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Dragons: Evidence They Existed

lordmongrove said:
New Zealand is way too cold. It's climate is like Britain. Crocodiles couldn't survive there in winter.
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But, if not a crocodile, wouldn't some other large reptilian have similar problems with the NZ climate?

This 2017 article states "scientific study from the 1980s indicates Australian saltwater crocodiles are occasional summer visitors to New Zealand and probably the cause of ‘taniwha’ stories...
the larger the crocodile the less it would be affected by the cooler climate...size is an important factor in an animal’s thermal relations with its environment. The larger the animal, the lower is its surface-to-bulk ratio and the greater its capacity for heat storage” .

https://theoutdoorphonestore.com/20219/taniwha-mystery-solved-salt-water-crocodiles-visit-nz/
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
But, if not a crocodile, wouldn't some other large reptilian have similar problems with the NZ climate?

This 2017 article states "scientific study from the 1980s indicates Australian saltwater crocodiles are occasional summer visitors to New Zealand and probably the cause of ‘taniwha’ stories...
the larger the crocodile the less it would be affected by the cooler climate...size is an important factor in an animal’s thermal relations with its environment. The larger the animal, the lower is its surface-to-bulk ratio and the greater its capacity for heat storage” .

https://theoutdoorphonestore.com/20219/taniwha-mystery-solved-salt-water-crocodiles-visit-nz/
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Bloody hell, now i've head it all! I would never had credited that. It's like finding a polar bear in Scotland, Big reptiles retain heat better than small ones. It's called gigantothermy but it works better on shorter more rounded bodies. That's my the leatherback turtle can tolerate north European waters. A crocodile is elongate and loses heat more quickly. I'm still sure they couldn't tolerate a New Zealand winter, but if one turned up in a hot summer it may have been enough to trigger a legend. Imagine if you had never seen one before and suddenly a 25 foot monster lunges out of the water and eats somebody infront of you! You may well have solved the mistery, well done! The bunyip of South Australia may have been down to marine seals and sealions swimming hundreds of miles up rivers into fresh water. A leopard seal once swam a thousand miles inland.
 
lordmongrove said:
Bloody hell, now i've head it all! I would never had credited that. It's like finding a polar bear in Scotland, Big reptiles retain heat better than small ones. It's called gigantothermy but it works better on shorter more rounded bodies. That's my the leatherback turtle can tolerate north European waters. A crocodile is elongate and loses heat more quickly. I'm still sure they couldn't tolerate a New Zealand winter, but if one turned up in a hot summer it may have been enough to trigger a legend. Imagine if you had never seen one before and suddenly a 25 foot monster lunges out of the water and eats somebody infront of you! You may well have solved the mistery, well done! The bunyip of South Australia may have been down to marine seals and sealions swimming hundreds of miles up rivers into fresh water. A leopard seal once swam a thousand miles inland.
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Merely applying a little Occam's razor to the story.
I had no idea that salties could occasionally be found in NZ, but the creature in the painting looked rather like a crudely depicted croc, so I did a bit of Googling and found they are extremely rare visitors to these cooler shores. Rare enough for such appearances and attacks in NZ to be regarded as semi-mythical and to have become conflated into the Taniwha legends.
 
This may have already been covered here, but if not:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/dragon-bones-of-santa-maria-e-san-donato

'Dragon Bones' of Santa Maria e San Donato​

Basilica of Santa Maria e San Donato
Venice, Italy

Hanging within this medieval church are the bones of a beast allegedly slain by a fourth-century saint.​


The Basilica of Santa Maria e San Donato dates to the seventh century, back when the islands comprising the Venetian archipelago were a loose association communities seeking refuge from Germanic invasions. The church’s original dedication was only to Santa Maria—”e San Donato” (“and St. Donatus”) was added in 1125 after the remains of the saint and the dragon he killed were stolen from Cephalonia by Venetian Doge Domenico Michiel.

The provenance of the beastly bones prior to the 12th century is lost to history. What is known starts in the 1120s, when Doge Michiel sailed out on a crusade to the Holy Land to assist the beleaguered King of Jerusalem, Baldwin II. Venice’s main objective was to smash the Fatimid Egyptian blockade of the eastern Mediterranean, but seeing that the Byzantines had recently gotten on Venice’s nerves by canceling a valuable trade agreement, Doge Michiel took his time looting Byzantine Greece on his way to meet Baldwin. Among the resulting plunder were the remains of St. Donatus, along with the bones of the dragon.

Though St. Donatus may have existed, the details of his life story are completely legendary. He was supposedly a childhood friend of Julian the Apostate, the last pagan emperor. As the story goes, Julian is eventually responsible for the execution of St. Donatus. But before his death, Donatus is said to have performed many miracles. According to the lore, he raised a woman from the dead, exorcized a demon from a young boy, restored sight to a blind woman, and finally slew the dragon, after it had allegedly poisoned a well in Epirus.


The “dragon bones”—which are likely the bones of a large mammal—now hang behind the altar, accessible but mostly out of sight to anyone who’s not looking for them. None of the informational markers in the church mention the bones. Instead, they point to the church’s other notable treasures, like its two-story brick Byzantine exterior, the 11th-century gold mosaic of the Virgin Mary in the apse, and the vibrant animal floor mosaics (notably one showing two chickens carrying a tied fox) dating to the following century.
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bonez.png
 
MrRING said:
I think it would be cool to know what it was... even if it wasn't a dragon, it might have been an ice age survivor... or just dino bones uncovered at the time.
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I suspect that if they aren't fossilised they are from a large mammal - elephant or whale.
 
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