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Serial Killers

maximus otter said:
That is uncannily accurate: Architect, pizza box, pickup truck, gun collection…

Details of the suspect Rex Heuermann.

:omg:

maximus otter
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Now charged with 4 murders.

An architect charged with a string of slayings known as the Gilgo Beach killings has been accused of taking the life of a fourth woman, a Connecticut mother-of-two who vanished in 2007 and whose remains were found more than three years later along a coastal motorway in New York.

Rex Heuermann has been formally charged over the death of Maureen Brainard-Barnes, months after being labelled the prime suspect in her death when he was arrested in July over the deaths of three other women.

In court on Tuesday, Heuermann wore a dark suit and did not say anything during proceedings.

He will continue to be held without bail.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/g...-accused-of-killing-fourth-woman-1576039.html
 
Rex needs what Rex needs.

What sucks worse than his hideous crimes is that the wife let it all happen without a peep. She's culpable too.
 
brownmane said:
Where did you get that the wife knew of the crimes, Skinny? I only read the two articles here and they only relate to his arrest and charges.
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Only reference I can find is that he waited until she was away before committing the murders. :dunno:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67947338?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

Prosecutors revealed new evidence in the latest court filings unsealed on Tuesday, including a credit card statement showing Mr Heuermann's wife checked into a hotel in New Jersey during the time of the alleged murders.
His family's absence gave Mr Heuermann "unfettered time to execute his plans for each victim", prosecutors said, "without any fear that his family would uncover or learn of his involvement in these crimes".
His wife, whom he married in 1996, according to CNN, filed for divorce within a few days of his arrest. The Associated Press has reported that he also has a stepson.
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brownmane said:
Where did you get that the wife knew of the crimes, Skinny? I only read the two articles here and they only relate to his arrest and charges.
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I listen to this channel all the time. He’s usually right on the money.

 
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skinny said:
I listen to this channel all the time. He’s usually right on the money.

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I listened to 30 minutes, skipping ahead several minutes sometimes (the hesitant speech is irritating to me). The only thing I hear is that witness statements allege that he and his spouse were "swingers" and hired sex workers and that he had a dungeon in basement (bdsm? Though that terminology was not spoken).

This in itself is not evidence that the wife was involved in the actual murders that he is charged with. Just because someone has an alternative lifestyle doesn't equate to being knowledgeable of a crime.

I don't hear that the podcasters are even saying anything specific. They can't. They are commenting on what is known about an active court case.
 
There's much said about serial killer partners, especially Hindley/Brady and the Wests.
Sure, there was one dominant member in the partnership. However, when that domination overrides the abhorrence of killing, the subservient partner has no excuse. The dominant spots a 'sympathetic' attitude and uses that to establish the relationship, but that sympathetic attitude was there in the first place.
I suspect that many 'lock away' that spark of evil and it might never manifest itself. At times, all it takes is the 'right' person to unlock that spark.
Hindley might never have performed her heinous crimes if it were not for Brady, but that doesn't take the responsibility for her own actions. The same is doubly-true with Rose West. Even in court, her behaviour towards Fred was self-serving evil. Fred, though, was guilty - he had that 'spark' all along.
 
Stormkhan said:
There's much said about serial killer partners, especially Hindley/Brady and the Wests.
Sure, there was one dominant member in the partnership. However, when that domination overrides the abhorrence of killing, the subservient partner has no excuse. The dominant spots a 'sympathetic' attitude and uses that to establish the relationship, but that sympathetic attitude was there in the first place.
I suspect that many 'lock away' that spark of evil and it might never manifest itself. At times, all it takes is the 'right' person to unlock that spark.
Hindley might never have performed her heinous crimes if it were not for Brady, but that doesn't take the responsibility for her own actions. The same is doubly-true with Rose West. Even in court, her behaviour towards Fred was self-serving evil. Fred, though, was guilty - he had that 'spark' all along.
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At the time of Brady and Hindley's prosecutions, Hindley could have got off practically scot-free if she'd admitted abetting Brady but claimed he'd intimidated and controlled her. Instead she denied everything along with him and was fully implicated.

As Fred West was dead before he went to trial, Rose faced the charges alone. It didn't make any difference whether Fred was there not as there was enough evidence to convict them both.

Doesn't matter who in a couple begins the conversation about murder or other crimes. They are equally guilty.
One might even suggest that where there is an apparently dominant partner who shows themselves capable of violence or murder, the other should turn them in to save themselves.

This is what David Smith did, Brady and Hindley tried to compromise him by murdering Edward Evans in front of him and having him help them clean up the scene. As soon as he could, Smith fled and rang the police.
 
Stormkhan said:
Brady miscalculated when it came to Smith.
He had a high regard for his intelligence, power and manipulation so when it came to David he was 'drunk' with power.
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I can't even imagine what it must have been like for 17 year old David Smith. One minute he's in that living room chatting with Myra and that Scottish bloke, the next minute he's frozen to the spot watching Ian brutally destroying the kid with an axe. Witnessing something like that would stay with you until you're an old man. I think I'd probably puke watching something like that.
 
Richard Chase, the ‘Vampire' or 'Dracula of Sacramento.'

Not dinner party material.

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Think I've mentioned previously how I watched the excellent tv drama, Longford. Anyway, I had a curious reaction to it (I can't always tell whether my reactions to things are 'normal' or not). At one point, I strongly felt that Hindley had placed herself outside of human sympathy - I mean that she'd lost her soul, thrown it away. Ordinarily, a person might possibly find it within themselves to feel sorry for such a foolish and reckless fellow human, even if that sympathy is understandably tiny, grudging and reluctant; simply because her tragedy also had a tragic effect on others*. But I couldn't do it, just couldn't find any sympathy at all, and this troubled me and made me wonder if this was a failing of mine...

For all the fuss made by hypocritical journalists about how Hindley's sex led to her being demonised even more than Brady, deep within me I find it impossible to consider either as fellow humans because, ironically, their acts represent what they in their cynicism, nihilism and egotism set out to 'achieve': a distancing of themselves from the rest of us; and that leaves them beyond the reach of human sympathy.


* I should explain: it may seem appalling to suggest the possibility of any sympathy for such disgraces to the human race. However I'm not talking of, say, Christian 'charity' or moral codes - just the fact that the Murderers' deliberate decision to act-out their wilfully stupid, short-sighted and cowardly fantasies was a tragedy; far more importantly, their tragedy was not theirs alone, as it cost not only souls but actual lives.
 
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Don't underestimate the impact of society's expectations on certain groups.
Whenever brutality and vicious violent crime is found to be committed by women or children, there seems to me to be an overreaction of horror and demand for revenge. In general, society views women as being the comforter, the sensitive care-giver, the person expected to nurture. Children are seen as naïve innocents, 'unsullied' by violent urges and evil.
Mary Bell, Thomson & Venables, Hindley & Brady, Fred & Rose West - the public outcry seemed more vitriolic against the children and women. They were considered 'unnatural' and 'obscene'. Unnatural to the social image perhaps. Obscene? Well, I hold Fred just as horrific as Rose, a man who not only committed incest but killed his own child.
 
And let's consider their class too, and the concomitant press vilification: when a killer is the likes of Fred West, we're told that they came to a deserved and sordid end; when they're the likes of Lord Lucan, we're airily informed that they may have 'fallen on their sword'...as if they were honourable knights and victims of fate rather than scum.
 
Steven said:
And let's consider their class too, and the concomitant press vilification: when a killer is the likes of Fred West, we're told that they came to a deserved and sordid end; when they're the likes of Lord Lucan, we're airily informed that they may have 'fallen on their sword'...as if they were honourable knights and victims of fate rather than scum.
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Lucan wasn't a serial killer, he apparently thought he was murdering his wife.

The Wests were serial killers and sordid, and Fred's death was richly deserved.

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
Lucan wasn't a serial killer, he apparently thought he was murdering his wife.

The Wests were serial killers and sordid, and Fred's death was richly deserved.

maximus otter
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It was a matter of good fortune that his wife survived his assault.

I'm sure you realise that, far from defending the loathsome Wests, I was merely contrasting media coverage of their backgrounds and habits with the coverage people like Lucan often receive. Just because he might've had his shoes handmade in Jermyn Street, that doesn't make him any better than them or his crimes any more 'fragrant'.
 
Steven said:
I'm sure you realise that, far from defending the loathsome Wests, I was merely contrasting media coverage...
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Indeed.

I'm sure you realise that I was contrasting the systematic murder of at least 12 young women over 20 years, with the impulsive attempt to murder a wife whom he perceived as trying to take away his children.

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
Indeed.

I'm sure you realise that I was contrasting the systematic murder of at least 12 young women over 20 years, with the impulsive attempt to murder a wife whom he perceived as trying to take away his children.

maximus otter
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Obviously, I could defend my various points - and criticise your own - but I'm new to this forum and don't wish this to possibly end in an argument or atmosphere. Out of respect for your forum-veteran status, I'll not continue.
 
Taking Lucan (and his obvious class bias, what with his wealthy chums helping out etc.) out of the equation/discussion about serial killers, is there a more fair comparison i.e. a wealthy person found guilty of serial killing/spree killing?
Or - and this is an interesting thing - do serial killers tend to come from middle or low-class backgrounds?
I'm excluding Gilles de Rais, Elizabet Batory and historical figures, whose brutality and sheer scale of killing was almost 'enabled' by the period of history and society that they were in.
 
Yithian said:
Richard Chase, the ‘Vampire' or 'Dracula of Sacramento.'

Not dinner party material.

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Oddly one of the few serial killers I can find some mitigation for. He was, to use an outdated term, nuts. No, worse, batshit crazy. But, allegedly, under control when on medication. Except (IIRC) his mother didn't agree with the medication and encouraged him not to take it.

Whether someone who is only safe when medicated is ever a justifiable risk in the community unsupervised is a debate for elsewhere.
 
Stormkhan said:
I'm excluding Gilles de Rais, Elizabet Batory and historical figures, whose brutality and sheer scale of killing was almost 'enabled' by the period of history and society that they were in.
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It's really impossible at this distance in time to sperate fact from fiction in such cases, and they often have a political / dynastic context as well. But taken at face value the first two cases illustrate even the privileged immune have things 'up with which they will not put'.
 
Stormkhan said:
Taking Lucan (and his obvious class bias, what with his wealthy chums helping out etc.) out of the equation/discussion about serial killers, is there a more fair comparison i.e. a wealthy person found guilty of serial killing/spree killing?
Or - and this is an interesting thing - do serial killers tend to come from middle or low-class backgrounds?
I'm excluding Gilles de Rais, Elizabet Batory and historical figures, whose brutality and sheer scale of killing was almost 'enabled' by the period of history and society that they were in.
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There were the two college kids in the US who decided they were bright enough to kill someone and get away with it (They weren't)* Not serial killing or a spree but if one is an inept serial or spree killer then one is possibly just a killer.

So many murders now seem to be tried as manslaughter then the initial killing by a potential serial killer may be missed if they are caught in time. Oh yes we caught him bashing in the sex worker's head with a hammer but he only carried it because he felt threatened and she laughed at him there was no intention to kill.

I also imagine that a distasteful action may become less distasteful the more one does it.

*I was thinking of an older US case but there is this recent one from the UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67727331
 
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