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The Pizza Thread

blessmycottonsocks said:
A 2,000 year-old fresco recently uncovered in Pompeii shows what looks extremely like a pizza - accompanied by a couple of pineapples.
The latter possibly qualify as OOPARTS, as conventional history tells us that pineapples were first brought to Europe by Columbus in the 16th century.

View attachment 67404

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-possibly-depicts-2000-year-old-form-of-pizza
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That seems to settle the whole 'should we put pineapple with pizza?' argument in my eyes.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
You're right. The commentary describes it as a Focaccia.
Looks like mushrooms and possibly courgette on it. Can't see any tomatoes though.

As for the pineapples, I thought I recalled a report of another fresco from Pompeii showing them, and here it is:

View attachment 67405

In fact, wasn't this featured in the FT last year?
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So... ham and pineapple pizzas have been around from the start?
Time to stop calling it a 'Hawaiian'.
 

Pompeii archaeologists discover 'pizza' painting​





A newly-excavated fresco in Pompeii depicting a flatbread which could be the precursor to the modern-day pizza



Archaeologists in the ancient Roman city of Pompeii have uncovered a painting which depicts what might be the precursor to the Italian pizza.

The flatbread depicted in the 2,000-year-old fresco "may be a distant ancestor of the modern dish", Italy's culture ministry said.
But it lacks the classic ingredients to technically be considered a pizza.

The fresco was found in the hall of a house next to a bakery during recent digs at the site in southern Italy.

The discovery was made this year during new excavations of Regio IX in the centre of Pompeii, one of the nine districts that the ancient site is divided into.

The building was partially excavated in the 19th Century before digging recommenced in January this year - nearly 2,000 years on from the volcanic eruption which engulfed the city.

Archaeologists at the Unesco World Heritage park say the newly-uncovered fresco depicting the flatbread, painted next to a wine goblet, may have been eaten with fruits such as pomegranates or dates, or dressed with spices and a type of pesto sauce.

Pompeii director Gabriel Zuchtriegel said it shows the contrast between a "frugal and simple meal" and the "luxury of silver trays".

"How can we fail to think, in this regard, of pizza, also born as a 'poor' dish in southern Italy, which has now conquered the world and is also served in starred restaurants," he said.

The skeletons of three people were also found near the oven in the working areas of the home in recent weeks, a culture ministry statement added.

The eruption of Mount Vesuvius in AD 79 buried Pompeii in ash, freezing the city and its residents in time. The site has been a rich source for archaeologists since its discovery in the 16th Century.

The site is only about 23km (14 miles) from the city of Naples - the modern day home of the Unesco-protected Italian pizza.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66031341
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
You're right. The commentary describes it as a Focaccia.
Looks like mushrooms and possibly courgette on it. Can't see any tomatoes though.

As for the pineapples, I thought I recalled a report of another fresco from Pompeii showing them, and here it is:
Click to expand...
You won't do.
Tomatoes weren't introduced to Italy until the 14/1500s.

That looks more like a chicken leg to me.
 
Floyd1 said:
You won't do.
Tomatoes weren't introduced to Italy until the 14/1500s.

That looks more like a chicken leg to me.
Click to expand...

In both the pictures, it's the apparent texture on the outside of the object and hint of leaves at the top that is very suggestive of this:

pine.png


Does anyone who keeps their old FTs have access to the article discussing the possibility of pineapples in ancient Rome?
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
A 2,000 year-old fresco recently uncovered in Pompeii shows what looks extremely like a pizza - accompanied by a couple of pineapples.
The latter possibly qualify as OOPARTS, as conventional history tells us that pineapples were first brought to Europe by Columbus in the 16th century.

View attachment 67404

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-possibly-depicts-2000-year-old-form-of-pizza
Click to expand...

The Guardian's Rome correspondent has a go at recreating the 2,000 year old Pompeian pizza, using Focaccia, sheep's cheese, pesto, spring onions, walnuts, figs, salad leaves and pomegranate seeds (but no mention of those anomalous pineapples):

pizza.png




https://www.theguardian.com/food/20...-the-pompeii-pizza-smelled-like-toffee-apples
 
escargot said:
When they were first on sale in Britain there was a tendency to smother them in dried herbs. I disliked them too until all that stopped.
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I don't mind 'white' pizza, as long as it's absolutely smothered in sauce. I'm not a big fan of bread or tomato sauce, which seems to make up 90% of all pizzas.
 
In the U.S. 3 billion pizzas are eaten yearly, or 46 slices per person per year, or 100 acres of pizza daily.

A lot children only eat pizza or chicken nuggets.

My grandkids do not know what a vegetable is except French fried potatoes.

It seemed it didn’t matter since they are growing normally.
 
Floyd1 said:
I must admit I don't enjoy pizzas as much as I used to. I find that after eating them I feel like a big fat lump and yet am still hungry for some reason.
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I'm not supposed to eat frozen pizzas anymore, because of diabetes I think.
 
ramonmercado said:
I'm not supposed to eat frozen pizzas anymore, because of diabetes I think.
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Mythopoeika said:
Fresh ones are so much better?
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I stopped eating frozen ones years ago, but I didn't know that they were worse for you than fresh, it's just that they didn't taste as good.
I've started using fresh pasta as well. A £1.50 bag does me three meals and I don't eat it that often so it's ok pricewise.
Also of course it cooks in 5 minutes.
 
I make my own pasta, bread and pizza bases. However, if one can't be bothered you can get pre-made bases or use flatbreads - if you don't mind UPFoods.
You can, of course, exploit the times when you get the cooking bug and make pizza bases then freeze them ready for use.
 
Stormkhan said:
I make my own pasta, bread and pizza bases. However, if one can't be bothered you can get pre-made bases or use flatbreads - if you don't mind UPFoods.
You can, of course, exploit the times when you get the cooking bug and make pizza bases then freeze them ready for use.
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I have done in the past with varying degrees of success, but I don't really have a good enough oven for pizzas.
Do you use normal plain flour for your bases?
 
For the pizza bases, any strong/bakers flour will do.
Pasta, though, really needs zero-zero flour; I think it's because it's ultra-fine for the texture. You can, however, make gyoza/dim sum 'skins' using ordinary plain flour, so I can't see the problem.
I've always got 0-0 and strong flour in stock all the time.
 
I'd highly recommend getting either a pizza 'stone' - takes ages to get hot but once it's ready, it gives good results - or you can get pizza trays, such as mine which is enamelled metal with holes to transfer the heat.
 
There are all kinds of pizza whole wheat or not, flat or thick, edges stuff with cheese or not, and all kinds of toppings.

I personally am just a plain cheese pizza person.
 
Stormkhan said:
I'd highly recommend getting either a pizza 'stone' - takes ages to get hot but once it's ready, it gives good results - or you can get pizza trays, such as mine which is enamelled metal with holes to transfer the heat.
Click to expand...
I totally agree about the pizza stone.

I'm very interested in bread-making, of all sorts, so my son bought me a pizza stone a couple of years ago, and it's marvellous! I use it for all my cob/cottage type loaves, and our pizzas are as good as take-away ones now :)

Strong bread flour does help in making pizza bases, and use cornmeal/polenta when shaping for that authentic Italian texture.

And don't go too heavy on the toppings!! Toppings are the best bit, and it's very easy to overload the pizza so the base can't rise properly, and goes soggy, whatever you bake it on :)

P.S. If you're interested in bread-making, I can't recommend Elizabeth David's English Bread and Yeast Cookery enough; it was actually reading something in there about how it might be possible to recreate more of an old bread oven effect by putting stone tiles in your oven to bake your bread on, that inspired me to ask for the pizza stone, and the whole book is full of interesting history and recipes.
 
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Fluttermoth said:
And don't go too heavy on the toppings!! Toppings are the best bit, and it's very easy to overload the pizza so the base can't rise properly, and goes soggy, whatever you bake it on :)
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Yes I think it's a very British and American thing to put way too much topping on a pizza.
There are some truly awful videos on youtube that make me feel sick due to vast quantities of cheese and all sorts of other stuff piled on.

I find that less if often more with other things too- very finely sliced cucumber, tomato and onions for eg taste far better than thick slabs.
 
I make the base and, while it's proving, I make passata by forcing a tin of chopped toms through a sieve.
Base, smear of passata, sprinkle of chopped onion, topping of choice (mine's either ham or pepperoni), then a sprinkle of grated mozarella or shredded buffalo mozarella.
Really, I see pizzas as filled flatbread. :)
 
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