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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

AlienView said:
WHY ???

We understand that China does not have an open and free press
- But China does business with the rest of the World and their manufacturing
industries compete with the rest of the World, and if anything were doing a
good job in Worldwide markets.

Why would China deliberately suppress information that could have stopped
a World wide pandemic that has also cost them much in lives and economic
profit?

Did China really think that it could contain the virus by itself?

Otherwise what was the motivation for not letting the rest of the World know
what might happen?

OK fellow conspiracy nuts, and anyone else, what was China's motivation
in keeping the threat quiet and allowing the situation to fester?
Click to expand...
It's possible that they are basically embarrassed and won't admit to it or at least admit the extend of the their responsibility. Recall Stalin originally stated USSR WW2 deaths at ~ (10 to 12) million. A ludicrous statement that was said to basically play down the fact that the european open part of the USSR sustained (2 to 3) times that quantity of deaths. Just a thought?
 
Jim said:
It's possible that they are basically embarrassed and won't admit to it or at least admit the extend of the their responsibility. Recall Stalin originally stated USSR WW2 deaths at ~ (10 to 12) million. A ludicrous statement that was said to basically play down the fact that the european open part of the USSR sustained (2 to 3) times that quantity of deaths. Just a thought?
Click to expand...
What some main stream news outlets in the US are now reporting is before the full scale outbreak of Covid 19 China had upped significantly its manufacture of face masks and had decreased by 45% its export of ventilators - Implication being that China had a profit motive in keeping the potential for worldwide pandemic under wraps.

I'm skeptical - but facts don't lie.
 
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Vardoger said:
They knew about it, already in 2003. The TV show Dead Zone, episode Plague mentions Corona virus on 02:28 in this video. ...
Click to expand...

"Coronavirus" is a category or class of viruses that have been known since the 1930s.
Human coronaviruses have been known since the 1960s.
Two earlier epidemic viruses (SARS and MERS) are coronaviruses.
COVID-19 is not *the* coronavirus, but rather the most recently identified human coronavirus.
 
AlienView said:
What some main stream news outlets in the US are now reporting is before the full scale outbreak of Covid 19 China had upped significantly its manufacture of face masks and had decreased by 45% its export of ventilators - Implication being that China had a profit motive in keeping the potential for worldwide pandemic under wraps.

I'm skeptical - but facts don't lie.
Click to expand...

It would have been in it's own flu season so increasing production of PPE is sensible. It's possible they were already dealing with Covid-19. So wanting to keep vital equipment again seems sensible. Just look at the west robbing each other's supplies to see how desperate things got.

I'm sure the ventilator/PPE Chinese market makes money but I doubt it would have been more than crippling their economy destroying trade relations. So I cant see withholding information as being done for economical reasons.

I think China tried to downplay and hide the outbreak as they knew everyone would point the finger which the world has done anyway. This suggests weak leadership. A strong leadership would have said, "we are in the shit we need to tell the rest of the world", which they sort of did but way too late.

I dont see conspiracies. I see inept leadership which has been mirrored in the West. This is pretty much the story of history.
 
EnolaGaia said:
"Coronavirus" is a category or class of viruses that have been known since the 1930s.
Human coronaviruses have been known since the 1960s.
Two earlier epidemic viruses (SARS and MERS) are coronaviruses.
COVID-19 is not *the* coronavirus, but rather the most recently identified human coronavirus.
Click to expand...

And the SARS outbreak started in 2002 - about 8 months before the episode aired. Worldwide, media would be talking about a contagious killer coronavirus. Reasonable to assume the episode's writers took it as inspiration.
 
I may have posted an earlier version of this - I think it is worth posting again, even
though much of modern medicine and the drug cartels are vehemently opposed
to this modality of treatment - Yet I have read of its use successfully on Covid 19.
Your local news will probably only mention it, if at all, to dispute it.

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, May 4, 2020

Vitamin C and Coronavirus: Not a Vaccine; Just a Humble Cure
Commentary by William F. Simmons and Robert G. Smith, PhD

"(OMNS May 4, 2020) During the pneumonia epidemic in North Carolina in the 1940's, after American soldiers returned from the war in Europe, a small-town physician used an anti-infective protocol of intravenous vitamin C to cure 42 cases of viral pneumonia. [1] During the same period, the physician used a similar treatment to cure 60 cases of viral poliomyelitis. All patients were clinically well within 72 hours. [2] This seemingly incredible event occurred before there was a polio vaccine. The doctor was Frederick Robert Klenner of Reidsville, North Carolina.

During that same time interval, Klenner used a similar method to cure an assortment of other maladies, including herpes zoster, herpes simplex, chicken pox, influenza, virus encephalitis, measles, and mumps. Over the course of his practice, Klenner discovered that vitamin C was not only anti-viral, but anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-toxin as well. He also discovered that, in general, the higher the dose, the more effective the therapy was against the disease, which resulted in shortening the duration of the anti-infective vitamin C treatment. In his published papers, Klenner found that intravenous injection was necessary to attain adequately high blood levels of vitamin C..........."

See whole article here:
http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n28.shtml
Now if you are skeptical remember this:
You can not possibly expect mainstream medicine and the drug cartels that own
mainstream medicine to accept a modality of treatment that allows little profit
to be made - Especially when billions, if not trillions, of dollars can be made on
chemical treatments and vaccines when developed! - Think about it!
 
AlienView said:
I may have posted an earlier version of this - I think it is worth posting again, even
though much of modern medicine and the drug cartels are vehemently opposed
to this modality of treatment - Yet I have read of its use successfully on Covid 19.
Your local news will probably only mention it, if at all, to dispute it.

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, May 4, 2020

Vitamin C and Coronavirus: Not a Vaccine; Just a Humble Cure
Commentary by William F. Simmons and Robert G. Smith, PhD

"(OMNS May 4, 2020) During the pneumonia epidemic in North Carolina in the 1940's, after American soldiers returned from the war in Europe, a small-town physician used an anti-infective protocol of intravenous vitamin C to cure 42 cases of viral pneumonia. [1] During the same period, the physician used a similar treatment to cure 60 cases of viral poliomyelitis. All patients were clinically well within 72 hours. [2] This seemingly incredible event occurred before there was a polio vaccine. The doctor was Frederick Robert Klenner of Reidsville, North Carolina.

During that same time interval, Klenner used a similar method to cure an assortment of other maladies, including herpes zoster, herpes simplex, chicken pox, influenza, virus encephalitis, measles, and mumps. Over the course of his practice, Klenner discovered that vitamin C was not only anti-viral, but anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-toxin as well. He also discovered that, in general, the higher the dose, the more effective the therapy was against the disease, which resulted in shortening the duration of the anti-infective vitamin C treatment. In his published papers, Klenner found that intravenous injection was necessary to attain adequately high blood levels of vitamin C..........."

See whole article here:
http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n28.shtml
Now if you are skeptical remember this:
You can not possibly expect mainstream medicine and the drug cartels that own
mainstream medicine to accept a modality of treatment that allows little profit
to be made - Especially when billions, if not trillions, of dollars can be made on
chemical treatments and vaccines when developed! - Think about it!
Click to expand...

I have thought about it and the above is quackery.

First off you can ruin your kidneys by ingesting too much Vit C in a condition called oxalate nephropathy. Also you can get diarrhea, ( common), and kidney stones too.

All these people living to ripe old ages in the Mediterranean do you see they megadosing Vits? Nope just healthy diets.

There has been some research that Vit C might be effective in the treatment of pneumonia particularly in combination with other things however there isn't a consensus yet as it needs more trials.

Also people who are poor and sick, or returning from fighting in a war, are going to be lacking fundemental nutrition so if you improve that your going to improve survival. So bringing up low levels of Vit C to normal levels would be part of that.

Klenner was a quack and I can't find his research in anything reputable.
 
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Naughty_Felid said:
I have thought about it and the above is quackery.
Click to expand...
Quackery ? - Check out this recent research:

From Physicians Weekly:

High-Dose IV Vitamin C on ARDS by COVID-19: A Possible Low-Cost Ally With a Wide Margin of Safety
Posted by PWeekly | Apr 29, 2020

The following is reprinted, at the request of the author, from an article originally posted in Spanish to the IntraMed website.

Intravenous vitamin C has been the object of numerous studies regarding its function as adjuvant therapy on critical
patients’ care, included ARDS of diverse etiology. In the context of a coronavirus pandemic, with an elevated
morbimortality and pressure over the sanitary system, it is of vital importance to use every available resource to
improve patients’ outcomes in an accessible and safe way. In this article, I briefly analyze the evidence around the
use of vitamin C in the critical patient and its potential benefits on admission time, intubation time and mortality on
patients affected by ARDS.

"Evidence shows that the therapeutic effects take place with a minimum dose of 50mg/k/day and a maximum of 200mg/k/day, divided into four doses given every 6 hours. The largest randomized study performed so far, CITRIS-ALI ₍₆₎, found that vitamin C supplementation failed to modify biomarkers such as thrombomodulin, C reactive protein and organ failure scores (SOFA), but successfully reduced mortality by 16.5%, respiratory assistance requirements by 2.5 days, ICU stay by 3.2 days and hospital admission by 6.7 days, compared to placebo. This is more relevant than never in view of the worldwide shortages in beds and equipment. Some authors suggest that the reason why biomarkers weren’t modified was that the samples were taken at 96 hours, time when more severely ill patients had died and were excluded from the study (survivorship bias)₍₇₎₍₈₎. Two meta-analyses that included 685 and 147 critical patients concluded that intravenous vitamin C showed no adverse reactions, reduced the need for fluids and vasopressor support and reduced intubation time up to 25%₍₉₎₍₁₀₎..........."

See whole article here:
https://www.physiciansweekly.com/high-dose-iv-vitamin-c-on-ards-by-covid-19-a-possible-lo
 
Last edited:
AlienView said:
Quackery ? - Check out this recent research:

From Physicians Weekly:

High-Dose IV Vitamin C on ARDS by COVID-19: A Possible Low-Cost Ally With a Wide Margin of Safety
Posted by PWeekly | Apr 29, 2020

The following is reprinted, at the request of the author, from an article originally posted in Spanish to the IntraMed website.

Intravenous vitamin C has been the object of numerous studies regarding its function as adjuvant therapy on critical
patients’ care, included ARDS of diverse etiology. In the context of a coronavirus pandemic, with an elevated
morbimortality and pressure over the sanitary system, it is of vital importance to use every available resource to
improve patients’ outcomes in an accessible and safe way. In this article, I briefly analyze the evidence around the
use of vitamin C in the critical patient and its potential benefits on admission time, intubation time and mortality on
patients affected by ARDS.

"Evidence shows that the therapeutic effects take place with a minimum dose of 50mg/k/day and a maximum of 200mg/k/day, divided into four doses given every 6 hours. The largest randomized study performed so far, CITRIS-ALI ₍₆₎, found that vitamin C supplementation failed to modify biomarkers such as thrombomodulin, C reactive protein and organ failure scores (SOFA), but successfully reduced mortality by 16.5%, respiratory assistance requirements by 2.5 days, ICU stay by 3.2 days and hospital admission by 6.7 days, compared to placebo. This is more relevant than never in view of the worldwide shortages in beds and equipment. Some authors suggest that the reason why biomarkers weren’t modified was that the samples were taken at 96 hours, time when more severely ill patients had died and were excluded from the study (survivorship bias)₍₇₎₍₈₎. Two meta-analyses that included 685 and 147 critical patients concluded that intravenous vitamin C showed no adverse reactions, reduced the need for fluids and vasopressor support and reduced intubation time up to 25%₍₉₎₍₁₀₎..........."

See whole article here:
https://www.physiciansweekly.com/high-dose-iv-vitamin-c-on-ards-by-covid-19-a-possible-lo
Click to expand...

If you read the article it says "the evidence around vitamin c is scarce but promising" which is pretty much what I've suggested if you actually read my post.

There is some evidence for it's use in combination with thiamine and hydrocortisone for very specific conditions carried out by doctors in hospitals. However there's not been enough research done yet and it remains a controversial treatment option.

I said Klenner was a complete quack which he was. Your first article is an orthomolecular medicine article which supports megadosing. Megadosing is known to be dangerous and orthomolecular medicine Is essentially an alternative medicine. To get an example of how megadosing can go wrong Google Matthias Rath HIV trials. So I stand by what I said the first article was quackary.

Your pushing half baked ideas as you take everything for face value. You are unable to apply critical thinking as you believe everything is part of a conspiracy.

The good thing is that you went off an did a bit of research when I challenged you. That's a start I guess.
 
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maximus otter said:
Re the "nitwit dies after drinking chloroquine/fishtank cleaner because Trump" death story:

"In death, he has become famous as a cautionary tale about the risks of mindlessly following the armchair medical advice President Donald Trump has dispensed from the White House podium.

But friends of 68-year-old Gary Lenius, the Arizona man who passed away last month from drinking a fish tank cleaner that contained an ingredient, chloroquine phosphate, that Trump had touted as a potential coronavirus cure, say they are still struggling to understand what drove an engineer with an extensive science background to do something so wildly out of character.

These people describe Lenius as intelligent and levelheaded, not prone to the sort of reckless and impulsive behavior he reportedly engaged in on the day he died. This account is based on interviews with three people who knew Lenius well and paints a picture of a troubled marriage characterized by Wanda Lenius's explosive anger.

Trump critics and the news media have held up his death as a warning against following the president's amateur medical advice, with some claiming that Trump is "lethal," has "blood on his hands," and should be tried at the Hague for "crimes against humanity."

Those who know Gary Lenius, however, say they are troubled by how he has been portrayed in the media and can't imagine him agreeing to drink an aquarium treatment. "I would like people to know that Gary was not the fool that some of the media stories and comments are depicting him to be," said the same friend. "I really don't think Gary knew what he was taking."

Lenius spent over three decades as a senior engineer at John Deere in Waterloo, Iowa. He met Wanda in 2000.

A woman who identified herself as a friend of Wanda Lenius's, however, emailed the Free Beacon to say that Wanda Lenius was "not well" and called the information contained in the report "old and inaccurate."

Those who knew the couple said they sensed tension in the marriage.

"Wanda would constantly berate Gary in public," said a source who asked that all identifying information be withheld. "Everyone was embarrassed for him, but he outwardly did not seem to care much."

"In our opinion, their marriage was seen outwardly to be as one-sided as a marriage possibly could be: Gary worshiped Wanda," this person said, adding that his wife "would routinely call him a ‘doofus'" and humiliate him in public.

Lenius's friend recalled Wanda Lenius destroying her husband's aircraft model collection after he returned home late for a meal.

"These planes take many dozens and sometimes hundreds of hours to complete," said the friend. "Gary did not get angry, he simply junked the planes that were not repairable and fixed the rest. That is the Gary I knew, he would never get upset, he just accepted what happened and carried on."

In another recent instance, the same friend said Wanda Lenius broke her husband's laptop screen, allegedly because she was angry he had updated the Windows software on her computer.

"Gary just ordered up a new LCD screen from Dell and took it apart and replaced the screen himself," said the friend. "He knew nothing about repairing laptops, but he was a smart guy, he learned how."

The couple met while working at John Deere in Waterloo in 2000

Seven months after their wedding, the Waterloo Police Department responded to a domestic incident at their home. The couple had gotten into an argument "concerning counseling and a possible divorce" during which Wanda allegedly hit her husband in the chest and swung a mounted birdhouse at him...

In 2005, after working full time at John Deere for four years, Wanda Lenius went on long-term disability after developing debilitating mental and physical health problems from gender and age discrimination she faced at the company, according to court records in a 2012 lawsuit she filed against John Deere.

Wanda Lenius told the court that she faced "gender-based harassment" and age discrimination, including getting passed over for promotions because she was a woman in her 40s. The litigation was similar to a lawsuit she had filed in 1997 against her former employer, the Cedar Valley Medical Clinic, although in that case, she said the company discriminated against her because she was viewed as a "young, single girl."

Asked if she and Lenius had a conversation about taking the chloroquine at that time, she told the Free Beacon: "No. I mean, it was really kind of a spur of the moment thing," adding that the couple ingested "one teaspoon and some soda" each—at least four times the lethal limit.

Those who knew Gary said he was in "good spirits" and seemed "normal" in the days before he died. One source said that Gary had recently started undergoing chelation therapy, a medical procedure that is typically used to treat people who have abnormally high levels of heavy metals in their blood, such as lead, mercury, or arsenic..."

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/...leaner-remembered-as-intelligent-levelheaded/

maximus otter
Click to expand...

It was inevitable after Trump made his muddled statement on chloroquine that the American press would be desperately scrabbling to find any death that had a hint of cleaning fluid having been ingested.

This one certainly sounds like there is more to it. Ironic that the light they have shone on this death may unintentionally highlight something that may have gone undetected.
 
Naughty_Felid said:
Your pushing half baked ideas as you take everything for face value. You are unable to apply critical thinking as you believe everything is part of a conspiracy.

The good thing is that you went off an did a bit of research when I challenged you. That's a start I guess.
Click to expand...
I'm not pushing anything - I have no profit motive.

I will push this idea though - When the entire world's medical establishment can not
come up with a cure for a virus that may be creating a situation so serious that it
threatens all of civilization - Maybe we should look at any and all possibilities
to stop it - Including all alternative forms of treatment even if they are considered
quackery by some - Did some one once say 'desperate times require desperate
measures' ?

I'v been studying alternative medicine for years - Yes, it usually does not work as
well as standard treatments - But sometimes it does work. Even some mainstream
medicine does allow for what is sometimes called 'complimentary medicine'.

Now is not the time for us to close our eyes to any possibility - the conspiracy
theorists on Covid 19, including me, are turning out to be wrong
- This virus may be the most deadly threat the Human race has ever faced!

As of now it does not appear to be quite that bad yet.

Still all mainstream and alternative modalities should be considered.

UV light treatment of blood has been used successfully in the past, and should
be tried again - As should 'Homeopathic medicine' {also considered quackery
by some] - As I read an article I found online covering the Spanish Flu of 1918
- Some homeopaths claimed high cure rates with some of their medicines.

You see the conspiracy I worry about now - Is the suppression of information
caused by calling all alternative medicine 'quackery'
- Maybe some quack medicine of the past might come up with the magic bullet?

I've studied so called quack medicine and quack medicine devices
- I once found an antique quack medicine device for healing with electric current
- Guess what? Modern medicine finally found that running current into some injuries such as fractures, actually accelerates healing
- the quacks were vindicated!
 
AlienView said:
Maybe we should look at any and all possibilities
to stop it
Click to expand...
Except for, of course, the obviously batshit crazy ideas, such as 'injecting disinfectant'.
I know for a fact that being sealed in a chamber containing poisonous gas and high dose radiation will cure me of covid-19.
Unfortunately the side-effect is that it will also cure me of life.
 
Trevp666 said:
Except for, of course, the obviously batshit crazy ideas, such as 'injecting disinfectant'.
I know for a fact that being sealed in a chamber containing poisonous gas and high dose radiation will cure me of covid-19.
Unfortunately the side-effect is that it will also cure me of life.
Click to expand...
See how you are? - Not only do you want a cure, but you also want to live to talk
about it!

Human nature to want it all!

Seriously though - They keep knocking Trump for talking about light'
- As I said UV light treatment of blood was popular many years ago and often worked And 'injecting disinfectant' {not exactly meant to be taken literally}

And yet there are many over the counter herbal supplements with anti-bacterial,
and even some anti-viral properties - and they won't kill you.

It isn't just money that makes mainstream medicine avoid things like herbal
remedies - since the strength of most herbs varies [unless using standardized
extracts] and their effects, especially when mixed with prescription drugs,
might vary - Most regular MDs don't want to mess with them - And you'll
pay extra {at least in the US} for doctors who will also use them.

Bottom line though is in most cases herbals will not hurt you unless grossly abused.

Could you actually 'cure' Covid19 with a some kind of herbal concoction?

Probably not - but you might be able to help your body to fight
- tune the immune system, etc.

Remember this though - If you actually did find a herbal or natural cure,
don't try to sell it - 'They' will do anything it takes to prove it doesn't work

See, when it comes to modern medicine and the drug cartels that control it,
I'm still a skeptical conspiracy nut.
 
Last edited:
"And 'injecting disinfectant' {not exactly meant to be taken literally} "

Exactly. I understood that, what he was saying is there something that could be injected that would act like a bleach. OK, his way of speaking is sometimes difficult to follow, but what I think he was visualising is could there be something that would just flush the virus out of the system rather than a vaccine. Because there may never be a vaccine.

I doubt the 'bleach' approach makes sense, because any thing you could inject that would kill the virus would have to be so strong that it would almost certainly have drastic side effects. I don't see why he shouldn't ask the question though.

I do get bored with the way the world tries so hard to make Trump look stupid, but half the time they only make themselves look stupid. I'm not saying he never says anything stupid. Sam Goldwyn said a fair number of stupid things but he made some flippin' good films.
 
AlienView said:
And yet there are many over the counter herbal supplements ...etc
Click to expand...

Indeed. I think it is oft forgotten that modern medicine owes its existence to those herbal remedies from the past.
A lot of herbal stuff is still used effectively (like the herbal sleeping help I got for my mother and she said 'well, i'll try it', and it knocked her out for the best part of 14 hours!)
Back before modern medicine started getting tested by scientific method, remedies and cures were based on 'lets try it and see', and you can look back through history and see all sorts of batshit crazy ideas that at the time seemed sensible, for one reason or another.
However I like to temper that thought with the fact that you shouldn't just go and try it if it seems like a good idea!
I'm reminded of the Blackadder character ('mumsie' I think it was) who said "Ooooh don't go having ideas....I had a cousin that had the idea of trimming their toe-nails with a scythe.......they cut their foot off!"
And also, if herbal stuff is so good, why do the people in Holland and Barrett always seem so unwell?
I have a friend who shops in there quite a bit. She's a sort of new-agey, hippyish, vegan, health food obsessed person. Absolutely lovely person, but always unwell with something or other.
 
Fauci says no evidence that COVID-19 created in Chinese Lab.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert and touchstone for scientific guidance amid the ongoing pandemic, said Monday there was no solid evidence to suggest the coronavirus wreaking havoc around the globe was manufactured in a Chinese lab.
Fauci, speaking to National Geographic, addressed the theory that has been circulated by both President Donald Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. But he said scientists analyzing the virus’ genetic code have consistently said there is strong evidence the coronavirus jumped to humans from animals in the wild, although it remains unclear how.

“If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats, and what’s out there now is very, very strongly leaning toward this [virus] could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated,” Fauci told the outlet. “A number of very qualified evolutionary biologists have said that everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that it evolved in nature and then jumped species.”

He went on to say any theories the virus “escaped” from a lab were unfounded because even in that circumstance the pathogen would have first been seen in bats in nature based on the virus’ evolution.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fauc...eb0f400c5b60a927781130e?ncid=newsltushpmgnews
 
And at an anti-shutdown rally ...

Ammon Bundy Blames Jews For The Holocaust At Idaho Anti-Lockdown Rally

Anti-government extremist Ammon Bundy, speaking on the steps of the state Capitol building in Boise, Idaho, on Saturday, compared government measures to slow the spread of the coronavirus to the Nazis’ genocide of Jews during World War II.

Bundy, a notorious militia leader who once organized an armed takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge, made the absurd comparison while speaking at an “Idaho Is Open For Business” rally ― one of several anti-lockdown demonstrations held across the country demanding that governors allow businesses to reopen despite the urgent warnings of public health experts.

The Boise rally appears to have been organized, in part, by an anti-vaccination conspiracy group called Health Freedom Idaho, together with the Idaho Freedom Foundation, a powerful far-right libertarian organization in the state with ties to right-wing billionaire Charles Koch.

In a speech at Saturday’s rally, Bundy compared the temporary closure of nonessential businesses in America to the systematic torture and murder of 6 million Jews by the Nazis.

“Just look at the pictures of the Holocaust,” Bundy told the crowd of hundreds, according to a video of the event posted to YouTube. “It always amazes me how you see pictures of men and women stripped completely naked, lined up and facing a mass grave, where they are shooting them in the back of the head and falling in the grave.”

“Now the answer to that is not easy ― but it is this, and I have been there and I know for a fact that this is true,” Bundy continued. “When you have faced so much tyranny in your life, there is a point when you would rather line up naked and get shot in the head. And my friends, why we’re here today right now is to make sure that never happens!”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ammo...eb0371ac5b684fc457a1389?ncid=newsltushpmgnews
 
Cochise said:
I do get bored with the way the world tries so hard to make Trump look stupid, but half the time they only make themselves look stupid. I'm not saying he never says anything stupid. Sam Goldwyn said a fair number of stupid things but he made some flippin' good films.
Click to expand...

Fair enough but let's be honest - the world doesn't have to try hard, he makes a good job of it himself.
 
Trevp666 said:
A lot of herbal stuff is still used effectively (like the herbal sleeping help I got for my mother and she said 'well, i'll try it', and it knocked her out for the best part of 14 hours!)
Click to expand...

Do you remember the name of the product?
 
Tribble said:
Do you remember the name of the product?
Click to expand...
I believe it was Nytol.
Mum had been having weeks and weeks of only sleeping for (at best) a couple of hours, and often not at all. She asked me to get her some sleeping pills and I explained that I couldn't do that, she would have to ask the doctor, but in the meantime "let's try a herbal something" I said, thinking that it would most likely be ineffective but maybe the placebo effect might work.
So the instructions said to take two tablets about an hour before bedtime IIRC. She did so, and when I asked her the following day if they had worked she said that she followed the instructions, took two at about 10pm, started feeling a bit, 'yawny' half an hour later so took to her bed, then didn't wake up until about 930 in the morning when her morning cup of tea was brought in, and she was still really groggy then!
From then on she only took one tablet, and only once every few days.
 
Trevp666 said:
I believe it was Nytol.
Mum had been having weeks and weeks of only sleeping for (at best) a couple of hours, and often not at all. She asked me to get her some sleeping pills and I explained that I couldn't do that, she would have to ask the doctor, but in the meantime "let's try a herbal something" I said, thinking that it would most likely be ineffective but maybe the placebo effect might work.
So the instructions said to take two tablets about an hour before bedtime IIRC. She did so, and when I asked her the following day if they had worked she said that she followed the instructions, took two at about 10pm, started feeling a bit, 'yawny' half an hour later so took to her bed, then didn't wake up until about 930 in the morning when her morning cup of tea was brought in, and she was still really groggy then!
From then on she only took one tablet, and only once every few days.
Click to expand...

Nytol Herbal tablets, I'm guessing. Cheers. Will keep an eye out for that...
 
Trevp666 said:
I believe it was Nytol.
Mum had been having weeks and weeks of only sleeping for (at best) a couple of hours, and often not at all. She asked me to get her some sleeping pills and I explained that I couldn't do that, she would have to ask the doctor, but in the meantime "let's try a herbal something" I said, thinking that it would most likely be ineffective but maybe the placebo effect might work.
So the instructions said to take two tablets about an hour before bedtime IIRC. She did so, and when I asked her the following day if they had worked she said that she followed the instructions, took two at about 10pm, started feeling a bit, 'yawny' half an hour later so took to her bed, then didn't wake up until about 930 in the morning when her morning cup of tea was brought in, and she was still really groggy then!
From then on she only took one tablet, and only once every few days.
Click to expand...

Nytol - It's an antihistamine and yes it can make you drowsy. Diphenhydramine, it's used mostly to treat allergies such as hayfever. It's also an anticholinergic, hence the treatment for insomnia, (and other things too weird to go into), It's hardly a herbal remedy.

edit: It's a pharmacy medication only - which it should be.

edit: Sorry Nytol Herbal - different, but made by the same company. It's just full of Valerian and probably does sod all.

So two different things.
 
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Yes nytol herbal. Valerian indeed. Absolutely (and surprisingly) does not do sod all. Apparently it's been used as a sleep aid for years.
 
EnolaGaia said:
"Coronavirus" is a category or class of viruses that have been known since the 1930s.
Human coronaviruses have been known since the 1960s.
Two earlier epidemic viruses (SARS and MERS) are coronaviruses.
COVID-19 is not *the* coronavirus, but rather the most recently identified human coronavirus.
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Good point my wife a nurse with. She said the same thing. However point being (to repeat on your post Enola) the Covid-19 strain just started to show itself last fall.
 
Naughty_Felid said:
Nytol - It's an antihistamine and yes it can make you drowsy. Diphenhydramine, it's used mostly to treat allergies such as hayfever. It's also an anticholinergic, hence the treatment for insomnia, (and other things too weird to go into), It's hardly a herbal remedy.

edit: It's a pharmacy medication only - which it should be.

edit: Sorry Nytol Herbal - different, but made by the same company. It's just full of Valerian and probably does sod all.

So two different things.
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Melatonin can help, if not a doctor could prescribe a benzodiazepine or Ambient to name a few that produce sedation - sleep. With PTSD I have some rough night and these meds can prove quite helpful if not overdone.
 
Compounds in valerian in herbal form act on the GABA receptors in the brain in a similar way to benzodiazepines. It's fairly potent and pretty effective.
 
Trevp666 said:
And also, if herbal stuff is so good, why do the people in Holland and Barrett always seem so unwell? I have a friend who shops in there quite a bit. She's a sort of new-agey, hippyish, vegan, health food obsessed person. Absolutely lovely person, but always unwell with something or other.
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Vegetarians or vegans. That's why.
 
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