A
Bullseye
Abominable Snowman
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2002
- Messages
- 960
OK, Dead ABC's, I see about 6 to 10 badgers a week and have only ever found one dead one (apart from road kills,and I see about 3 of them a week).Deer, I see about a dozen a month, have only found 2 dead one of which was road kill, one was shot.Foxes, 10 a week, never found a dead one apart from roadkills and shot ones. So chances of finding dead ABC's which are much rarer are pretty remote. Lots of the deer around here are black to dark grey (all fallow deer round here).Have talked to people who walk through the same woods as me but many of them never see anything, is it me or is it them walking round with there eyes closed.Have been tracking wild boar for two years now ,found day nests, mud wallows and tracks but have not seen one yet(my wife saw 5 run behind here, she was trailing about 100 yds behind me).All this within 10 miles of a busy seaside town, the inhabitants of which have no idea of what is near them!.Some of the smaller ABC's have been found, shot and roadkills.But a lot of folks can't tell a cat from a fox, I have two Miane Coon cats tha male of which is a big ginger bugger, some people seeing him from a distance think at first that he's a fox!!:eek!!!!:
A
Anonymous
Guest
Well, thanx to FT167 we have a fairly comprehensive list of all the ABC's caught or killed or found dead since 1981
Eliminating those with collars(obviously pets)
we have
3 leopard cats, a spotted cat a little bigger than a domestic cat
3 jungle cats a lynx-like cat 3x domestic size,
1 dead lioness in a lake (?dumped?)
2 puma
2 lynx
1 black panther cub (found 80 miles from Colchester Zoo, where one had been stolen the day before)
and 9 Kellas cats...
it seems obvious that there is a breeding population of Kellas cats, but not of the other species
One of the pumas,'Felicity' was captured and had been living in the wild, although she seemed tame.
Many reports recently have been of melanistic leopards, or 'maladjusted' as the papers would have it.
Apart from the (?recaptured) cub there is little evidence of black leopards or panthers...
these are the sort of cats that would be most easily reported if a large black male domestic cat was sighted under conditions where scale was difficult to estimate...
the photos in FT167 all seem to me to be domestic cats, mostly black.
it seems likely that there are no black ABCs unless you count the Kellas breeding population.
But I could be wrong.
Eliminating those with collars(obviously pets)
we have
3 leopard cats, a spotted cat a little bigger than a domestic cat
3 jungle cats a lynx-like cat 3x domestic size,
1 dead lioness in a lake (?dumped?)
2 puma
2 lynx
1 black panther cub (found 80 miles from Colchester Zoo, where one had been stolen the day before)
and 9 Kellas cats...
it seems obvious that there is a breeding population of Kellas cats, but not of the other species
One of the pumas,'Felicity' was captured and had been living in the wild, although she seemed tame.
Many reports recently have been of melanistic leopards, or 'maladjusted' as the papers would have it.
Apart from the (?recaptured) cub there is little evidence of black leopards or panthers...
these are the sort of cats that would be most easily reported if a large black male domestic cat was sighted under conditions where scale was difficult to estimate...
the photos in FT167 all seem to me to be domestic cats, mostly black.
it seems likely that there are no black ABCs unless you count the Kellas breeding population.
But I could be wrong.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2002
- Messages
- 450
Um, Michael, I see you point, but the thing is, those are your own personal statistics. I, on the other hand, have seen one live badger in my life, and more dead ones than I can count. Why aren't you counting roadkills? Are they not dead enough?
Big cats can get killed on the road just as well as a badger can, if they are there, though they'd do a bit more damage to your car.
I know a lot of people seem to live with their heads in the sand regarding wildlife, and wouldn't see a big cat if it lived in their garden, but on the other hand, some people don't. Badgers etc, even though some people can live on top of them and never see one their entire life, are there for anyone to see if they want to take the time on the effort. People have been taking the time and effort to try and find big cats for years, with no conclusive results.
And since 1981, that's not so impressive for big cats, if you want to argue for a breeding population. One black panther that presumably belonged to Colchester Zoo and hadn't been loose more than a day. 2 pumas, one of which was certainly released from captivity. Lynxes are more common found dead, but far less commonly sighted.
I'd agree with Eburacum about most black cat sightings. Explains why no one sees spotted leopards, and of course, a domestic cat of any other colour- tabby, black and white etc, would be easy to identify for what it is. Besides, the sightings, like a good fortean phenomena seems to go in fads - which doesn't suggest a real animal behaviour to me. When the Surrey puma was all the riot, every one was seeing pumas - sandy brown coloured cats. Now the big black ones are on the news, everyone is seeing them. Puma-coloured cats are very unfashionable nowadays.
I'm not denying the big cats are there, I've seen one myself, but these are the questions I always wonder about. And, people being people, memory being subjective etc I think a lot of reported sightings aren't what they are claimed to be, maybe not even mine.
Big cats can get killed on the road just as well as a badger can, if they are there, though they'd do a bit more damage to your car. I know a lot of people seem to live with their heads in the sand regarding wildlife, and wouldn't see a big cat if it lived in their garden, but on the other hand, some people don't. Badgers etc, even though some people can live on top of them and never see one their entire life, are there for anyone to see if they want to take the time on the effort. People have been taking the time and effort to try and find big cats for years, with no conclusive results.
And since 1981, that's not so impressive for big cats, if you want to argue for a breeding population. One black panther that presumably belonged to Colchester Zoo and hadn't been loose more than a day. 2 pumas, one of which was certainly released from captivity. Lynxes are more common found dead, but far less commonly sighted.
I'd agree with Eburacum about most black cat sightings. Explains why no one sees spotted leopards, and of course, a domestic cat of any other colour- tabby, black and white etc, would be easy to identify for what it is. Besides, the sightings, like a good fortean phenomena seems to go in fads - which doesn't suggest a real animal behaviour to me. When the Surrey puma was all the riot, every one was seeing pumas - sandy brown coloured cats. Now the big black ones are on the news, everyone is seeing them. Puma-coloured cats are very unfashionable nowadays.
I'm not denying the big cats are there, I've seen one myself, but these are the questions I always wonder about. And, people being people, memory being subjective etc I think a lot of reported sightings aren't what they are claimed to be, maybe not even mine.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Black Leopards were very fashionable in the 1960s, and these cats will produce black offspring, but I wouldn't say that the Puma has become unfashionable, it depends on the reports received. Lynx, Jungle Cats, Caracal etc, were hardly spoken about several years ago and the pres tend to deal with things poorly, when the Exmoor cat was in the news, the only cat the press mentioned was either a 'Puma' or 'Puma like black animal' which is nonsense but something also being tied in with the Welsh encounters, the Exmoor 'beast' was never really looked at in-depth by the press at the same time, but now more serious studies are identifying a number of cats. However, would many witnesses be able to identify a Caracal if they saw it ? Probably not, but the Black Leopard is easily identifiable, even if over the years it has been given the wrong names, i.e. Black Puma, Black Panther. 85% of cat reports do concern the Black Leopard so there is every indication we know what we are dealing with. Lynxes are also commonly sighted.
The 'cub' spoken about hadn't come from Colchester Zoo, it was simply young from a local menagerie, the sighting took place in '75 when an angler saw it come from the bushes.
There are plenty of conclusive results that these cats are out there, but what more evidence do people want ? I would be interested to hear what kind of evidence people class as conclusive ?
The 'cub' spoken about hadn't come from Colchester Zoo, it was simply young from a local menagerie, the sighting took place in '75 when an angler saw it come from the bushes.
There are plenty of conclusive results that these cats are out there, but what more evidence do people want ? I would be interested to hear what kind of evidence people class as conclusive ?
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NEIL said:
That's what I meant - what's fashionable to report, not to own. I'm saying back in the 70s or whenever, everyone was seeing puma coloured animals, and now people always seem to see black cats. Such "fads" in sightings are a little strange if people are really seeing genuine animals all the time. Not that there aren't genuine animals out there, but if one person sees a black cat, I bet huge numbers of sightings are then reported that are actually domestic cats, dogs, black plastic bags etc etc. Eyes play tricks you know, especially after some news report has given you a hint about what you should be seeing.
Still captive bred then?
I think there is a hell of a lot of evidence that there are big cats out there, possibly in significant numbers, possibly breeding, but I don't recall any of the evidence actually being conclusive. Photos and films can be faked, or have misleading sense of scale, or show a captive animal, or anything. Eye witnesses can mis-remember and make mistakes, and even outright lie. All this evidence is persuasive, but not conclusive. Find me a dead cat! If they really are out there, and have been breeding for years as you claim, it shouldn't be so hard to find one. One that hasn't been captive bred. Thirty years after the flap has started and these big black cats are still appearing a wee bit... well, paranormal. Evidence fails to materialize at every turn. Photos get lost or ruined. Cats evade capture against all odds. No bodies found. Rumours about bodies, after cats have been hit by cars or shot by farmers, but still no bodies turn up. Oh okay, some bodies turn up, as Eburacum listed, but none that really fit the "big black cat" bill that everyone is expending so much effort on looking for.
As I've already said, I do believe the cats are out there, I'm really playing devil's advocate, and also these are just questions I'd genuinely like to know answers to.
A
Anonymous
Guest
All this is very fair comment Slytherin, and I agree that it is almost plausible for some folklorists to comapre these sightings to other paranormal creatures, i.e. black dogs etc. However, dead Black Leopards are not turning up in Mount Kenya either, a place they are native to but only as of last year had they been sighted, the first time for 40 years. Of course, in Britain it would seem more likely to find a corpse, especially as there are so many people around and allegedly so many 'big cats', but I guess that's the mystery of it all. My main concern is if some idiot shoots one just for the sake of having this sort of animal in his trophy cabinet, and with so many so called cat habitats being advertised, I believe this will happen, but this is a difficult animal to hit, and any p#*$ed of animal is going to be a very dangerous animal.
Witnesses can be very unreliable, people realise they have seen a large cat, but they often do not know what they have seen, then they add things and exaggerate so it's best to take many reports with a pinch of salt, but it depends on who is receiving the reports too. If twenty people report seeing a big black cat, nineteen of those could be incorrect and too many people are all too eager to class anything as a 'cat' sighting.
All I will say is, if bodies of these animals are the only way of convincing people, then many are going to remain unconvinced for a very long time.
Witnesses can be very unreliable, people realise they have seen a large cat, but they often do not know what they have seen, then they add things and exaggerate so it's best to take many reports with a pinch of salt, but it depends on who is receiving the reports too. If twenty people report seeing a big black cat, nineteen of those could be incorrect and too many people are all too eager to class anything as a 'cat' sighting.
All I will say is, if bodies of these animals are the only way of convincing people, then many are going to remain unconvinced for a very long time.
A
Anonymous
Guest
The recent case of a dog killed by an ABC in Wales: DNA testing suggests it was not an ABC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2705063.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2705063.stm
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2002
- Messages
- 450
Not those bloody badgers again! :eek!!!!:
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Anonymous
Guest
Political Row over Welsh Big Cat
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100...fm?objectid=12584995&method=full&siteid=50082
Big cat mystery unsolved as tests on killed dog reveal badger hairs Jan 30 2003
Catherine Jones, The Western Mail - The National Newspaper Of Wales
THE search for a big cat on the loose in Wales became a political row last night after DNA results on a dead animal become known.
Welsh Rural Affairs Minister Mike German had hardly finished saying that the tests on a whippet found dead on a farm near Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, showed that a leopard did not kill it than people from the area were angrily rejecting the findings.
Electron microscopy analysis of hair found in the dog's mouth and examined at the Government's Central Science Laboratory in York revealed that most of them came from a dog, although it was not possible to identify the breed.
Mr German said there was also evidence that other hairs could be from a badger, although he said the quality of the sample was not good enough for this to be conclusive.
But Dyfed-Powys Police still believe it is possible big cats exist in the area and Rhodri Glyn Thomas, the Plaid Cymru AM for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, is demanding a thorough examination of the situation following the number of credible reported sightings.
The owner of the dead dog, Mike Sheppard, 62, said he was fuming when he heard the news. He claimed he came face-to-face with two big cats "the size of pumas" when the incident happened.
"They don't know what they're talking about," said Mr Sheppard. "One minute they're saying it's a big predator then they're saying it was a dog or a badger. It's been seen. I've seen it. They're just trying to cover it up. Why? I don't know, but it was definitely not a badger that killed my dog."
A puma-like beast roaming across West Wales has been reported five times since it was believed to have attacked and killed the pet dog on January 5.
Professor Alayne Street-Perrot, part of the Exotic Cat Project that is studying these animal sightings across Wales, said there had been more than 90 sightings across South Wales in the past year.
Chief Inspector Nigel Davies of Dyfed-Powys Police said, "There are far too many sightings for there to be nothing there and we still have an open mind."
Mr Thomas said, "It's quite possible dog and badger hairs could have been present in the sample, but the witness is adamant at what he saw.
"I am rather surprised the minister has come to the conclusion he has. We take it for granted that people who live in Carmarthenshire can tell the difference between a badger and a big cat."
Alaric Smith, the zoologist for the Exotic Cat Society, said, "We don't accept these results. We were told by the Assembly's Agriculture and Rural Affairs Department that the samples were heavily contaminated both by human and by dog.
"The samples were left for a couple of days inside the mouth of the dog and they can't even identify half of them. We will be attempting to get the sample to conduct our own analysis - at a more specialised centre."
The National Assembly said the matter was closed.
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100...fm?objectid=12584995&method=full&siteid=50082
Big cat mystery unsolved as tests on killed dog reveal badger hairs Jan 30 2003
Catherine Jones, The Western Mail - The National Newspaper Of Wales
THE search for a big cat on the loose in Wales became a political row last night after DNA results on a dead animal become known.
Welsh Rural Affairs Minister Mike German had hardly finished saying that the tests on a whippet found dead on a farm near Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, showed that a leopard did not kill it than people from the area were angrily rejecting the findings.
Electron microscopy analysis of hair found in the dog's mouth and examined at the Government's Central Science Laboratory in York revealed that most of them came from a dog, although it was not possible to identify the breed.
Mr German said there was also evidence that other hairs could be from a badger, although he said the quality of the sample was not good enough for this to be conclusive.
But Dyfed-Powys Police still believe it is possible big cats exist in the area and Rhodri Glyn Thomas, the Plaid Cymru AM for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, is demanding a thorough examination of the situation following the number of credible reported sightings.
The owner of the dead dog, Mike Sheppard, 62, said he was fuming when he heard the news. He claimed he came face-to-face with two big cats "the size of pumas" when the incident happened.
"They don't know what they're talking about," said Mr Sheppard. "One minute they're saying it's a big predator then they're saying it was a dog or a badger. It's been seen. I've seen it. They're just trying to cover it up. Why? I don't know, but it was definitely not a badger that killed my dog."
A puma-like beast roaming across West Wales has been reported five times since it was believed to have attacked and killed the pet dog on January 5.
Professor Alayne Street-Perrot, part of the Exotic Cat Project that is studying these animal sightings across Wales, said there had been more than 90 sightings across South Wales in the past year.
Chief Inspector Nigel Davies of Dyfed-Powys Police said, "There are far too many sightings for there to be nothing there and we still have an open mind."
Mr Thomas said, "It's quite possible dog and badger hairs could have been present in the sample, but the witness is adamant at what he saw.
"I am rather surprised the minister has come to the conclusion he has. We take it for granted that people who live in Carmarthenshire can tell the difference between a badger and a big cat."
Alaric Smith, the zoologist for the Exotic Cat Society, said, "We don't accept these results. We were told by the Assembly's Agriculture and Rural Affairs Department that the samples were heavily contaminated both by human and by dog.
"The samples were left for a couple of days inside the mouth of the dog and they can't even identify half of them. We will be attempting to get the sample to conduct our own analysis - at a more specialised centre."
The National Assembly said the matter was closed.
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Di Francis speculated briefly on the possibility of a cover-up in her books (Cat Country, The Beast of Exmoor IIRC. She noticed that in cases where people took pictures, and talked about what they had seen before the pics were developed, the film was invariably spoiled in some way so the pictures showed nothing. As such, she was very careful after she photographed the cats not to publicize before the pictures were developed.
Forteaner and forteaner...
Forteaner and forteaner...
A
Anonymous
Guest
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100...fm?objectid=12588559&method=full&siteid=50082
Assembly steps up hunt for `big cat' evidence Jan 31 2003
Steve DubÉ, The Western Mail - The National Newspaper Of Wales
THE National Assembly is to call together representatives of all police forces in Wales to discuss claims that big cats are living and breeding in the countryside.
Officials will consider the catalogue of 170 sightings reported to police in the past eight years and the numerous reports of animal kills, including countless sheep, several dogs and two horses.
"Our wildlife experts are already working with police to collate all the data," said a National Assembly spokeswoman yesterday.
"But so far our experts have concluded that the horses and sheep were killed by dogs, alleged big cat paw prints have proved to be dogs', and video and audio evidence sent to us have been foxes."
The conclusions are in stark contrast to those reached by an American tracker who is certain that big cats are alive and breeding in Carmarthenshire.
Tom Brown and Kevin Reeve of the New Jersey-based Tracker Inc say the cats are getting bolder and warn that a potentially fatal encounter is possible in the near future.
Big cat hunters reacted angrily yesterday to suggestions by the National Assembly that they can't tell the difference between a cat and a badger.
Pat Davies of Rhydcymerau, who has been charting the movements of big cats around her North Carmarthenshire home for more than four years, said the claim smacked of a cover-up.
"If they admit it's a big cat they are terrified that it will open the floodgates to compensation claims from farmers and damage the tourist industry," said Mrs Davies. She said Welsh Rural Affairs Minister Mike German's interpretation of inconclusive DNA tests as evidence that country people were seeing things was insulting as well as complacent.
"We're not bothering with the Assembly any more. People are going to take the law into their own hands and shoot one."
Electronic microscopy tests on hairs found in the mouth of a whippet killed and disembowelled near a Llangadog smallholding earlier this month were inconclusive.
"Tests undertaken at the Government's Central Science Laboratory in York found no trace of DNA from a black leopard, and electron microscopy analysis of hair found in the dog's mouth did not match those of a leopard," said the Assembly
"Tests revealed that most of the hairs were from a dog, although it was not possible to identify the breed.
"There was also some evidence that other hairs could be from a badger, although the quality of the sample was not good enough for this to be conclusive."
Mrs Davies said the test itself could hardly be described as comprehensive.
"I've been down to the horse mart in Llanybydder today and people are absolutely disgusted," she said.
"They're asking whether Mr German thinks we're all stupid."
Police marksmen who saw the animal are also convinced it was a big cat, and farm worker Mike Sheppard insists he knows what he saw when he came across the animal standing over the dog's corpse.
"It was a big cat. It hissed at me and stood its ground," he said.
The American trackers back local people unequivocally.
"We can state without reservation that there is at least one mountain lion and one black panther, probably a melanistic leopard in the Rhydcmerau/Brechfa region," said Mr Brown, who visited Carmarthen-shire late last year.
The trackers were called in after numerous sightings and the deaths of sheep and a Shiatzu dog.
They found cat tracks in several locations as well as areas where cats had lain in hiding preparing for an attack.
"It is our belief that the forest in the area provides the cover and escape routes they need to maintain their relative secrecy, and that the sheep in the area provide an unlimited source of food," said Mr Brown.
"There have been several human/ cat interactions that would lead us to believe that the cats are slowly loosing their fear of humans and it is likely that there will be a deadly encounter between humans and the cats in the near future."
Mr Brown has been involved in hundreds of tracking cases, including locating lost hunters and hikers, tracking and pursuit of fugitives, and tracking escaped animals.
He is the author of 16 books on tracking and wilderness themes.
His Survival School in New Jersey has trained more than 25,000 people in the arts of tracking.
Mr Brown's report has been sent to the National Assembly. spokeswoman.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Britain's big cats strike back
Britain's big cats strike back
Sightings of pumas and leopards in the British countryside are soaring, as are the number of unexplained attacks. So why does no one take them seriously?
Mark Townsend
Sunday February 9, 2003
The Observer
By the time Mike Cole realised the creature skulking in his garden was not a fox it was too late. The intruder growled and lashed out, slashing open Cole's hand.
He staggered back, bleeding, and watched in astonishment as a lynx the size of a labrador bounded from his Kent lawn.
Feline experts were unanimous that only a big cat could deliver the two gouges that still disfigure the optician's right hand. Police interest was further aroused by a flurry of big cat sightings in the surrounding woodlands near Gravesham.
That was in January last year. Two days later, another attack was reported. Doris Moore, 52, in Aberdeenshire, had disturbed a beast in a stable. It lashed out, leaving her with three puncture wounds.
Since those incidents, recorded sightings of pumas, panthers and other wild beasts have soared to 1,200 compared with 438 in 2001. Every county has now reported sightings, from lynxes and leopards to pumas and ocelots.
Sightings are now running at three a day. In the past week there have been 'suspicious sheep kills' in Wales and Herefordshire, three cattle mauled in Shropshire and big cat sightings in Norfolk and Nottinghamshire.
Professor Alayne Street-Perrot, who is investigating the phenomenon at the University of Swansea, said: 'Either massive numbers of country people are experiencing social psychosis or there is something out there that is worth investigating.'
Last summer, the British Big Cats Society, a national network of 600 members including 30 police officers and academics, revealed it had assembled a dossier supporting the presence of feline predators in the countryside.
Eyewitness accounts, paw prints, livestock kills and hair samples were included. Photographs showed the bodies of 12 cats, including black leopards, puma and lynx found in the UK.
Government officials were, however, apparently unimpressed. A growing body of police officers and experts suspect a big cat cover-up has been ordered by Whitehall.
Terry Hooper, co-ordinator of the Exotic Animal Register, which has compiled hundreds of big cat sightings since the Seventies, said: 'Politically it's become a very hot potato.'
After Cole's attack, Hooper contacted the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, offering to share his data but claims the department did not respond.
For many, the final straw came last month when a dog's throat was ripped and part of its stomach torn out in an attack in Carmarthenshire, Wales. A farmer saw a black 'puma-like' beast soaked in blood standing over the body. Police arriving at the scene claim to have seen a big cat disappearing into the dark.
Fur found in the dog's mouth was taken to the governmental central science laboratories in York for DNA testing. The results - released to the media before the police were informed - found the fur came from a dog or possibly a badger.
'Yet how was it killed in such a horrific manner?' asked Hooper. Danny Bampling, founder of the Big Cats Society, argues another big cat attack has not been disproved.
Government veterinary experts admitted the dog's injuries were consistent with attack by a large predator. However, Defra still claims there is no proof to order a full investigation. 'We take the issue seriously and investigate reports. But so far we have nothing to support a big cat breeding population in this country,' said a spokesman.
The Government could be wishing to avoid harming the fragile rural economy. Ministers are still smarting from criticism over their closure of tracts of countryside during the foot-and-mouth epidemic. More adverse publicity is the last thing it requires as it seeks to lure back tourism.
There is also suspicion that admitting there could be big cats in the wild could trigger a compensation claim from farmers who have lost livestock to wild felines.
It has been eight years since the Government investigated the issue: then, following a six-month inquiry, the 'Beast of Bodmin' was declared a myth.
The Big Cats Society will this spring approach Defra and the Home Office with every scrap of evidence it has collected over the past 18 months. If that fails to convince Ministers to start examining the issue, says Bampling, it could serve as final proof of a conspiracy.
Sightings of big cats have been recorded in Britain as far back as 1860, but it is thought the problem spiralled with laws introduced in 1976 that encouraged owners of dangerous pets to release animals into the wild rather than have them put down.
Now, though, the overriding concern is that it will take a human fatality before the authorities act. 'My biggest fear is that a small child will come across a big cat and try to stroke it,' said Cole.
[email protected]
Britain's big cats strike back
Sightings of pumas and leopards in the British countryside are soaring, as are the number of unexplained attacks. So why does no one take them seriously?
Mark Townsend
Sunday February 9, 2003
The Observer
By the time Mike Cole realised the creature skulking in his garden was not a fox it was too late. The intruder growled and lashed out, slashing open Cole's hand.
He staggered back, bleeding, and watched in astonishment as a lynx the size of a labrador bounded from his Kent lawn.
Feline experts were unanimous that only a big cat could deliver the two gouges that still disfigure the optician's right hand. Police interest was further aroused by a flurry of big cat sightings in the surrounding woodlands near Gravesham.
That was in January last year. Two days later, another attack was reported. Doris Moore, 52, in Aberdeenshire, had disturbed a beast in a stable. It lashed out, leaving her with three puncture wounds.
Since those incidents, recorded sightings of pumas, panthers and other wild beasts have soared to 1,200 compared with 438 in 2001. Every county has now reported sightings, from lynxes and leopards to pumas and ocelots.
Sightings are now running at three a day. In the past week there have been 'suspicious sheep kills' in Wales and Herefordshire, three cattle mauled in Shropshire and big cat sightings in Norfolk and Nottinghamshire.
Professor Alayne Street-Perrot, who is investigating the phenomenon at the University of Swansea, said: 'Either massive numbers of country people are experiencing social psychosis or there is something out there that is worth investigating.'
Last summer, the British Big Cats Society, a national network of 600 members including 30 police officers and academics, revealed it had assembled a dossier supporting the presence of feline predators in the countryside.
Eyewitness accounts, paw prints, livestock kills and hair samples were included. Photographs showed the bodies of 12 cats, including black leopards, puma and lynx found in the UK.
Government officials were, however, apparently unimpressed. A growing body of police officers and experts suspect a big cat cover-up has been ordered by Whitehall.
Terry Hooper, co-ordinator of the Exotic Animal Register, which has compiled hundreds of big cat sightings since the Seventies, said: 'Politically it's become a very hot potato.'
After Cole's attack, Hooper contacted the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, offering to share his data but claims the department did not respond.
For many, the final straw came last month when a dog's throat was ripped and part of its stomach torn out in an attack in Carmarthenshire, Wales. A farmer saw a black 'puma-like' beast soaked in blood standing over the body. Police arriving at the scene claim to have seen a big cat disappearing into the dark.
Fur found in the dog's mouth was taken to the governmental central science laboratories in York for DNA testing. The results - released to the media before the police were informed - found the fur came from a dog or possibly a badger.
'Yet how was it killed in such a horrific manner?' asked Hooper. Danny Bampling, founder of the Big Cats Society, argues another big cat attack has not been disproved.
Government veterinary experts admitted the dog's injuries were consistent with attack by a large predator. However, Defra still claims there is no proof to order a full investigation. 'We take the issue seriously and investigate reports. But so far we have nothing to support a big cat breeding population in this country,' said a spokesman.
The Government could be wishing to avoid harming the fragile rural economy. Ministers are still smarting from criticism over their closure of tracts of countryside during the foot-and-mouth epidemic. More adverse publicity is the last thing it requires as it seeks to lure back tourism.
There is also suspicion that admitting there could be big cats in the wild could trigger a compensation claim from farmers who have lost livestock to wild felines.
It has been eight years since the Government investigated the issue: then, following a six-month inquiry, the 'Beast of Bodmin' was declared a myth.
The Big Cats Society will this spring approach Defra and the Home Office with every scrap of evidence it has collected over the past 18 months. If that fails to convince Ministers to start examining the issue, says Bampling, it could serve as final proof of a conspiracy.
Sightings of big cats have been recorded in Britain as far back as 1860, but it is thought the problem spiralled with laws introduced in 1976 that encouraged owners of dangerous pets to release animals into the wild rather than have them put down.
Now, though, the overriding concern is that it will take a human fatality before the authorities act. 'My biggest fear is that a small child will come across a big cat and try to stroke it,' said Cole.
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I saw one once. It was near Kiama (NSW, Oz) in the dark. It was just sitting at the side of the road like Bagheera did in the Disney movie 'the Jungle Book'. It was really pretty and then I saw it move. It kind of jogged (what do you call a cat moving fast?) alongside the car and then off into the paddocks (Dairy Country out there). People have been seeing them for years around there. Still are actually.
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Anonymous
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Yorkshire Big Cats......
"Long time listener, first time caller........"
Can anybody inform my unschooled mind of any ABC's in the Yorkshire Moors- failing that in the Dales? Have moved to the area recently and have settled down nicely- just need to find me some mythical beast that's living nearby now...
Cheers big ears!
Bling!
"Long time listener, first time caller........"
Can anybody inform my unschooled mind of any ABC's in the Yorkshire Moors- failing that in the Dales? Have moved to the area recently and have settled down nicely- just need to find me some mythical beast that's living nearby now...
Cheers big ears!
Bling!
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Anonymous
Guest
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Anonymous
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Excellent site!Wenna said:
North Yorkshire Forteana!
it's not all James Herriot and Heartbeat up here you know
Nice putty-kitty...
Just be careful out there. As a cat lover myself I've , more than once, been reminded that cats - dispite their undisputed HIGH intelligence; can't tell when you are "just' playing a game. And I have often thought, as I gaze in to the lovely luminous eyes of my 20 yr. old cat companion-"man am I glad you're Not the size of a Great Dane!
Just be careful out there. As a cat lover myself I've , more than once, been reminded that cats - dispite their undisputed HIGH intelligence; can't tell when you are "just' playing a game. And I have often thought, as I gaze in to the lovely luminous eyes of my 20 yr. old cat companion-"man am I glad you're Not the size of a Great Dane!
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Anonymous
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Eburacum45 said:
You're quite right. I'm in Herriot country with Thirsk just down the road from me. As of Yorkshire Forteana, and I know it's off topic, heard an interesting legend about a nearby lake, Gormire, at the foot of the Hambleton Hills. Legand has it that it's bottomless. Although this is no doubt a bag of arse I shall still pop over to have a look Thanks also to Wenna for help
And Conchell, I have two Bengal kittens, which are basically Asian Leopard Cats. When you're looking for mentalist cats then look no further. Am almost to let em loose on the Moors and wait for the reports to flood in, little leopard like beggars that they are.
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Anonymous
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I thought for a moment I'd seen an ABC last summer near Cleeve Hill in Gloucestershire - dark animal with pointed ears, long legs, too large to be a domestic cat.....turned out to be a fox!
Made me realise how easy mis-identification is. Had I seen it only briefly and not stopped to watch it for a few minutes through binoculars I would probably have chalked it up as an ABC - especially if there were subsequent reports in the local papers. Shows how easy a 'flap' can happen.
However a few years back whilst taking my parent's dog, Ginny, for a walk along a disused railway line in the same part of Gloucestershire I saw something the size and colour of a golden retreiver cross the path in front of me. Ginny didn't see it and when we reached the spot I at which it had disappeared into the undergrowth showed no sign of finding a scent. Maybe it was a dog. But if so it was wandering about on its own (there were no houses anywhere near) and disappeared extremely well and very quickly - especially given the tendency of dogs to want to say hello to each other!
Also a few years back, I spent a week on my own in a remote part of the Cairngorms in January. There was plenty of snow on the ground and one morning I discovered the tracks of what appeared to be a large dog. Later I found similar tracks running through a small forestry plantation. There was no sign of human footprints and absolutely no way a domestic animal would have been roaming about on its own up there in the hills in winter. I didn't see any claw marks. It may have been a large fox. It may have been something else....
Made me realise how easy mis-identification is. Had I seen it only briefly and not stopped to watch it for a few minutes through binoculars I would probably have chalked it up as an ABC - especially if there were subsequent reports in the local papers. Shows how easy a 'flap' can happen.
However a few years back whilst taking my parent's dog, Ginny, for a walk along a disused railway line in the same part of Gloucestershire I saw something the size and colour of a golden retreiver cross the path in front of me. Ginny didn't see it and when we reached the spot I at which it had disappeared into the undergrowth showed no sign of finding a scent. Maybe it was a dog. But if so it was wandering about on its own (there were no houses anywhere near) and disappeared extremely well and very quickly - especially given the tendency of dogs to want to say hello to each other!
Also a few years back, I spent a week on my own in a remote part of the Cairngorms in January. There was plenty of snow on the ground and one morning I discovered the tracks of what appeared to be a large dog. Later I found similar tracks running through a small forestry plantation. There was no sign of human footprints and absolutely no way a domestic animal would have been roaming about on its own up there in the hills in winter. I didn't see any claw marks. It may have been a large fox. It may have been something else....
Timble2
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- In a Liminal Zone
Mega-mogs...
I saw one, a grey and black specimen, over two foot at the shoulder, standing by the roadside on Wickham Common, very late at night driving towards Croydon, before Christmas 2001.
Still don't believe it.
I saw one, a grey and black specimen, over two foot at the shoulder, standing by the roadside on Wickham Common, very late at night driving towards Croydon, before Christmas 2001.
Still don't believe it.
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Anonymous
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I'm not sure if I've seen an ABC, but I've seen a wierd cat while walking my dog. It was only 15 yards away and standing still while checking me out in that aloof way that cats do, but hell was it huge. It was black, the same size as my old dog (springer spaniel) in height and build but looked almost exactly like a normal fluffy domestic moggy. The only unusual part of it was its tail, which was very long and brush like.
It was clearly NOT a wild animal, or escaped lynx etc. etc.
Has anyone asked cat breeders if there are attempts to breed/cross breed for size? Some dog breeders deliberately emphasise height and build in the animals they "produce". Could a few cat breeders be attempting the same and causing sightings? (this seems hard to believe, but the cat I saw was mundane except for scale)
BTW I kept a good grip on my dog as A) it would be foolish enough to chase the cat and B) I wouldn't rate her chances if she caught it up. :eek!!!!:
It was clearly NOT a wild animal, or escaped lynx etc. etc.
Has anyone asked cat breeders if there are attempts to breed/cross breed for size? Some dog breeders deliberately emphasise height and build in the animals they "produce". Could a few cat breeders be attempting the same and causing sightings? (this seems hard to believe, but the cat I saw was mundane except for scale)
BTW I kept a good grip on my dog as A) it would be foolish enough to chase the cat and B) I wouldn't rate her chances if she caught it up. :eek!!!!:
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Anonymous
Guest
Well, not an ABC exactly.....
I was at home at my folks place two weeks ago, standing in the yard yapping on the mobile. I saw the cat heading off around the corner of the shed. No, wait! The bleedin' cat is behind me, so what was that thing. I snuck around the shed and sitting under a holly bush was a small cat / big kitten, maybe 6-8 months old. What was odd about it was the colouration. It was a light tannish brown with longer hair than your normal smooth domestic cat. It had a black stripe down the back and black ears, but that was all. It wasn't a tabby and I've never seen a cat this colour. I think it was feral though as it would not let me near but did stay around for a while. Since it looked 'well fed' I suspect that it might be pregnant and likely our tomcat is to blame. I will keep a further eye out for it. There is no history of wildcats in our area, but that is what I though it looked like - a hybrid of a domestic and a wildcat.
I was at home at my folks place two weeks ago, standing in the yard yapping on the mobile. I saw the cat heading off around the corner of the shed. No, wait! The bleedin' cat is behind me, so what was that thing. I snuck around the shed and sitting under a holly bush was a small cat / big kitten, maybe 6-8 months old. What was odd about it was the colouration. It was a light tannish brown with longer hair than your normal smooth domestic cat. It had a black stripe down the back and black ears, but that was all. It wasn't a tabby and I've never seen a cat this colour. I think it was feral though as it would not let me near but did stay around for a while. Since it looked 'well fed' I suspect that it might be pregnant and likely our tomcat is to blame. I will keep a further eye out for it. There is no history of wildcats in our area, but that is what I though it looked like - a hybrid of a domestic and a wildcat.
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Is a big cat on the prowl in Sussex?
I heard about this one yesterday, but due to the confidentiality of calls, I had to wait to see if it hit the media first! I've since heard FOAFtales galore about the Panther of Portslade . . .
Kitty.
http://www.thisisbrightonandhove.co.uk/brighton__hove/news/NEWS2.html
Is big cat on the prowl?
by our news team
Police are investigating after a milkman claimed he saw a huge black panther-like cat on a street in Sussex.
He said he saw the mystery beast loping along Southdown Road in Portslade while he was delivering in the early hours of yesterday morning.
The calls, shortly before 3.30am, prompted police to send out a search team that scoured the area but failed to find the big cat.
However, officers are investigating as there were reports a woman had seen a similar animal in Hove within the past fortnight.
A Sussex Police spokesman said: "The caller said he saw the panther in his headlights and someone else at the scene had seen it too. He also mentioned the lady in Hove.
"We take these things seriously in the sense that the animals could be a danger to themselves or to the public."
Big cat experts are certain felines such as panthers, lynx and leopards are living wild in Sussex.
They believe the creatures have been at large since a government crackdown on keeping wild animals as pets, which has lead to people releasing them into the countryside.
The Panther of Portslade is not the only reported sighting in the county. Big cats have previously been reported seen in Lewes, East Chiltington and Ashurst, near Henfield, as well as on the outskirts of Brighton.
The 700-member British Big Cats Society, which investigates sightings, received nine calls from Sussex last year, out of 1,077 from across Britain.
The previous year, there was only one report from the county.
Society leaders believe for every big cat sighting that gets reported, there are two or three that do not.
Society founder Danny Bamping said: "It is no surprise that big cats are being seen in Sussex, particularly with a lot of rural areas nearby.
"People should not go near any big cats they see because they are potentially dangerous but we do not want them captured.
"Our core aims are to prove and to protect. It is great to have them back in Britain."
Jeremy Adams, curator of the Booth Museum of Natural History in Dyke Road, Brighton, said: "There have been a number of sightings over the years but they have never been verified with a body.
"The nearest were a couple of medium-sized cats that were found near Chichester.
"There have been so many reports, I think there has to be some factual basis but some evidence is required, really."
One theory holds that the big cats have been breeding in the wild since the 1976 Dangerous Animals Act banned people from keeping exotic animals without a licence.
For more details about the British Big Cats Society, visit http://www.britishbigcats.org
I heard about this one yesterday, but due to the confidentiality of calls, I had to wait to see if it hit the media first! I've since heard FOAFtales galore about the Panther of Portslade . . .
Kitty.
http://www.thisisbrightonandhove.co.uk/brighton__hove/news/NEWS2.html
Is big cat on the prowl?
by our news team
Police are investigating after a milkman claimed he saw a huge black panther-like cat on a street in Sussex.
He said he saw the mystery beast loping along Southdown Road in Portslade while he was delivering in the early hours of yesterday morning.
The calls, shortly before 3.30am, prompted police to send out a search team that scoured the area but failed to find the big cat.
However, officers are investigating as there were reports a woman had seen a similar animal in Hove within the past fortnight.
A Sussex Police spokesman said: "The caller said he saw the panther in his headlights and someone else at the scene had seen it too. He also mentioned the lady in Hove.
"We take these things seriously in the sense that the animals could be a danger to themselves or to the public."
Big cat experts are certain felines such as panthers, lynx and leopards are living wild in Sussex.
They believe the creatures have been at large since a government crackdown on keeping wild animals as pets, which has lead to people releasing them into the countryside.
The Panther of Portslade is not the only reported sighting in the county. Big cats have previously been reported seen in Lewes, East Chiltington and Ashurst, near Henfield, as well as on the outskirts of Brighton.
The 700-member British Big Cats Society, which investigates sightings, received nine calls from Sussex last year, out of 1,077 from across Britain.
The previous year, there was only one report from the county.
Society leaders believe for every big cat sighting that gets reported, there are two or three that do not.
Society founder Danny Bamping said: "It is no surprise that big cats are being seen in Sussex, particularly with a lot of rural areas nearby.
"People should not go near any big cats they see because they are potentially dangerous but we do not want them captured.
"Our core aims are to prove and to protect. It is great to have them back in Britain."
Jeremy Adams, curator of the Booth Museum of Natural History in Dyke Road, Brighton, said: "There have been a number of sightings over the years but they have never been verified with a body.
"The nearest were a couple of medium-sized cats that were found near Chichester.
"There have been so many reports, I think there has to be some factual basis but some evidence is required, really."
One theory holds that the big cats have been breeding in the wild since the 1976 Dangerous Animals Act banned people from keeping exotic animals without a licence.
For more details about the British Big Cats Society, visit http://www.britishbigcats.org
