Does Nigerian Juju Exist?
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Fortea Morgana :) PeteByrdie certificated Princess
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DrPaulLee
Justified & Ancient
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He was working for a textiles firm which had an office in Lagos and he was asked to run it for a few years. The company would only allow him to stay for two periods of three years each due to the effect the climate had on Europeans. I was born over there and came to England at 7 months, in May 1972.
Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
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I had a Nigerian friend at uni, who mentioned Juju to me once or twice. To him, it existed.
GingerTabby
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It reminds me of the Caribbean practice of Obeah, which I've heard mentioned by Jamaican ex-pat friends. Obeah's roots are in West Africa so any similarities between the two would not be surprising.
Victory
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Not sure about these days, but 20 years ago or so if you looked in the small ads of The Voice newspaper you'd see a few Juju Man, Obeah Man and Marabout adverts offering their services for all manner of ailments and life issues...in return for a small fee of course.
Here's a page from earlier this year from the BBC Pidgin Language News service
Here's a page from earlier this year from the BBC Pidgin Language News service
maximus otter
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A casual Google reveals that a Samuel Adesujo Ademulegun (not Ademunlegun) joined the Nigerian army as a private in 1942, and eventually attained the rank of brigadier-general in 1966. The same man, perhaps?
Unfortunately, he and his wife were murdered in a military coup in that year.
RWAFF stands for Royal West Africa Frontier Force.
maximus otter
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Brigadier-general is a strange one.
Confusingly, it was not actually a general officer rank; in fact, it wasn't a rank, it was an appointment—and that was abolished in 1921.
Also confusingly, the actual rank of (plain) brigadier was not introduced until 1948—all those wartime brigade commanders were technically temporary brigadiers, an appointment introduced in 1928.
Lord knows what Ademulegun was.
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Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
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Someone with a gun that needed cleaning?
RaM
Shit Happens
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A friend had relatives that ran a business in Malawi, they had a house boy called Timothy,
and very good he was, he looked after them for years, then one day he decided someone
had put a juju on him and he had to go home to die, the thing was his home was a plane
ride away and the accepted practice was for your ex employer to pay for your travel and
roof, his roof would be the corrugated iron used to roof your hut,
They heard from him about 2 years later so it looked like he survived the juju.
They also had a compound were among other things 2 4X4 were kept, they had 2 security
guys there every night then one morning no 4X4's the guards swore that the vehicles had
suddenly took off and flew away they did not believe this but they could not shake them out
of the story.
and very good he was, he looked after them for years, then one day he decided someone
had put a juju on him and he had to go home to die, the thing was his home was a plane
ride away and the accepted practice was for your ex employer to pay for your travel and
roof, his roof would be the corrugated iron used to roof your hut,
They heard from him about 2 years later so it looked like he survived the juju.
They also had a compound were among other things 2 4X4 were kept, they had 2 security
guys there every night then one morning no 4X4's the guards swore that the vehicles had
suddenly took off and flew away they did not believe this but they could not shake them out
of the story.
escargot
Disciple of Marduk
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This question is a staple theme for writers, especially ones involved in administering the British Empire; do we believe the natives' superstitions? If not, what's going on? And if we do, are we still rational and British?
Kipling's The Mark of the Beast is generally believed to be the most brutal example.
Kipling's The Mark of the Beast is generally believed to be the most brutal example.
ramonmercado
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At least they just dug up the skull instead of murdering someone for it.
Five men have been jailed for 12 years each in Nigeria after they were convicted of exhuming a human skull.
They had planned to take it to a traditional doctor who said it was needed for rituals that would make them rich. The men pleaded guilty after being caught with the skull in a bag.
The prosecutor told the court that the men had dug up a body buried three years earlier at a Muslim cemetery in the north-central Niger state.
"They said the herbalist informed and promised all of them that they would share the wealth from the said criminal activity and directed them to look for the human skull," the prosecutor was quoted as saying by the privately owned Daily Punch newspaper.
Security officers had arrested the young men, who are aged between 18 and 28, in early September as they transported the remains to a third party, on the instructions of a traditional doctor.
A court in Minna, the capital of Niger state, declared the men guilty on the charges of criminal conspiracy, trespassing on burial grounds and unlawfully possessing a human skull.
The traditional doctor was not arrested and charged.
Belief in "juju" - sometimes known as voodoo or magic - is fairly widespread in Nigeria, with many combining it with either Christianity or Islam, according to a 2010 report by the Pew Research Centre.
Such beliefs, especially that human body parts and charms can produce money from a clay pot, have led to a recent wave of gruesome murders in Nigeria, often targeting individuals seen as vulnerable, including children, single women and people with disabilities.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-67130857
Five men have been jailed for 12 years each in Nigeria after they were convicted of exhuming a human skull.
They had planned to take it to a traditional doctor who said it was needed for rituals that would make them rich. The men pleaded guilty after being caught with the skull in a bag.
The prosecutor told the court that the men had dug up a body buried three years earlier at a Muslim cemetery in the north-central Niger state.
"They said the herbalist informed and promised all of them that they would share the wealth from the said criminal activity and directed them to look for the human skull," the prosecutor was quoted as saying by the privately owned Daily Punch newspaper.
Security officers had arrested the young men, who are aged between 18 and 28, in early September as they transported the remains to a third party, on the instructions of a traditional doctor.
A court in Minna, the capital of Niger state, declared the men guilty on the charges of criminal conspiracy, trespassing on burial grounds and unlawfully possessing a human skull.
The traditional doctor was not arrested and charged.
Belief in "juju" - sometimes known as voodoo or magic - is fairly widespread in Nigeria, with many combining it with either Christianity or Islam, according to a 2010 report by the Pew Research Centre.
Such beliefs, especially that human body parts and charms can produce money from a clay pot, have led to a recent wave of gruesome murders in Nigeria, often targeting individuals seen as vulnerable, including children, single women and people with disabilities.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-67130857
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skinny
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This 1986 video by Talking Heads in Dave Byrne's True Stories movie features a New Orleans Juju priest called Pops. I had the album for years before I saw the film, and I always enjoyed the song with no clue as to its meaning. It's a real magic rite intended to invoke the demon Legba to assist in the acquisition of wealth and love - the primary goals of the American experiment. It's really a great film.
catseye
Out of focus little thingy
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I've been consuming Catfish videos lately (romance scams). As almost ALL of the scammers seem to be based in Nigeria, I wondered why the general advice isn't given to anyone first 'meeting' someone online who seems too good to be true, to advise your intended love interest that you are an experienced Ju ju practitioner. It might put a few of them off going any further and, of course if they are genuinely a 23 year old Ukranian model interested in a 70 year old pensioner with few teeth, it won't matter to them.
maximus otter
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Mikefule
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Does Nigerian Juju exist? Simplistically, yes, in the same way as Catholicism, or any other belief system exists.
Does it exist in a more meaningful sense? Yes, in that it affects the way that people behave and interact if they believe in it. Juju is a phenomenon that you would need to allow for and deal with if, for example, you employed a large number of people from a traditional Nigerian background. From time to time, there would be an incident in which their shared belief in Juju would be an important factor in managing your workforce.
Does it exist in the sense of actually working approximately as described and believed in by people from that culture? i.e. Is it actual magic that really functions in a practical way. Is there some way of projecting personal power to cause consequences for someone else, at a distance? I would say that there would need to be considerably more than wild stories, anecdotal evidence and hearsay before I would give that idea any credence.
However, if it did "work" as "actual magic" then would it be unique? Out of all the cultures of the world, are the Nigerians the only people to have stumbled across a system of ritual that has real effects? Given the long history of mankind, the broad range of cultures and religious beliefs, and the number of belief systems that include curses, hexes, and so on, it seems unlikely. The best I could say is that in the unlikely event that it is real magic, it is just one approach to operating real magic. For comparison, the English longbow and the shorter bow of certain native American tribes, and the complex bows used in the Olympics are all different practical approaches to using the same basic principles to achieve essentially the same thing
Can Juju be "explained away"? as the nocebo effect, hypnosis, psychosomatic symptoms, hysteria, and manipulation? I think very probably.
Does it work at a distance on someone who can have no knowledge that the "curse" has been issued? I'd say no, otherwise, a few Nigerian experts would by now rule the world. A quick Juju curse on the presidents of the USA, Russia, and China, the leaders of enemy armies... if it worked at a distance in a literal "it's really magic" sense, it would change the face of international politics.
But no, the reports all suggest that it works on people who are from one particular culture, or who have lived alongside it long enough to have absorbed some of its ideas. You have to believe in it, or half believe in it, for it to work on you.
However, the power of the word on the human mind is enormous, and applies across all or most belief systems and cultures.
Before the flight in which Buddy Holly and others died in 1959, Waylon Jennings said, jokingly, to his friend Buddy Holly, "I hope your plane crashes." After the plane crashed, Waylon Jennings struggled to cope with this for many years.
However, Buddy had said to him, "I hope your bus crashes," and the bus did not crash.
A completely rational mind, uncontaminated by the idea of the power of words, would have seen the contrast:
1) Buddy said he hoped the bus crashed but it didn't
2) Waylon said he hoped the plane crashed, and it did
...and seen that there was obviously no causal connection between the words and the event.
Does it exist in a more meaningful sense? Yes, in that it affects the way that people behave and interact if they believe in it. Juju is a phenomenon that you would need to allow for and deal with if, for example, you employed a large number of people from a traditional Nigerian background. From time to time, there would be an incident in which their shared belief in Juju would be an important factor in managing your workforce.
Does it exist in the sense of actually working approximately as described and believed in by people from that culture? i.e. Is it actual magic that really functions in a practical way. Is there some way of projecting personal power to cause consequences for someone else, at a distance? I would say that there would need to be considerably more than wild stories, anecdotal evidence and hearsay before I would give that idea any credence.
However, if it did "work" as "actual magic" then would it be unique? Out of all the cultures of the world, are the Nigerians the only people to have stumbled across a system of ritual that has real effects? Given the long history of mankind, the broad range of cultures and religious beliefs, and the number of belief systems that include curses, hexes, and so on, it seems unlikely. The best I could say is that in the unlikely event that it is real magic, it is just one approach to operating real magic. For comparison, the English longbow and the shorter bow of certain native American tribes, and the complex bows used in the Olympics are all different practical approaches to using the same basic principles to achieve essentially the same thing
Can Juju be "explained away"? as the nocebo effect, hypnosis, psychosomatic symptoms, hysteria, and manipulation? I think very probably.
Does it work at a distance on someone who can have no knowledge that the "curse" has been issued? I'd say no, otherwise, a few Nigerian experts would by now rule the world. A quick Juju curse on the presidents of the USA, Russia, and China, the leaders of enemy armies... if it worked at a distance in a literal "it's really magic" sense, it would change the face of international politics.
But no, the reports all suggest that it works on people who are from one particular culture, or who have lived alongside it long enough to have absorbed some of its ideas. You have to believe in it, or half believe in it, for it to work on you.
However, the power of the word on the human mind is enormous, and applies across all or most belief systems and cultures.
Before the flight in which Buddy Holly and others died in 1959, Waylon Jennings said, jokingly, to his friend Buddy Holly, "I hope your plane crashes." After the plane crashed, Waylon Jennings struggled to cope with this for many years.
However, Buddy had said to him, "I hope your bus crashes," and the bus did not crash.
A completely rational mind, uncontaminated by the idea of the power of words, would have seen the contrast:
1) Buddy said he hoped the bus crashed but it didn't
2) Waylon said he hoped the plane crashed, and it did
...and seen that there was obviously no causal connection between the words and the event.
Aether Blue
Devoted Cultist
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While my knowledge of specifically Nigerian magic is quite poor, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the possibilities of practical magic in general.
Let's suppose that humans are able to apply magical practices to create effects in the real world more profound than just suggestion and intimidation. It need not follow that the magical powers would be as reliable as technology. Indeed, by some definitions, "magic" necessarily involves forces that are fickle or difficult to control. Time after time, in story after story, magic is portrayed as a crapshoot. In the terminology of role-playing games, magical powers require an activation check - usually a very difficult one.
The reasons can vary, both on the situation, and the belief system involved; but can be explained in two basic ways. One, the entities invoked for power are sentient and literally capricious. Two, the techniques required are so demanding that even the most talented and experienced humans never completely master them.
So is magic purely psychosocial after all then? Not necessarily. Following our original assumption that some physical magical effects are possible, those effects could be quite dramatic - when they appear as directed.
In casinos, the house always wins over the long run, and yet, individual people sometimes walk out with fat wallets. The powers that be "On the Other Side" may very well run a mystical lottery, soaking up a surplus of devotion while occasionally delivering a jackpot to some lucky conjurer.
This sort of arrangement explains the motivation for both sides to continue pursuing the magical transaction, while still maintaining the world we (think) we know, where shamans and Vodun Doctors don't (seem to) run everything, and yet tales of functional magic persist.
On the other hand, if magicians really do run the world, how would we muggles know it?
Let's suppose that humans are able to apply magical practices to create effects in the real world more profound than just suggestion and intimidation. It need not follow that the magical powers would be as reliable as technology. Indeed, by some definitions, "magic" necessarily involves forces that are fickle or difficult to control. Time after time, in story after story, magic is portrayed as a crapshoot. In the terminology of role-playing games, magical powers require an activation check - usually a very difficult one.
The reasons can vary, both on the situation, and the belief system involved; but can be explained in two basic ways. One, the entities invoked for power are sentient and literally capricious. Two, the techniques required are so demanding that even the most talented and experienced humans never completely master them.
So is magic purely psychosocial after all then? Not necessarily. Following our original assumption that some physical magical effects are possible, those effects could be quite dramatic - when they appear as directed.
In casinos, the house always wins over the long run, and yet, individual people sometimes walk out with fat wallets. The powers that be "On the Other Side" may very well run a mystical lottery, soaking up a surplus of devotion while occasionally delivering a jackpot to some lucky conjurer.
This sort of arrangement explains the motivation for both sides to continue pursuing the magical transaction, while still maintaining the world we (think) we know, where shamans and Vodun Doctors don't (seem to) run everything, and yet tales of functional magic persist.
On the other hand, if magicians really do run the world, how would we muggles know it?
skinny
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This is the real question the entire Fortean Times board exists for.
I'm of the opinion that there is nobody running the world, per se. There are magic folk about who know things related to their very limited spheres of influence. But in regard to the planet at large, there's nothing in charge. The status quo is chaos. Always has been. Always will be.
Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
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There is a bunch of people who own the world. Whether or not they are 'in charge' is a matter of debate.
Stormkhan
Disturbingly familiar
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There folks who like to think they're in charge. There are also folks who think someone else is in charge. It's comforting - while frustrating - to think that there's no such thing as chaos, random events etc. People might get angry but at least they have someone to blame for their lousy life.