TWA Flight 800

A

Anonymous

Guest
Yesterday I watched a documentary on the TWA 800 flight on national geographic channel.

Do the conspiracy theories on this still hold any water?

Apologies if there is already a twa800 thread but I couldn't find one.
 

Analis

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
356
Points
99
They still do. Overlooked by the media is that the recent change of regime in Lybia, ironically, may have provided new evidence for another similar case.

http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/06/it ... est-night/

27 JUN 2012
ITALY’S DARKEST NIGHT — PART 1 OF 3
POSTED BY HW ON 27 JUN 2012 / 0 COMMENT


Published June 27, 2012

For years, people have wondered exactly what happened to TWA 800. What is known is that on the night of July 17, 1996, a Boeing 747 was lost off the coast near East Moriches, New York — and all 230 people on board died. An extensive accident investigation followed but was inconclusive as to the cause of the crash. To this day, many maintain that TWA 800 was no accident, claiming that the aircraft may have been accidentally downed by a USAF air-to-air missile. Officials are quick to discount such theories as preposterous. They point out that a cover up on such a scale “could never happen.” Except that it did, just 17 years before, to another civilian airliner in another country.

The Dark Story of Itavia Flight 870


On the night of June 27, 1980, Aerolinee Itavia Flight 870 (a DC-9 registered as I-TIGI) departed Bologna, Italy, en route to Palermo, Sicily. On board were 77 passengers, two pilots and two flight attendants. Of those, 64 were adult passengers, 11 were children aged between two and twelve years old and two were children under the age of 24 months.
As usual, Itavia Flight 870 proceeded uneventfully on its regular route southward off the coast of Italy. Then, at 8:59 pm, the aircraft suddenly disappeared off the radar screens of Italian Air Traffic Control. No report of trouble or declaration of an emergency was received from the pilots — one second the plane was there and the next, it was gone. All 81 souls on board died as pieces of the aircraft fell into the sea.

At first, it seemed that the circumstances of the loss didn’t make sense — the aircraft had been flying along perfectly and then, quite inexplicably, it had exploded in midair with the loss of everyone on board. In response to questions from the media, government officials offered that Flight 870 might have been downed by a terrorist bomb. Initially, that explanation made some sense, but then no terrorist organization stepped forward to make a claim of responsibility.

Unsatisfied, the media returned to ask more questions — and as if by some order from above, officials suddenly went silent. No additional information was forthcoming. This in turn fed media suspicions that the real story was being kept from public view. Sadly, they were right. Everywhere they turned, doors were suddenly closed. It seemed as if nobody was willing to talk about what had happened.

Even more ominously, it was soon discovered that tapes of radar plots had disappeared or had been somehow erased. Other records were also missing or suddenly unavailable. Even more chilling, key witnesses began dying in strange circumstances — car accidents, suicides, and even a heart attack. What followed was the beginning of a decades long cover up, one that would go to the highest levels of no less than three governments. It is a cover up that is still in force even today. The events played out like a bad Hollywood movie, except that it was altogether real.

Out of the Darkness, into the Light

The story of Itavia Flight 870 is a dark tale of missteps, errors, and cover ups that involved no less than three governments on one side and a hostile government on the other — Muammar Qaddafi’s Libyan dictatorship. The details of what happened that night still remain largely a mystery, but key pieces of evidence have recently emerged that shine light onto a long held secret. With the fall of the Qaddafi government in 2011, the archives of Libyan state secrets have been partly opened. There, amidst countless stories of terrorist plans, international ventures and terrible misdeeds are the reports detailing the night of June 27, 1980.
If the Libyan records are to be believed, this is what happened to Itavia Flight 870….
 

Analis

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
356
Points
99
http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/06/it ... rt-2-of-3/

Published on June 28, 2012

Setting the Stage for the Shootdown

In 1980, the international community was arrayed against an increasingly belligerent Libyan government under the leadership of the dictator, Col. Muammar Qaddafi. In the United States, the Jimmy Carter Administration was in its final year and embroiled in an election race against an upstart actor and former governor of California named Ronald Reagan. In Europe, NATO was deeply engaged in the Cold War. The Soviet Union had just invaded Afghanistan — it seemed that the world was on the brink of conflict.

For those nations along the Mediterranean Sea, Libya was a growing problem. Qaddafi’s forces were increasingly involved in attempts to destabilize governments in the region, including many former French colonies in North Africa. From the perspective of the French Government, the time had come to eliminate the problem of Qaddafi.

An Assassination of International Proportions

If new documents uncovered in Libya are to be believed, the opportunity to assassinate Qaddafi presented itself on the night of June 27, 1980, when he was scheduled to fly home from Europe and across the Mediterranean in his personal Tupolev airliner. A pair of French Mirage jet fighters were readied for a very special mission — Qaddafi’s jet would be intercepted and shot down, leaving all parties involved with plausible deniability. If all went well, the wreckage would be lost at sea and the action would resolve the Libyan problem once and for all.

From the start, however, things didn’t quite go as planned. What should have been a simple interception turned into a confusing engagement with jet fighters involved from no less than four nations. The French, the Libyans, the Italians and the Americans would all converge toward a single point over the sea off the coast of Italy — and flying into the melee would come Itavia Flight 870, completely unaware of the unfolding drama ahead.

Unbeknownst to the French, however, their assassination attempt was doomed from the start. According to the newly uncovered Libyan documents, Qaddafi was tipped off at the last moment about the plot by someone from within the SISMI, Italy’s secret service. Thus, Qaddafi made a snap decision and diverted his plane to land on the island of Malta. Notably, the SISMI maintained a degree of influence through high level contacts within Libya. Italy continued its close ties with Qaddafi for years — in 1986, Italian politician Bettino Craxi would phone Qaddafi to warn him of the incoming USAF F-111 raid — once again with the help of the Italians, Qaddafi would survive by fleeing his compound minutes before the bombs hit.

On that night in 1980, a Libyan Air Force MiG-23 fighter jet was already flying north to meet and escort the Qaddafi plane home to Libya, when he diverted to land in Malta. Somehow, in the confusion of developing events, the MiG-23 pilot, Ezedin Koal, was neither notified nor ordered back to base. Instead, he flew north across the Mediterranean Sea, searching for Qaddafi’s Tupolev. On the NATO side of the equation, the Libyan MiG-23 was immediately picked up as “fast mover” on air defense radars. As per standard protocol, the Italian Air Force and US Navy dispatched fighters to intercept the plane as it neared Italian airspace.

A Suddenly Confusing Engagement

Minutes later, the Libyan MiG-23 was already off the coast of Sicily. Concurrently, three Italian Air Force F-104S jet fighters and at least one US Navy A-7 Corsair II (probably this was a flight of two aircraft) closed in separately from the east. The two French Mirage aircraft raced in from the north with the dark intent to perform their deadly assassination mission. Yet now, no fewer than seven and possibly as many as nine NATO fighter planes were converging on a single point on the map in the night skies over the Mediterranean Sea — and, completely unknowing, into the midst of the developing melee flew Itavia Flight 870.

Apparently, the Libyan MiG-23 pilot was first to spot the civilian DC-9 airliner on his radar. The aircraft was heading southward as expected. For the Libyan pilot, it was right where it should have been. He turned his MiG-23 to join into close formation with the airliner, which he apparently mistook for Qaddafi’s Tupolev in the darkness of the night skies. For the French fighter pilots, this newly formed up pair of aircraft exactly matched their mission expectations — there was a large airliner sized target, clearly Qaddafi’s Tupolev, escorted by a single Libyan jet fighter that had joined up from the south. Together, the two targets were flying southward in the direction of Libya.

No warning shots were fired — this was to be an assassination, pure and simple. One of the French pilots launched an air-to-air missile aimed at the larger target. The missile struck home, hitting the forward section of Itavia Flight 870 with a perfect hit. The airliner never stood a chance — it was literally blown out of the sky. As the French Mirage pilots watched the fireball appear and disappear in the distance, their radars showed the Libyan MiG-23 break off and circle out into a counterattack.
There was only one loose end to tie up — they would have to shoot it down as well….

Tying Up Loose Ends — Finishing the MiG-23

Upon seeing the missile impact the airliner nearby, the Libyan MiG-23 pilot, Ezedin Koal, pulled away, searching for nearby enemy aircraft. In every direction his nose would have pointed, the radar would have suddenly shown more enemy fighter jets. A flight of three Italian F-104S Starfighter aircraft closed in from one side while one or two A-7 Corsairs from the US Navy came from another direction. Two French Mirage fighters pressed in from the north, their radars lighting up his early warning radar receiving systems as they tracked him and prepared to fire. From Ezedin Koal’s perspective, he was alone and in deep trouble. With few options, he would have to fight and somehow escape to the south. The odds of survival were clearly slim. There could have been no doubt of the hostile intent of the enemy aircraft — after all, they had just shot down and, in his mind, assassinated Col. Qaddafi himself, the very man he was to escort and protect.

What followed was a confusing series of high speed maneuvers and counter-maneuvers in the dark night skies over Italy. The French and Libyan jets maneuvered over the water in a turning dogfight while US Navy and Italian jets circled. The fight shifted eastward over the Italian mainland before the MiG-23 was finally either shot down or driven into the mountains that were hidden in the shadows of night below. Ultimately, the Libyan MiG-23 would crash into the Sila Mountains in Castelsilano, Calabria, located in the center of the lower boot of southern Italy. In a flash, Ezedin Koal would be killed in the crash.

Their mission accomplished, the French Mirage fighter jets turned to fly northward to France. With the last loose end tied up, it seemed assured that there would be no witnesses to their assassination of Muammar Qaddafi.
 

Analis

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
356
Points
99
http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/06/it ... rt-3-of-3/

Published on June 29, 2012

Aftermath and Cover Up of the Shootdown

Qaddafi had escaped clean and clear from the aerial assassination attempt. He would live on, the penultimate survivor, until Libya’s “Arab Spring” of 2011. France would never speak publicly about the events of that night. Italy too would choose a policy of silence and cover up. The United States would remain silent, being an outside, non-European observer. Amidst the deafening silence from official sources, the media would call the loss of Flight 870 the Ustica Massacre (“Strage di Ustica” — after a nearby island in the Tyrrhenian Sea).

Then, on July 18, 1980, fully 21 days after the shootdown, the wreckage of the Libyan MiG-23 was located in the Sila Mountains. The body of Libyan Pilot Ezedin Koal was still strapped to the ejection seat, his identity revealed by the name imprinted on his helmet. Officials were none too pleased when two news reporters were dispatched to document the crash site. They ordered that both be arrested and held until they agreed to turn over their film.

Despite these further efforts at cover up, the press would later uncover that the Libyan pilot’s body was inexplicably decomposed, as if consistent with the body having died three weeks earlier, at the time of the downing of Flight 870. This linked the two events and added yet more fuel to the fire of press interest. The pilot’s body would be repatriated to Libya after having been buried for a time in Italy.

Strange Coincidences and a Few Unexplained Deaths

The alleged cover up would extend yet further when radar tapes that documented the events of that night were somehow erased or disappeared. This may have been coincidental, but again, it was just another in a long series unlikely coincidences. Likewise, due to the roadblocks and cover up, it took nearly nine years for the recovered pieces of the DC-9 to be examined and written up into a formal accident investigation report — an unfathomably long time in the field of aviation. The report flatly concluded, “All available evidence considered unanimously confirms that the DC-9 incident was caused by a missile that exploded near the nose of the plane. At the present time, the evidence is insufficient to specify the type, origin and identity of the missile.”

Aviation Week and Space Technology bolstered the report by publishing that the damage to the airliner’s fuselage was consistent with that caused by a continuous-rod missile warhead as employed in air-to-air missiles. Any doubts of military involvement in the events were rapidly fading — but whose military? Were the Libyans responsible for an act of air-to-air terrorism? Was it someone else? Soon, the political left took up the banner that the Americans and the US Navy had accidentally shot down the plane.

Unexpected Deaths of Key Witnesses

Even more chilling, though perhaps once again coincidental, a number of those who were working that night and who would have been key witnesses to the events afterwards would die in strange circumstances. The commander of the Italian airbase from which the intercepting Italian F-104S fighter jets had launched would die suddenly in a car accident. Two of the radar controllers who witnessed the full picture of the events of that night on their screens would commit suicide by hanging (an odd personal choice given the pain involved). Another radar controller also died, but this time of an unexpected heart attack — he was just 37 years old. A fourth air traffic controller who had direct knowledge of the events of that night was later found murdered. Finally, two of the three Italian Air Force pilots who had intercepted the Libyan MiG-23 died in a midair collision during an air show at Ramstein AB in Germany. For many conspiracy theorists, these deaths were all too coincidental.

The Final Word on Flight 870?

Finally, a formal inquiry was launched by an Italian judge named Rosario Priore, but even then, his efforts were stymied by roadblocks put up by NATO and Italian political and military figures. He would make note of the apparent cover up in his report and subsequently, four Italian generals would be charged with the crime of High Treason for obstructing the investigations. With the expiration of the statute of limitations, the cases would be dropped.

In July 2006, the recovered fragments of Flight 870 were re-assembled and brought to Bologna from Pratica di Mare Air Force Base near Rome. A year later in June 2007, the reassembled fuselage was placed on public display at the newly opened Museum for the Memory of Ustica in Bologna. It stands as mute testimony to what was probably an attempted assassination that went wrong — terribly wrong — and the deaths of 81 innocent civilians and one Libyan MiG pilot.

Then in 2008, the former President of Italy, Francesco Cossiga, stepped forward to confirm that Itavia Flight 870 was downed by French fighter jets. His admission was a bombshell, yet still, the fine details of the events of that night were not released. Shortly afterward, France was served with a claim for damages. Less than two years later, Cossiga would die of respiratory problems.

Finally in 2011, the Italian courts would order $127 million in reparations be paid by the Italian government to the families of those who perished. The true story of what happened in the night skies over the Tyrrhenian Sea, is finally coming to light. With the release of the latest records from the Libyan government archives, the only question remaining is when public officials will finally accept responsibility for what happened — to confirm or deny the sequence of events claimed in the Libyan documents.

After 32 years, it seems that enough time has passed for the truth to be revealed.
 

CarlosTheDJ

Antediluvian
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
6,690
Reaction score
8,094
Points
294
Location
Pebble Mill
Now that's a good story!

Nice find.
 

JamesWhitehead

Piffle Prospector
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
13,579
Reaction score
12,844
Points
309
It is a good story.

According to This page the dog-fight story emerged in 1997.

Was there no earlier report of what sounds to have been quite a spectacular set-to? :?:
 

sherbetbizarre

Special Branch
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
4,384
Reaction score
4,284
Points
184
Going back to TWA 800, here's an online conspiracy documentary--

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5091502192

This documentary proves that the U.S. government-including the FBI and DOJ-are totally corrupt and involved in serious felony crime and the outrageous cover-up of truth concerning the mysterious crash of TWA Flight 800 on July 17, 1996. As you will see, Flight 800 was actually destroyed by a surface-to-air missile. Every allegation made in this film is backed up with facts-none more dramatic than those that come from the Federal government itself. You'll learn what the 736 official eyewitnesses actually saw; why aviators reject the CIA "cartoon" explanation; how the Feds criminally suppressed reporting; the critical witness drawings; the rigged NTSB hearings; the damning radar data and documentation; the altered physical evidence; undeniable proof of explosive residue proving a missile strike; the stinging report from the machinist union; and much more!
 

markrkingston1

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
413
Reaction score
295
Points
79
Location
London, England
Zilch5 said:
sherbetbizarre said:
Going back to TWA 800, here's an online conspiracy documentary--
Given the amount of eyewitness accounts to that fact, it is surprising there isn't more talk about it still!

http://flight800.org/eye2.html
I think the witness statements (albeit selected and cropped) page neatly illustrates two things:

1) The massive variability and unreliability (on specifics) of witnesses. It is intriguing how so many people people seeing the same set of events describe them in surprisingly different ways. And yet...

2) Despite the variability in witness statements, it is nevertheless crystal clear that they have an overall, consistent, theme: That the aicraft was hit and destroyed by an object approaching it from below, and that the only part of the aicraft that might have climbed briefly after the initial impact was the front part of the fuselage (i.e. it could have flipped upwards in the airstream).

To conclude that it was anything other than a missile seems to me to be irrational.

I wonder how long this cover up will last. It has been seen recently that post facto coverups/conspiracies are sustainable for surprisingly long periods of time.
 

markrkingston1

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
413
Reaction score
295
Points
79
Location
London, England
rev_dino said:
Interesting, it dismisses the missile theory by ignoring the actual evidence, from what I understand. Specifically, it was theorised that the missile that hit the aircraft might not have had a warhead (i.e. it had an instrumentation and telemetry package installed for the purposes of exercises). A direct hit with a large (Standard-size) missile with no warhead would certainly cause the aircraft to disintegrate but would not cause conventional patterns of explosive damage. It would likely however cause propellant deposits to be left behind on the aircraft, and this was found.

The author of the above article also refers to eyewitness accounts and then proceeds to redefine what people saw and the order they saw it to suit his own ends. His position is less skeptical and more pre-decided, it seems. Whilst I agree that witnesses do get the order of closely-spaced events mixed up, it is a) unreasonable to think that such consistent in overall thrust accounts could possibly result from such confusion, and b) an incorrect description of the order of events in some cases does not necessarily alter the nature of the events.

Looking at it from a genuinely skeptical (i.e open minded) point of view, based upon the preponderence of testimony and evidence available, the very eyewitnesses he referred to seem to consistently describe a projectile of some sort hitting the aicraft and causing it to disintegrate (in the process of which it explodes; not necessary an explosion of a missile warhead). Angular differences, illuminated contrails, and a few misplaced sequences don't address what people consistently actually say they saw.

Furthermore, the author seems to take the CIA's (revised) reconstruction as gospel when there are reasons to doubt its veracity. (Who in their right mind would believe anything the CIA says without truly independent corroboration!?). He also ignores the testimony (disputed but nevertheless in existence and not reasonably easily dismissable) about the nature of ship and submarine movements in the area.

Overall it seems to me that the author is seeking mental closure to something in the face of the obvious evidence which makes such closure less than certain. He seems to want to mentally brush it under the carpet. Whlst he might be right (I can't say for sure that he's not), I think there is more than enough doubt to be nowhere near as certain as he seems to be.

It has the smell of a coverup. That's not scentific; it's a gut feeling. But there is enough doubt in what is known for a genuine skeptic to think that the author's overly clean explanation is a little too easy.


**edit**
Fixed typos.
 

rev_dino

Administrator
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
379
Reaction score
244
Points
74
Location
Denver CO, USA
Good rebuttal.

I saw it more as applying the laws of physics and the unreliable nature of of eyewitness accounts to this case, more than anything else.
 

markrkingston1

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
413
Reaction score
295
Points
79
Location
London, England
rev_dino said:
I saw it more as applying the laws of physics and the unreliable nature of of eyewitness accounts to this case, more than anything else.
Well indeed, but how and which laws of physics apply depends on what actually happened. There are a number of potential explanations, other than the official one, that seem to fit the observations, evidence and laws of physics just as well. Further, it could be argued that some factors that the author of that article dismissed, ignored or seemingly redefined mean that the laws of physics match some non-official explanations better than the official one.

The problem (the same problem with so many issues of Fortean interest) is that not enough is known in public at this time to be sure. It's all open to interpretations. He prefers the clean and simple interpretation (seemingly, reading between the lines, because it's easier to accept that the CIA and powers that be aren't lying or covering anything up, so the evidence and laws of physic have to support that view). My understanding of the testimony, evidence and laws of physics suggests to me that the official explanation cannot be accepted without significant doubts. Other scenarios also fit the facts well.
 

rev_dino

Administrator
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
379
Reaction score
244
Points
74
Location
Denver CO, USA
Thank you for a well reasoned alternative view to my alternative view!
 

JamesWhitehead

Piffle Prospector
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
13,579
Reaction score
12,844
Points
309
If the main event remains dubious, the side-shows become more important. So is there any pre-1997 report of the dog-fights which were supposed to have closely followed the tragic event? Were these all out of sight of witnesses? :?:
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
21,822
Reaction score
31,212
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
TWA Flight 800 Investigators Claim the Official Crash Story Is a Lie

By Dashiell Bennett | The Atlantic Wire

A new film claims the official government report on the crash of TWA Flight 800 in 1996 is an elaborate fabrication, but the most shocking part of the story is that charges are being leveled by some of the very investigators who put the report together. Six experts who appear in the film were members of the National Transportation Safety Board investigation team that concluded the crash was an accident, but they now claim they were silenced by their superiors. The movies, "TWA Flight 800" will debut on EPIX TV next month, on the 17-year anniversary of the crash.

TWA Flight 800 was en route from JFK Airport in New York to Paris, France, when it exploded and crashed off the coast of Long Island, killing all 230 people on board. From the very beginning, there were some who speculated that the plane was the victim of a terrorist attack, leading the FBI to conduct its own criminal investigation. Among the possibilities that were suggested as the cause were a bomb in the cargo hold, or an anti-aircraft missile. Several witnesses even claimed they saw an object or streak of light that looked liked a missile or rocket moving toward the plane before it exploded.

The final NTSB reported said that faulty wiring connected to a central fuel tank caused a blast that destroyed the fuesalage, however, there were still many skeptics and conspiracy theorists who have long doubted that official story. In one particularly famous example, Pierre Salinger, a former Press Secretary for President John Kennedy and reporter for ABC News, claimed he'd seen proof that the U.S. Navy shot down the plane and then covered it up.

Now, those theories are likely to get a new airing, thanks to accident investigators who worked on the TWA 800 case, but say they were not allowed to speak up at the time of the official report. The experts include NTSB and TWA accident investigators, who say they are only able to speak up now that they are retired. According their statements in the film, they believe the official explanation is wrong and the damage was caused by an explosion that came from outside the plane.

The filmmakers won't speculate on what could have caused such an explosion, and haven't yet offered up evidence to support their theory (you'll have to watch on July 17), but they are asking the NTSB to re-open the investigation. Whether or not that happens, or even if a follow-up reaches the same conclusions as the original, this new film will ensure that the alternate theories and claims up a cover will probably never be put to rest.

SOURCE: http://news.yahoo.com/twa-flight-800-in ... 57562.html
 

ChrisBoardman

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
661
Points
119
The problem with this conspiracy theory is that I can't see boeing accepting the official version of events if they can't recreate it.
 

Analis

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
356
Points
99
Personally, I don't see Boeing stating publicly that they don't accept the official version of events. They rely on military contracts, they are themselves an important part of the militaro-industrial complex, and they're 'patriots'.
 

Gwenar

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
88
Reaction score
3
Points
14
I don't know about the "patriots" part, but they are the 'industry' in the military industrial complex. As someone who used to work in contracts at an aerospace firm, I can tell you that the military buys what Boeing wants to sell, not the other way around.

It's a weird relationship, the very definition of corporate welfare. Whenever anyone wants to cut spending on the Boeing airplanes that no one wants, the debate becomes "But... jobs!" And then becomes "But... defense!"

The military industrial complex is the huge white elephant suffocating the federal budget. It might look solid, but it's cheap plaster that attracts rats... Sorry, read Citizens years ago and have never gotten the description of the Elephant of the Bastille out of my head.

I don't know about the conspiracy, but Boeing and the military are so co-dependent I wouldn't count on one ratting the other out unless the stakes were either really high or really low.
 

ChrisBoardman

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
661
Points
119
Analis said:
Personally, I don't see Boeing stating publicly that they don't accept the official version of events. They rely on military contracts, they are themselves an important part of the militaro-industrial complex, and they're 'patriots'.
I think the USA military use Lockheed, not boeing. Boeing are purely passenger airplanes these days.
 

Gwenar

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
88
Reaction score
3
Points
14
Boeing was still very much in the game as of 6 years ago. Things may have changed. But, remember, the military needs transport as much as they need fighter planes.

Everyone was experimenting with making things lighter without much success back then, and Boeing was still flush with cash and asking for lighter and lighter parts to put on their planes. Lots of money was thrown at the problem of how to make things weigh less but remain functional with wear.
 

Zilch5

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,565
Reaction score
45
Points
54
ChrisBoardman said:
Analis said:
Personally, I don't see Boeing stating publicly that they don't accept the official version of events. They rely on military contracts, they are themselves an important part of the militaro-industrial complex, and they're 'patriots'.
I think the USA military use Lockheed, not boeing. Boeing are purely passenger airplanes these days.
The US military doesn't use Boeing anymore - but many others sure do. The Boeing Defence website lists Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, Israel, India, Italy, Japan, Korea, Middle East, Russia, Spain and the UK. That's not exactly civil aircraft only.
 

Analis

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
356
Points
99
While Boeing's involvment with the US military has slowed down in recent years (they were notably involved in a number of cancelled projects), it has not completely ended.
Boeing was one of the co-contractors for the development of YF22 fighter jet. It is also the furnisher of AWACS planes. The needs of the US armed forces for these products are currently fulfilled, but it may change in the future. Boeing is also one of the developers of the Tomahawk missiles, whom the US military and the CIA are in constant need of. A s recently as February 2011, they received a contract for 179 KC-46 U.S. Air Force tankers at a value of $35 billions.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/41766812/ns/b ... fuzXm3FlBA

They have also a number of future projets they will try to get the US military involved in.
 

Zilch5

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,565
Reaction score
45
Points
54
The Australian version of 60 Minutes did a segment on TWA800 on Sunday and on how most experts now seem to agree that it was shot down by a missile.

You can see the video here -though I suspect it will be geo blocked for those outside of Australia:

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/videoindex.aspx
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
32,749
Reaction score
40,414
Points
309
Location
HM The Tower of London
Yes, it's working for me, here in t'UK! :D
 

rynner2

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 7, 2001
Messages
55,231
Reaction score
9,134
Points
284
Zilch5 said:
The Australian version of 60 Minutes did a segment on TWA800 on Sunday and on how most experts now seem to agree that it was shot down by a missile.

You can see the video here -though I suspect it will be geo blocked for those outside of Australia:

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/videoindex.aspx
Video played here OK - but seemed to be about Justice for Keisha. But after coming here to post that info, a new clip about TWA 800 began! So it is available in UK, just don't give up too early! (Or I guess you could FF to it.)
 

kamalktk

Antediluvian
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
5,848
Reaction score
9,720
Points
294
rynner2 said:
Zilch5 said:
The Australian version of 60 Minutes did a segment on TWA800 on Sunday and on how most experts now seem to agree that it was shot down by a missile.

You can see the video here -though I suspect it will be geo blocked for those outside of Australia:

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/videoindex.aspx
Video played here OK - but seemed to be about Justice for Keisha. But after coming here to post that info, a new clip about TWA 800 began! So it is available in UK, just don't give up too early! (Or I guess you could FF to it.)
In the sidebar to the right of the video you can click right over to it.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
21,822
Reaction score
31,212
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
It played fine for me (USA).
 

Cochise

Priest of the cult of the Dog with the Broken Paw
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
6,711
Reaction score
9,173
Points
284
It's an American conspiracy theory, admittedly not on the list, but it's one that I do think is possibly true TWA 800 was brought down by a missile.

It may be discussed on here somewhere - my forum-fu is not great and I couldn't find a mention of it.
 
Top