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Charlie Manson, the twelve-time loser who has been placed in the pathetic pantheon of serial killers, was actually too chickens*** to do any of the killings himself - he delegated the deeds to his sycophants, therby ensuring that his hands would be clean of his victims' blood should he ever be caught and prosecuted for his crimes ( unfortunately for charlie, he still wound up getting the death penalty for his shenannigans ). People who accuse him of being ''crazy'' are actually well off the mark. Manson isn't crazy -he's cunning and clever, and manages to generate income for himself by trading on his dubious celebrity, selling his crappy drawings and tinfoil & macaroni 'artworks' to dupes dumb enough to pay, and attempting to ensure his legacy as 'wacky madman' by launching into his goofy shtick whenever anyone points a camera at him.
 
Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails would make a good choice in the film role considring he lived in the house that the atrocites occured for a while : he also has a similar look to Manson.
 
...and it would positively reel in the teen goth audience.
 
I just got through watching the old 1972 documentary MANSON that is built from archival footage, and I'm left with three questions, one minor and two major:

1) Minor: What happened to Manson's super-vest, the one that the Manson girls sewed for him and that they attached their hair to when they shaved it off?

2) Major: What happened to the "Family" children? There were numerous children had by the family, some probably Charles Mansons himself - have these kids been sent to foster homes, or did some Family members stay active outside and get custody of the kids? Did any family member ever come up under child molestation (which they admited in the documentary)?

3) Major: Did any Manson family members not get arrested? Did any who didn't stay his followers up to today? And have the Manson Girls maintained their cultlike devotion to him?

It's an amazing documentary, btw; hearing them describe themselves and their worldview is as alien as anything I've seen, yet not that far from various colege radicals (both left & right) that I've known...
 
Charlie's 'Super-Vest' is probably still being kept at the LAPD's vast evidence storage warehouses ( can you imagine how repellent that thing must look/smell after 30-odd years? phew! ). You raise an interesting point regarding the minor children of the 'Family'. They were most likely made wards of the state and sent to live with foster families. One wonders if they have any idea of their origins. Hopefully not. That would be one helluva trip to lay on someone. I was aware of at least a couple of Charlie's girls who still refuse to abandon their savior even after all these years, and who had hooked up with some pasty goth types and formed some sort of quasi Charles Manson appreciation society, with the intention of securing his release from prison and disseminating his 'teachings' to the masses.
 
According to the movie, the vest was filled with symbols meaningful to the cult as well as a detailed accounts of the murders (whatever that means); the hair of the ladies was the last edition noted in the film.

Manson apparently wanted the group to breed early and often, so every woman who could was supposed to bear childen, and it would seem that some of those would be Manson's own. From the look of the oldest kids pictured in the film, they might have been as old as 4 or 5, and according to the people who had left Manson before the murders, the kids were given every drug they had and included in the various orgies, but (thankfully) no more details than that. The last shot of the film was two cult members who were still keeping vigil outside the prison when they finished filming.

I also wasn't aware of the plan after Helter Skelter was supposed to begin - Charlie Manson planned on stealing a bunch of dune buggies, outfitting them with machine guns, wait to the hippy kids to be drawn into the group due to riots in the city, and use the dunebuggies to equip his army to do as they please in the new world.
 
This is odd:

Monday, July 19, 2004
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

Missing woman case a mystery after two years

Police suspect daughter killed her, motivated by beliefs related to Manson family slayings

By BRIAN HAYNES
REVIEW-JOURNAL



Ruby Dorman's last shift ended much like every one before it.

The 78-year-old buffet hostess clocked out at the Flamingo Laughlin, changed her clothes and walked to the parking garage. She always parked on the fifth floor.

Later that day, Dorman's white Honda Accord sat outside her home. Her purse and keys were inside the car, but Dorman was nowhere to be found.

That was two Easters ago. No one has seen her since.

"It's really kind of a mystery. This lady just disappeared off the face of the Earth," said George Sherwood, the Las Vegas homicide detective leading the case.

Police have no trace of Dorman, but they have a suspect: her daughter, 46-year-old Juliann White. Her motive, police said, was a long-simmering hatred of her mother that was fueled by her belief that Dorman had White's aunt killed by the Manson family.

"We suspect Juliann," Sherwood said. "We just can't prove it."

White has denied any involvement in Dorman's disappearance. Attempts to reach her last week were unsuccessful.

The day Dorman disappeared, she clocked out at 2:26 p.m. Police believe she got home about 2:45 p.m., although her commute might have taken a few extra minutes because of the Laughlin River Run.

That morning White, a hairdresser, showed up at Dorman's house after calling Dorman's roommate and asking for directions, police said. Detectives believe mother and daughter drove to an unknown location after Dorman came home.

Dorman's roommate, Jane Rugge, had been asleep when Dorman came home, but she told police she awoke about 4:50 p.m. when White pulled up in Dorman's Honda. White was alone, police said.

Rugge watched White park the car, walk to her Jeep Cherokee and drive away, police said.

Dorman's disappearance started as a missing persons case before being transferred to homicide.

Investigators scoured the Honda for evidence. They searched the depths of Lake Mead. They combed the desert around Laughlin. They hoped to find a body, a clue, something, but each time they found nothing.

"We don't have a body and we don't have a crime scene," Sherwood said. "We do have a kook who tells a different story every time we talk to her."

The reference is to White. The woman has a history of mental illness and has blamed Dorman for everything wrong with her life, Sherwood said.

Fueling her hatred was White's belief that Dorman orchestrated the slaying of a woman she claimed was her aunt, Rosemary LaBianca, he said.

In August 1969, LaBianca and her husband, Leno, were murdered in their home by members of the Manson family.

In a letter to Los Angeles police White wrote that Rosemary LaBianca, her father's sister, wanted to "adopt me as to save me." When an attempt by Dorman's then-husband to adopt White fell through, Dorman "made the decision to get even with Rosemary LaBianca," police said.

White believed Dorman instructed her husband to give the LaBianca address to the Manson family, according to police.


However, no connection to Dorman ever surfaced during the investigation or trial of family members.

Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted the cases and wrote the best-selling book "Helter Skelter," said, "I'm not aware of anyone with the name Ruby Dorman being associated with the family."

Bugliosi put forth the idea that Charles Manson orchestrated the LaBianca and other slayings in an attempt to spark a racial war that he called Helter Skelter.

On the morning after the slayings, White wrote in a letter to Los Angeles police, her mother read the newspaper in Las Vegas and let out a "phony scream" that "held falseness."

"I knew that by tolerating her evil presence I would eventually get each and every detail about the day my aunt was slain," White wrote. "I now perceive the entire story in its egregious entirely."

Detectives have all but ruled out a voluntary disappearance by Dorman. Credit checks since her vanishing have come up empty, and she had always been the model of consistency, never missing work and keeping the same roommate for 18 years, Sherwood said.

During their investigation, police interviewed White twice. The last time detectives talked to her in January in Carson City, White told them they would never find her again, he said.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Jul-19-Mon-2004/news/23966895.html
 
Re: Not Letting This One In Under The RADAR

AndroMan said:
And from Ft's very own, FrightFest (2003) Review

There's this one:

And from Ft's very own, FrightFest (2003) Review

There's this one:
Finally, there’s Charlie’s Family, director Jim Van Bebber’s ultra-graphic and powerful shockumentary detailing the Sharon Tate/LaBianca murders that made the whole of Hollywood paranoid in 1969. Inspired by the plot of Cannibal Holocaust, it’s definitely not for the faint-hearted.



And a short review:

The Manson Family


Cert 18

Peter Bradshaw
Friday July 23, 2004
The Guardian

Jim VanBebber's indie movie about the Manson cult has an extraordinary production history: filming began in 1988 and finished in 2003 after an epic battle for funding. The finished product is a meticulously horrible shocksploitationer, pastiching late-60s underground film-making.

In its way, it impressively intuits the paranoia and bewilderment of the Manson devotees, but once the violence really kicks off, it's just wearisome and gloating. Everything's based on a faux documentary interviewing the principals in jail 25 years on, and there's a creepy modern Mansonesque cult floating about too - all of which promises some sort of creative or critical perspective on the murders. This is not forthcoming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/story/0,,1266891,00.html
 
Charles Manson Unplugged.


That would have been worth a fortune if he'd gotten the electric chair. What a bastard.
 
ignatius said:
Charlie Manson, the twelve-time loser who has been placed in the pathetic pantheon of serial killers, was actually too chickens*** to do any of the killings himself - he delegated the deeds to his sycophants, therby ensuring that his hands would be clean of his victims' blood should he ever be caught and prosecuted for his crimes ...
Gosh! Just think, with the right breaks, he might have become a successful politician, or religious leader.


:rolleyes:
 
Well, as he's due shortly for another hearing to determine his fitness for parole, there's always hope, I suppose. Probably make a damn fine VP for Mr. Bush, too...
 
At his last parole hearing he told the board he felt he'd never commited any crime and that upon release he would be seeking retribution against all he thought responsible for his imprisonment. So unless Charlie has mellowed in however many years it has been I doubt he'll be seeing the free world again any time soon.
 
While I have little doubt California semi-regularly releases people who've done things as bad (or worse?) and served less time than any of these folks, somrthing tells me ain't none of them are ever going to see the light of day. (I'm not suggesting that they should, just noting that being part of a notorious. infamous crime is probably a greater barrier to one's freedom than merely how horrific the act was.)


ASSOCIATED PRESS

9:23 p.m. June 1, 2005

FRONTERA – Former Manson follower Susan Atkins was denied parole for an 11th time Wednesday for her role in the gruesome 1969 murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others during a two-night crime spree that stunned the nation.

"She was given a four-year denial," said state Board of Prison Terms spokesman Tip Kindel, meaning she won't be eligible for another parole hearing for 48 months.

Atkins, now a gray-haired, matronly looking woman of 57, was one of cult leader Charles Manson's ersatz hippie "family" of young killers who burst into a Beverly Hills home 36 years ago this summer and killed Tate and four others. The following night they stabbed to death a wealthy couple in their Los Angeles home.

Prosecutors said they were trying to start a race war Manson believed had been prophesied in the Beatles song "Helter Skelter."

Although Atkins has since embraced Christianity and apologized for the killings, Kindel said the prison board's members believed it was unreasonable to assume she was a suitable parole risk.

"They primarily cited the gravity of the crime, the fact the murders were carried out in an especially cruel and callous manner, that the victims were in no way a threat to them ... ," Kindel said

He said Atkins "listened without reaction and then was escorted out of the room" at the California Institution for Women at Frontera.

At her last hearing 4½ years ago, Atkins told the prison board: "I sinned against God and everything this country stands for."

Authorities said she and other members of Manson's cult burst into Tate's Beverly Hills mansion, where the 26-year-old actress, then 8½ months pregnant, was stabbed to death. Also killed were celebrity hairdresser Jay Sebring, coffee heiress Abigail Folger, filmmaker Voityck Frykowski and Steven Parent, a friend of the Tate estate's caretaker.

The next night, Manson's cult visited Los Angeles' fashionable Los Feliz neighborhood, where they killed wealthy grocer Leno LaBianca and his wife, Rosemary.

Sebring's sister Margaret DiMaria and his nephew Anthony DiMaria attended the hearing, as did Tate's sister, Debra Tate.

Tate's father, Paul Tate, died last month at age 82. In a letter he wrote to the parole board before Atkins' last hearing, he recalled she had snickered and shouted out insults during her trial and laughed as she described his daughter's death.

"If Susan Atkins is released to rejoin her family, where is the justice?" he asked.

© Copyright 2005 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/stat ... lower.html
 
In a letter he wrote to the parole board before Atkins' last hearing, he recalled she had snickered and shouted out insults during her trial and laughed as she described his daughter's death.

"If Susan Atkins is released to rejoin her family, where is the justice?" he asked.

I agree - it'll be a mighty cold day before any of 'the family' gets paroled. And with good reason.
 
After 40 years, amateur detectives and the police, are searching the desert, round the Manson Family's old ranch, in the search for more victims.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/21/usa

Manson Family's gruesome history resurfaces in the desert

· Amateur sleuths believe cult claimed more victims
· Police may reopen inquiry into 1960s crime spree

The Guardian, Ed Pilkington in New York. March 21 2008

The Barker Ranch was the last redoubt of the gaggle of hippies, hitchhikers and lost souls that called itself the Family and followed the twisted beliefs of the convicted pimp, sex offender and would-be musician Charles Manson.

It was to this lonely outpost in the California desert that the group of 26 came after committing the gruesome Sharon Tate and LaBianca murders, and it was here, on August 12 1969, that Manson was arrested hiding under a bathroom sink.

The story of how Manson came to form his sex and drug-fuelled cult, and turned his followers' adulation into blood lust, has become the stuff of criminological legend, marking the low point of the 60s revolution. Members of the Family were prosecuted for nine murders, the most famous victim being Tate, the pregnant wife of the film director Roman Polanski, but rumours have consistently claimed that the true death toll was much higher.

Now a group of interested individuals - including Tate's younger sister, Debra, a local police detective, and forensics experts - have begun searching the desert around the ranch and believe they have found evidence of two, perhaps three, human graves that may be linked to the Manson Family.

The local sheriff's office in Inyo County, about 200 miles from Los Angeles, is expected to decide next week whether to order an official dig of the potential grave sites to follow up on the amateur sleuthing. The sheriff is weighing up the cost and police time that would be involved against the public interest in bringing closure to one of America's most notorious criminal sprees.

The team of investigators made use of technology that was unavailable in 1969 to identify what they believe are sites where human remains are buried. Sergeant Paul Dostie, a local police officer working off-duty, used his sniffer dog that has been trained to detect the smell of bodies, and researchers from a laboratory in Tennessee used ground probing equipment and radar to detect signs of refilled holes in the ground.

Debra Tate, who has dedicated her life since her sister's murder to preventing any of the jailed Family members being released, is insistent that the excavation should take place. She told an LA television station: "If there's a chance that we can send some children home, then we need to do that."

There has long been conjecture that Manson may have been responsible for more murders than those ascribed to him and the four members of the Family who he got to do his bloody bidding. An informant who associated with Manson in jail has said the cult leader once confessed that he had killed 35, though such bragging from a recognised psychopath and fantasist must be treated with a degree of scepticism.

Susan Atkins, one of the Manson devotees who was involved in the murders and like him is serving a life sentence, was also said to have bragged to her cell mate soon after she was arrested that there were "three people out in the desert that they done in".

Tales have swirled around Death Valley, where the Barker ranch is located, that Manson and his main accomplice, Tex Watson, took a woman who was proving to be awkward within the group for a walk away from the building into the desert, returning an hour later without her. Dostie said the first site that received the attention of his sniffer dog fits the description of the direction in which they had been walking.

An abandoned haversack was found at the ranch, leading to speculation that its owner may also be a victim.

In nearby Bishop police have reopened the case of Fillippo Tennerelli, who was thought to have killed himself in a motel room in 1969 but is said to have been a victim of the Family.

Police are taking seriously the findings of the amateur investigators, though they have pointed out that loose ground resembling a burial site can be created by animals, and that even if there are human remains present they could be those of a prospector or rancher from long ago.

"At this point we're looking at whatever shreds of evidence we can gather," police chief Kathleen Sheehan told the Associated Press. "There's no statute of limitations on murder."

...
 
Charles Manson comes up for parole in 2012.

Wouldn't it be neat if this comes the day after the world ends? <g>
 
New Manson Biopic: "Manson Girls"

Lindsay Lohan to kill Sharon Tate!

"E! News has learned exclusively that Lindsay Lohan has signed on to star as Nancy Pitman, once a loyal member of Charles Manson's not-so-merry band, in the movie Manson Girls.

The film's producer, Brad Wyman of Junction Films, confirmed the casting coup.

"Yes, I am doing it with Lindsay," he tells E! News."

http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=fd5557da-a2e8-42cb-ba66-d72662cbb2de

:?
 
Re: New Manson Biopic: "Manson Girls"

IvanVolle said:
...

The film's producer, Brad Wyman of Junction Films, confirmed the casting coup.

"Yes, I am doing it with Lindsay," he tells E! News."

...
That just looks like boasting, to me. :roll:
 
I don't think Nancy Pitman was among the members who committed the murders, was she? But why let the facts get in the way of a sensational headline, eh?
 
gncxx: You are correct. I was attempting humour rather than being sensational.

Nancy Pitman (Brenda) was not present during the murders, but she was deeply involved in the Manson Cult:
"Brenda, as she had come be called in the Family, managed to make quite a few headlines during the Tate-LaBianca trial. She wasn't part of the trial itself, but she was one of the most loyal and visible amongst the girls who sat day and night outside the courthouse in downtown Los Angeles. During this nine-month period she was arrested for trying to pass Charlie a tab of LSD in the LA County Jail's visiting room. Not long after that she was arrested on a forgery charge. Instead of facing her jail time, though, she went underground, literally, living in the city's sewers with fellow Family fugitive Bruce Davis. The two of them, obviously stoned out of their minds at the time, surrendered to police in December 1970."

Sounds like the perfect role for Lohan.

No word on who will be playing Charlie, but if you asked me who should get the role, I would say Luke Perry. Yes, seems like a strange choice, but after seeing him in season four of "Oz" playing a preacher-man, I think he would be perfect to play Manson.

Anyone else got a suggestion?

/While I'm on the subject, I heard a rumour of a Crowley Biopic with Sir Anthony Hopkins playing the lead role? Did I dream this, has anyone else heard of this?
 
IvanVolle said:
gncxx: You are correct. I was attempting humour rather than being sensational.

Ah, right, I thought the headline was part of the original story.

Sounds like the perfect role for Lohan

Well, she's already appeared in one of the year's major turkeys, the Mark Chapman biopic, so why stop there?

No word on who will be playing Charlie, but if you asked me who should get the role, I would say Luke Perry. Yes, seems like a strange choice, but after seeing him in season four of "Oz" playing a preacher-man, I think he would be perfect to play Manson.

Anyone else got a suggestion?

Get Jeremy Davies back, he has the right look and screen persona and he's not too old either.
 
Anthony Hopkins is indeed a great actor and he has Crowley's big, blocky head, but wouldn't a much young actor be necessary to portray the Crowley who joined the Golden Dawn, the Crowley who visited Egypt with Rose Kelly, the mountain-climbing Crowley and the Crowley who (reportedly) twice crossed China on foot?
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Anthony Hopkins is indeed a great actor and he has Crowley's big, blocky head, but wouldn't a much young actor be necessary to portray the Crowley who joined the Golden Dawn, the Crowley who visited Egypt with Rose Kelly, the mountain-climbing Crowley and the Crowley who (reportedly) twice crossed China on foot?
Never assume that reality will prevent Hollywood fiction from performing revisionist inaccuracies! If in doubt, remember Hollywood makes history not follows it. Thus, if studio bosses want anyone to play AC then they'll have anyone they want including Leonardo Di Caprio, Hugh Jackman or even Lindsay Lohan.
 
Well, how about they use all those actors to play A.C. at different stages in his life, ala Dylan Biopic "I'm not here"? I think Lohan could pass for a young version of The Great Beast.
 
Charles Manson was hanging out around the Spahn(?) Ranch with the Family during those dark days. I think they were there a few years. The Ranch was used to shoot various western films .... do we have a list (or does one exist) of films & tv shows (if thee were any) that were filmed while the Family was on the premises? I believe the documentary mention that the Family sometimes would appear as extras...
 
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