Where Does It Come From? Origins Of Phrases & Expressions

[JaneD]

I don't know if this would be better off in a new thread titled something like "Phrases you think only your parents ever used" (or if one already exists then please move it)

My mother would look out the front windows of the house if there was (eg) a storm approaching and say "Looking dark 'over Will's mother's way'", to indicate a place within sight but far off, not quite on the horizon. I don't know where that phrase originated.

Also, if we were naughty children, she would threaten us with being sent to stay "With Mrs Brown, three doors down!".
Now, there was a Mrs Brown, but she lived 4 doors down, and she was a lovely old lady who we enjoyed visiting occasionally. So we weren't sure what our mum meant really.

We were also warned about 'pulling faces' as "if the wind changes, you'll stay that way".

it’s part of ye olde family sayings - ‘it’s black over Bill’s mother’s’ along with whether cows are lying down or staring stolidly at teeming rain and intoning ‘i think it’s brightening up’ or suggesting there is enough blue sky to make a sailor a pair of trousers.

 

[Mikefule]

My mother would look out the front windows of the house if there was (eg) a storm approaching and say "Looking dark 'over Will's mother's way'", to indicate a place within sight but far off, not quite on the horizon. I don't know where that phrase originated.

In Nottingham, the equivalent expression is, "It's a bit black over Bill's mother's," said whenever heavy rain appears imminent.

Older people often pronounce it with "over" rhyming with "hover" and "mother's" rhyming with "bothers".

 

[PeteByrdie]

In Nottingham, the equivalent expression is, "It's a bit black over Bill's mother's," said whenever heavy rain appears imminent.

Older people often pronounce it with "over" rhyming with "hover" and "mother's" rhyming with "bothers".

I've only heard 'It's a bit dark over Will's mother's'. It's always baffled me.

 

[Sollywos]

Dick's mothers was what we said in Suffolk ... I still use it.

I like the expression when someone has asked you where something is and you can't be bothered to help them in their search 'Oh it's up in granny's room behind the clock' which I learned off my FiL who grew up in Lancashire.

 

[Trevp666]

enough blue sky to make a sailor a pair of trousers.

Wait....what?!

 

[JaneD]

Wait....what?!

They used to wear wide bell-bottomed trousers so they would need a lot of material i suppose……

 

[Mikefule]

...or suggesting there is enough blue sky to make a sailor a pair of trousers.

My wife is from Gloucestershire. Her mother moved there from Hastings. Therefore, I do not know if this expression originated in Gloucestershire or Hastings — but I do know which one is nearer to the sea. (Hastings.)

My wife's mother would say, "There's just enough [blue sky] to patch a sailor's trousers."

The expression is used when the sky is mainly overcast, but a small bit of blue sky peeps through.

 

[Tunn11]

My wife is from Gloucestershire. Her mother moved there from Hastings. Therefore, I do not know if this expression originated in Gloucestershire or Hastings — but I do know which one is nearer to the sea. (Hastings.)

My wife's mother would say, "There's just enough [blue sky] to patch a sailor's trousers."

The expression is used when the sky is mainly overcast, but a small bit of blue sky peeps through.

It was always a Dutchman's trousers when I were a lad. When I asked about it I was told that blue trousers were Dutch national costume. However I can't find any reference to that; if anything they look black or possibly Prussian Blue.

 

[Trevp666]

And what about the oft used description of an unquantifiable large amount of something as being "more xxxxxxx than you can shake a stick at" ?
What sort of stick?
And why shaking it?
And how?
And also, how does the shaking of a stick in the direction of something become more difficult if there is a larger quantity of it?

 

[Sid]

It was always a Dutchman's trousers when I were a lad. When I asked about it I was told that blue trousers were Dutch national costume. However I can't find any reference to that; if anything they look black or possibly Prussian Blue.

Also, this alternative: I came across this (a flower - Dicentra_Cucullaria) which suggests a similar sailor's dress - which is suggesting that the saying might well have been 'white trousers,' with blue being the colour of their underwear - sounds more plausible, i.e., 'white clouds with blue patches here and there!'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicentra_cucullaria

 

[Stormkhan]

Wait....what?!

My Mum (Eastend Londoner) would say "It'll be a dry day if there's enough blue sky to make a man's shirt".
Indicating a lack of cloud, of course, but utter tripe!

 

[Tunn11]

My Mum (Eastend Londoner) would say "It'll be a dry day if there's enough blue sky to make a man's shirt".
Indicating a lack of cloud, of course, but utter tripe!

Tripe in the East End? That's jellied eel territory.

 

[Trevp666]

Don't forget cockles, and pie'n'mash'n'liquer.

 

[EnolaGaia]

And what about the oft used description of an unquantifiable large amount of something as being "more xxxxxxx than you can shake a stick at" ?
What sort of stick?
And why shaking it?
And how?
And also, how does the shaking of a stick in the direction of something become more difficult if there is a larger quantity of it?

This idiom is documented only as far back as the beginning of the 19th century, of apparently American origin. AFAIK the exact analogy underlying the saying has never been proven. There are two related but distinct senses to the phrase:

- "too many to count / enumerate"
- "too many to control / manage / handle"

The first sense might derive from the common habit of pointing to things you're counting at a distance (e.g., pointing a pencil at a stack of boxes to track which you've already counted and which you haven't). One specific suggestion is that it refers to a shepherd pointing with a staff when counting sheep.

The second sense is also sometimes attributed to shepherds or cowherds, meaning more animals than you can control or direct by "shaking" your staff or a stick at them. A more common variant on this second sense concerns too many threats (e.g., attacking animals) to ward off using a wielded "stick."

 

[JaneD]

My wife is from Gloucestershire. Her mother moved there from Hastings. Therefore, I do not know if this expression originated in Gloucestershire or Hastings — but I do know which one is nearer to the sea. (Hastings.)

My wife's mother would say, "There's just enough [blue sky] to patch a sailor's trousers."

The expression is used when the sky is mainly overcast, but a small bit of blue sky peeps through.

My grandma used to say this all the time and she was from about as far away from Hastings as you can get and still be in England.

 

[Sid]

Don't forget cockles, and pie'n'mash'n'liquer.

As well as the sight a red-hot brazier roasting Chestnuts illuminated amongst the dense choking London fog! Breath that in without a handkerchief covering your face, and you'd be coughing up all night, once you'd blown out your nostrils many times over, then you could possibly breath normally once again. Oh, those loverly memories.

 

[catseye]

I've recently had edits back for the latest book and my EDITOR (ie, a professional in all things wordy) tried to correct 'she's got another think coming' to 'she's got another THING coming.'

Research on my part proves that this latter travesty is now being accepted useage! I could possibly have let it slide, except that the first part of the sentence includes the words 'If she thinks that....' So how my editor can possibly believe that 'If she thinks that, she's got another thing coming' could ever be correct in any universe boggles my mind.

And yes, as I told my editor, this IS the hill I am prepared to die on.

 

[Trevp666]

Pfft...sounds like your editor is looking for some kind of escaped goat.

 

[hunck]

I've recently had edits back for the latest book and my EDITOR (ie, a professional in all things wordy) tried to correct 'she's got another think coming' to 'she's got another THING coming.'

Research on my part proves that this latter travesty is now being accepted useage! I could possibly have let it slide, except that the first part of the sentence includes the words 'If she thinks that....' So how my editor can possibly believe that 'If she thinks that, she's got another thing coming' could ever be correct in any universe boggles my mind.

And yes, as I told my editor, this IS the hill I am prepared to die on.

Could be linked to the way some people say ‘somethink’ instead of ‘something’. I’ve noticed scousers seem to be prone to this & ex-pro cyclist Chris Boardman uses it regularly in his commentaries.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I've recently had edits back for the latest book and my EDITOR (ie, a professional in all things wordy) tried to correct 'she's got another think coming' to 'she's got another THING coming.'

Oh dear. That's not good.
Editors are supposed to know this stuff, but some don't. This is why the English language is slowly morphing - people rarely challenge others who have set themselves up as 'experts'.

 

[Sid]

I've recently had edits back for the latest book and my EDITOR (ie, a professional in all things wordy) tried to correct 'she's got another think coming' to 'she's got another THING coming.'

Research on my part proves that this latter travesty is now being accepted useage! I could possibly have let it slide, except that the first part of the sentence includes the words 'If she thinks that....' So how my editor can possibly believe that 'If she thinks that, she's got another thing coming' could ever be correct in any universe boggles my mind.

And yes, as I told my editor, this IS the hill I am prepared to die on.

The link seems to lie somewhere between "think" and "thought?"
Myself (certainly not the best of an education) I would have used the words - got another 'thing' coming, simply because that's how I've always taken that phrase to be said. However, the 'think' entry seems to have been used as the original use of the phrase.

 

[Yithian]

I've recently had edits back for the latest book and my EDITOR (ie, a professional in all things wordy) tried to correct 'she's got another think coming' to 'she's got another THING coming.'

Judas Priest fan.

 

[Sid]

Judas Priest fan.

Except they seemed to have dropped their "G'ees!"

• "You've Got Another Thing Comin"

 

[brownmane]

Whit? Woah, woah haud on a wee meenitie here!!

In Scotland, us aulder fowk hae ayeways caa'd yir erse, yir "dowp" (an mebbies thi richt same wurd is uised doon in Yorkshire an Northummerlan? Bit am nae deid certin o' that kinna Doric ....).

'Moan yis ither feelow cairters fae thi norn pairts o' thi isle......! Aye, lykes o' @Frideswide / @Min Bannister / @Comfortably Numb (an @maximus otter oan yir mithir's side o' thi family, or siklykes kin tae ye).... Am a richt, or am a richt aboot this?

Love this. I have to read it aloud to understand it. Love the accent.

 

[Sgt Girth]

Whit? Woah, woah haud on a wee meenitie here!!

In Scotland, us aulder fowk hae ayeways caa'd yir erse, yir "dowp" (an mebbies thi richt same wurd is uised doon in Yorkshire an Northummerlan? Bit am nae deid certin o' that kinna Doric ....).

'Moan yis ither feelow cairters fae thi norn pairts o' thi isle......! Aye, lykes o' @Frideswide / @Min Bannister / @Comfortably Numb (an @maximus otter oan yir mithir's side o' thi family, or siklykes kin tae ye).... Am a richt, or am a richt aboot this?

Mebbies aye……..Mebbies nooooo.

 

[Coal]

Whit? Woah, woah haud on a wee meenitie here!!

In Scotland, us aulder fowk hae ayeways caa'd yir erse, yir "dowp" (an mebbies thi richt same wurd is uised doon in Yorkshire an Northummerlan? Bit am nae deid certin o' that kinna Doric ....).

'Moan yis ither feelow cairters fae thi norn pairts o' thi isle......! Aye, lykes o' @Frideswide / @Min Bannister / @Comfortably Numb (an @maximus otter oan yir mithir's side o' thi family, or siklykes kin tae ye).... Am a richt, or am a richt aboot this?

Wow, that was like being back at primary school in 1970.

 

[Sid]

Mythopoeika said:
(This line of discussion transplanted from the WTF thread and mentions of 'dupa' being Polish for 'arse'.
________________________
Oh dear, look what I started!!

"Yeah!" It's good innit!

 

[Tunn11]

I was always intrigued by "parting shot" which I understood to have correctly been "Parthian shot" after the Parthian horse archers who had perfected the art of firing at least one aimed shot behind them when seemingly retreating.

This has become corrupted to "parting shot" but has essentially the same meaning.

 

[EnolaGaia]

I was always intrigued by "parting shot" which I understood to have correctly been "Parthian shot" after the Parthian horse archers who had perfected the art of firing at least one aimed shot behind them when seemingly retreating.

This has become corrupted to "parting shot" but has essentially the same meaning.

The possible connection between "parting shot" and "Parthian shot" has been a subject of debate for a long time. Some claim "parting shot" derived from "Parthian shot"; others claim the reverse. Yet others claim it's a case of convergent evolution in which each version independently arose and disseminated.

 

[ChasFink]

I've recently had edits back for the latest book and my EDITOR (ie, a professional in all things wordy) tried to correct 'she's got another think coming' to 'she's got another THING coming.'

Research on my part proves that this latter travesty is now being accepted useage! I could possibly have let it slide, except that the first part of the sentence includes the words 'If she thinks that....' So how my editor can possibly believe that 'If she thinks that, she's got another thing coming' could ever be correct in any universe boggles my mind.

And yes, as I told my editor, this IS the hill I am prepared to die on.

I have always heard and said "another thing coming". It makes slightly less sense than "think", but neither makes much sense when you thing think about them. In what other contexts do you have things or thinks coming?

On the other hand, don't ever tell me you could care less, unless your voice is dripping with sarcasm.