The Misandry thread

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#1
As I have been accused of being some sort of men's rights activist I might as well wear the hat and start a well-timed thread in that vein. To kick off, we have the very level-headed 'diversity officer' of Goldsmiths and the fun world her head lives in.

Bahar Mustafa: Goldsmiths diversity officer could lose job after tweeting hashtag 'kill all white men'

The Goldsmiths diversity officer embroiled in a racism row could lose her job after allegedly tweeting with the hashtag "kill all white men".

Bahar Mustafa, the university union's welfare and diversity officer, has received death threats as well as a barrage of abuse after asking white people and men not to come to an event about diversifying the curriculum.


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...with-hashtag-kill-all-white-men-10259801.html
 
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#3
Tell you what, person who reported me, why don't you make a comment about this instead.
 
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#4
Tell you what, person who reported me, why don't you make a comment about this instead.

Also, I'm not sure how I can be trolling XXXXXXXX he's ignoring me. Get a fucking grip.
You could be a bit more diplomatic. I think you were previously trolled by the individual in question but no need to actually mention him in this thread.

Why not edit his name out?

I have the unmentionable one on ignore.
 
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#5
I don't see the point of ignoring anyone. Having been in the frustrating position of being ignored by the unmentionable one (and so not being able to even defend myself when slagged off), it's like being gagged. Goes against the whole point of a messageboard IMO.

Anyway, name edited out as suggested. I am the king of diplomacy.

Now you've got to edit your quote otherwise it won't work :p
 

Shady

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#6
Wonder what would happen if a white person had said kill all black men?.
The womans mouth was in second her brain in first.
And they should get rid of her, bad bad diversity person.
 

RyoHazuki

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#7
If I saw her in the street, I'd identify her as Caucasian. Or, to put it more bluntly, SHE'S WHITE.
 

Xanatic*

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#11
So I can now not be racist unless it is to my advantage? How handy. I'm glad to see there's actually people willing to get her fired.
 

Parabanal

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#12
I find it strange that so many overtly and undoubtedly racist/sexist/anti-LGBTQIA+ women are involved in movements that theoretically should fight the same sentiments, like feminism/anti-racism and so on? How many percent of loudly problematic men make statements like these from a position within "good" movements?
 

Graylien

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#15
There seems to be a disconnect between the type of academic feminism promoted in Universities populated by largely middle class students from relatively 'privileged' backgrounds, and the kind of everyday sexism still experienced by women in the everyday world.

There is, after all, still a big wage disparity between men and women, and still a lack of women represented at board level, in the City, and in politics. But the brand of divisive proselyting of Ms Mustafa and her supporters doesn't really seem to be achieving anything tangible.

I think it's kind of like the way Philosophy is practised in Universities - it's a thriving academic subject, and people can make careers out of teaching it, but it seems to have very little connection with anything else in the 'real' world.
 

Quake42

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#16
I find it strange that so many overtly and undoubtedly racist/sexist/anti-LGBTQIA+ women are involved in movements that theoretically should fight the same sentiments, like feminism/anti-racism and so on?
I'm afraid that it's the logical result of the identity politics and the obsession with self which has taken over much of the political discourse in the Western world. Those shouting loudly about their own "identity" and the real or imagined ways they have been oppressed as a result of it often have little interest in the struggles of others or indeed in wider social change full stop. What began as an entirely laudable movement to allow all people regardless of their sex, ethnicity, sexuality etc to live happily and to reach their full potential has morphed into a very narcissitic and aggressive mindset obsessed with hunting out heresies and pillorying people for using the wrong terminology.

Plus, the fact that most of the major battles are won - women are free to pursue whatever careers they wish, overt racism is rare and quite shocking when we come across it, gay people are protected from discrimination and can marry etc - there is a need for activists to expand the definitions of "racism", "sexism" etc beyond anything sensible.
 

Quake42

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#17
Is there a big wage disparity?
Male and female wages for the same job are pretty identical up until people hit their early 30s. That's the point where women start to have babies and rightly or wrongly the primary childcare responsibilities tend to fall to the women. So many women find their careers stall at this stage because they want to work part time etc.

There's also some evidence that women are less assertive than men in arguing for pay rises - and that they are viewed in a dim light if they do.

Finally, historically professions which are or become female dominated tend to be seen as less prestigious and attract lower wages.

The picture is complicated. But things have progressed a long way from the late 60s when my mother was simply not allowed to be promoted to a management position at the then National Coal Board because it would have involved men reporting to her.
 

Zeke Newbold

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#18
This sort of thing is very depressing and I'm surprised that it's still going on. It's like a throwback to the `Nasty Nineties`.

Let us state the obvious, if indeed it needs stating: you cannot fight chauvinism with further chauvinism, and you cannot combat discrimination with further discrimination.

There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of in being a white male. Indeed, this minority group has often played a very progressive role in the history of humanity - such as in the development of medical technologies which resist diseases and help with disabilities, and so on.

It is only ever social systems, traditions and attitudes that are ever wrong - a person's race or sex can never be wrong.

Let me refer people to a book by a South African philospher called David Benatar: `The Second Sexism`. This was well received by `The New Stateseman ` a few years ago.

I am on the Left and strongly feel that it is this type of selective `Political Correctness` which has a lot to answer for in temrs of alienating many ordinary people from progressive causes.
 
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#19
This sort of thing is very depressing and I'm surprised that it's still going on. It's like a throwback to the `Nasty Nineties`.

Let us state the obvious, if indeed it needs stating: you cannot fight chauvinism with further chauvinism, and you cannot combat discrimination with further discrimination.

There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of in being a white male. Indeed, this minority group has often played a very progressive role in the history of humanity - such as in the development of medical technologies which resist diseases and help with disabilities, and so on.

It is only ever social systems, traditions and attitudes that are ever wrong - a person's race or sex can never be wrong.

Let me refer people to a book by a South African philospher called David Benatar: `The Second Sexism`. This was well received by `The New Stateseman ` a few years ago.

I am on the Left and strongly feel that it is this type of selective `Political Correctness` which has a lot to answer for in temrs of alienating many ordinary people from progressive causes.
Heres the New Statesman piece, the book sounds interesting.

... This month, moral philosopher David Benatar published his book The Second Sexism to an excitable flurry of comment. Before discussing what Benatar says, let’s be quite clear about what he does not.

Despite what you’ve probably read in the Observer, the Guardian, theIndependent or even here in the New Statesman, Benatar is not a Backlashmerchant. He does not argue that men have a worse time than women; that feminism has gone too far; that men are now the oppressed sex; or that sexism against women does not exist. On the contrary, he repeatedly details the many forms of injustice faced by women across the world, and applauds efforts to address them. Indeed the clue is in the title: not “The New Sexism” or “The True Sexism” but “The Second Sexism.” Second, meaning in addition or secondary to the first sexism which is, of course, against women. Benatar does not blame feminism for anti-male discrimination, rightly noting that most such injustices long predate the women’s movement. ...

Nor, BBC Online readers, is Benatar a champion of the Men’s Rights Movement. In the book he notes astutely that men’s groups can become “fora for self-pity and for ventilating hyperbolic views that are not checked or moderated by alternative opinions.” ...

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/lifestyle/2012/05/second-sexism-dont-judge-book-its-press
 

Quake42

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#20
The whole child thing is choice - assuming the father is on the scene theres nothing to stop him working part time, so its not really a gender thing. My mate was all set to give up work as he was not the main wage-earner and look after the kids...after the first one was born his wife decided she didn't want to leave the kids, so the position was reversed and caused some financial re-jigging....that was their choice.
Oh, absolutely it's a choice, but as I say for various reasons it is in the majority of cases the woman who changes her working patterns to fit in with the family responsibilities, and this impacts on the wage differentials between the sexes.

The historical professions interests me - are they less prestigious because they have attracted more women, or have they attracted more women because they are less prestigious and therefore allow more flexibility for looking after a family? I'd guess its a split.
That's the question. There does seem to be evidence that professions which become female dominated when they were not previously start to be seen as less valuable than before and attract less money. Teaching is the classic example but you can see it in office administrative jobs as well.
 

Mythopoeika

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#21
Its like the Women In STEM argument. I've been in IT all my working life. I've never seen anything to stop women working in IT. There are few women developers (form my experience about 1-2%) and a fair number of women testers (I'd say 70/30 in favour of men).
Yes, I've been in IT/software since the 1980s, and I've seen a few changes over the years.
When I started my career, I worked in a computer department for a bank. Probably about half the development staff in the computer department were women. Over the years, I've noticed that fewer women have been drawn to the profession.
I don't think this has happened because of prejudice or a 'glass ceiling'. I think it's because many women have just moved on, and younger women are being drawn to other careers (because they've decided that computers are no longer 'exciting' or - more sensibly - that the career is now a bad deal because of outsourcing and globalisation).
In my own specialist field (technical writing), there are more women than men. However, whenever I've been interviewed, it has mostly been by men (probably got promoted because they've stuck around, not necessarily because they're better). In fact, almost all of the female tech writers I've kept in touch with have left the profession to do other things.
Some of this has to do with getting married and moving away, childbirth and child care, changing interests, boredom with the career, burnout, better paid opportunities elsewhere...I think that women generally have a lot more job/career mobility than men.
 

Cochise

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#22
My experience as a computer programmer / software engineer / whatever is similar. Far more women involved 20-30 years ago than now. Maybe they are simply more astute and realised it was a dead end before us blokes?

It's a pity, because (in my experience of both sexes that I have worked with) the differences between male and female that make, for example, a good family work also make for a good programming team. The women tend to be more meticulous, more prepared to follow the spec, and less of an ego problem if you have to criticise their code. It also encourages the blokes to wash and change their underpants once in a while, also to throw out their empty pizza boxes.
Conversely, it tends to be the blokes who come up with off-the-wall solutions to get the project out of a tight corner.
 

RyoHazuki

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#23
Following on from Zeke, South Africa itself is a primary example of a good way to combat such problems (in general terms at least). The black population had received far more oppression and violation than a faux-ethnic uni student in the UK could even begin to imagine, and arguably did have reason to oppress and violate in return once the power-base had changed. Of course there are still many problems in that country, and the national mindset is still changing, but overall they are still striving for an equality rather than tit-for-tat.
 

Loquaciousness

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#26
As I have been accused of being some sort of men's rights activist I might as well wear the hat and start a well-timed thread in that vein. To kick off, we have the very level-headed 'diversity officer' of Goldsmiths and the fun world her head lives in.
OH so it was you who was being accused of this! I did wonder who a certain person was talking about. Anyway, I have signed the petition, as that is just outrageous. It's wrong to advance your own cause by denegrating another group.
 

Krepostnoi

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#30
Here's an alternative take, drawing on the argument that it's all to do with relative power - what someone (my apologies, I forget who) referred to in another thread as punching up not down. For similar reasons, I'm finding it hard to get too outraged myself about Mustafa's remarks.

Men – be honest. Have you ever found yourself walking home at night, and been stopped in the street by a woman masturbating at you? Or has a woman ever followed you down the street, while shouting that she wants to “shag” you? Likewise, white people: has someone ever followed you around a shop suspiciously? Have the police ever stopped and searched you for no reason? Has someone shouted a racial slur at you, or treated you as somehow inferior to them because of your race?

If you have, then I’m sure you’ll be letting me know. But my guess is that for most of you, the answer is: no, of course you haven’t. Which is why, as a white man, I didn’t really mind when I saw Bahar Mustafa, Goldsmiths’ Diversity Officer, tweet “#KillAllWhiteMen”.
 
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