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Thylacines (Post-1936 Sightings)

The Naarding report; is it new? how good is it? I don't have access to much of anything.
 
Brig said:
Krissy: Have you tried finding your books on Amazon or Edward R. Hamilton-Bookseller. Both are quick and reliable and generally priced below market.
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Oh no I haven't tried that. Thanks Brig, another place to look for books.
 
oldrover said:
For those with access to the ITV player, Ray Mears' programme from Tasmania is available now. Some lovely shots of the devil, plus a nice interview with Nick Mooney from the site of the Naarding sighting. Which Mooney describes as spooky.
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What is the name of the show? Wait I just found it on netflix. Ray Mears anyway there is like 9 episodes, so I hope one of them is the one your talking about.
 
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I haven't heard of the Naarding sighting. What happened there?
 
Brig said:
I haven't heard of the Naarding sighting. What happened there?
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The Naarding's is the most important post 1936 sighting. It happened in 1982 near a place called Togari* in NW Tasmania. Naarding was a wildlife biologist, and was in the area doing a study of the local bird life, he'd been sleeping in his Landcruiser at the roadside when after being awoken by heavy rain at around 02:00 he decided to use his spotlight to quickly sweep the area immediately surrounding his vehicle.

Naarding tells that his light came to rest on a large male tiger, sandy brown coat, with twelve dark stripes. He also observed a yellow eye shine, and reported that the animal at one time opened its mouth and hissed.

After watching it for some minutes he decided to try for a photograph and reached for his camera, in doing so though he had to take his light off the animal, as his camera was in a bag at his feet. After retrieving his camera he shone his light back to where the animal had been only to see it disappear into the bush.

Photo at the bottom of the page at the link shows where he was parked
http://www.naturalworlds.org/thylacine/history/expeditions/expeditions_and_searches_12.htm

He got out of the car and tried to follow but no luck, nor were there any prints found, but bear in mind it was belting down.

The sighting was kept quiet for the next two years while a major government search took place. The search was headed up by Nick Mooney, and in his own words he failed to find any evidence that he was happy with. This was the last major official search. And four years later the tiger was declared extinct.

Wile Naarding's sighting seems to follow the usual pattern of alleged sightings, where hard evidence is just out of reach because..., personally I don't think that's case. Naarding has never changed his story, doesn't believe the tiger is still out there, and has never tried to profit from his account. I think he's 100% genuine.

As Mooney said in an interview in the 90's on the Chris PacKham documentary 'Beyond the Jaws of Extinction', in the circumstances a mistake couldn't have been made. So it's down to Naarding's veracity. Which as I say, I personally don't doubt. I'm not sure if I agree with Mooney though that a mistake is impossible, I think that's a bit of a sweeping statement, and we know that even trained observers can make errors. And that's the only way I can explain it.

I don't believe Naarding was lying, and I don't think anyone else does either, but based on the evidence as I interpret it I cannot see a thylacine being alive in 1982. The Naarding sighting is an anomaly I can't explain except by considering the above.

*Togari is very, very near to the famous Woolnorth, which was prime tiger country. It was also one of the areas foccused on by the Guiler search of 1980-81.
 
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krissy97 said:
What is the name of the show? Wait I just found it on netflix. Ray Mears anyway there is like 9 episodes, so I hope one of them is the one your talking about.
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He's made hundreds of programmes, my favourite apart from the devil one, was his recent series in the U.S. Anyway, the one you want is 'Ray Mears Close Encounters: Tasmanian Devil'. You never know it might be on-line.
 
Andy Saunders said:
Any links anybody to the Chis Packham documentary 'Beyond the jaws of extinction'?:)
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I finally found it but unfortunately I can't post a link cause it's on netflix. If you have netflix search the x creatures, it is season 1 episode 6 "beyond the jaws of extinction."

Who is uncle junior?
 
I guess I'm simply a romantic. I sincerely hope the "tiger" still exists. And either way I favor bringing it back. After all WE are the reason it's gone, if it actually is. Same is true of the passenger pidgeon. Thanks for the great explaination.
 
Brig said:
I guess I'm simply a romantic. I sincerely hope the "tiger" still exists. And either way I favor bringing it back. After all WE are the reason it's gone, if it actually is. Same is true of the passenger pidgeon. Thanks for the great explaination.
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I share your hope that it still exists but I don't favour bringing it back if it doesn't. I think it is unethical. After all, just because it has stripes, doesn't mean it's a tiger. Why not? Well who can teach it to be a tiger? It will be an animal in a cage with no clue what to do with itself. Same with the poor pigeon which suffered more than enough the first time around. Plus there is the fact that we still can't be trusted with the animals we still have.
 
min_bannister said:
I share your hope that it still exists but I don't favour bringing it back if it doesn't. I think it is unethical. After all, just because it has stripes, doesn't mean it's a tiger. Why not? Well who can teach it to be a tiger? It will be an animal in a cage with no clue what to do with itself. Same with the poor pigeon which suffered more than enough the first time around. Plus there is the fact that we still can't be trusted with the animals we still have.
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Absolutely. That's the sad truth.
 
krissy97 said:
Who is uncle junior?
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Junior Soprano.
 
Brig said:
I guess I'm simply a romantic. I sincerely hope the "tiger" still exists. And either way I favor bringing it back. After all WE are the reason it's gone, if it actually is. Same is true of the passenger pidgeon. Thanks for the great explaination.
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Here! Here!

The Tiger is so unique we HAVE to bring it back....... if it has indeed gone.:)
 
Andy Saunders said:
Here! Here!

The Tiger is so unique we HAVE to bring it back....... if it has indeed gone.:)
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The problem Andy is it would have none of its uniqueness as it wouldn't behave like one.. that is in the unlikely event they manage to clone one.

Also i can't even imagine how sad it would look like walking around in a cage, only this time in color.

I'm sorry to say but cloning one is a no no for me.
 
I think you are probably right. At least, I hope so. There are legitimite reasons to dislike cloning, yet on the other hand I think some of these problems could be eliminated. In the case of the mammoth the Russians have already readied a place for it that is more extensive than some countries. Extinct is forever, unless cloning is possible. The passenger pidgeon could be introduced into existing flocks of very similar pidgeons. In this day, I doubt anyone would allow a successful cloning be permanently penned up. I think there are solutions to the problems.
 
I think we should give more credit to an animals natural instincts, to say that there is no way it could act naturally because it is a clone doesn't make sense to me. Have you ever seen the movie "Born Free" it is a true story, not a clone of course but raised by people and released into the wild(it was a lion her name was Elsa). Christian the lion born in London(in captivity) raised by people then released into the wild, you can look Christian and Elsa up on wikpedia.

About a year ago a tiger escaped from a zoo in Mexico. Again born in captivity but yet they never recaptured him even though of course they tried just caught him on trail cameras and he appeared well fed and healthy after months on his own. He knew how to hunt without any help from us. A year later and he is still out there in the wild(not in the right country to find a mate though).

So I guess my point is any animal has natural instincts even a clone, because even animals just raised by people born the normal way have it cloning won't change that part.
 
krissy97 said:
I think we should give more credit to an animals natural instincts, to say that there is no way it could act naturally because it is a clone doesn't make sense to me. Have you ever seen the movie "Born Free" it is a true story, not a clone of course but raised by people and released into the wild(it was a lion her name was Elsa). Christian the lion born in London(in captivity) raised by people then released into the wild, you can look Christian and Elsa up on wikpedia.

About a year ago a tiger escaped from a zoo in Mexico. Again born in captivity but yet they never recaptured him even though of course they tried just caught him on trail cameras and he appeared well fed and healthy after months on his own. He knew how to hunt without any help from us. A year later and he is still out there in the wild(not in the right country to find a mate though).

So I guess my point is any animal has natural instincts even a clone, because even animals just raised by people born the normal way have it cloning won't change that part.
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You may well be right. By the way, I was fascinated with Elsa the lioness when I was a kid, at six I named my cat after her. The thing is though with Christian and Elsa, they're lions, there are plenty of other lions about to learn just what it is you need to do to prepare it for being released into the wild. Both Esla and Christian were reintegrated into the wild by George Adamson, and in Elsa's case his wife Joy, alongside other lions at the compound set up by Adamsons.

In the case of a thylacine, they'd need to start from scratch.

But that's not the biggest problem as far as I see it. The Thylacinidae diverged from the rest of the Dasyuromorphia at least as far back as the late Oligocene, so over 23 million years ago. The Dasyuridae, are proposed as being a sister group to the Thylacinidae, and within the Dasyuridae the Dasyurinae, including the quolls and devils are seen as their closest relatives. But are they close enough?

How developed was the thylacine placenta? What hormones regulated, gestation, birth time development? Are they compatible with a potential host? How the hell do we find out? Even with a complete genome would that go toward answering these questions. We don't anything about even something as basic as how many young a tiger gave birth to.
 
: 1639652, member: 26719"]You may well be right. By the way, I was fascinated with Elsa the lioness when I was a kid, at six I named my cat after her. The thing is though with Christian and Elsa, they're lions, there are plenty of other lions about to learn just what it is you need to do to prepare it for being released into the wild. Both Esla and Christian were reintegrated into the wild by George Adamson, and in Elsa's case his wife Joy, alongside other lions at the compound set up by Adamsons.

In the case of a thylacine, they'd need to start from scratch.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you can't just kick them out into the wild and hope for the best. It can take years to habituate animals back to the wild. Some can never go back.
 
Kissy does make valid points. I think an actual attempt could be made to reintroduce cryptid tigers back into the wild. May need to produce several to be released at the same time. Anyway we wiped them out so it's our responsibility to bring them back and there is ample areas where it could be accomplished. So what if they did run into a genuine wild one. All the better for the species.
 
krissy97 said:
About a year ago a tiger escaped from a zoo in Mexico. Again born in captivity but yet they never recaptured him even though of course they tried just caught him on trail cameras and he appeared well fed and healthy after months on his own. ... A year later and he is still out there in the wild ..
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Yet another reason never to go as a tourist to Mexico.
 
I've been to Mexico a couple of times. Frankly, an no insult intended, there is really not a lot to go there for that you cannot find in Texas. In Mexico if the druggies don't get you the blood sucking insects will. The same can be said for Florida, for that matter.
 
Brig said:
I've been to Mexico a couple of times. Frankly, an no insult intended, there is really not a lot to go there for that you cannot find in Texas. In Mexico if the druggies don't get you the blood sucking insects will. The same can be said for Florida, for that matter.
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Sounds like Skewen.
 
krissy97 said:
I just found a fascinating show about cloning, no matter your personal opinion about cloning you should watch this.

https://www.ted.com/talks/stewart_brand_the_dawn_of_de_extinction_are_you_ready

I found it jaw dropping what they can already do. They do mention the thylacine but mostly talk about the passenger pigeon.

I also found Ray Mears close encounters Tasmanian devil on youtube.
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Watched this video last night. Thanks for posting it Krissy.

The idea of altered chickens giving birth to falcons was amazing.

As for the idea of cloning the mammoth, why the hell would anyone consider doing that, that really is unethical and unnecessary.

In the photo of the conference there were a couple of faces that I recognised. One was Mike Archer of the thylacine cloning project, the other was Mary Schweitzer, the palaeontologist who first discovered soft tissue preserved in dinosaur fossils. It was actually in a Tyrannosaurus rex, many more such examples have been found since. I hope they're not thinking of cloning one of those. Before anyone says it, I know they don't have DNA.

I think the idea of trying to resurrect extinct animals lost by our actions in the recent past is great, but not while there are highly endangered species on the brink now. As much as I hate to say it, I think sod the thylacine while the devil is in jeopardy. Unless we can protect what we have now what's the point?
 
min_bannister said:
: 1639652, member: 26719"]You may well be right. By the way, I was fascinated with Elsa the lioness when I was a kid, at six I named my cat after her. The thing is though with Christian and Elsa, they're lions, there are plenty of other lions about to learn just what it is you need to do to prepare it for being released into the wild. Both Esla and Christian were reintegrated into the wild by George Adamson, and in Elsa's case his wife Joy, alongside other lions at the compound set up by Adamsons.

In the case of a thylacine, they'd need to start from scratch.
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Yes, you can't just kick them out into the wild and hope for the best. It can take years to habituate animals back to the wild. Some can never go back.[/QUOTE]

I would never even suggest just kicking them out into the wild, any attempt at release would take a lot of dedication and passion from the people attempting to do it but I do believe those types of people exist. I don't even think a clone would be released because first you would need a captive breeding population from the clones before you could even think about release.

And then of course as OR points out can we even clone one? Only time will answer that question.

But then of course leave it to me to come up with a crazy idea hypothetical of course. Lets say they still exist, we clone a female and take her for walks like they did with the lions to get her familiar with being in the bush. When she comes into season a very elusive male shows up(your never going to get a better lure than a female) and you end up with baby thylacines. You now have your proof that they exist cause you only cloned one and a way to start a captive breeding population, a place to begin much needed research to understand a restore this species. OK I think that makes me a hopeless romantic.
 
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