439
 
This story looks legit to me based on the individuals named in the article. Here is the info I found on them, in various issues of the Williams News and in James H. McClintock's history of Arizona:

Benjamin F. Sweetwood was one of the pioneers of Williams, Arizona , having located there in 1893 and attained prosperity as the area grew. He was extensively engaged in cattle ranching and was also the proprietor of the Sultana Theatre. He was born in Michigan in 1872 and arrived in Williams in 1893. He worked there for three years as bookkeeper for the Saginaw Lumber Company and then turned his attention to railroading for one year. He was connected for a number of years with the liquor business but then shifted successfully to cattle raising. Sweetwood's large cattle ranch was northwest of Williams. In 1912, he built the popular Sultana Theatre, a modern building for the time that could seat 664 people and had a roomy stage adequate for producing most any kind of play. Sweetwood married Nellie Seibers of Los Angeles in July 1902. Sweetwood was a member of the Williams city council an the Fraternal Order of Eagles (apropos).

George B. "G.B." Kirkpatrick was manager of the Postal Telegraph relay station in Williams, a prestigious role at what was considered an important hub of the telegraph system. Kirkpatrick arrived in Williams from Los Angeles in 1911 and made many friends due to his "gentlemanly and courteous treatment" of those who did business with the company. His family remained in Los Angeles although his wife eventually joined him in Williams. Kirkpatrick engaged in competitive shooting as a member of the Williams Shot Gun Club. He became involved in civic affairs and served as Williams' mayor before leaving for Santa Barbara in 1919 to establish an electrical and auto supply business. Kirkpatrick died there on March 25, 1949, age 81.

Bert Brown relocated to Williams as a child in 1906 (being in the 3rd or 4th grade). He married Mae Owen in 1916. Bert was working at that time for Williams Transfer and the couple settled in the city. In May 1918, he attempted to enlist in the U.S. Army (or was drafted, it's unclear) to fight in World War I but was ultimately rejected for service. The Browns stayed in Williams and raised a family.

Due to the cited wingspan of the eagle (over 8 feet), it sounds like a normal golden or bald eagle on the higher end of expected size. While this could just be one of many eagle trophy photos from the era, the fact that it took place in Arizona (Tombstone being center to the Thunderbird Photo legend) and could have been misremembered over the years as showing a larger bird (especially since the article said that boys posed with the bird) makes it worthy of investigation. The weekly Williams News had the ability to print photos in 1913, but frustratingly the issue immediately following the report on the giant eagle is missing from the archives. I'm putting out some feelers to institutions in that area that have historic photo collections. It would be very cool if this photo still exists! This is, I think, one of the only articles of this nature that specifically mentions that photographs were taken of the large bird that was killed. Not even the original Epitaph article (which is about a dragon-like monster, not a bird) does that, in spite of what people remembered. I will follow up if I find anything more.
 
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Paul_Exeter said:
By the way, did anyone else see the 'wildman of the woods' article on that front page? Very possibly a Bigfoot or other cryptid sighting or maybe just poor long lost soul as the paper suggests. The Sweetwood ranch is mentioned again in connection with the search using dogs.

Might be some shenanigans going on here: a local merchant who owns a saloon bar and ranch has both a huge eagle rather dramatically wrestled to the ground by a farm hand and also a 'wildman' on the loose on his property...? Is this a local in-joke, maybe the guy was bit of a drinker and teller of tall tales and they are poking fun at him, more so as the paper describes the hunt for the wild man was conducted 'especially" on the Sweetwood ranch.
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I have had a thought that the photo could have been from some type of an event or attraction, if that ends up being the case this wouldnt rule them out and could be an interesting tie in to that theory.

Even if the bird itself is a hoax, it doesnt mean the photo is!

I also have a few other clippings that might be worth a look at, I’ll have to collect them together some time.
 
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