A
Tunguska
- Thread starter Anonymous
- Start date
-
- Tags
- tunguska
New Tunguska theory
Novosibirsk - Sept 2, 2002: A geologist from Novosibirsk has set up a new hypothesis of the explosion in Podkamennaya Tunguska, which took place on June 30, 1908. It was not a meteorite that caused such extensive destructions and conflagration, but a fluid jet, which had shot up under high pressure from the interior of the Earth...
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/deepimpact-02q.html
Novosibirsk - Sept 2, 2002: A geologist from Novosibirsk has set up a new hypothesis of the explosion in Podkamennaya Tunguska, which took place on June 30, 1908. It was not a meteorite that caused such extensive destructions and conflagration, but a fluid jet, which had shot up under high pressure from the interior of the Earth...
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/deepimpact-02q.html
A
Anonymous
Guest
The Tungus Event
I've been fascinated by the Tungus Event for a good many years, and have read a couple of books on it. One of them was called The Fire Came By.
I think this latest theory is quite a reasonable one. Actually I don't think this is quite a new theory, as I heard a couple of years ago about the explosion being due to a massive outgassing of ten billion tons of natural gas.
Either way I think a natural earthbound theory is better than a UFO/spaceship explanation for this classic Fortean event. On the other hand, there are many eyewitness accounts of a cigar-shaped object crossing the plains of India and the Steppe of Russia prior to the cataclysmic detonation. Don't forget that this is not an ancient event - it occurred less than a century ago.
I guess we can be thankful for one thing. If that had occurred at the height of the Cold War, it would probably have been interpreted as a pre-emptive nuclear strike, to be answered by massive nuclear retaliation.
God is merciful.
Thanks for your post.
Big Bill Robinson
I've been fascinated by the Tungus Event for a good many years, and have read a couple of books on it. One of them was called The Fire Came By.
I think this latest theory is quite a reasonable one. Actually I don't think this is quite a new theory, as I heard a couple of years ago about the explosion being due to a massive outgassing of ten billion tons of natural gas.
Either way I think a natural earthbound theory is better than a UFO/spaceship explanation for this classic Fortean event. On the other hand, there are many eyewitness accounts of a cigar-shaped object crossing the plains of India and the Steppe of Russia prior to the cataclysmic detonation. Don't forget that this is not an ancient event - it occurred less than a century ago.
I guess we can be thankful for one thing. If that had occurred at the height of the Cold War, it would probably have been interpreted as a pre-emptive nuclear strike, to be answered by massive nuclear retaliation.
God is merciful. Thanks for your post.
Big Bill Robinson
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
???
A Hydrogen bomb releases energy by fusing hydrogen to helium (under the intense heat and pressure created by an atom bomb).
Although helium can be fused to form still heavier elements, this requires even more extreme conditions. Presumably the helium was most compressed while still beneath the earth, so any nuclear reaction should have occured underground (if possible at all), and not in the atmosphere when the pressure would have been dropping rapidly.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Noticed the helium thing myself when I looked at the website this morning. (All part of my daily ritual 
) It immediately raised an "iffy" flag. You can get helium to fuse. This is what happens in the rather more elderly stars. Nobody has demonstrated a weapon, however, which utilises helium, as the requirements to kick it off are too extreme (and the standard H-bomb works just fine.) Given that it requires a massive fission explosion to initiate a fusion weapon, it seems a little unlikely that the far more extreme requirements for helium fusion are going to be found in an explosion of natural gas.
I was almost willing to believe the theory up 'till this point. A *large* hyperbaric detonation *might* cause some of the damage seen at Tunguska, but someone with a scientific background is unlikely to suggest that it initiated fusion in pockets of helium.
) It immediately raised an "iffy" flag. You can get helium to fuse. This is what happens in the rather more elderly stars. Nobody has demonstrated a weapon, however, which utilises helium, as the requirements to kick it off are too extreme (and the standard H-bomb works just fine.) Given that it requires a massive fission explosion to initiate a fusion weapon, it seems a little unlikely that the far more extreme requirements for helium fusion are going to be found in an explosion of natural gas. I was almost willing to believe the theory up 'till this point. A *large* hyperbaric detonation *might* cause some of the damage seen at Tunguska, but someone with a scientific background is unlikely to suggest that it initiated fusion in pockets of helium.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 455
Underground gas theory quite plausible
This underground gas theory is quite plausible. Not quite as interesting as some of the more exotic theories, but not hard to take seriously.
Out-gasings are a proposed solution for a number of Fortean mysteries, such as the strange lights occasionally seen on the Moon by astronomers amateur and professional, and also a possible explanation for strange disappearances of ships--the gas would make the ship sink like a stone due to a change in the buoyancy of the water.
One thing which worries me is the possibility of a major disruption of methane by an undersea volcano, or rock-slide, or even a meteorite hit. Unlikely events, but catastrophic if they occur. There is a whole side of a volcano in the Azores (or possibly it was the Canaries) which could come down in the next century or so. If it did, the resulting waves would be catastrophic on both sides of the Atlantic.
Mind you, if global warming continues at the present rate, we will have the melting of the tundra permafrost to worry about--once it starts to go, the methane released will snowball (ironic word), because methane is a powerful greenhouse gas.
There have been something like 400 meteorite strikes over the last few decades large enough to be mistaken for an atomic bomb. Fortunately, the nuclear powers don't startle every time there is an explosion in the upper atmosphere and have kept mum on most of them so as to not disturb the populace.
There is some concern over the newer nuclear powers, who lack the money and technology of the Great Powers. An explosion last year over the Mediterranean was in the same neighbourhood as the bombs dropped at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A few hours later and it could have happened over Pakistan or India.
As Homer Simpson says, "Me work at a nuclear power plant? Ka-boom!"
This underground gas theory is quite plausible. Not quite as interesting as some of the more exotic theories, but not hard to take seriously.
Out-gasings are a proposed solution for a number of Fortean mysteries, such as the strange lights occasionally seen on the Moon by astronomers amateur and professional, and also a possible explanation for strange disappearances of ships--the gas would make the ship sink like a stone due to a change in the buoyancy of the water.
One thing which worries me is the possibility of a major disruption of methane by an undersea volcano, or rock-slide, or even a meteorite hit. Unlikely events, but catastrophic if they occur. There is a whole side of a volcano in the Azores (or possibly it was the Canaries) which could come down in the next century or so. If it did, the resulting waves would be catastrophic on both sides of the Atlantic.
Mind you, if global warming continues at the present rate, we will have the melting of the tundra permafrost to worry about--once it starts to go, the methane released will snowball (ironic word), because methane is a powerful greenhouse gas.
There have been something like 400 meteorite strikes over the last few decades large enough to be mistaken for an atomic bomb. Fortunately, the nuclear powers don't startle every time there is an explosion in the upper atmosphere and have kept mum on most of them so as to not disturb the populace.
There is some concern over the newer nuclear powers, who lack the money and technology of the Great Powers. An explosion last year over the Mediterranean was in the same neighbourhood as the bombs dropped at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A few hours later and it could have happened over Pakistan or India.
As Homer Simpson says, "Me work at a nuclear power plant? Ka-boom!"
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2002
- Messages
- 429
But isn't it true that the area in question in Tunguska shows more radiation than it should? Isn't this why the meteorite theory took hold in the first place?
EDIT - sorry, I've just read the whole thread and see that Rynner has already mentioned this. Silly me. - EDIT
EDIT - sorry, I've just read the whole thread and see that Rynner has already mentioned this. Silly me. - EDIT
A
Anonymous
Guest
Fortis said:Noticed the helium thing myself when I looked at the website this morning. (All part of my daily ritual
That caught my eye too. I wonder if he meant that helium in the gas stream would account for unusual quantities of helium found after the explosion, as would happen with a fusion blast? I don't think the person who wrote that story had English as his first language. He used 'carbohydrates' when he plainly meant 'hydrocarbons' as well.
A
Anonymous
Guest
To Little Black Duck
Hi. About your side of the volcano which could come down, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's in Gran Canaria actually. The chunk which could slide into the briney weighs 500 billion tons! If you look on the sea floor around that area, there is evidence that similar things have happened before. It would create a decent surfing wave though.
Bill Robinson
Hi. About your side of the volcano which could come down, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's in Gran Canaria actually. The chunk which could slide into the briney weighs 500 billion tons! If you look on the sea floor around that area, there is evidence that similar things have happened before. It would create a decent surfing wave though.
Bill Robinson
A
Anonymous
Guest
I saw a docu some time ago that covered this and showed the work that was done by the Soviets investigating this. THey theorised that the explosion was an airbust of a small dense object. The airbust was inferred from the butterfly pattern of the main devastation. This pattern was consistant with the explosion being at some 2000 feet or more of an object travelling at an oblique angle.
The trajectory, blast pattern and explsoive effects were finally theorised to be a small asteroid compsoed of iron and nickel approximately the size of a small car. The density, speed and friction caused it to super heat and detontate giving the reulst seen.
Anyone else see this?
Been a pet one of mine since reading about it in Arthur C Clarke's Mysterious World when I was a kid.
LD
The trajectory, blast pattern and explsoive effects were finally theorised to be a small asteroid compsoed of iron and nickel approximately the size of a small car. The density, speed and friction caused it to super heat and detontate giving the reulst seen.
Anyone else see this?
Been a pet one of mine since reading about it in Arthur C Clarke's Mysterious World when I was a kid.
LD
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2001
- Messages
- 2,011
Interesting, as this sort of sounds like the opposite (in the sense of the object responsible for the Tunguska blast being comparatively low density, perhaps that of water) of the theory given here:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4522
This is also one of my fave unsolved mystery type things. Though, TBH, I also wanted to add the word "Tunguska" to this thread, otherwise anyone doing a search for mentions on the topic on the MB might never see it.
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4522
This is also one of my fave unsolved mystery type things.
Though, TBH, I also wanted to add the word "Tunguska" to this thread, otherwise anyone doing a search for mentions on the topic on the MB might never see it.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I do recall a documentary some years ago about this. This news story contains more details of the theory:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1628806.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1628806.stm
A
Anonymous
Guest
Yeah the big thing with the docu I saw, which was news to me, was that the force of the blast was not consistant with the density of a "dirty snowball" type object. Also, a dirty snowball would have to have been travelling at lot faster than the extrapolated speed to detonate in the same way.
I am open to suggestion really, but the fact that there was no impact crater, no uridium deposits and lots of heat type damage up to 20 miles away, does seem to suggest a compact, dense object that was not very big.
LD
I am open to suggestion really, but the fact that there was no impact crater, no uridium deposits and lots of heat type damage up to 20 miles away, does seem to suggest a compact, dense object that was not very big.
LD
Expedition Seeks Alien Connection To Tungus Meteorite
Expedition Seeks Alien
Connection To Tungus Meteorite
Pravda.ru
7-31-4
New expedition has already set off for Evenkia last Friday in order to solve the mystery behind the popular phenomenon known as Tungus meteorite.
Scientists are hoping to find material evidences disproving the main version of the events which took place almost a hundred years ago. Officially, on June 30th 1908 a huge meteorite descended from the sky and shook taiga, reports RIA "Novosti".
"We intend to uncover evidences that will prove the fact that it was not a meteorite that rammed the Earth, but a UFO," stated the team"s supervisor Yuri Labvin to journalists. Yuri Labvin has been heading the public fund dedicated to studying the Tungus cosmic phenomenon.
Armed with metal detectors and other innovative gadgets, members of the expedition (14) plan to inspect taiga near the Poligus village as well as surrounding area by the river Podkamennaya Tunguska.
The scouting area is situated in approximately 500 kilometers to the West from the place where previous scientific expeditions used to search for the traces of the fallen meteorite.
Labvin also stated that according to space photography of this region of Evenkia, the area is full of "metal traces" which could in fact have something to do with the "man-caused catastrophe which took place 100 years ago." The expedition is scheduled to return back to Krasnoyarsk on August 5th.
- Translated by: Anna Ossipova
L1999-2002 "PRAVDA.Ru".
http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/13587_Tungus.html
Ruff note : there's a Marvel comic ccoming out next week called ULTIMATE NIGHTMARE #1 thats about the Tungus Meteorite with the "something is under the ground" alien connection.
Expedition Seeks Alien
Connection To Tungus Meteorite
Pravda.ru
7-31-4
New expedition has already set off for Evenkia last Friday in order to solve the mystery behind the popular phenomenon known as Tungus meteorite.
Scientists are hoping to find material evidences disproving the main version of the events which took place almost a hundred years ago. Officially, on June 30th 1908 a huge meteorite descended from the sky and shook taiga, reports RIA "Novosti".
"We intend to uncover evidences that will prove the fact that it was not a meteorite that rammed the Earth, but a UFO," stated the team"s supervisor Yuri Labvin to journalists. Yuri Labvin has been heading the public fund dedicated to studying the Tungus cosmic phenomenon.
Armed with metal detectors and other innovative gadgets, members of the expedition (14) plan to inspect taiga near the Poligus village as well as surrounding area by the river Podkamennaya Tunguska.
The scouting area is situated in approximately 500 kilometers to the West from the place where previous scientific expeditions used to search for the traces of the fallen meteorite.
Labvin also stated that according to space photography of this region of Evenkia, the area is full of "metal traces" which could in fact have something to do with the "man-caused catastrophe which took place 100 years ago." The expedition is scheduled to return back to Krasnoyarsk on August 5th.
- Translated by: Anna Ossipova
L1999-2002 "PRAVDA.Ru".
http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/13587_Tungus.html
Ruff note : there's a Marvel comic ccoming out next week called ULTIMATE NIGHTMARE #1 thats about the Tungus Meteorite with the "something is under the ground" alien connection.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2004
- Messages
- 1,303
I wonder what they'll find?
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2001
- Messages
- 5,823
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: Expedition Seeks Alien Connection To Tungus Meteorite
I think Emperor has already posted some of this story on the 'Stories from Pravda' Thread:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=420399&highlight=stories
It's all so very late series, 'X-Files'. Isn't that where the alien oil-in-the-eyes horror comes from?
You'll be posting stories from the 'Weekly World News' next, Ruff.ruffready said:
I think Emperor has already posted some of this story on the 'Stories from Pravda' Thread:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=420399&highlight=stories
It's all so very late series, 'X-Files'. Isn't that where the alien oil-in-the-eyes horror comes from?
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2002
- Messages
- 19,406
Re: Re: Expedition Seeks Alien Connection To Tungus Meteorit
Yep. While some Pravda stories have turned out to be true (e.g. the Girl with X-Ray Eyes) it reall does need to be confirmed by a secondary source and a quick Google revealed nothing. If nothing shows up I'll merge this with the Pravda thread (I can split it all out later if it proves true).
Information on the technogenetic hypothesis:
http://omzg.sscc.ru/TUNGUSKA/en/newse/abstracts/zhurav.htm
The top page there has other info:
http://omzg.sscc.ru/TUNGUSKA/
AndroMan said:You'll be posting stories from the 'Weekly World News' next, Ruff.
I think Emperor has already posted some of this story on the 'Stories from Pravda' Thread:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=418407#post418407
It's all so very late series, 'X-Files'. Isn't that where the alien oil-in-the-eyes horror comes from?
Yep. While some Pravda stories have turned out to be true (e.g. the Girl with X-Ray Eyes) it reall does need to be confirmed by a secondary source and a quick Google revealed nothing. If nothing shows up I'll merge this with the Pravda thread (I can split it all out later if it proves true).
Information on the technogenetic hypothesis:
http://omzg.sscc.ru/TUNGUSKA/en/newse/abstracts/zhurav.htm
The top page there has other info:
http://omzg.sscc.ru/TUNGUSKA/
your all right!!
I just saw that story b4 I went to bed and had just finished listing comics on e-bay..one title which is the one mentioned above about that 1908 BOOM! CRASH! whatever it was coming back in a Marvel comic story with the Ultimates "AVENGERS SUPER HEREO TEAM" investigating I believe. Its one past event that has always caught my intrest ..thinging about a alien ship eons ago , after traveling decades or longer to reach "somewhere" and ends in a crash here on earth..:cross eye
I just saw that story b4 I went to bed and had just finished listing comics on e-bay..one title which is the one mentioned above about that 1908 BOOM! CRASH! whatever it was coming back in a Marvel comic story with the Ultimates "AVENGERS SUPER HEREO TEAM" investigating I believe. Its one past event that has always caught my intrest ..thinging about a alien ship eons ago , after traveling decades or longer to reach "somewhere" and ends in a crash here on earth..:cross eye
Ultimate nightmare
ULTIMATE NIGHTMARE #1
The Story:
PART 1 (OF 5) Superstar Warren Ellis teams with hot newcomer Trevor Hairsine (Ultimate Six) to tell a story of international intrigue that shakes every Ultimate book to its core! As world communications systems break down, the source of the anomaly is revealed as Tanguska, Russia. Nick Fury of S.H.I.E.L.D. leads a force comprised of Captain America, Black Widow and Sam Wilson to investigate, while, simultaneously, Charles Xavier of the X-Men dispatches his own team consisting of Jean Grey, Wolverine & Colossus. And what they discover there – and what happens next – defies belief!
In Stores: 08-04-2004
ULTIMATE NIGHTMARE #1
The Story:
PART 1 (OF 5) Superstar Warren Ellis teams with hot newcomer Trevor Hairsine (Ultimate Six) to tell a story of international intrigue that shakes every Ultimate book to its core! As world communications systems break down, the source of the anomaly is revealed as Tanguska, Russia. Nick Fury of S.H.I.E.L.D. leads a force comprised of Captain America, Black Widow and Sam Wilson to investigate, while, simultaneously, Charles Xavier of the X-Men dispatches his own team consisting of Jean Grey, Wolverine & Colossus. And what they discover there – and what happens next – defies belief!
In Stores: 08-04-2004
A
Anonymous
Guest
In addition to all the meteor/comet/asteroid/bolide-type theories, a good idea which I heard recently is that the Tungus Event was, sorry to be a bit blunt, but a giant "earth fart" in which ten billion tons of highly-flammable natural gas vented and spontaneously ignited. The theory fits, but of course it doesn't explain the UFO supposedly seen beforehand.
There is a good book called The Fire Came By which advances the idea that it was an alien spaceship which exploded. But think! Would a nuclear-powered ship have sufficient fissile material to detonate in such a cataclysmic manner? Or if there was a danger that the main propulsion unit would detonate like that, would it not be detachable from the rest of the ship, so that you could just drop it in deep space and get safely away?
Personally my money's on a chunk of cometary nucleus which exploded well before hitting the ground. Wonderfully Fortean event though. I wonder if we'll ever know for sure...
Bill.
There is a good book called The Fire Came By which advances the idea that it was an alien spaceship which exploded. But think! Would a nuclear-powered ship have sufficient fissile material to detonate in such a cataclysmic manner? Or if there was a danger that the main propulsion unit would detonate like that, would it not be detachable from the rest of the ship, so that you could just drop it in deep space and get safely away?
Personally my money's on a chunk of cometary nucleus which exploded well before hitting the ground. Wonderfully Fortean event though. I wonder if we'll ever know for sure...
Bill.
http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/
http://www.galisteo.com/tunguska/docs/splitsky.html
The explosions were heard in the early morning hours of June 30, 1908. It was a drama that has occurred countless times in Earth's history, and that is sure to play again.
Those Tungus tribesmen and Russian fur traders who happened to glance into the southeastern Siberian sky that fateful morning must have been startled to see a fireball streaking through the atmosphere toward their trading post of Vanavara and leaving a trail of light some 800 kilometers long. The object, whatever its nature, was approaching from an azimuth of 115 degrees and descending at an entry angle of 30 to 35 degrees above the horizon. Their gaze followed the bright fireball as it continued along a northwestward trajectory until it seemed about to disappear over the horizon. Then it shattered in a rapid series of cataclysmic explosions lasting about half a second over a distance of 15 to 20 kilometers.
http://www.galisteo.com/tunguska/docs/splitsky.html
The explosions were heard in the early morning hours of June 30, 1908. It was a drama that has occurred countless times in Earth's history, and that is sure to play again.
Those Tungus tribesmen and Russian fur traders who happened to glance into the southeastern Siberian sky that fateful morning must have been startled to see a fireball streaking through the atmosphere toward their trading post of Vanavara and leaving a trail of light some 800 kilometers long. The object, whatever its nature, was approaching from an azimuth of 115 degrees and descending at an entry angle of 30 to 35 degrees above the horizon. Their gaze followed the bright fireball as it continued along a northwestward trajectory until it seemed about to disappear over the horizon. Then it shattered in a rapid series of cataclysmic explosions lasting about half a second over a distance of 15 to 20 kilometers.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2002
- Messages
- 19,406
LOL - thats the last straw!!
I've merged the two threads.
I've merged the two threads.