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Blasphemy

That's more like the Madonna we know and love. Well, know anyway. She hasn't lost it after all. Well, she might have lost it, but she hasn't lost it, if you see what I mean.
 
My theologiy's a little rusty these days, but as I recall there's usually a distinction made between "idols" and "representations."

I've met some pretty weird Christians over the years but I've never yet come across a single one who's maintained that Jesus Christ was made of plaster.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
My theologiy's a little rusty these days, but as I recall there's usually a distinction made between "idols" and "representations."

I've met some pretty weird Christians over the years but I've never yet come across a single one who's maintained that Jesus Christ was made of plaster.
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A very fine distinction indeed.

i·dol·a·try (ī-dŏl'ə-trē)
n., pl. -tries.
Worship of idols.
Blind or excessive devotion to something.
[Middle English idolatrie, from Old French, from Latin īdōlolatrīa, from Greek eidōlolatreiā : eidōlon, idol; see idol + latreiā, service.]
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Idolatry definition from answers.com


i·dol (īd'l)

n.

An image used as an object of worship.
A false god.
One that is adored, often blindly or excessively.
Something visible but without substance.
[Middle English, from Old French idole, from Late Latin īdōlum, from Greek eidōlon, phantom, idol, from eidos, form.]
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definition from same source


As one can see from the definition of idolatry - that could be said to cover every religion in the world.

As for the worship of an idol as an image to be worshipped - it is in churches around the world.

Oh - and another one - the various religions all worship male gods and phrophets etc.

Now then, worship of an image of a god in a human image?

Not idol worship?

No?

;)
 
I was raised Roman Catholic, in the old days before Vatican II, and in parochial school we were taught from the First Grade on that the statues in church were "just plaster 'rememberances'....like pictures in a book."

The pastor of the Southern Baptist church in my home town said something which fits here:

"Catholics have statues of Christ all over the place. We have framed prints and paintings of Christ on almost every wall. What in the world is the difference?"
 
OldTimeRadio said:
I was raised Roman Catholic, in the old days before Vatican II, and in parochial school we were taught from the First Grade on that the statues in church were "just plaster 'rememberances'....like pictures in a book."

The pastor of the Southern Baptist church in my home town said something which fits here:

"Catholics have statues of Christ all over the place. We have framed prints and paintings of Christ on almost every wall. What in the world is the difference?"
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Worship of Christ as an idol - Christ is an idol, an image or representation of God - which is in turn a representation or image of a religion.

Instead of God becoming an all permeating, omipresent and omipotent being which is present and affects all things etc - it becomes an old man with a white beard which throws down lightning from clouds.

Like Odin, or Jupiter, or Zeus.

Do not blaspheme! Or the Lord shalt smite thee with his holy wrath!!
 
coldelephant said:
"Instead of God becoming an all permeating, omipresent and omipotent being which is present and affects all things etc - it becomes an old man with a white beard which throws down lightning from clouds. Like Odin, or Jupiter, or Zeus."
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You'll be happy to learn that many of us gave up worshipping Zeus nearly two thousand years ago.

Christians have a wide variety of 'visualizations' of God, with old, fat white-haired, white-bearded white guy attired in a long white robe sitting on a white cloud and juggling a handful of thunderbolts pretty darn far down a very long list.

My personal favorite is the opinion of the saintly old Christian lady interviewed by C. S. Lewis, who claimed that God "looks exactly like a giant bowl of tapioca pudding - without the bowl." (Sounds rather Lovecraftian to me.)

My own visualization - as erroneous as any other, of course - is of a great foggy mass of dark-colored hydrogen-like gas, infinitely larger than the physical universe, stuffed to the gills with flashing "Christmas tree" lights.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
My own visualization - as erroneous as any other, of course - is of a great foggy mass of dark-colored hydrogen-like gas, infinitely larger than the physical universe, stuffed to the gills with flashing "Christmas tree" lights.
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Works for me. ;)
 
Madonna defends mock crucifixion



Concert footage
Madonna has defended a controversial mock crucifixion in her stage show, saying it is part of an appeal to the audience to donate to Aids charities.
"I don't think Jesus would be mad at me and the message I'm trying to send," she told the New York Daily News.

UK and US church groups condemned the stunt after the singer began a 51-date world tour in Los Angeles.

A Church of England statement asked why Madonna felt "the need to promote herself by offending so many people".

Madonna performed the ballad Live To Tell while suspended from a giant mirrored cross on Sunday's opening night.

Images of poverty in the developing world were shown on video screens, while numbers ticked away to represent the 12 million African children orphaned by Aids.

"Jesus taught that we should love thy neighbour," Madonna told the newspaper.

Upset

David Muir of the Evangelical Alliance accused the singer of "blatant insensitivity".

"Madonna's use of Christian imagery is an abuse and it is dangerous," he said.

"She should drop it from the tour and people need to find their own means of expressing their disapproval."

This is not the first time the pop star's concerts have upset the Church.

In 1990, the Pope called for a boycott of the Blond Ambition tour, in which Madonna simulated masturbation during Like A Virgin.

The video for Like A Prayer also brought condemnation from groups claiming it was blasphemous.

The Confessions world tour will reach Britain in July.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5013812.stm
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Writer cleared of goddess charges

Writer cleared of goddess charges

The High Court in the east Indian city of Calcutta has quashed a case against a leading Bengali writer for allegedly defiling a Hindu goddess, Saraswati. Author Sunil Gangopadhyay was quoted in a newspaper saying that he kissed an idol of Saraswati, the goddess of learning, to satisfy his desire.

The novelist says he is relieved the legal proceedings are over and that his comments had been meant as a joke.

Gangopadhyay is Bengal's best known poet and novelist with over 250 books.

The case was brought against him by a former chief of police who said that the writer had hurt his religious sentiments.


Bhibhuti Bhusan Nandy a former chief of border police, said in a complaint to the police that Gangopadhyay's comments had defiled a goddess who is worshipped by Hindus.

Saraswati is regarded as the goddess of knowledge and the arts.

Controversial

Correspondents say Gangopadhyay is no stranger to controversy.

Two years ago there were demonstrations outside a newspaper office in Calcutta after he wrote about the sex life of Indian spiritual leader Ramakrishna Paramhansa.

Last year, the Bangladesh government banned an issue of an Indian magazine which carried a story by Gangopadhyay where he wrote about the sex life of the Prophet Muhammad.

A prolific writer, Gangopadhyay has authored novels, short-stories, poems and travelogues in a 54-year-long writing career.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/s ... 097726.stm

Published: 2006/06/20 09:24:40 GMT

© BBC MMVI
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Did anyone else see Stewart Lee's documentary on blasphemy on Channel Five tonight? Very interesting, some good points being made about freedom of speech, the necessity of reasoned debate and the climate of fear that fundamentalism breeds. I also noticed there was nobody willing to advertise in the commercial break.

Alan Moore was on it, too. Best thing on C5 in ages.
 
Five, I think I dimly remember that one. Didn't it once show a Fellini picture with seventeen ad. breaks and a DOG in the top left throughout? The only time Eight and a Half needed an eight-and-a-half hour slot. I think they had booked it by mistake, thinking it was porn.

Lee & Herring were hated by the BBC - their side of the story - and, when shunted into a terminal Sunday morning slot, took their revenge with a succession of very curious sketches, which pretended to be very innocent but which usually ended with talcum powder being snorted.

Long before he got into his diabolical stride with the Jerry Springer Opera thingy, Stewart Lee would dress up as a rather fetching Jesus and cast doubt on all the dearly-held beliefs of those of us just back in and hot from Sunday School. :shock:
 
Jesus fancy dress kit 'is a crime'

Jesus fancy dress kit 'is a crime'
From Nick Pisa in Rome
Last Updated: 1:19am GMT 02/02/2007



The Vatican acted yesterday to condemn the sale of Jesus Christ fancy dress kits, which can be bought within walking distance of St Peter's Basilica.

The "Jesus Party Wig", available across Italy to wear at the street festivities that precede Lent, costs €12 (£8) and comes complete with a flowing beard and a plastic crown of thorns.

Senior Vatican figures called it "blasphemous" and "shameful". One added that a similar Mohammed outfit would cause widespread outrage. "The vilifying of religion is a crime and this should be investigated by the police," said Bishop Velasio De Paolis, Secretary of the Apostolic Signature, the Vatican's Supreme Court.

advertisement"It's come to the point where the Catholic faith has no defence and it is something to be laughed at, to be made a joke of. The Christian doctrine is exploited but everyone is very careful to be respectful of Islam."

A Milan firm, Widmann, distributes the outfits, which are made in China. It also offers a luxury version, at €24, which adds a long white tunic and a plastic staff. Father Vittorino Grossi, secretary of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Sciences, said: "This is regurgitated paganism and is a shameful insult and blasphemous to millions of believers. It's worse than the Roman graffiti of 1,800 years ago that showed Christ with a donkey's head."

No one at Widmann would comment yesterday. But one stockist, who would not give his name, said: "I don't see what the problem is. To me it's just a novelty wig and beard."

He added: "Listen, I don't want any problems. It's stock that just turns up. It's left over from last year."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml ... esus02.xml
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It's worse than the Roman graffiti of 1,800 years ago that showed Christ with a donkey's head."
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I didn't know b3ta even existed then.
 
HaHaHAHAHOHOHAHA..err...hmmm :lol:

Sorry. That last article did amuse me somewhat.

Im sick to the back teeth of the moaning and whinging about bloody christianity, churches, blasphemy and all that claptrap. :grrr:

'God' forbid anyone to use a bloody building to film outside of. Thats all it is..a building. Bits of metal, stone, concrete, sand and other giggery pokery slapped together.

I agree with what many are saying. You cant take the piss out of christianity (good lord no!) :rolleyes: , but its ok for christianity to take the piss out of a lot of other religions by nicking whatever they fancy for there own and just making up another name for it.
Bunch of Tits.
 
:devil: :furious: :grrr: :headbutt: :monster: :yeay:

Sounds good to me!

Im a bit of a pyromaniac at heart :twisted:
 
witchflame said:
I agree with what many are saying. You cant take the piss out of christianity (good lord no!) :rolleyes: , but its ok for christianity to take the piss out of a lot of other religions by nicking whatever they fancy for there own and just making up another name for it.
Bunch of Tits.
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Why do you think that christianity takes the piss out of other religions? Christianity didn't steal anything, what happened is called intergration and adpotion. Not stealing.
 
rjmrjmrjm said:
witchflame said:
I agree with what many are saying. You cant take the piss out of christianity (good lord no!) :rolleyes: , but its ok for christianity to take the piss out of a lot of other religions by nicking whatever they fancy for there own and just making up another name for it.
Bunch of Tits.
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Why do you think that christianity takes the piss out of other religions? Christianity didn't steal anything, what happened is called intergration and adpotion. Not stealing.
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It doesnt admit that it took these things. Thats why its regarded as stealing.
 
Ramon, again that is a point of contention - with no real way of explaining how much christianity was influenced by existing cultural groupings. But I do not see it as stealing.

I was more annoyed by the idea that Xtianity 'takes the piss' of other religions? How exactly?
 
rjmrjmrjm said:
Ramon, again that is a point of contention - with no real way of explaining how much christianity was influenced by existing cultural groupings. But I do not see it as stealing.

I was more annoyed by the idea that Xtianity 'takes the piss' of other religions? How exactly?
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They stole St Brigid :

Known as Bride in Scotland, Brigandu in France, Ffaid in Wales, and Brigitania in England, the Irish goddess Brigid (usually pronounced Breet) is also known by the names Brighid, Bridget, Brid, and others. Her varying identities reflect her original image as a triple goddess, but with each of her three faces differing in their gifts.


The Brigid first worshipped in ancient times was the daughter of the great Irish god Dagda, the 'Good Father'. She had two sisters who were also named Brigid. Taken together, they were called the 'Three Mothers', 'Three Sisters', or simply the Goddess Brigid.

And many other local gods etc. Of course they dont acknowledge it. To do so would prove that their religion is built on lies.
 
rjmrjmrjm said:
Christianity didn't steal anything, what happened is called intergration and adpotion. Not stealing.
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Indeed. Every Christmas in both the Roman Catholic and Lutheran churches of my German-American home town, the chreche scene gets nearly buried in pine boughs.

And that's because back in the Eighth and Ninth Centuries my ancestors so laid the boughs and branches of their sacred trees as gifts before Jesus Christ.

P. S. But you'll also notice that we didn't give up our trees!
 
ramonmercado said:
It doesnt admit that it took these things. Thats why its regarded as stealing.
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I made an egg curry last night. Curry is not a Scottish dish. Do I admit I stole curry from India? No I don't, I haven't stolen anything, curry is just something which has been integrated into our culture. And I'm quite sure that my egg curry bears about as much resemblance to something made in India as St Brigit does to your triple goddess. ;)
 
min_bannister said:
ramonmercado said:
It doesnt admit that it took these things. Thats why its regarded as stealing.
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I made an egg curry last night. Curry is not a Scottish dish. Do I admit I stole curry from India? No I don't, I haven't stolen anything, curry is just something which has been integrated into our culture. And I'm quite sure that my egg curry bears about as much resemblance to something made in India as St Brigit does to your triple goddess. ;)
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Min

Thats known as sophistry. Do you really think that cooking is the same as religion?

The point is that the RCC never admits that it assimilated the other Gods, Godesses etc. These are noe Saints of the church.
 
Surely blasphemy is about the discomfort it causes the listener.

Perhaps just the fact that the almighty is easily mocked or diminished by logic without a peep by [insert deity of preference] threatens the listener.

What I find wierd is that those people who take offence can look into the night sky, understand the extend of creation (as they see it) and yet think that god gives a damn about a few words. Now that viewpoint truly diminishes god.
 
gncxx said:
Did anyone else see Stewart Lee's documentary on blasphemy on Channel Five tonight? Very interesting, some good points being made about freedom of speech, the necessity of reasoned debate and the climate of fear that fundamentalism breeds. I also noticed there was nobody willing to advertise in the commercial break.

Alan Moore was on it, too. Best thing on C5 in ages.
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It is here.

Either watch the six instalments, or if you scroll right to the bottom you can watch it all in one go.
 
I do not see why you think there is a difference between Religon and curry, surely you, Ramon being an atheist (or at least anti-orginised religion), see religion as any more than a social construct that gives character and individuality to a society in much the same way as cuisine, politcical stances, forms of entertainment - all types of culture.

The RC church may not admit that it assimilated them but that is NOT stealing. The RC church has indeed questioned over its history the truth behind their saints. Look at the defrocking of St Christopher.

You make it sound like the RC church had a systematic and controlled policy of assimilation rather than the hap-hazard way that Xtianity spread. It wasn't as if the church trundled into Ireland and said 'We'll take this as OUR saint'. More likely the Irish converts continued telling the stories of their mythology but gave them Christian overtones - as any story that has travelled through a cultural change would.

Then sometime later a visiting monk who is travelling the world collecting stories of saints in order to create a cataloge visits Ireland and comes across the story of St Brigid. Not knowing the pagan origins of the saint he records it and St Brigid becomes a vatican recognised saint.

You simplify the spread of Christianity far too much Ramon.
 
Ramon, if I kneel at your feet and lay down before you the trinkets and treasures of my previous religion, would you admit that you STOLE these from me?

Most objective onlookers would say that I GAVE them to you, to do with as you pleased.
 
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