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If I discovered them I think I would only tell a biologist. Let them learn enough about the thylacine first to try and help the population increase before the public knew. Guess you would need a top secret clearance biologist so to speak. If I thought the thylacine was in immediate danger if I did not go public(logging etc.) I would go public.

Maybe it would be best if they were discovered in Papa New Quinea or the mainland Australia before Tasmania, because of the media and crazy stampede, if you know what I mean.
 
Oh buy the way I had to look up what a macropod was OR.....LOL
Krissy takes note macropod = kangaroo
 
I found this interview on a radio talk show. Now it's not so much the interview the guy makes some wild claims but where did the talk show host get a sound recording of a thylacine. From everything I have read there were no sound recordings made.

https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/41lazj/tassie_man_claims_thylacine_still_exists/

The host also says he played the sound the day before also but I couldn't find that show either. Maybe you guys will have better luck tracking the source of the sound. That said I guess it could be described as a cough bark.


l found the 'Tasmanian Talks' whilst on a beach holiday this year ( there is another programme with 'Andrew' ) on Tasmanian Talks and found the interview entertaining and interesting to say the least!

Spent most of the holiday educating myself on the Tiger, there are folk out there that there is a Government cover up..... discuss.
 
I would love to know your opinion on what to do in the hypothetical case of Thylacines in Tasmania OR? Would you keep quiet or tell it to the general public?

Hypothetically.

I've thought about it but can't come up with a better answer than

If I discovered them I think I would only tell a biologist. Let them learn enough about the thylacine first to try and help the population increase before the public knew. Guess you would need a top secret clearance biologist so to speak. If I thought the thylacine was in immediate danger if I did not go public(logging etc.) I would go public.

Well said Krissy

In a parallel universe, where the disease hadn't effectively destroyed the population a hundred years ago, and a small but distributed population existed. You'd urgently need to establish corridors, or ensure they were preserved, to allow as many opportunities for as wider exchange of genes as you could manage. You'd need an immediate suspension and review of the 1080 program. You'd need to put in huge amounts of conservation measures. None of which could be hidden from the public.

Plus, they'd need protection, both legal (although they already have that) and physical.

If it was just the last few you came across, then you'd need to grab the chance to find out anything you could about their wild behaviour.

But, in that case here's another question, If you knew they were effectively extinct, and the species wouldn't persist beyond the lives of that few individuals. Would you let the last few specimens live out their lives in the wild. Allowing the possibility that they'd slink off to die and never to be recovered. Or shoot them, and harvest their genetic material in the hope that one day, you could use it to reinstate the species?

I'd be inclined to walk away and leave them. But, I say that as someone who's convinced it's already too late in the real world, so that's colouring my opinions even in a hypothetical case. That'd probably mean condemning the whole species to oblivion. Would that be the most moral choice?

Put another way it might seem different. If you could combat DFTD by shooting and harvesting genetic material from a small group of devils, thereby saving the species from the very real threat of extinction, would you then? I would.

Aside from all that though, we do know how the Tasmanian State Government would react to a highly credible tiger sighting. Because it happened in 1982, when the Naarding sighting sparked a covert year long search for the tiger, plus an extensive review of the scientific literature.
 
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Hi Mungoman,

The thought in my head says, 'why would the Government want to keep this quieter than a dawn service?'...and you know, I don't have an answer for it at all - there's nothing to be gained at all for them by keeping it quiet - and after all's been said and done, they've never had an altruistic bone in their collective bodies yet, so why would they start now?

I agree, I don't think they would either. I really don't. From an altruistic point of view I don't think it'd be any anyone's interest. Be they pouched or pocketed. Politically, I can imagine the tiger would make one hell of a big stick to beat each other with. Granted, there's the specter of certain vested economic interest, but again, I don't think this'd sway it. Besides which, and I'm not sure what it's like in Australia, here, I think if one side knew it the other would too.

Economically, there'd be an impact. But I'm not sure which way that'd go.

But while saying the above, you do hear anecdotally that there's some weird stuff out there in the bush, and I've experienced and seen oddities that still leave me scratching my head, and I realise that there's no way I'll get the good oil on what I've seen, ever - all I can say is that if ever confirmation is released about the Thylacine being still there in Tassie, it won't surprise me - even confirmation that they're on the mainland for that matter.

I'd be interested to hear your experiences, the echidna was amazing. I still urge you to report that.

I never expect to hear of them being found in Tasmania, judging by new research into the presentation of the disease, it was too widespread. As I've probably said elsewhere here, I think the death blow was late 19th early 20th C. And what we saw in the twenties and thirties was the species in a functionally extinct state.

Harking back to Krissies idea about leeches, and doing pathology testing on 'em in those specific areas where the Thylacine is reported, and has been reported, seems like a fair idea to me, but knowing some of the jokers and weekend warriors out there who wouldn't think twice about going out there with their .243's and their .308's just to knock over a Thylacine, I don't reckon that it would be a good idea to release any reports done on testing.

We had a situation here with the red kite, pushed to the brink of extinction by, among other things, illegal killing and egg collectors. The RSPB contacted the army who sent the SAS, Gurkhas (who are billeted nearby) and the TA's to guard the nesting sites. Apparently the MOD treated it as a training exercise in surveillance. Anyway, egg collecting dropped right off after that.
 
l found the 'Tasmanian Talks' whilst on a beach holiday this year ( there is another programme with 'Andrew' ) on Tasmanian Talks and found the interview entertaining and interesting to say the least!

Spent most of the holiday educating myself on the Tiger, there are folk out there that there is a Government cover up..... discuss.

The conspiracy angle has been around for years. It's the classic cryptozoological whinge, when people don't say what you want them to. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny though.

Firstly, the position of the Tasmanian Government has always appeared a bit ambiguous. Phrases like 'presumed extinct' were the norm in government sources which mentioned the tiger. And the level of legal protection has never, as far as I know right up till now, been relaxed. There's been a discussion of this here a few years ago when they started to consider relaxing them.

Secondly, until fairly recently tiger reports were officially investigated, and by a man whose reputation is pretty much as beyond reproach as you could want, Nick Mooney. Mooney is a man who's working life has been spent conserving Tasmanian wildlife. An exceptionally straight man, not afraid of controversy (see the Tasmanian Fox Task Force) and a man who makes probably one of the worst candidates as a stooge as you could imagine.

He headed the field research into the Naarding sighting. Which was an extensive, but the last major, government funded search. Why would they do that if they already knew it was there? Plus, Mooney officially investigated reports far later than that, at least into the late 90's. And, while remaining sceptical, was willing to make public any potentially significant report. The poachers account for example.

Thirdly, Mr Thylacine himself Eric Guiler, the man who once headed the Tasmanin Animals and Birds Protection Board, was a lecturer at the Tasmanian University, and awarded membership of the Order of Australia. In fact, the single most high profile thylacine researcher of all time, and one who was clearly given official recognition. Spent his working life publicly stating that he believed the tiger was still extant.

It's impossible to imagine that Guiler wouldn't have been aware of the tiger's existence were it known. He would either have to have been part of the conspiracy, or at the very least aware of it. Yet, he spent years searching. Until in 2002 he suffered a stroke actually out in the field looking for the tiger at the age of 79 (or 80). Again, why would he do that if he already knew it existed?

Lastly, there's Maria Island. This is the island off the east coast of Tasmania, that's now a national park, and is currently used as a sanctuary for a reserve population of devils uninfected by DFTD. Initially though it was earmarked for thylacines. Sources vary, but some, including Guiler himself I think, stated that the island was available to house any captured tigers. Fleay was the first to propose the idea, but, again I'm going just on memory, it was made available to Guiler. So again, this doesn't tally with the idea that the government was keeping quiet about anything, as it was openly offering a refuge for potential surviving thylacines.

So, in summary. If there had been a conspiracy, it'd mean that at least two of the most important thylacine researchers would have to have conducted their entire careers either unaware of it, which is impossible. Or, acing as fronts for it, which is implausible. Especially given the time they spent investigating the issue.

The government itself, would have to have both sanctioned at least one widespread search into a secret they were keeping. While maintaining a position, which at the very least, might encourage a belief among the public that the very thing they were concealing was a possibility. How likely does that sound?
 
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Hi Mungoman,



I agree, I don't think they would either. I really don't. From an altruistic point of view I don't think it'd be any anyone's interest. Be they pouched or pocketed. Politically, I can imagine the tiger would make one hell of a big stick to beat each other with. Granted, there's the specter of certain vested economic interest, but again, I don't think this'd sway it. Besides which, and I'm not sure what it's like in Australia, here, I think if one side knew it the other would too.

Economically, there'd be an impact. But I'm not sure which way that'd go.



I'd be interested to hear your experiences, the echidna was amazing. I still urge you to report that.

I never expect to hear of them being found in Tasmania, judging by new research into the presentation of the disease, it was too widespread. As I've probably said elsewhere here, I think the death blow was late 19th early 20th C. And what we saw in the twenties and thirties was the species in a functionally extinct state.



We had a situation here with the red kite, pushed to the brink of extinction by, among other things, illegal killing and egg collectors. The RSPB contacted the army who sent the SAS, Gurkhas (who are billeted nearby) and the TA's to guard the nesting sites. Apparently the MOD treated it as a training exercise in surveillance. Anyway, egg collecting dropped right off after that.


G'day Oldrover.

The rationale of any government departments, and the self seen importance and therefore consideredpriority by those various departments negates any rational thinking on my part to ascertain why and what they're doing. Ever. But I realise that some departments work on a 'need to know' basis - dependant, of course, on such matters as National significance or security.

Why the admission or denial of extant Thylacine colonies is a matter of National significance is something that flies well above my head - suffice it to say, once again, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that is how the Australian Federal Government would work it.

It is known intellectually that the Thylacine once walked upon the mainland many centuries ago, and it is also thought that the last Thylacine lived out its existence in a miserable cage in a zoo sometime in the 1930's.

Knowing certain species, once considered extinct that have been found many decades later; Gilberts Potoroo, the Desert Rat Kangaroo, the Bridled Nailtail Wallaby, the Noisy Scrub Bird and the Night Parrot to mention 5 species out of 67 species once thought extinct, and also knowing the topography and characteristics of the Australian wilderness - especially that of the Western coast of Tasmania - leaves me in a hopeful mood that the retiring and demure Thylacine is still to be seen and heard on this planet of ours.

My experiences that I have experienced and recounted here are due to, I suppose, being in the right place, and what has led me to be in the right place is a need/want to be in situations unusual, and plain old happenstance. I've had the experience of talking to and listening to the Old people about those things that I'm allowed to know, and in inference, those subjects which I'm 'too young' to know of.

One situation was being on top of one of our mountains of a night time and being spooked out of my mind, plus any rationality, by the atmosphere of the place. I think that searching under Pan will bring it up, another was seeing a large quadruped, stalking up one of the gullies at my Dad and Mums property for a period of 5 minutes at least, while observing it through a telescopic sight mounted on a .22 as a teenager, knowing that what I was seeing I had never seen before [ search under A.B.C's]. I had a village 'appear' in front of myself and my Mum at the same property and observed it for 10 minutes or so before it disappeared [I.H.T.M]. I came across a bloody big cat paw print out at a place called Lake Mungo which was at least 3 inches across. A UFO experience that I can still see in my mind that happened nearly 40 years ago, plus many experiences that are more mundane...or maybe I should call them non-fortean, like the large echidna that crossed the road.

The strange thing is though, that most of my odd experiences were on the Southern Tablelands of NSW where we have a lake that will fill up, or drain out over night [Lake George], and apart from the minmin lights of north west it has the most credited UFO sightings [apart from Bass Strait] documented. A strange old place indeed.

I know that most of my experiences were due to where I was, out bush, rather than in the cities, and if I had a literary bent, I certainly could write an odd story or two about large cats, terrifying legendary figures, or time travelling villages - but I haven't, so I won't.
 
Hypothetically.

I've thought about it but can't come up with a better answer than



Well said Krissy

In a parallel universe, where the disease hadn't effectively destroyed the population a hundred years ago, and a small but distributed population existed. You'd urgently need to establish corridors, or ensure they were preserved, to allow as many opportunities for as wider exchange of genes as you could manage. You'd need an immediate suspension and review of the 1080 program. You'd need to put in huge amounts of conservation measures. None of which could be hidden from the public.

Plus, they'd need protection, both legal (although they already have that) and physical.

If it was just the last few you came across, then you'd need to grab the chance to find out anything you could about their wild behaviour.

But, in that case here's another question, If you knew they were effectively extinct, and the species wouldn't persist beyond the lives of that few individuals. Would you let the last few specimens live out their lives in the wild. Allowing the possibility that they'd slink off to die and never to be recovered. Or shoot them, and harvest their genetic material in the hope that one day, you could use it to reinstate the species?

I'd be inclined to walk away and leave them. But, I say that as someone who's convinced it's already too late in the real world, so that's colouring my opinions even in a hypothetical case. That'd probably mean condemning the whole species to oblivion. Would that be the most moral choice?

Put another way it might seem different. If you could combat DFTD by shooting and harvesting genetic material from a small group of devils, thereby saving the species from the very real threat of extinction, would you then? I would.

Aside from all that though, we do know how the Tasmanian State Government would react to a highly credible tiger sighting. Because it happened in 1982, when the Naarding sighting sparked a covert year long search for the tiger, plus an extensive review of the scientific literature.

Well if you found a small population of tigers I think it would be best to try and save them. The USA did this with the condor, they decided to capture all remaining wild birds(only 27 of them)to breed in captivity, then release back into the wild. The effort has proved a success their are just over 400 condors now (wild and captive). The condor has suffered a genetic bottle neck but they are still here and hopefully continue to be.

Capturing all wild tigers though I think would be difficult. It does go to show that even a smaller number of animals than you think could still make it.

As for the devil the disease seems to transmit from one to another so it is a different situation you would need an isolated group free of disease and protect them until the disease has passed.
 
Just a little heads up tonight in the UK at 2300hrs on Animal Planet 'Extinct or Alive? - The Tasmanian Tiger', this l believe was the program that had the facts that were incorrect regarding the time scale regarding Tigers in the wild, so for those who did not manage to catch it last time around can do so this time, and maybe share a few thoughts.

Just seen this programme. I have to say it is the worst thing on the tiger I've ever seen. I counted one correct fact being related, that it 46 teeth. Other than that it was absolute crap. The wanker giving the voice over actually described it as 'taking babies out of their mother's arms*', and 'insanely viscous'. No it wasn't, we were.

*This was actually said by either Mooney or Guiler, can't remember which, as an example of how stupidly hysterical some people's attitudes had become in period leading up to the bounty.

It starts off, as you pointed out before Andy, showing a 'researcher' showing a photo of Batty's thylacine from 1930, and claiming it was from 1953. And ended with the voice over asking if the tiger was waiting in the shadows, gathering in numbers for the 'deadliest second act the world has ever seen'.

Really? attack of the shy collie sized animals doesn't seem that deadly to me.
 
Cheers OR, that will save me some time from watching it. I was skeptical about giving it a go after reading: "The movie follows a trio of conservationists and wildlife experts on their mission to Tasmania to investigate possible sightings of the Tasmanian tiger, one of the most terrifying predators ever to walk the earth." But if they described the Thylacine as "insanely vicious", that's the icing on the cake.

Unfortunately this isn't the first time nor will it be the last time this magnificent animal is described in such fashion..
 
Yeah, it was insulting. One of the trio was Nick Mooney, it was quite noticeable that at no point was his opinion on the matter given.
 
Cheers OR, that will save me some time from watching it. I was skeptical about giving it a go after reading: "The movie follows a trio of conservationists and wildlife experts on their mission to Tasmania to investigate possible sightings of the Tasmanian tiger, one of the most terrifying predators ever to walk the earth." But if they described the Thylacine as "insanely vicious", that's the icing on the cake.

Unfortunately this isn't the first time nor will it be the last time this magnificent animal is described in such fashion..

I have noticed that even recent articles on the thylacine describe it as The Beast and don't understand why it weighed less than 100 lb. If I had to choose which animal to personally run into in the woods(bush) tiger(I mean the cat kind), lion or the thylacine. I would choose the thylacine.
 
You can tell from the stance it's 95% certainly a fox despite the terrible quality, video should confirm it's 100% fox... What's so sad is that he is absolutely convinced his 2nd video (2008 one) is a Thylacine when it clearly isn't.The woman who shot it shouldn't be taken seriously and she came across arrogant and aggressive in some of her comments regarding the video.

His theory that Thylacines on the mainland have longer metatarsals doesn't hold water (no pun intended).
 
Can't believe all the rubbish that is being spouted right now, i would get myself banned from the group if i stepped up and answered to each incorrect posts about this majestic animal. It's a great shame really as there is always the odd decent eyewitness account in there sometimes but with all the disinformation that is going on from some particular members, no sighting can be taken seriously anymore.

I have been thinking about this for quite a while Krissy and that's a real possibility.
 
'Benjamin', although discredited as ever having been used in the animal's lifetime, was a handy term for the 'last captive thylacine'. Now it seems it's totally redundant. Not only is there now, and there always should have been, doubt about the Fleay film being of the last captive tiger, it's not even clear it's of the Churchill animal.

So, given that it's a name coined in the sixties, is it applied to the tiger in the Fleay film, or for the animal that died on 7/9/1936?
 
Well, this is getting interesting. From the person who took the picture: "What I saw was more grey than tan, but I'm quite sure it was a Tassie Tiger!" I'm sure you will love that quote OR.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3989152/South-Australian-mum-swears-saw-Tasmanian-tiger.html

Oh yes. There is a genuine mystery here as far as I'm concerned. Why is the British gutter press so obsessed with a fringe Aussie's FB page, which has only got 3,107 members?

Christ, it's a tiny group, almost a tenth of the size of my 'blue chip' comparison test group, 'Things for free/swap/sale/in Carmarthenshire'. What the hell is the attraction?
 
There is a journalist from it who has been following the group closely for some reason. Posted a similar article a few days ago after someone posted a trail cam photo of what is clearly a fox.

This one really got my attention though as the witness describes a grey animal and the hocks appear pretty low for once.
 
A grey fox! Never thought they could be that colour..

You are probably right, the angle is terrible to assess the height of the hocks and it looks particularly skinny but i wondered why the lady described it as "prehistoric looking".
 
Just by looking at the images on-line (my local fox population seems thankfully very healthy, I've never seen a mangy one) with mange a grey colour doesn't seem uncommon.

Incidentally, I understand that your foxes in mainland Europe are taller but slighter than ours here. I didn't realise that.
 

I've just spent 20 minutes at that site oldrover and have come to the conclusion that they are people, that no matter what, have such a strong, heartfelt desire for the Tassie Tiger to be extant, that any out of focus photo of a fox with sarcoptic mange will do. Logic must needs be left at the front door.

Sad really, because I'm not sure, myself, that the Tassie Tiger is extinct.
 
You can tell from the stance it's 95% certainly a fox despite the terrible quality, video should confirm it's 100% fox... What's so sad is that he is absolutely convinced his 2nd video (2008 one) is a Thylacine when it clearly isn't.The woman who shot it shouldn't be taken seriously and she came across arrogant and aggressive in some of her comments regarding the video.

His theory that Thylacines on the mainland have longer metatarsals doesn't hold water (no pun intended).

G'day Vince, the metatarsal bones, their dimensions and formation are the first physical evidence I look at whenever a photo of a supposed Tassie Tiger is unearthed, so it's very convenient of them to say that a mainland example has longer metatarsals - it covers all bases if the photo is blurred, out of focus &c.
 
Just by looking at the images on-line (my local fox population seems thankfully very healthy, I've never seen a mangy one) with mange a grey colour doesn't seem uncommon.

Incidentally, I understand that your foxes in mainland Europe are taller but slighter than ours here. I didn't realise that.

I've seen the poor little buggers oldrover, and they are definitely not red and in some light, could be misconstrued as grey - they're mainly shiny wrinkled skin, with bare raw bloody patches where they've 'eaten' [manger] themselves to relieve their itch.

Around our way [Goulburn], the wombats were the major sufferers of this most horrid condition, and I can only assume that the foxes caught it by inhabiting spare wombat burrows.
 
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