Yithian,
..3) Why is the 'limpet mine' attached to the tanker at such a high level above the waterline? ..
Exactly what I wondered the moment I saw the image of the tanker's side.
Minimalists,
..I served almost 7 years in the military and thankfully never had to shoot any one.....Nothing gets my gaul worst than some one who has no frigging idea about what these men and women go through in the military....Then cry out in a public forum that the US has never been hurt! Like hell we haven't! ..
I don't think you actually understood what was written. In fact you flew off the handle at the first hint of criticism, as many of your countrymen (and women) do.
Let's take your paragraph apart.
Seven years in the military. I do believe we have had this discussion already. Maybe on a different forum under different user names (I recognnise your avatar) when I mentioned that I also had served in the Army for seven years. So please don't give me the spiel abut not knowing anything about the military.
You really aught to check your facts before hitting the keyboard in anger.
I was, as most will have understood, talking about the attacks on the lower 48 States during World War Two.
As far as I am aware, there were none. There was an incident where a picnic party found a Japanese balloon bomb, and caused it to go off. This resulted in six dead.
To the best of my knowledge, these were the only people killed in the lower 48 during WWII; please correct me if I'm wrong. No one is disputing the sacrifices made by American military personnel. We did lose a few ourselves, as did all the Allied nations.
My point is that your country did not suffer the loss of a vast majority of it's infrastructure due to enemy action. All the folks there were able to carry on their normal everyday lives.
and after the war was over, they did not have to go through a major rebuild of their industry. Nor did they have to live on rations as we did until the early fifties.
I'm glad for that as I have relations in the States, and parcels from them helped us through those times.
So, 50 to 55 Million civilians killed in Europe, six in the US. You see the disparity.
The thing is, if a country continually manages to avoid it's people (civilians) and it's infrastructure being destroyed then it does not know what it is like to be on the wrong end of the stick. And the civilians of today are not as attuned to the grief as are those who spent five years being continually bombed and shelled as those who did. We had to observe strict black out procedures due to the thread of bombers at night.
So they are more likely to support hawkish tactics.
So, To sum up.
I also served the same length of time in the military as you did; and I also never had to shoot at anyone, though I was shot at a couple of time in Aden.
A large part of my country, and even more of mainland Europe was destroyed, None of yours was.
I lost my grandfather in WWI, and two uncles and an aunt in WWII. So my family paid it's dues.
I have no objection to anyone disagreeing with me on anything, but please check the facts first.
INT21.
The video isn't proof of anything more than a small boat near a large one. As has been said, if it's military footage it's been deliberately blurred.
I'm wondering what Iran's motive is in damaging, but not disastrously, oil tankers. What would be their desired outcome?
If the US have convincing proof, this isn't it. Our government have leapt in with support straight away. Unless they have knowledge of more compelling evidence which is not publicly known, on the basis of this footage they would seem to be on shaky ground.
As with so many events that involve governments, I don't think the majority of us will ever know what really happened with the Liberty.Bears all the hallmarks of a false flag op trying to provoke war between the US and Iran.
Remember the USS Liberty attack.
....2) The height above the waterline that the limpet mines were deployed is entirely consistent with a small vessel sidling up to the vast tanker at night and the magnetic mine being attached at the same level as whatever apparatus or personnel were on the small vessel.
Maybe the aim is not to sink or severely damage the tanker, but to produce shock and horror? An act of terrorism rather than war? To scare the oil tanker operators away.I think Yith's point may be that if you actually want to severely damage a large vessel then limpet mines would usually be deployed below the water line, at which point a relatively small charge can - by breaching the vessel - create significantly more disruption than it would at a point several meters above the level of the water. Also, it is at this lower point that the explosives destructive energy is directed into the fabric of the vessel by the fact that it is surrounded on the other side by water - the side of greatest resistance.
That said 'limpet mine' has probably become a fairly generic term for a magnetically fixed charge - which could conceivably cover an entire array of devices. And - sitting on the fence and suspending disbelief for a moment - if an aggressor was simply trying to make a point, or create disruption rather than destruction (and limpet mines probably wouldn't be the first choice for the latter), then all you need is for something to go bang.
Maybe the aim is not to sink or severely damage the tanker, but to produce shock and horror? An act of terrorism rather than war? To scare the oil tanker operators away.
...As something like one third of the world's oil trade passes through the Persian Gulf, threatening to disrupt it has global implications. Just as during the Tanker Wars, Iran is gambling that the enormity of such actions will become a significant bargaining point to force a resolution.
Exactly.
Huge flames and massive plumes of black smoke send far more of a signal than a hole below the waterline which, on ships as large as these, would not be anywhere near as dramatic.
Multiple reports claim that it was a "Gashti-class patrol boat".German Foreign Minister questions US narrative.
GERMANY JOINS CHORUS CASTING DOUBT ON TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CLAIM THAT IRAN WAS BEHIND ATTACK ON OIL TANKERS
https://www.newsweek.com/iran-gulf-oman-germany-trump-administration-1444112
Multiple reports claim that it was a "Gashti-class patrol boat".
There apparently is no such class boat in their navy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_ships_of_the_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran_Navy
I'll think about it.So your woo hoo is better than mine....They ought to start a forum here called Town Criers don't imagine it would take long to fill it up.
Good catch, thank you for the correction.There's no such patrol boat listed among the vessels operated by the Iranian regular Navy. Iran has two naval forces - the regular Navy and the naval forces of the IRGC (Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps). The Gashti class patrol boat is listed among the inventory belonging to the IRGC naval forces.
This February 2017 overview of Iranian naval forces published by the (US) Office of Naval Intelligence:
https://www.oni.navy.mil/Portals/12/Intel agencies/iran/Iran 022217SP.pdf
... lists the Gashti class among the IRGC's surface vessels (p. 34).
The Gashti type is not among the vessels illustrated in the identification guide on p. 35 in the same document.
Iran's motive is exactly the same as it was during the "Tanker Wars" in the 80s: to weaponise the sea-lanes and disrupt the flow of oil products. It was only after a US ship was seriously damaged by an Iranian mine whilst patrolling the Persian Gulf, that the US retaliated (Operation Praying Mantis), destroying a large proportion of the Iranian navy.
The Iranian leaders are furious about the ongoing sanctions imposed by the UN, EU and US. Given Iran's continued uranium enrichment and involvement in international terrorism, there is no sign of sanctions being relaxed.
As something like one third of the world's oil trade passes through the Persian Gulf, threatening to disrupt it has global implications. Just as during the Tanker Wars, Iran is gambling that the enormity of such actions will become a significant bargaining point to force a resolution.
eco terrorist?
It would take a Bond Eco-Terrorist Villain to carry out those types of attacks.
There's no such patrol boat listed among the vessels operated by the Iranian regular Navy. Iran has two naval forces - the regular Navy and the naval forces of the IRGC (Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps). The Gashti class patrol boat is listed among the inventory belonging to the IRGC naval forces.
This February 2017 overview of Iranian naval forces published by the (US) Office of Naval Intelligence:
https://www.oni.navy.mil/Portals/12/Intel agencies/iran/Iran 022217SP.pdf
... lists the Gashti class among the IRGC's surface vessels (p. 34).
The Gashti type is not among the vessels illustrated in the identification guide on p. 35 in the same document.
I don't think the rulers of Iran care what the world thinks about them. They are openly admitting to exceeding the permitted stockpile of enriched uranium, including near weapon-grade and they still execute more people (including juveniles) than any other country except China.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...reak-uranium-stockpile-limit-set-nuclear-deal
They are the archetypal "Everyone hates us (except for Putin and Assad of course), but we don't care." fascist state.
The increase in Iran's nuclear material stockpile seems to be fairly well explained when you take into account that they are complaining that the co-members of the nuclear agreement, the one Trump pulled out of, have not been keeping up their end of the agreement. They feel cheated.
If Iran did get a nuclear armed missile, then it would put them at the same level as North Korea. They would be able to say, 'Ok America (or any other nuclear power) go ahead and attack us. See what happens'.
So you could say the idea is protective. The only defense against a bully with a big stick is to get your own stick.
It is unlikely a nuclear war would ever start, but it could. All sides know there would be no winner.
Sadly, during the height of the rhetoric exchanges with North Korea, Trump said that he agreed there would be casualties (AKA the entire population of South Korea's and much of the other places in the region), 'But Not Here'.
And that is the critical part. The mindset that Trump has.
By the way, interesting turn of events regarding the installation of malware on Russian Power grids, and the co-incidental of the South American power failure.
Anyone for a conspiracy theory ?
INT21.
p.s. Just heard Morsy has died. More trouble for Egypt on the horizon.
INT21.
And here is a daytime photo of the Kremlin:A clearer photo of the Iranian boat, taken before nightfall
And here is a daytime photo of the Kremlin: View attachment 18171All Putin needs to do is explain precisely what his palace was doing, at night, alongside the tanker.
You posted a context-free picture of a boat as though it was some sort of smoking gun. I was trying to suggest that something more concrete in the way of evidence might be needed. Otherwise, we could just point our fingers at any regime we might not like very much.Sorry, don't get it.