TV Licensing: The Stated Facts, In Black-And-White

[escargot]

HELP!!!

So a while ago my other half left and took the TV with her. I didn't care because I don't watch TV much. So I looked into it extremely carefully, and I only need a licence for watching live TV or BBC iplayer. I was fine with that. So I cancelled my licence.

So then, near the end of last month, I decided to catch up on the marvel movies I've missed. I went on to Amazon and bought Endgame, Captain Marvel, and rented Spider-man Far From Home. Today, I've got home from work, and they've put a slightly threatening thing through my door saying the property has no licence attached to it, and they're investigating. Waste your time all you like, I thought. But there was a website address for people like me who don't need a licence. So I went on it.

And... suddenly you need a licence for streaming 'live TV' on Amazon prime video. What the hell is does that mean? I'm trying to find a website that clearly states whether I've broken the law. To me, ordering a movies to watch or rent on a streaming service is entirely not the same as live tv. But I can't get clear answers. Does anyone understand this?

Having a letter about the TV licence after buying/renting/streaming might be a coincidence. As most homes do have a licence, not having one is unusual so you may have been caught up in a 'sweep'. They're trying it on, with the assumption that you'll hold your hands up to not getting it sooner. I've seen this happen.

 

[escargot]

More about TV licences -

- The TV licensing authority does 'sweeps' of areas and issues blocks of summonses to residents without one. When I worked at the Magistrates' Courts I saw 100 or more people at a time turn up to be fined for it.

- If you buy a TV you have to give your address to the shop and then are hounded to buy a licence even if you already have one.
We've had that, when Techy collected a TV for his mother. He gave our address so we had nasty letters for months. I'm sure a less robust individual would have caved in bought a second licence.

- Many years ago before my divorce I was legally separated from the ex, even though we were still living together. On my solicitor's advice I had set up a separate household under the same roof.
The TV licence was in my name so he should have bought one for himself to watch TV with our children! I did consider dobbing him in, heh.

- In my time at the Magistrates' courts I saw people prosecuted for watching TV without a licence at other people's houses. They didn't know there was no licence and were not responsible for it but could be fined anyway.
So you could be dogsitting or doing a spot of plumbing for a customer when they're out, with the telly on, and next thing you're up before the Beak for a grand.

This did happen, notably to a girl of 16 who was babysitting. She had opened the door to the inspectors who knew there was no licence and saw the TV on, and taken her details and issued the summons. She was distraught.

The householder wasn't coughing up - legally they didn't have to, morally they should - and I fetched the Youth Offending Team bods over to support her. As far as I know she was found liable.
So if you are likely to be watching TV at someone else's house, ask if they have a licence and if not, don't answer the door to anyone!

 

[Mythopoeika]

More about TV licences -

- The TV licensing authority does 'sweeps' of areas and issues blocks of summonses to residents without one. When I worked at the Magistrates' Courts I saw 100 or more people at a time turn up to be fined for it.

- If you buy a TV you have to give your address to the shop and then are hounded to buy a licence even if you already have one.
We've had that, when Techy collected a TV for his mother. He gave our address so we had nasty letters for months. I'm sure a less robust individual would have caved in bought a second licence.

- Many years ago before my divorce I was legally separated from the ex, even though we were still living together. On my solicitor's advice I had set up a separate household under the same roof.
The TV licence was in my name so he should have bought one for himself to watch TV with our children! I did consider dobbing him in, heh.

- In my time at the Magistrates' courts I saw people prosecuted for watching TV without a licence at other people's houses. They didn't know there was no licence and were not responsible for it but could be fined anyway.
So you could be dogsitting or doing a spot of plumbing for a customer when they're out, with the telly on, and next thing you're up before the Beak for a grand.

This did happen, notably to a girl of 16 who was babysitting. She had opened the door to the inspectors who knew there was no licence and saw the TV on, and taken her details and issued the summons. She was distraught.

The householder wasn't coughing up - legally they didn't have to, morally they should - and I fetched the Youth Offending Team bods over to support her. As far as I know she was found liable.
So if you are likely to be watching TV at someone else's house, ask if they have a licence and if not, don't answer the door to anyone!

To me, this is completely bonkers.

 

[Swifty]

More about TV licences -

- The TV licensing authority does 'sweeps' of areas and issues blocks of summonses to residents without one. When I worked at the Magistrates' Courts I saw 100 or more people at a time turn up to be fined for it.

- If you buy a TV you have to give your address to the shop and then are hounded to buy a licence even if you already have one.
We've had that, when Techy collected a TV for his mother. He gave our address so we had nasty letters for months. I'm sure a less robust individual would have caved in bought a second licence.

- Many years ago before my divorce I was legally separated from the ex, even though we were still living together. On my solicitor's advice I had set up a separate household under the same roof.
The TV licence was in my name so he should have bought one for himself to watch TV with our children! I did consider dobbing him in, heh.

- In my time at the Magistrates' courts I saw people prosecuted for watching TV without a licence at other people's houses. They didn't know there was no licence and were not responsible for it but could be fined anyway.
So you could be dogsitting or doing a spot of plumbing for a customer when they're out, with the telly on, and next thing you're up before the Beak for a grand.

This did happen, notably to a girl of 16 who was babysitting. She had opened the door to the inspectors who knew there was no licence and saw the TV on, and taken her details and issued the summons. She was distraught.

The householder wasn't coughing up - legally they didn't have to, morally they should - and I fetched the Youth Offending Team bods over to support her. As far as I know she was found liable.
So if you are likely to be watching TV at someone else's house, ask if they have a licence and if not, don't answer the door to anyone!

WTF!? .. so I can be prosecuted just for visiting a mate who's watching telly, he nips to the shops, the heavy mob turn up etc etc ... even if I can 100% PROVE I don't live there? .. that's outrageous .. who passed that ruling?

 

[escargot]

WTF!? .. so I can be prosecuted just for visiting a mate who's watching telly, he nips to the shops, the heavy mob turn up etc etc ... even if I can 100% PROVE I don't live there? .. that's outrageous .. who passed that ruling?

Yes, exactly. The law is about WATCHING the TV without a licence. Doesn't matter whose TV or house it is. I've seen it done!

 

[tuco]

WTF!? .. so I can be prosecuted just for visiting a mate who's watching telly, he nips to the shops, the heavy mob turn up etc etc ... even if I can 100% PROVE I don't live there? .. that's outrageous .. who passed that ruling?

"Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law" as I was told by a policeman just before he nicked me, along time ago. You can't plead innocent just because you don't know it's against the law.

 

[maximus otter]

"Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law" as I was told by a policeman just before him nicked me, along time ago. You can't plead innocents just because you don't know it's against the law.

“Ignorance of the law excuses no man: Not that all men know the law, but because 'tis an excuse every man will plead, and no man can tell how to refute him.”

John Selden
English antiquarian & jurist (1584 - 1654)

maximus otter

 

[Swifty]

“Ignorance of the law excuses no man: Not that all men know the law, but because 'tis an excuse every man will plead, and no man can tell how to refute him.”

John Selden
English antiquarian & jurist (1584 - 1654)

maximus otter

So if I'm ever caught up in someone else's house in the above scenario, I'm going to say "I'm not the owner, I'm just robbing the place." (unless there's a copper with them).

 

[maximus otter]

So if I'm ever caught up in someone else's house in the above scenario, I'm going to say "I'm not the owner, I'm just robbing the place." (unless there's a copper with them).

maximus otter

 

[Swifty]

maximus otter

Exactly! .. and in the confusion, you can walk out. Fool proof.

 

[tuco]

So if I'm ever caught up in someone else's house in the above scenario, I'm going to say "I'm not the owner, I'm just robbing the place." (unless there's a copper with them).

If there is a copper, tell him you broke in to check if there was a TV as you know the owner doesn't have a licence. That should be ok.

 

[Swifty]

If there is a copper, tell him you broke in to check if there was a TV as you know the owner doesn't have a licence. That should be ok.

I like the way you think lol .. sometimes the maddest solutions confuse coppers just long enough .. (sorry Max)

 

[tuco]

I like the way you think lol .. sometimes the maddest solutions confuse coppers just long enough .. (sorry Max)

I've heard the police don't bother about break ins any more ( sorry Max ), but as we all know not paying your TV licence is very serious, just look at how many people are prosecuted each year. ( max I am joking ).

 

[maximus otter]

I've heard the police don't bother about break ins any more ( sorry Max ), but as we all know not paying your TV licence is very serious, just look at how many people are prosecuted each year. ( max I am joking ).

lf only it were a joke.

ln my day, in my Force, a dwelling burglary was automatically attended by a uniformed officer. lf that officer’s opinion was that there might be viable forensic evidence, then a SOCO attended also. Not so much any more.

Still, say something perceived as offensive about someone on Twitfacegram, and a special squad of intrepid officers will clap the Darbies on you before the words “I’m offended!” have finished echoing. The Met, for example, has 900 highly-trained officers dedicated solely to policing “hate crime”.

Not long after l retired, the county town of my old Force instituted what became known as the “Facebook Car”. This meant that two officers (out of a total on duty so low that you’d think l was joking if l gave it out, which l won’t) spent their entire shift shuttling between the addresses of people who’d apparently forgotten the old expression about “sticks and stones”.

maximus otter

 

[tuco]

“Ignorance of the law excuses no man: Not that all men know the law, but because 'tis an excuse every man will plead, and no man can tell how to refute him.”

John Selden
English antiquarian & jurist (1584 - 1654)

maximus otter

I totally agree with this, as there would be no point having any laws, if you could say "but I didn't know it was wrong" and walk away. A good example that catches out a lot of people, is buying a second hand car privetly . Your car insurance states you can drive any other car as long as the car doesn't belong to you, so you test drive it ( legal ), buy it and drive it home. You now own the car so you actually drove it home uninsured, and the chap who sold it to you and allowed you to drive away aided and abetted no insurance. Both very serious. So next time you visit a friend and the TV is on demand to see his TV licence before sitting down !

 

[tuco]

lf only it were a joke.

ln my day, in my Force, a dwelling burglary was automatically attended by a uniformed officer. lf that officer’s opinion was that there might be viable forensic evidence, then a SOCO attended also. Not so much any more.

Still, say something perceived as offensive about someone on Twitfacegram, and a special squad of intrepid officers will clap the Darbies on you before the words “I’m offended!” have finished echoing. The Met, for example, has 900 highly-trained officers dedicated solely to policing “hate crime”.

Not long after l retired, the county town of my old Force instituted what became known as the “Facebook Car”. This meant that two officers (out of a total on duty so low that you’d think l was joking if l gave it out, which l won’t) spent their entire shift shuttling between the addresses of people who’d apparently forgotten the old expression about “sticks and stones”.

maximus otter

I'm very sorry to hear that, the world has gone mad !

 

[Mythopoeika]

This is an example of a law that has been passed without much thought (it was probably drawn up by an overzealous civil servant and then rubber-stamped in Parliament).

 

[Swifty]

I totally agree with this, as there would be no point having any laws, if you could say "but I didn't know it was wrong" and walk away. A good example that catches out a lot of people, is buying a second hand car privetly . Your car insurance states you can drive any other car as long as the car doesn't belong to you, so you test drive it ( legal ), buy it and drive it home. You now own the car so you actually drove it home uninsured, and the chap who sold it to you and allowed you to drive away aided and abetted no insurance. Both very serious. So next time you visit a friend and the TV is on demand to see his TV licence before sitting down !

So by that logic, visiting someone I know for the first time and meeting their kids, I really should ask to view their kids birth certificates so they can prove they are their kids in case social services knock on the door and discover me there with abducted kids and I then get an automatic prosecution for abduction even though I could prove later in an interview room that I was telling the truth? after all ignorance is no excuse?

 

[Mythopoeika]

So by that logic, visiting someone I know for the first time and meeting their kids, I really should ask to view their kids birth certificates so they can prove they are their kids in case social services knock on the door and discover me there with abducted kids and I then get an automatic prosecution for abduction even though I could prove later in an interview room that I was telling the truth? after all ignorance is no excuse?

Yes - we should also demand to see all of the qualifications, papers and licences of everybody we know. Citizen policing at its finest. The Stazi would be proud.

 

[escargot]

So if I'm ever caught up in someone else's house in the above scenario, I'm going to say "I'm not the owner, I'm just robbing the place." (unless there's a copper with them).

It doesn't matter who the owner is, it's who is caught watching a TV without a licence. So if the telly is on while you're pretending to burgle the place you'll still get done.

 

[Spookdaddy]

I'm very sorry to hear that, the world has gone mad !

Well...yes. But the 900 dedicated hate crime peelers thing isn't a great example - because it's not actually true.

The 900 officers mentioned form the Community Safety and Safeguarding units, part of whose remit is hate crime - it is also responsible for covering other things, like domestic abuse and 'honour' based violence - both of which I'd hope even the most jaded of souls believe deserve some sort of dedicated asset.

To be fair the Met's very badly worded website entry created the confusion in the first place; but the second paragraph makes it more or less obvious that the first is misleading. There have been various freedom of information requests since the furore which greeted publication on the Met's site a couple or so years ago - available as pdfs online (LINK to one such here) - which clarify the issue. However, the promised revision of the original does not appear to have materialised, which is bizarre - given the amount of burst blood vessels it caused when published. Effectively, it seems that, although the investigation of a so-called hate crime may be part of a unit officer's workload, it is only one potential facet of a much wider spectrum of responsibilities. In fact the particular FOI response linked to suggests that there are in fact no investigators solely dedicated to hate crimes at all.

Sorry - that's off at a total tangent.

 

[escargot]

Also, the police aren't involved in TV licence enforcement. You get a knock at the door, a brief conversation about whether you have a licence (tip: they already know) and the summons arrives in the post.

Dunno how you go on about refusing to give your name - they have the address! - but I expect if you do that there's a procedure.

A lot of people just agree to pay up for a licence from the time they're caught rather than hold our and be fined. I dunno why anyone would do this.

 

[Swifty]

Yes - we should also demand to see all of the qualifications, papers and licences of everybody we know. Citizen policing at its finest. The Stazi would be proud.

It doesn't matter who the owner is, it's who is caught watching a TV without a licence. So if the telly is on while you're pretending to burgle the place you'll still get done.

The Mrs has come up with something devilishly ingenious:

Invite someone who's screwed you over in the past to watch TV and drink wine, snacks etc to make the peace .. except don't tell them you haven't got a TV licence .. tip off the TV licensing people anonymously that your address hasn't got a licence then ask your victim to watch your place because you have to go out but you're expecting a delivery from Amazon.

I admit this plan needs finessing ..

 

[Mythopoeika]

The Mrs has come up with something devilishly ingenious:

Invite someone who's screwed you over in the past to watch TV and drink wine, snacks etc to make the peace .. except don't tell them you haven't got a TV licence .. tip off the TV licensing people anonymously that your address hasn't got a licence then ask your victim to watch your place because you have to go out but you're expecting a delivery from Amazon.

I admit this plan needs finessing ..

While you're out, they may try to screw you over again.

 

[Swifty]

While you're out, they may try to screw you over again.

That did cross my mind .. depends how they screwed you over the first time .. obviously no thieves in your house. Or knicker sniffers.

 

[tuco]

So by that logic, visiting someone I know for the first time and meeting their kids, I really should ask to view their kids birth certificates so they can prove they are their kids in case social services knock on the door and discover me there with abducted kids and I then get an automatic prosecution for abduction even though I could prove later in an interview room that I was telling the truth? after all ignorance is no excuse?

I don,t make the laws, I don't even abide by some but use them as guides and decide what I can get away with ( I think most people do this ) ,the law is there to protect but is also used to control us all, that's life, what can you do ?

 

[Swifty]

I don,t make the laws, I don't even abide by some but use them as guides and decide what I can get away with ( I think most people do this ) ,the law is there to protect but is also used to control us all, that's life, what can you do ?

I'm the same as you until a loophole presents itself .. as the oldies taught us, if you can't be good, be careful .. I haven't got a criminal record but if my back's to the wall I'll fight.

 

[escargot]

The Mrs has come up with something devilishly ingenious:

Invite someone who's screwed you over in the past to watch TV and drink wine, snacks etc to make the peace .. except don't tell them you haven't got a TV licence .. tip off the TV licensing people anonymously that your address hasn't got a licence then ask your victim to watch your place because you have to go out but you're expecting a delivery from Amazon.

The licencing lot don't work like that. They don't need tipoffs, they have lists of which households do or do not have licences.

 

[tuco]

I'm the same as you until a loophole presents itself .. as the oldies taught us, if you can't be good, be careful .. I haven't got a criminal record but if my back's to the wall I'll fight.

I'm the same Swifty, apart from the fact I do have a criminal record, wasn't careful enough ! don't want to go into it here, but the detective sargeant who delt with the case told me he had done the same thing once but had got away with it, "you didn't" he said, shook his hand when it was over with- he was a nice chap.

 

[Swifty]

The licencing lot don't work like that. They don't need tipoffs, they have lists of which households do or do not have licences.

So if you buy a second hand telly off a friend, the licencing lot wouldn't be aware you even had a set then?

.. I remember years ago someone telling me that if you cut the wall plug off your TV set with scissors and they later got into your home, you could legally not get done because clearly it couldn't even be plugged in .. I've no idea if that was true or not or still is.