Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

flannel

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Adding this under the 'claims' part of the thread title.

Excess deaths in the UK were high in England and negligible in other parts of the UK and many factors are common - see charts here:
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2022/09/14/covid19-so-many-questions-so-few-real-answers/

Dr Kendrick's theorises that it is largely due to vitamin D deficiency in non-whites and England has a higher percentage in the population:
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2022/09/22/saturated-fat/
(scroll down to 'Postscript').

Dr David Grimes has been suggesting vitamin D from the start.

I recommend several thousand units of vitamin D each day, until March.
I recommend this for everyone.
 

PeteS

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Most likely it's a computer generated list of numbers and now you're one if the lucky:roll: ones to be on that mailing list. It's like junk mail.
Yes I realised this when the surgery started using this system. Yesterday I had another for the flu jab and of course you can't reply to these texts. Much like consultations over the phone by a nurse, I'm of the view that this scatter gun approach to patient care is a dangerous path. Unlikely to go away though. I noted with some concern that NHS are now suggesting recruitment of volunteers to man doctors surgeries. Dread to think of the cick ups that will follow.
 
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ramonmercado

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Two convicted

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer released a statement expressing gratitude to law enforcement and prosecutors after two men were convicted Tuesday of plotting to kidnap her in 2020.

A jury returned a guilty verdict in the case of Adam Fox and Barry Croft Jr. Both men were charged with conspiracy to kidnap Whitmer and conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction, while Croft was additionally charged with possession of an unregistered destructive device.

"I want to thank the prosecutors and law enforcement officers for their hard work, and my family, friends, and staff for their support," Whitmer wrote. "Today's verdicts prove that violence and threats have no place in our politics and those who seek to divide us will be held accountable. They will not succeed.

During the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, Whitmer became a lightning rod for right-wing anger and discontent over her strong support of mask mandates and other restrictions. The restrictions were cited as a primary motivation behind the plot to kidnap her, which was foiled by the FBI in October of 2020.

https://www.newsweek.com/gov-whitme...op-her-after-kidnapping-trial-verdict-1736267

Another conviction.

A man who pleaded guilty to conspiring to kidnap Michigan’s governor in 2020 has been sentenced to four years in prison.

Kaleb Franks was rewarded for testifying for prosecutors at two trials. His sentence was longer than the term given to another man who was the first to plead guilty but it still carried a significant benefit.

Franks “made the right decision and came clean. That’s encouraging,” US District Judge Robert Jonker said. ...

Franks, 28, participated in a key step in the conspiracy: a ride on a rainy night to scout Whitmer’s vacation home in northern Michigan. She was not there at the time.

He testified that he had hoped to be killed by police if a kidnapping could be pulled off at some point. The FBI, however, had undercover agents and informants inside the group.

“I was going to be an operator,” Franks said last spring. “I would be one of the people on the front line, so to speak, using my gun.”

Prosecutors said Franks’ cooperation was important because it backed up critical testimony from Ty Garbin, who pleaded guilty a year earlier and was sentenced to just two and a half years in prison. ...

Two men described as leaders of the conspiracy, Adam Fox and Barry Croft Jr, were convicted in August. Two other men, Daniel Harris and Brandon Caserta, were acquitted in April.

“They didn’t just want to kidnap her,” Mr Kessler said in court Thursday. “The plot that Mr Fox and Mr Croft really wanted to do was to put (Whitmer) on trial, kill her and begin a second civil war. What’s really frightening about that is just how prevalent those kind of views have become.”

Meanwhile, 120 miles away in Jackson, Michigan, a jury heard a second day of testimony in the trial of three members of a paramilitary group who were also arrested in 2020.

Joe Morrison, Pete Musico and Paul Bellar are not charged with directly participating in the plot but are accused of assisting Fox and others.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/s...idnap-plot-jailed-for-four-years-1373957.html
 

michael59

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Viral transmission not tested in Pfizer trials​


Pfizer did not know whether Covid vaccine stopped transmission before rollout

https://www.news.com.au/technology/sc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnxlx

https://www.news.com.au/technology/sc

Janine Small Pfizer’s president of international developed markets Testifying before the European Union Parliament, Monday 10th October

Dutch MEP Rob Roos ‘Was the Pfizer Covid vaccine tested on stopping the transmission of the virus before it entered the market? If not, please say it clearly. If yes, are you willing to share the data with this committee? And I really want a straight answer, yes or no, and I’m looking forward to it.”

Ms Small “Regarding the question around, um, did we know about stopping the immunisation before it entered the market? No Therefore Pfizer Covid vaccine was not tested on stopping the transmission of the virus before it entered the market

Ms Small you know, we had to really move at the speed of science to really understand what is taking place in the market, and from that point of view we had to do everything at risk. I think Dr Bourla, even though he’s not here, would turn around and say to you himself, ‘If not us then who?’”

Ms Small said Dr Bourla “actually felt the importance of what was going on in the world, and therefore as a result of that, we actually, um, spent $US2 billion, at risk, of self-funded money from Pfizer, to be able to research, develop and manufacture at risk, to be able to make sure that we were in a position to be able to help with the pandemic”.

Mr Roos scandalous “Millions of people worldwide felt forced to get vaccinated because of the myth that ‘you do it for others’ “Now this turned out to be a cheap lie. This should be exposed.”
 

hunck

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Viral transmission not tested in Pfizer trials​


Pfizer did not know whether Covid vaccine stopped transmission before rollout

https://www.news.com.au/technology/sc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnxlx

https://www.news.com.au/technology/sc
On the face of it this sounds a bit alarming but if you take ‘transmission’ to mean the catching & subsequent possible passing on of the virus to others, we now know for sure that having the vaccine, any of them, doesn’t stop you getting it. They may lessen the effect though.

It’ll be interesting to see how this develops.. I had the Pfizer as a booster myself a while back after the initial Astra Zeneca ones.
 

michael59

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On the face of it this sounds a bit alarming but if you take ‘transmission’ to mean the catching & subsequent possible passing on of the virus to others, we now know for sure that having the vaccine, any of them, doesn’t stop you getting it. They may lessen the effect though.

It’ll be interesting to see how this develops.. I had the Pfizer as a booster myself a while back after the initial Astra Zeneca ones.

Here's why it is so interesting right now...

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/117/903/282/playable/800ede90a614258b.mp4
 

EnolaGaia

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Viral transmission not tested in Pfizer trials​

Pfizer did not know whether Covid vaccine stopped transmission before rollout ...

I'm calling this out for what it is - deceptive bullshit.

The certification of a vaccine is based on immunological data - i.e., the effectiveness of the product in preventing or reducing the effects of the targeted disease on an individual. Whether or not a vaccinated individual is still capable of harboring, carrying, or transmitting the infectious agent(s) is an epidemiological concern.

Such epidemiological aspects of a candidate vaccine are rarely if ever studied during trials. This applies to all vaccines. The main reason is that you can't collect data on transmission among vaccinated versus unvaccinated groups unless you have controlled (i.e., captive) subject pools.

There are at least two Catch-22s involved ... The first is trying to establish a subject pool of vaccinated subjects when the vaccination hasn't yet been approved for use. The second is keeping and monitoring some pool of unvaccinated subjects who would be exposed to vaccinated carriers to check whether the carriers transmitted the disease to them.

Such epidemiological studies during the trial phase are notoriously impractical, and you'd be hard-pressed to find an example of such transmission data being collected prior to evaluation of a vaccine for use in the first place.

To claim this non-evaluation of transmissibility is peculiar to Pfizer (or any of the other vaccine manufacturers) and / or the COVID-19 epidemic conditions already in progress at the time of vaccine development is sheer BS.
 

Spookdaddy

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...To claim this non-evaluation of transmissibility is peculiar to Pfizer (or any of the other vaccine manufacturers) and / or the COVID-19 epidemic conditions already in progress at the time of vaccine development is sheer BS.

I'm glad you said this - because it seemed such blather on first sight that I was genuinely convinced that I must have missed something crucial.
 

michael59

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I'm calling this out for what it is - deceptive bullshit.

The certification of a vaccine is based on immunological data - i.e., the effectiveness of the product in preventing or reducing the effects of the targeted disease on an individual. Whether or not a vaccinated individual is still capable of harboring, carrying, or transmitting the infectious agent(s) is an epidemiological concern.

Such epidemiological aspects of a candidate vaccine are rarely if ever studied during trials. This applies to all vaccines. The main reason is that you can't collect data on transmission among vaccinated versus unvaccinated groups unless you have controlled (i.e., captive) subject pools.

There are at least two Catch-22s involved ... The first is trying to establish a subject pool of vaccinated subjects when the vaccination hasn't yet been approved for use. The second is keeping and monitoring some pool of unvaccinated subjects who would be exposed to vaccinated carriers to check whether the carriers transmitted the disease to them.

Such epidemiological studies during the trial phase are notoriously impractical, and you'd be hard-pressed to find an example of such transmission data being collected prior to evaluation of a vaccine for use in the first place.

To claim this non-evaluation of transmissibility is peculiar to Pfizer (or any of the other vaccine manufacturers) and / or the COVID-19 epidemic conditions already in progress at the time of vaccine development is sheer BS.

To claim that an individual is being selfish and immoral or to quote my Prime Minister "...people who do not get vaccinated against COVID-19 are often racist and misogynistic extremists. That is sheer BS

We knew there has been hundreds if not thousands of covid variants but only the higher risk ones get focused on. No fear mongering needed.

Or...

Just put people back in masks and segregate people again. that worked so well the first time.

By the way, it is still in TRIAL PHASE
 

EnolaGaia

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To claim that an individual is being selfish and immoral or to quote my Prime Minister "...people who do not get vaccinated against COVID-19 are often racist and misogynistic extremists. That is sheer BS

Fair enough, but ... Don't confuse socially-contextualized epidemiological concerns with substantive issues of technical / analytical / pharmaceutical issues governing the extent to which broad epidemiological conclusions can be drawn from individual immunological results.

The most epidemiologically relevant things that may be learned from pharmaceutical trials are the relative amount of residual viral load capacity and (possibly) latent virulence of pathogens within that viral load, as exhibited by vaccinated versus unvaccinated test subjects. That's it; that's all ...

By the way, it is still in TRIAL PHASE

... Precisely the period during which testing and evaluating epidemiological outcomes is effectively intractable, and during which such outcomes cannot be predicted on the basis of the individual trial results.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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To claim that an individual is being selfish and immoral or to quote my Prime Minister "...people who do not get vaccinated against COVID-19 are often racist and misogynistic extremists. That is sheer BS

We knew there has been hundreds if not thousands of covid variants but only the higher risk ones get focused on. No fear mongering needed.

Or...

Just put people back in masks and segregate people again. that worked so well the first time.

I actually can't follow your logic on your many many posts.

So, for this one, can you please respond directly to EG's response before you go on to yet another point? Maybe you could compare and contrast the perceived differences between the covid vaccine and the first trials of polio and smallpox. Bonus points for actual links to credible historical data.

Your short sentences and heavy sarcasm detract from readers' ability to take this seriously.
 

brownmane

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I'm calling this out for what it is - deceptive bullshit.

The certification of a vaccine is based on immunological data - i.e., the effectiveness of the product in preventing or reducing the effects of the targeted disease on an individual. Whether or not a vaccinated individual is still capable of harboring, carrying, or transmitting the infectious agent(s) is an epidemiological concern.

Such epidemiological aspects of a candidate vaccine are rarely if ever studied during trials. This applies to all vaccines. The main reason is that you can't collect data on transmission among vaccinated versus unvaccinated groups unless you have controlled (i.e., captive) subject pools.

There are at least two Catch-22s involved ... The first is trying to establish a subject pool of vaccinated subjects when the vaccination hasn't yet been approved for use. The second is keeping and monitoring some pool of unvaccinated subjects who would be exposed to vaccinated carriers to check whether the carriers transmitted the disease to them.

Such epidemiological studies during the trial phase are notoriously impractical, and you'd be hard-pressed to find an example of such transmission data being collected prior to evaluation of a vaccine for use in the first place.

To claim this non-evaluation of transmissibility is peculiar to Pfizer (or any of the other vaccine manufacturers) and / or the COVID-19 epidemic conditions already in progress at the time of vaccine development is sheer BS.
And this is why I commented that the way the idea of transmission was used to make it look like Pfizer was in some way negligent was disappointing. It is sad to see how media can make a headline that causes alarm in people for no reason.

The vaccine can prevent severe illness in some people. I can take the vaccine with the knowledge that I may have a lesser case or no case of covid. If I have no case of covid, then clearly there is no transmission. At no point did I ever misunderstand that it prevented transmission.

The possibility of transmission despite being vaccinated is why, after almost 3 years, I still have to wear a mask at work.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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And this is why I commented that the way the idea of transmission was used to make it look like Pfizer was in some way negligent was disappointing. It is sad to see how media can make a headline that causes alarm in people for no reason.

The vaccine can prevent severe illness in some people. I can take the vaccine with the knowledge that I may have a lesser case or no case of covid. If I have no case of covid, then clearly there is no transmission. At no point did I ever misunderstand that it prevented transmission.

The possibility of transmission despite being vaccinated is why, after almost 3 years, I still have to wear a mask at work.

You expressed this much more clearly than I could have. I agree with all your points.
However, people with different starting assumptions will never agree.
 

brownmane

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Maybe you could compare and contrast the perceived differences between the covid vaccine and the first trials of polio and smallpox.
A couple of months ago, I watched a 1980's CBC (Canada) documentary about the discovery of the polio vaccine.

Salk who discovered the vaccine, used his own family as the trial since the world was so desperate for a cure or prevention to a disease which affected so many people. Once news came out that there was a possible vaccine, parents lined up to get their children vaccinated. They made this decision with, most likely, less information than we've gotten on the covid vaccine.

And before anyone pipe up about those who contracted polio from the live virus vaccine, Salk had developed the vaccine with inactivated virus. When he discovered that there were people contracting the virus from the vaccine, he found that a lab producing the vaccine had been using live virus. This was corrected.

This is off topic for the thread, but I just wanted to at least show the difference in how people in different circumstances have reacted to vaccines in the past.

There are generations (mine included) who have no personal experience with dealing with a rampant and deadly disease, because of mass vaccination. I do believe that this is a big part of why people believe the manipulative conspiracy theorists. Our generations are very privileged to forget what these diseases really did.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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A couple of months ago, I watched a 1980's CBC (Canada) documentary about the discovery of the polio vaccine.

Salk who discovered the vaccine, used his own family as the trial since the world was so desperate for a cure or prevention to a disease which affected so many people. Once news came out that there was a possible vaccine, parents lined up to get their children vaccinated. They made this decision with, most likely, less information than we've gotten on the covid vaccine.

And before anyone pipe up about those who contracted polio from the live virus vaccine, Salk had developed the vaccine with inactivated virus. When he discovered that there were people contracting the virus from the vaccine, he found that a lab producing the vaccine had been using live virus. This was corrected.

This is off topic for the thread, but I just wanted to at least show the difference in how people in different circumstances have reacted to vaccines in the past.

There are generations (mine included) who have no personal experience with dealing with a rampant and deadly disease, because of mass vaccination. I do believe that this is a big part of why people believe the manipulative conspiracy theorists. Our generations are very privileged to forget what these diseases really did.

Again, you expressed this much more clearly than I could have. :) I am just going to make you my spokesperson and write "What brownmane stated."
 

kesavaross

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There are at least two Catch-22s involved ... The first is trying to establish a subject pool of vaccinated subjects when the vaccination hasn't yet been approved for use. The second is keeping and monitoring some pool of unvaccinated subjects who would be exposed to vaccinated carriers to check whether the carriers transmitted the disease to them.
Surely such experiments are done with animals over a long period of time?

With the covid 'vaccine' the experiments are being done on people. Or am I missing the point entirely.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Surely such experiments are done with animals over a long period of time?

With the covid 'vaccine' the experiments are being done on people. Or am I missing the point entirely.

Your assumption base is very different than mine. Most vaccines developed and employed for urgent public health needs (smallpox, polio, covid) did not have long-term animal trials first, because of the overwhelming need for deployment. As newer versions of a vaccine arise, animal trials can be used, because the urgency is reduced through the pre-existing human vaccinations.

Why do you think such experiments are (always or usually) done with animals first?
 

EnolaGaia

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Surely such experiments are done with animals over a long period of time?
With the covid 'vaccine' the experiments are being done on people. Or am I missing the point entirely.

Read Reuters' new 'Fact Check' article about transmissibility testing and the development / roll-out of the COVID-19 vaccines to date:

Fact Check-Preventing transmission never required for COVID vaccines’ initial approval; Pfizer vax did reduce transmission of early variants
https://www.reuters.com/article/fac...-transmission-of-early-variants-idUSL1N31F20E
 

kesavaross

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Why do you think such experiments are (always or usually) done with animals first?
I have always assumed all vaccines were rigorously tested using animals for potential side effects first, as well as whether it works or not, unless it's developed using known and previously tested 'ingredients'.

I had a friend years ago who was a human guinea pig for a new vaccine and before the trials started he was told about the previous trials with mice and, I think, pigs, so safety or problems with side effects wasn't an issue. (He was paid what was to me at the time a small fortune.)
 

kesavaross

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Read Reuters' new 'Fact Check' article about transmissibility testing and the development / roll-out of the COVID-19 vaccines to date:


https://www.reuters.com/article/fac...-transmission-of-early-variants-idUSL1N31F20E
Personally I would never trust any 'fact check' from any news media source simply because they often seem at odds with what other experts in the same field say who don't have any vested interests. People who all read from the same hymn book usually only have the same view point.

I am not vaccinated and I think I've only had covid once. I assume it was covid and although it was very mild I suffered and still am suffering to a degree the classic symptoms of long covid and it's on the basis of those symptoms I assume I had covid. Of the relatively few people I know who have not been vaccinated, I'm the only one who's had covid. Yet I know of vaccinated people who are on or who have had covid 2 or 3 times and one person where I live in a tower block is on his 4th dose. He'll still be going for his 5th shot though.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Personally I would never trust any 'fact check' from any news media source simply because they often seem at odds with what other experts in the same field say who don't have any vested interests. People who all read from the same hymn book usually only have the same view point.

I am not vaccinated and I think I've only had covid once. I assume it was covid and although it was very mild I suffered and still am suffering to a degree the classic symptoms of long covid and it's on the basis of those symptoms I assume I had covid. Of the relatively few people I know who have not been vaccinated, I'm the only one who's had covid. Yet I know of vaccinated people who are on or who have had covid 2 or 3 times and one person where I live in a tower block is on his 4th dose. He'll still be going for his 5th shot though.

Your individual experiences and observations are likely true and accurate. I completely accept them. However, they are at odds with the millions of datapoints of epidemiological evidence from different countries on at least 2 different continents over time. You do not seem to have a basic understanding of public health concerns. What you or I or any other individual experiences should not dictate public health decisions. To argue otherwise is to project an extremely limited point of view which many others, including me, will dismiss as willfully ill-informed at best.
 

RaM

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Both my wife and I have had 4 jabs the last about 4 weeks back she is very carful masks washing hands and so on. 2 weeks ago she tested positive and still is I on the other hand have tested negative through out, she has been fine at worst like a mild cold next test Monday should be clear hopefully.
 

brownmane

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I had a friend years ago who was a human guinea pig for a new vaccine and before the trials started he was told about the previous trials with mice and, I think, pigs, so safety or problems with side effects wasn't an issue. (He was paid what was to me at the time a small fortune.)
This would be a blatant lie and an unethical statement if the scientists working with the study had said that to any person agreeing to participate in a human trial. That is what the human trials are for - to see if there are any side effects or negative effects of the drug on trial.

People have died in human studies of drugs.
 

brownmane

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Personally I would never trust any 'fact check' from any news media source simply because they often seem at odds with what other experts in the same field say who don't have any vested interests.
How is it that you know that even the "other experts" have no vested interests?
People who all read from the same hymn book usually only have the same view point.
Well said.:)
 

kesavaross

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This would be a blatant lie and an unethical statement if the scientists working with the study had said that to any person agreeing to participate in a human trial. That is what the human trials are for - to see if there are any side effects or negative effects of the drug on trial.

People have died in human studies of drugs.
With all respect I never said that the scientists themselves told him, etc.

The full story. We were both 3rd year toolmaking apprentices in the same engineering factory. We shared a bedsit as apprentice wages were abysmal and any extra chance to earn money was taken. This was around 1975. We were both 18. We both went to the same day release technical college. He saw a poster in the cafeteria asking for volunteers. He phones up or writes off and gets sent a whole wad of paperwork and pamphlets/booklet. We both read them and I think 'not for me'. He sends off paperwork. He goes for an interview in London somewhere. He has a full medical and evaluation. He then goes to a meeting with others where everything is explained in detail and is given a substantial A4 folder with the clinical history of the vaccine so far. In that A4 folder which I read it and amongst the other info it gave details of the animal testing. Down the pub that evening, a rare treat for either of us, as he'd been paid expenses having dodged paying the train/tube fares, and an attendance allowance, I can remember him saying not to worry as the vaccine had already passed all the animal trials which they told him about at the meeting and he wouldn't know if he was to be given the vaccine or a placebo.

There's more after that but it's not relevant.
 

kesavaross

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How is it that you know that even the "other experts" have no vested interests?
Because generally at some point they say their 'career' history, where their money comes from or not, affiliations, etc, unlike Fauci, etc, and also because a lot of them have had their careers completely ruined by speaking out.

I watched a talk last by three Irish doctors. One had been struck off and the other two were on their way in the same direction. All for speaking out about the farce that is covid 19 and how to treat patients. They went against the directives given by those in power.

I can post a link if required.
 
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kesavaross

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Your individual experiences and observations are likely true and accurate. I completely accept them. However, they are at odds with the millions of datapoints of epidemiological evidence from different countries on at least 2 different continents over time. You do not seem to have a basic understanding of public health concerns. What you or I or any other individual experiences should not dictate public health decisions. To argue otherwise is to project an extremely limited point of view which many others, including me, will dismiss as willfully ill-informed at best.
I'm sorry if I gave the impression that in some way my experiences should dictate public health and yes, you're correct that I don't have a clue about public health concerns which are decided for them by the media.

I don't really argue any point as such. I let people who know what they're are on about do that. Those people seem to be at complete odds with the data from various mainstream organisations and governmental experts.

There have been countless calls for a full open public debate from numerous experts in their field and from the numerous groups formed by those experts and others both on the alternative media and by open letters to newspapers, tv companies, the media at large, and governments and politicians and all have been ignored and never been replied to or even acknowledged.

Do I trust those who want a full open debate on tv or those who refuse to do so and won't even acknowledge that is has even been asked for? I am not so bright academically and cannot debate anything very well but it's a simple question that speaks reams. I suggest that is the data and advise that comes via the governments and media that is extremely a limited point of view because it is only one side of the story that has only even been stated by those who are totally in pre and prior agreement with each other.
 
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Mythopoeika

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This would be a blatant lie and an unethical statement if the scientists working with the study had said that to any person agreeing to participate in a human trial. That is what the human trials are for - to see if there are any side effects or negative effects of the drug on trial.

People have died in human studies of drugs.
My own grandfather was given an experimental drug for diabetes back in the 60s (I was a child at the time, so don't know what it was).
He had a stroke and died soon after. As a family, we just had enough time to see him before he died.
AFAIK, there was no apology from the drug company.
 
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