OneWingedBird
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it has been suggested by some that the McCann's have still been drawing a salary from the hospital trust they work for, at the same time as using the 'find Madelaine' fund to pay off their mortgage.
their return to work would coincide rather with the bit where they'd go down to half pay if they stayed off any longer.
their return to work would coincide rather with the bit where they'd go down to half pay if they stayed off any longer.
Gerry McCann's already gone back to work, on a part time, behind the scenes basis.
He slipped quietly back to his office one day, merely having the publicity team arrange a press conference, with a pre-prepared statement that he read outside the hospital. No fuss at all.
He slipped quietly back to his office one day, merely having the publicity team arrange a press conference, with a pre-prepared statement that he read outside the hospital. No fuss at all.
BlackRiverFalls said:
And what proof do you have of any of this? For Forteans, there seems to be an awful lot of people here prepared to take at face value every vile rumour the press care to print about them. Gerry McCann has only recently returned to work after being on unpaid leave and Kate McCann was only a part-time locum GP anyway. None of us are privy to their financial arrangements, suffice to the number of wealthy benefactors they have are more than capable of helping them with their mortgage (the phrase "pay off" is deliberately misleading on your part). Do you expect them to live on the street? They still have two kids to look after. Frankly, I find the level of cynicism displayed here leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. Yes, perhaps they deserve all the criticism they get for leaving the kids there in the first place but they've paid a brutal price for that mistake. I wouldn't wish that punishment on any parent.
escargot
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I watched Panorama last night and found it interesting. The various possible 'timelines' were illuminating.
About the McCanns: I wonder how they should behave? Would it be more 'correct' for them to appear devastated and incoherent in their loss?
People who have suffered a devastating loss don't necessarily crumble and give up. Some do, some don't, depending on various factors like the amount of support they have, their own strength of personality and so on.
Would they get more sympathy if they retreated into grief, rather than mobilising all their not inconsiderable resources to keep everyone talking about the case?
Is there really no such thing as bad publicity?
About the McCanns: I wonder how they should behave? Would it be more 'correct' for them to appear devastated and incoherent in their loss?
People who have suffered a devastating loss don't necessarily crumble and give up. Some do, some don't, depending on various factors like the amount of support they have, their own strength of personality and so on.
Would they get more sympathy if they retreated into grief, rather than mobilising all their not inconsiderable resources to keep everyone talking about the case?
Is there really no such thing as bad publicity?
In the case of the 'back to work' press conference, I just couldn't see the point. It seemed like publicity for the sake of it.
Gerry McCann standing there thanking people for being supportive and talking about what he was going to be doing with his working day did nothing, in my opinion, to help the search for Madeleine. In the coverage I saw, he didn't even hold up a picture of his daughter, just to remind us what should be at the centre of the story.
It smacked of publicity for himself and his wife, rather than for his missing child, which made me uncomfortable.
Gerry McCann standing there thanking people for being supportive and talking about what he was going to be doing with his working day did nothing, in my opinion, to help the search for Madeleine. In the coverage I saw, he didn't even hold up a picture of his daughter, just to remind us what should be at the centre of the story.
It smacked of publicity for himself and his wife, rather than for his missing child, which made me uncomfortable.
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Certainly, the Media are largely to blame. Quite possibly, the Portuguese Authorities, in the form of unamed sources, too.Dr_Baltar said:
However, it was the McCanns themselves, who decided to employ a series of professional Public Relations advisers.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/sep/12/marketingandpr.crime
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/sep/13/marketingandpr.crime
Are they not now reaping what they sowed?
Dr_Baltar, someone must have told the press he was going back to work, as there were numerous television crews covering it, and they wouldn't have been hanging about the gates of the hospital on the off chance that he would be there that day. He had a pre-prepared statement that he read out, so obviously it was an orchestrated media event. The statement I heard was more about him and his wife than about Madeleine.
He could have just slipped back to work with the minimum of fuss, but he and/or the publicity machine behind him decided otherwise.
I don't for one minute think the McCanns would rather be TV stars than find their child, I'm not that cynical or hard-hearted. But they had a press conference to publicise a event unconnected with her disappearance. I would have preferred to see more emphasis on the search for her than his return to work.
He could have just slipped back to work with the minimum of fuss, but he and/or the publicity machine behind him decided otherwise.
I don't for one minute think the McCanns would rather be TV stars than find their child, I'm not that cynical or hard-hearted. But they had a press conference to publicise a event unconnected with her disappearance. I would have preferred to see more emphasis on the search for her than his return to work.
Pietro_Mercurios said:
What did they sow and what do you suppose they are reaping? And if you wanted to carry out a campaign to find your daughter would you feel capable of doing it yourself or would you seek help from professionals?
Fizz32 said:
Nobody ever leaks these things do they? And don't you suppose he knew full well the press would be all over him the day he returned to work? He was no doubt advised to have a statement prepared for them. The press were only there to get the story of his return to work and how his wife is coping. What more is there to say about Madeleine than they still hope she'll be found alive?
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That would depend on whether the PR adviser was employed to organise and run a campaign to find the child, or to help control and organise the Mcanns' media presence, now, wouldn't it? To portray their clients in the best possible light, isn't that what 'Public Relations' advisers are all about?Dr_Baltar said:
Cynicism? We have it.
Pietro_Mercurios said:
I would imagine a PR adviser could be employed to do both. And given the way they been treated in the media, both here and in Portugal, and the way some people seem prepared to perpetuate every piece of unsubstantiated gossip, I don't blame them for looking for help.
Quake42
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To be honest, given that they left three very young children alone at night so that they could go out boozing, I think that they were treated surprisingly well by the media for a long time. If they hadn't been (a) photogenic and (b) doctors (it isn't just a class thing - if they had been accountants or lawyers far less sympathy would have been forthcoming) they would have been ripped to shreds by the media in the early days of the investigation.
I agree with Pietro that their media advisers seem far more interested in spinning the McCanns' version of events than in looking for their daughter. The weekend's reports that the McCanns' private detectives had tracked Madeleine down but were not prepared to reveal her location were particularly ludicrous IMO.
I don't think anyone on this board has displayed "disgusting cynicism" - if anything people have been rather restrained. A number of posters have expressed the view that the McCanns behaviour following their daughter's disappearance was rather odd and have been sceptical about their media spinning. I think this is reasonable under the circumstances.
Quake42 said:
They went for a meal, why try to paint them in a worse light for their mistake by using a loaded phrase like "so that they could go out boozing"? I think the fact of who and what they are has worked against them as much as for them.
Again, a loaded phrase, "spinning". You would expect media advisers to be more concerned with dealing with the media than doing the work of the police and private investigators, would you not? And why blame the McCanns or their representatives for more outlandish press speculation?
So you wouldn't agree that saying they've tried harder to be tv stars than find their daughter was disgusting cynicism?
Quake42
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Well, they went to a tapas bar, where some food may have been consumed but the primary attraction seems to have been alcohol - 14 bottles of wine between 9 people in just over an hour and a half is quite a big night IMO, and I speak as someone who regularly consumes more than government guidelines!
But whether they were going to the pub to get bladdered or for a civilised meal is not really the point. They left a toddler and two babies alone in an unlocked apartment despite babysitters being available and, unbelievably, being, apparently, concerned about security at the complex.
Er, because the particular claim I quoted came from the McCann camp.
Cynicism, yes. Disgusting? Not really. I've thought from the start that the McCanns have been loving the limelight.
Quake42 said:
So it's not the point and yet you repeat unsubstantiated rumours about how much they drank that night. Why mention it at all, particularly if you don't actually know the truth of the matter? It's just character assassination based on gossip.
I have never denied their actions were, at best, risky and foolish. But some of the comments posted here are more reminiscent of tutting fishwives sitting in judgement over the McCanns based on nothing more than tittle-tattle.
As I understood it, they were confirming a line of questioning by the press about it but refusing to comment on individual sightings. Hardly surprising in an ongoing investigation.
Yes, I'm sure they're so glad that their daughter's disappearance and probable death has got them on the telly so much. It's the sort of exposure every parent prays for.
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escargot1 said:I watched Panorama last night and found it interesting. The various possible 'timelines' were illuminating.
About the McCanns: I wonder how they should behave? Would it be more 'correct' for them to appear devastated and incoherent in their loss?
People who have suffered a devastating loss don't necessarily crumble and give up. Some do, some don't, depending on various factors like the amount of support they have, their own strength of personality and so on.
Would they get more sympathy if they retreated into grief, rather than mobilising all their not inconsiderable resources to keep everyone talking about the case?
Is there really no such thing as bad publicity?
Any expectancy I have regarding the behaviour of the McCanns doesn't hinge so much on whether they're 'crumbling' or 'putting on a brave face' per se, it's the rest of their behaviour that I find disconcerting. It's hard to explain but it's that general feeling that something isn't right and doesn't add up - not that 'poor, brave Kate' isn't breaking down the minute that red light goes on. I'm not that addicted to schadenfreude that I need to see that.
As for sympathy, I'm not sure they'd have got more sympathy if they'd "retreated into grief". Rightly or wrongly, the manner of the girl's disappears has made the McCann's complicit in many people's eyes - whether they were directly involved or not. If the scenario had been very different, say Kate was walking Maddy along the beach, then a couple of jetskis zoom up, blokes get off, threaten Kate with a gun and then take the girl away with them on their jet skis, then she'd probably get all the sympathy in the world.
As it stands, a pair of stupid twats repeatedly risk the safety of their children by going boozing and eating (people happier with that clarification?
) on more than one occasion and subsequently a child goes missing. Obviously people are gutted for the little girl, but, for some, myself included, it's difficult to nurture sympathy for such wilfully neglectful parents.Also, and I'm completely honest about this, the 'class' issue is germane to me. This would have played out very, very differently if they'd have been thick, shelf-stackers from Huddersfield rather than media-friendly doctors. In my mind their being middle-class, educated professionals in an occupation normally associated with caring just seems messed-up; they can ask "why?" and wring their hands as much as they like but it won't change anything: they knew better but obviously didn't care. If they'd have cared this wouldn't have happened.
OneWingedBird
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Do you have a cite for that?
And i don't think it makes people by defualt cynical, 'unfortean' or uncritical believers of the 'vile media' just because they don;t have the same views on this matter as you do.
Or the sort of smokescreen that a very different kind of person prays for... we all know what the simplest explanation in this kind of case is
Quake42
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Thre's no doubt that if they had been a working class couple who had left their kids alone in an unlocked apartment while they boozed on with their mates, they would have been buried under the media opprobrium.
I don't think it's just a class issue though. I think they would have been similarly pilloried if they had been overweight, for example, and/or, as I said, if they had been professionals of a less sympathetic kind - accountants or lawyers, say. Also, this is sounds terrible but if Madeleine had been a less photogenic child or had, say, been disabled, or a little older, or even if she had been a boy... I doubt the media frenzy would have lasted this long. It's dreadful, but there you go.
As it was they hit all the right buttons - they were an attractive, affluent couple with beautiful children. They were doctors - even post-Shipman still the most loved and trusted profession - and they had a bevy of similarly attractive, loyal friends who vouched for them.
Those of us who felt their behaviour faintly creepy from the start felt uncomfortable about voicing some of those feelings.
escargot
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Does anyone else feel a bit deja vue about this? As if everything's been said, sometimes more than once and in different ways. In fact, I may even have said this myself a week or so back.
That's not say that people oughtn't to discuss Madeleine's disappearance, of course. But nothing new is coming to light. All there is to talk about is the McCanns themselves.
That's not say that people oughtn't to discuss Madeleine's disappearance, of course. But nothing new is coming to light. All there is to talk about is the McCanns themselves.
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There's that and the fact that any new leads that have arisen, however unlikely, appear to have originated from the McCann camp, itself.escargot1 said:Does anyone else feel a bit deja vue about this? As if everything's been said, sometimes more than once and in different ways. In fact, I may even have said this myself a week or so back.
That's not say that people oughtn't to discuss Madeleine's disappearance, of course. But nothing new is coming to light. All there is to talk about is the McCanns themselves.
Daily Mirror. 21.11.07. McCann witness 'saw child and Murat's girlfriend'
Keep feeding the fires of speculation and risk being thrown on yourself, if the fuel starts to run too low?
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Anonymous
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Ultimately, i think that when maddie went missing the parents wanted to create as much publicity as possible. The problem is that they succeeded too well and because nothing else big is in the news it is all the press have to write about, so they are making up endless crap to keep the public 'entertained'.
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ChrisHBaker said:
Maybe not in the magazines, journals, newspapers and websites you read, ChrisHBaker, but I see a shitload of news all the time: Northern Rock fallout, violent crime and murders, Tobin suspected murders, Meredith student murder, Ron Castree, various strikes, blue tongue, infections in hospitals, Iraq and problems for the army, environment and green topics, child benefit scandal, immigration and other government scandals and that's just off the top of my head.
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Anonymous
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Put it that way there is a lot in the news, but maddie always seems to dominate the front page of the daily express.
Most of the news articles on maddie don't seem to contain any new factual content.
Most of the news articles on maddie don't seem to contain any new factual content.
Peripart
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That tells us rather more about the Daily Express than about the McCann case.ChrisHBaker said:
As Jeff says, there's plenty else going on in the news recently, so I'm stunned that papers like the Express still see fit to print every rumour, malicious or otherwise, that's doing the rounds.
Mind you, Diana's been dead 10 years now, so they need something fill their front page until 2017.
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Anonymous
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Now the portugese police are saaying she's dead.
I don't think they want to put the resources into the case anymore
I don't think they want to put the resources into the case anymore
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I just read this in one of the rags in the butty shop.
Apparently, the 'new' chief of police says she's probably dead, most likely in an accident in the apartment, but even if abducted all the publicity about her distinctive eye etc will have made her such a liability that she will have been killed.
I'm not sure what paper it was, but the 'article' was several pages in after the much more pressing news that some bloke I have never heard of wants a 'romp' with some woman I have never heard of, and that Ricky-off-Eastenders in on holiday somewhere.
Apparently, the 'new' chief of police says she's probably dead, most likely in an accident in the apartment, but even if abducted all the publicity about her distinctive eye etc will have made her such a liability that she will have been killed.
I'm not sure what paper it was, but the 'article' was several pages in after the much more pressing news that some bloke I have never heard of wants a 'romp' with some woman I have never heard of, and that Ricky-off-Eastenders in on holiday somewhere.